I Died In Five Minutes On Mars-- Why Warframe's Difficulty Is Absurdly Anti-Fun

[zoboso]

So you go to mid level with unranked frame and weapons and expected to OK.... That was your first problem. Also this should be fixed in Star Chart 2.0 where the DE is going to compress the amount of missions making multiplayer games 9000x easier to find.

 

Overstacking shields and becoming indistructable.

 

Thank you.

[NikolaiLev]

Death squads have always been an annoying gear-check.  From Stalker to G3 to syndicate assassins, they're just not fun to deal with.

 

They're a binary mechanic; either they wipe you out when you're formaing gear or you demolish them with your boltor prime.  There's no instance where they add an interesting, dynamic element to gameplay.

 

If having a death squad called on you meant that, say, 1 or 2 eximuses would spawn in addition to the other enemies in the level throughout the mission, it might be one thing.  But having the huge wave spawn right on top of you is just not fun.

[H3RRD0KT0R]

Those auras going through walls, that's what really bothers me, because depending on the situation you get hit without seeing what hit you or having the chance to avoid it.

[Babellon]

Those auras going through walls, that's what really bothers me, because depending on the situation you get hit without seeing what hit you or having the chance to avoid it.

Actually this I have encountered as well, Personally I think if so many of our skills are going to be modified to LoS standard, then the enemy should be as well. 

Solid objects should be solid, no shooting through, power killing through, CCing through, solid objects are solid.

 

Also, leech eximus, this thing will go  stand in a corner behind a wall and hide, while you lose all your power supply and  when you attack it, somehow its constantly skittering just  out of range of your melee weapon, or  spins and runs  behind every object in its path. I hate leeches lol..

  with 4 eximus to choose from, why do we always get leeches 4 out of 5 times a eximus spawns?

Edited June 21, 2015 by Babellon

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Hah, thats nothing, how about dying in first 30 seconds because first door that opens have 2 lvl35 seekers behind it? now that is "fun".... other than that, warframe is super easy if you ask me. There is only those few enemies that will F you up: Seekers, ballistas, napalms, corrupted bombards and detron crewman.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

Hah, thats nothing, how about dying in first 30 seconds because first door that opens have 2 lvl35 seekers behind it? now that is "fun".... other than that, warframe is super easy if you ask me. There is only those few enemies that will F you up: Seekers, ballistas, napalms, corrupted bombards and detron crewman.

And Napalms are the only one that could be described as fun IMO. Detrons could be if they spawned in smaller numbers.

Edited June 21, 2015 by (PS4)WiiConquered

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

And Napalms are the only one that could be described as fun IMO. Detrons could be if they spawned in smaller numbers.

Im right there with ya. For me they have earned their "danger" status, big heaviest armored enemy in the game(really, i tried it in simulation) but their projectile is clearly visible, flies slowly, doesnt track you and isnt hit-scan. Does have BS AoE though.  Yes detron crewman's spawn in way too often with big numbers.

[Nialisi]

Overstacking shields and becoming indistructable.

 

There are a million ways of solving that, and just about all of them are better than RNG based unavoidable death. You get shot once, your shields completely block the shot, but, oh, guess what? Even though your shields completely stopped the bullet and therefore it never touched you at all, you now start gushing blood everywhere. Pure luck, no skill involved unless you manage to go through the entire mission without getting hit at all (which is very unlikely in a game where most places don't have much cover, if any, and enemies come from all directions in massive amounts).

 

If you look at Grineer on, say, Phobos, they turn every mission into an RNG contest between their bleed status and the amount of health orbs you can pick up. Unless it's an Eviscerator that makes you bleed, in which case you probably die from that one shot. And also, enemies normally only drop health once in a blue moon, so the amount of health you can get back in a mission is more or less finite, and the amount of enemies isn't, unless it's exterminate. This means you absolutely HAVE to have at least one of a few specific things:

 

-Rejuvenation: Guess what, this is RNG too, you can't get it until RNG says so.

-Equilibrium: How many new players have fought freaking Lephantis enough times to get this? I haven't.

-Nekros w/ Desecration: Same as Equilibrium, except worse because it's not just a mod you're being forced to equip.

-Trinity <3: As Nekros, except from Phobos, which is probably easier than Lephantis except for almost every bullet makes you bleed.

-Oberon: Again, forced to use a specific frame all the time = bad

 

Might be a couple I'm not aware of. And Equilibrium may not even be enough by itself.

 

Death squads have always been an annoying gear-check.  From Stalker to G3 to syndicate assassins, they're just not fun to deal with.

 

They're a binary mechanic; either they wipe you out when you're formaing gear or you demolish them with your boltor prime.  There's no instance where they add an interesting, dynamic element to gameplay.

 

If having a death squad called on you meant that, say, 1 or 2 eximuses would spawn in addition to the other enemies in the level throughout the mission, it might be one thing.  But having the huge wave spawn right on top of you is just not fun.

 

And for newbies like me, who don't have awesome gear, it'll pretty much always be the first option, because there isn't enough ammo in the entire level to kill them. Oh, and if it's an exterminate, no, you don't have the option of just extracting. And trying to melee them tends to be suicide most of the time if your gear isn't awesome.

Edited June 21, 2015 by Nialisi

[Babellon]

snip

no cover? what planets are you playing on that you cannot find  a box, rock, or incline/decline element of environment to use as  a bullet shield?

 

Lephantis is supposed to be  hard. Although I have and do solo  him, he's  considered a major boss,<pain in the arse>, depending on who you ask. 

[H3RRD0KT0R]

And Napalms are the only one that could be described as fun IMO. Detrons could be if they spawned in smaller numbers.

 

 

Im right there with ya. For me they have earned their "danger" status, big heaviest armored enemy in the game(really, i tried it in simulation) but their projectile is clearly visible, flies slowly, doesnt track you and isnt hit-scan. Does have BS AoE though.  Yes detron crewman's spawn in way too often with big numbers.

 

The feeling of being a new player excal/mk1braton/lato/skana and facing a Napalm, some people may think about that as an anti-fun moment, but for me it was exactly the opposite...

 

I preferred to die while maneuvering and dodging and tickling the Napalm from time to time with my noob weapons than to die in an endless mission after xx mins, affected by all sort of procs possible, having health stolen, energy stolen, flooded by bullet sponge enemies, knocked down, unable to move, unable to aim, affected by all kind of artificial difficulty mechanics made to ensure I don't one shot everyone in the mission.

[Nialisi]

The feeling of being a new player excal/mk1braton/lato/skana and facing a Napalm, some people may think about that as an anti-fun moment, but for me it was exactly the opposite...

 

I preferred to die while maneuvering and dodging and tickling the Napalm from time to time with my noob weapons than to die in an endless mission after xx mins, affected by all sort of procs possible, having health stolen, energy stolen, flooded by bullet sponge enemies, knocked down, unable to move, unable to aim, affected by all kind of artificial difficulty mechanics made to ensure I don't one shot everyone in the mission.

 

I'm still at least halfway in that Excal/MK1-Braton/Lato/Skana state, (it's actually Mag/Braton/Lato/Orthos, but it's the mods or lack of them that matters :p) and I agree, tho I must say the Napalm's explosions are a bit too big.

[AlphaHorseman]

Although I do agree that enemies do need to be looked at, thankfully newer players wouldn't have that level of death squads after them.

 

Enemies like that though, they do feel somewhat cheap with how they function. Although I haven't looked at the Infested Ancient Eximi yet, some changes to them would be interesting to promote skilled gameplay, things like how enemy mechanics change to make them more of a challenge and less of a near-invulnerability thing would be good.

 

Stuff like the changes proposed in the thread I made below could help benefit new and veteran players, no?:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425117-we-need-better-enemies-not-just-bullet-sponges-and-never-invulnerability-phases/#entry4716839

[H3RRD0KT0R]

Although I do agree that enemies do need to be looked at, thankfully newer players wouldn't have that level of death squads after them.

 

Enemies like that though, they do feel somewhat cheap with how they function. Although I haven't looked at the Infested Ancient Eximi yet, some changes to them would be interesting to promote skilled gameplay, things like how enemy mechanics change to make them more of a challenge and less of a near-invulnerability thing would be good.

 

Stuff like the changes proposed in the thread I made below could help benefit new and veteran players, no?:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425117-we-need-better-enemies-not-just-bullet-sponges-and-never-invulnerability-phases/#entry4716839

 

People asked for more difficulty, people asked for mini-bosses, and DE answered with the Leaders, now called Eximus...

Honestly what I had in mind was something like tougher elite squads spawning over time, beyond the "heavy units" (that become regular at some point) or new enemies in general, not just the same enemies with cheap enhancements.

[AlphaHorseman]

People asked for more difficulty, people asked for mini-bosses, and DE answered with the Leaders, now called Eximus...

Honestly what I had in mind was something like tougher elite squads spawning over time, beyond the "heavy units" (that become regular at some point) or new enemies in general, not just the same enemies with cheap enhancements.

Something like hyena pack units coming in, no? At a higher level of content.

 

Try looking at the thread I linked, it could give more ideas as to solving this issue.

[Grom-84]

That's because new players can't exactly piss off enemy syndicates that much. 

 

Also:

[gif]http://i.imgur.com/iaSznI5.gif[/gif]

This have nothing to do with op detron crewmans, i suffered from them alot trying to play with my mag and mk-1 paris there, and that suffering lasted untill i made a rhino)

[Flustershy]

Nyx also is bad againt death squads MC wont work only disable them for a second....

 

Bolts are useless as always.

 

Chaos wont work either..

 

So yeah i see your problem wrong frame at a wrong time.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

The feeling of being a new player excal/mk1braton/lato/skana and facing a Napalm, some people may think about that as an anti-fun moment, but for me it was exactly the opposite...

 

I preferred to die while maneuvering and dodging and tickling the Napalm from time to time with my noob weapons than to die in an endless mission after xx mins, affected by all sort of procs possible, having health stolen, energy stolen, flooded by bullet sponge enemies, knocked down, unable to move, unable to aim, affected by all kind of artificial difficulty mechanics made to ensure I don't one shot everyone in the mission.

I still get that napalm feeling sometimes, when im doing vault run solo and my biggest puncture damage is 20 through out all weapons and lotus says this "heavy grineer approaching" well F.... As i usually do ODE lvl up something along side grapping nano spores and hopefully corrupted mod, those are words what i dont want to hear, facing lvl 30 napalms while having some  debuff on, no puncture or radiation weapons with me......

[Nialisi]

Although I do agree that enemies do need to be looked at, thankfully newer players wouldn't have that level of death squads after them.

 

I began playing less than 2 weeks ago. I quickly unlocked syndicates and then--get this--I put off doing anything with them for several days before starting, because I couldn't decide who to go with... and still I already hit max hate from one of the two syndicates that hates me.

[AlphaHorseman]

 

 

Although I do agree that enemies do need to be looked at, thankfully newer players wouldn't have that level of death squads after them.

 

Enemies like that though, they do feel somewhat cheap with how they function. Although I haven't looked at the Infested Ancient Eximi yet, some changes to them would be interesting to promote skilled gameplay, things like how enemy mechanics change to make them more of a challenge and less of a near-invulnerability thing would be good.

 

Stuff like the changes proposed in the thread I made below could help benefit new and veteran players, no?:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/425117-we-need-better-enemies-not-just-bullet-sponges-and-never-invulnerability-phases/#entry4716839

Solution above, next time quote the rest and read it.

[Nialisi]

Solution above, next time quote the rest and read it.

 

I did, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the part I quoted. You said a new player wouldn't have had a high level death squad. The rest had nothing to do with that.

[AlphaHorseman]

I did, and it has absolutely nothing to do with the part I quoted. You said a new player wouldn't have had a high level death squad. The rest had nothing to do with that.

The rest actually did. The problems encountered were with their mechanics and HP, and how a newer leveled player wouldn't have ways (or the know how) to deal with that. The linked thread and the rest of my post was about those very mechanics, and addressed it.

[Nialisi]

The rest actually did. The problems encountered were with their mechanics and HP, and how a newer leveled player wouldn't have ways (or the know how) to deal with that. The linked thread and the rest of my post was about those very mechanics, and addressed it.

 

I know, I read it, I liked it, and agree with you on all that. +1'd. But that still doesn't have anything to do with your explicitly stated assumption that a new player currently does not encounter these, which is wrong, whether you feel like admitting it or not.

[AlphaHorseman]

I know, I read it, I liked it, and agree with you on all that. +1'd. But that still doesn't have anything to do with your explicitly stated assumption that a new player currently does not encounter these, which is wrong, whether you feel like admitting it or not.

Because newer players typically don't. Most newer players I've worked with don't experience the Death Squads themselves, sure while I'm there they come for me, but still I can't recall a time where a lower level player didn't get them coming after them.

 

If anything, just raise the requirements for the death squads to come after you, and voila, they won't get them as quickly.

[rockscl]

op

 

well, while i agree in that early planets may be excesivelly hard for new players, i had a real challenge going across venus, there i actually learned about IPS and got a loadout of impact weapons that changed the flow a lot in my favor, theres where i got to feel the difference between using the right damage type or not, after that i had rhino, so the rest of planets where a different kind of challenge, i expect every new planet to be as hard to become as venus, and some of them actually where a new whole challenge, of course, taxied players would lost all of this experience

 

so i partially agree with you

Edited June 22, 2015 by rockscl

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Git gud. Keep at least one strong weapon on you at all times for situations like this. A new play will not have pissed off the Syndicates.