Gonna Assume That Most People Don't Know What 'coptering' Is?

[Aigloblam]

A lot of you are missing out on the fact that with the removal of glitch-coptering comes a new movement system that's much more consistent, capable, and fluid than what we have right now. We may also have increased run speeds since it's a thing that's been begged for since the ancient days of Warframe's Open Beta.

I don't want Consistant, Capable, or Fluid. I want results, and Coptering gets better results than absolutely anything else in the game. I can take a Rhino with an Arcane Thrak helmet and Hobbled Key, and still outrun Zephyrs through Void Captures. That is results.

 

Coptering hasn't been a Bug for over two years now. Thats how it started, absolutely. But by now its been actively tweaked, and has been able to be removed at every step of the way. It hasn't been, because so many players enjoy it, and so many vets incorporate it into their whole playstyle. The only reason that its even in danger of being removed at this point is that there is enough players around that either A) Don't know how to do it, or B) Think its useless when compared to Directional Melee.

 

[shut]

Coptering hasn't been a Bug for over two years now. Thats how it started, absolutely. But by now its been actively tweaked, and has been able to be removed at every step of the way. It hasn't been, because so many players enjoy it, and so many vets incorporate it into their whole playstyle. The only reason that its even in danger of being removed at this point is that there is enough players around that either A) Don't know how to do it, or B) Think its useless when compared to Directional Melee.

- Coptering hasn't been a bug for a little over one year. Update 13 was when the devs revamped all melee mechanics and intentionally increased the effectiveness of coptering.

- Players don't want it gone because it's "hard" or "useless" (A: it's just muscle memory, and becomes as easy as pressing a button once you're accustomed to it. B: I have never heard anyone say it's useless outside of kneejerk reactions in pre-U15 threads from folks who have never used it. It's undeniably useful.). Players want it gone because it takes no skill to use once you get muscle memory down, and it's unrealistic and immersion-breaking.

Yes, I know, "dood were space ninjas with magic" and all that, but magically flying across maps by swinging a monk spade or a pair of tiny axes (with your legs making pedaling motions in the air at a hundred miles an hour) isn't even believable within the bounds of a universe where magical space ninjas exist. Say what you want, but realism is good to have in games if it doesn't detract from the gameplay experience. I'm 100% down with it being replaced by a skillful parkour system as long as it's fun and it lets us go from point A to point B as reliably as copter+airslash does now.

Edited June 19, 2015 by SortaRandom

[(XBOX)Ehrgeiz X]

I don't want Consistant, Capable, or Fluid.

Stopped reading right there.

[BlutAdler]

Without coptering I'm afraid some of the slower frames would rarely get used except in specialized situations. Like frost for defense.

 

 

if you could use the same frame for every situation in the game whats the point of having so many different ones?

[Loswaith]

I don't want Consistant, Capable, or Fluid. I want results, ....

The point is it is not about what you want nor about I want or what anyone else wants for themselves, it is about what is better for the game on the whole.  

Having coptering as it currently is, looks like a glitch/bug, making the look and feel of the game seem quite poor quality.  There are plenty of ways to actually have coptering and make it look like it is a feature that belongs to the game.

 

 

when You did explore 99999999 same tiles you don't need more exploration , If i want exploration I go for medal hunting , all the tiles is same , even if you add "RNG" to get different map everytime , I just feel like I'm running the same map so I don't even need to check where I'm going , I already did it and doing it again so why re explore something that i know and can do eyes closed?

More the point is why bother playing, if you are going to avoid playing using coptering?  

For each level you complete there is just going to be 100s more much the same as it.

Maybe you want to get drops faster but again once you have them where is the goal to play.  The point of the game is to run around and shoot, stab, explode, melt, hack or many other ways to violently end the lives of the enemies.  Coptering lets you for the most part just avoid all that.

[Aigloblam]

- Coptering hasn't been a bug for a little over one year. Update 13 was when the devs revamped all melee mechanics and intentionally increased the effectiveness of coptering.

- Players don't want it gone because it's "hard" or "useless" (A: it's just muscle memory, and becomes as easy as pressing a button once you're accustomed to it. B: I have never heard anyone say it's useless outside of kneejerk reactions in pre-U15 threads from folks who have never used it. It's undeniably useful.). Players want it gone because it takes no skill to use once you get muscle memory down, and it's unrealistic and immersion-breaking.

Yes, I know, "dood were space ninjas with magic" and all that. Say what you want, but realism is good to have in games if it doesn't detract from the gameplay experience. I'm 100% down with it being replaced by a skillful parkour system as long as it's fun and it lets us go from point A to point B as reliably as copter+airslash does now.

No parkour system will ever be as fast as coptering, period. And if it were, it would also be called into question for the same breaking of immersion.

 

Stopped reading right there.

 

 

The point is it is not about what you want nor about I want or what anyone else wants for themselves, it is about what is better for the game on the whole.  

Having coptering as it currently is, looks like a glitch/bug, making the look and feel of the game seem quite poor quality.  There are plenty of ways to actually have coptering and make it look like it is a feature that belongs to the game.

 

 

More the point is why bother playing, if you are going to avoid playing using coptering?  

For each level you complete there is just going to be 100s more much the same as it.

Maybe you want to get drops faster but again once you have them where is the goal to play.  The point of the game is to run around and shoot, stab, explode, melt, hack or many other ways to violently end the lives of the enemies.  Coptering lets you for the most part just avoid all that.

By all means, make it look however you want, I dont have any problem with how it looks, Changing it to something that looks more interesting would be more than fine with me. Like i said, its the Results i want, not the weird broken animation.

 

Coptering isnt just to avoid things, If that is what someone is using it for, then thats their problem, not mine. It gets me from enemy to enemy faster, over obstacles that are put there specifically to make you find a way to avoid them, and strategically place me in the environment. If i want to just avoid everything, I could always just take a Zephyr and be done with it.

[Aigloblam]

Stopped reading right there.

What, because i'm not playing for fancy graphics? I play for Utility, pure and simple. Im sorry if that offends you.

[(XBOX)Ehrgeiz X]

What, because i'm not playing for fancy graphics? I play for Utility, pure and simple. Im sorry if that offends you.

its not offense. I simply just don't agree with that logic. Why should I waste my time reading your justification when I truly don't care? Or does it offend you that someone didn't take the time to read what you had to say?

[Gr3vi3R]

Lucky me i love both moves and Orthos Prime coptering.

 

Anyway, what do you argue about?

It's gonna be removed, you're arguing about nothing.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[CY13ERPUNK]

The issue is, that it's silly. You should be able to move fast without having to exploit game mechanics.

 

this

 

coptering should have never been faster than sprinting, its inception has corrupted the entire movement system for far too long

 

cant wait to see it gone, almost anything would be better

[MihawkDulacr1]

Could someone enlighten me maybe why people think that coptering is removed? I thought that i have read an official statement that they want to improve on what we have. So who's to say that coptering isnt incorporated in some way or another? Maybe not as flashy as before, but I dont think that they will simply rip it away.

 

And to possibly defend my neutral statement. I do coptering simply to be on par in higher levels, i adapt to what playstyle the group focuses on.

[DoomFruit]

You don't like coptering? Fine. Make it obsolete with a new parkour system. Make us want to do something else. But DO NOT force us away from it. It's one of the core features of Warframe. It also makes light weapons feasible - right now, you can either take your scindo prime for massive damage or your ceramic dagger for massive speed. Remove coptering and you remove yet another cause of variety in builds.

[Aigloblam]

You don't like coptering? Fine. Make it obsolete with a new parkour system. Make us want to do something else. But DO NOT force us away from it. It's one of the core features of Warframe. It also makes light weapons feasible - right now, you can either take your scindo prime for massive damage or your ceramic dagger for massive speed. Remove coptering and you remove yet another cause of variety in builds.

Couldn't agree more.

[PingoBlack]

It's a dumb bug they should have fixed years ago.

 

Or alternatively, add this to tutorial. Make sure new players know you don't move fast by using sprint, but by using jump+melee buttons. Because that makes so much sense everyone can guess it on their own, right?

[Aigloblam]

It's a dumb bug they should have fixed years ago.

 

Or alternatively, add this to tutorial. Make sure new players know you don't move fast by using sprint, but by using jump+melee buttons. Because that makes so much sense everyone can guess it on their own, right?

Im totally fine with that, In fact thats one of the first things i show off when i meet a noob that im trying to recruit to my clan. I amaze them with insane speed, then explain to them exactly how to do it, when to do it, when Not to do it, and all that stuff. Its not something i want to keep secret and hoard for myself, Its part of the knowledge that i, as a Warlord and MR19 player, have a duty to pass on to the newer players. Anyone who does hide the knowledge is deplorable.

[Solandis]

Could someone enlighten me maybe why people think that coptering is removed? I thought that i have read an official statement that they want to improve on what we have. So who's to say that coptering isnt incorporated in some way or another? Maybe not as flashy as before, but I dont think that they will simply rip it away.

 

And to possibly defend my neutral statement. I do coptering simply to be on par in higher levels, i adapt to what playstyle the group focuses on.

Oh, they've said that with the Parkour 2.0 coptering will be gone. ...I think? I'm pretty sure that's what the deal is.

 

In regards to my own personal feelings on it? I think it's dumb.

 

I do think the speed of frames in general should be looked at though. A speed of 1.0 should not feel as slow as it does. Come on.

[(PSN)ToastyFairy01]

I literally don't have an use for melee weapons other than to copter (or a super Skana to hilariously duel). Often times, I don't even equip one if I'm running pubs because standing there to wait at doors or objectives for people that are using slow frames and don't know how to copter is oh so exciting (though I do this anyways and I'll explain exactly why shortly and is normally why I do roll solo).

 

The first time you are in a new tileset, sure, explore, but explore solo. Most of us have seen every tileset an uncountable amount of times. They're all the same at that point. Sure, a hallway connects to a different room or a room has different locked doors, but they are still the same. Productivity is about efficiency and efficiency, in Warframe, is about speed. Getting to C by cutting corners and skipping B, about killing X and Y with as little ammo as possible so we can get that item with a 1% drop chance. Removal of coptering is going to slow us down and ultimately productivity unless some sort of countermeasure is taking (such as increasing the speed of all frames).

 

Many of us see it as an attempt to further impede farming efficiently. While it's going to happen anyways, those of us that reached the level of farming extremely poor drop chance items will never support it

[CephalonShy]

God damn it blut.

[(XBOX)Ehrgeiz X]

Anyone who does hide the knowledge is deplorable.

Now, that? That, I can agree on.

[(XBOX)Ehrgeiz X]

I literally don't have an use for melee weapons other than to copter (or a super Skana to hilariously duel). Often times, I don't even equip one if I'm running pubs because standing there to wait at doors or objectives for people that are using slow frames and don't know how to copter is oh so exciting (though I do this anyways and I'll explain exactly why shortly and is normally why I do roll solo).

The first time you are in a new tileset, sure, explore, but explore solo. Most of us have seen every tileset an uncountable amount of times. They're all the same at that point. Sure, a hallway connects to a different room or a room has different locked doors, but they are still the same. Productivity is about efficiency and efficiency, in Warframe, is about speed. Getting to C by cutting corners and skipping B, about killing X and Y with as little ammo as possible so we can get that item with a 1% drop chance. Removal of coptering is going to slow us down and ultimately productivity unless some sort of countermeasure is taking (such as increasing the speed of all frames).

Many of us see it as an attempt to further impede farming efficiently. While it's going to happen anyways, those of us that reached the level of farming extremely poor drop chance items will never support it

When put that way, I can most certainly sympathize with your stance on coptering. Really though, I suppose I'm optimistic for Parkour 2.0 and the change it brings. For all we know, the new way of doing things could very well end up with a much more efficient and fast way of getting around. It sounds to me like that really what DE is aiming for. They don't want the make the game less fun for us. They want us to enjoy it. From everything I've seen from them since I've started playing, I really do believe they have the individual players' best interests at heart with these changes. So, for what it's worth, coptering can go. If. IF. FAWKIN IF. It brings a new beginning to a better way.

(Also, I tried coptering some more. Definitely a fast way to get around. I can see what all the hype is about. Still, I'm sticking to my guns)

[Racter]

So not looking forward to this. Coptering was the singular thing that initially sold me on this game, and the two friends I started with quit in large part because the game felt enormous and terribly slow. If those little jumps are supposed to replace it, that is outrageously, ridiculously terrible. I don't care what coptering looks like, I don't care what other people think about, it is one of a gradually decreasing number of things about this game I enjoy immensely.

 

Fast, safe, reliable, effective. Those are what I look for in terms of movement. The previews we've been shown so far are none of those things. Especially for someone that often plays a slow frame like myself, this is gonna be a deal breaker. There are only two frames that can, excluding abilities, move even close to fast enough to make me consider not bringing a Tipedo (Loki and Rhino P w/ Vanguard, both with maxed rush and mag lev) and even those two feel like absolute snails comparatively.

 

And that's just for flat ground movement. What about the numerous enormous gaps that exist on many tilesets that you can either cross in .5s with a coptering weapon/ability or spend an extra 10-30s running around the long way? Not like there's a wall conveniently near a canyon you can just hop on and run across, and many of these maps have multiple of these tiles, sometimes often in a row. Zero enjoyment from crawling across that bridge/ zig zagging for 2m across whatever we were "expected" to use to cross.

 

If anything they should have just immediately balanced all melee weapon air slides to one set distance, improvable by speed mods as it currently is. Anyone can use any weapon they want and don't have to be a snail because of it. I don't understand the people that are excited for this. If you don't like, you are fully capable of not only not using, but playing with others that don't use it. Leave the rest of us alone.

 

 

 

When put that way, I can most certainly sympathize with your stance on coptering. Really though, I suppose I'm optimistic for Parkour 2.0 and the change it brings. For all we know, the new way of doing things could very well end up with a much more efficient and fast way of getting around. It sounds to me like that really what DE is aiming for. They don't want the make the game less fun for us. They want us to enjoy it. From everything I've seen from them since I've started playing, I really do believe they have the individual players' best interests at heart with these changes. So, for what it's worth, coptering can go. If. IF. FAWKIN IF. It brings a new beginning to a better way.

(Also, I tried coptering some more. Definitely a fast way to get around. I can see what all the hype is about. Still, I'm sticking to my guns)

 

Our best interest at heart? That's a good joke. Say hello to my friend formabp-every-rotation-c-ever. Even better, orokin cell! See also, infested-instantly-cc-you-forever. Not be confused with Void Bombard that never reloads or runs out of ammo, dog trainer that takes your equipment away, or with Nullfier that instantly got you killed because you happened to be coming into a doorway the same time he was.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Racter0325

[MihawkDulacr1]

 

Oh, they've said that with the Parkour 2.0 coptering will be gone. ...I think? I'm pretty sure that's what the deal is.

 

In regards to my own personal feelings on it? I think it's dumb.

 

I do think the speed of frames in general should be looked at though. A speed of 1.0 should not feel as slow as it does. Come on.

 

oh :o... okay , well it will certainly take a bit to get used to it, but im all up for it.

[Acaelus]

See the core problem with coptering can be summed up pretty easily in my opinion:

 

1. The speed, as a related factor also the distance. The sheer amount of speed and distance you gain from coptering isn't how warframe is intended to be played. The game is supposed to be about a constant, moderate speed, however coptering is a short burst of incredibly high speeds. This leads to one of two situations, either you skip over an entire tile completely without even touching the ground, completely ignoring all of the level design.

The levels should be designed in a way that promotes using mechanics to travel faster through it, but when the fastest "mechanic" in the game is fly over everything in a straight line, that promotes bad level design, which in turn promotes players wanting to skip those levels.

The other scenario is where players are forced to travel through a smaller room with twists and turns and they go from moving way too fast that you literally can't pay attention to what's going on around you, to what is effectively slow-motion in comparison.

 

2. The way everything is executed, literally all of it. What do you need to perform it? Fast, specific melee weapons, terrible, limits your choice of melee weapons if you want to use a "feature" of the game. How do you perform it? Jumping, sliding, then melee attacking, terrible, for something that has such a simple result as moving forward in a straight line faster, it should have an equally simple input without any requirements. The animation? Terrible, it looks like Link doing his barrel rolls sideways with his sword out combined with the Homer Simpson spin. The result? Horrible, an incredibly fast straight-line slingshot effect that ruins all other forms of movement.

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is:

 

This + This = This Which is way worse than This

Edited June 19, 2015 by Acaelus

[CrazyCatLad]

what kind of others? we already roll to get out of infested poison , and the backflip is useless

Backflip is fun to use in the relays or dojo but so impractical to perform in combat.

[BlutAdler]

God damn it blut.

 :)