Parkour 2.0 Issue: "gotta Go Fast" Hurts The Game

[Thalahssalyst]

Yes. If his problem is that speed is a too good because it can let you get to their spawn and back in 16 seconds, then it should not be an issue because the bow can one shot the flag carrier in a one second or so, assuming he can actually aim.

So because one weapon is able to stop a big rocket flying around at 10000k/h the speed is not a problem?

Yes, that have sense, if everyone need to use 1 shot weapon to stop a high speed target, i dont see why there is other weapons with different stats in the game, if all u have to use is a one shot weapon, and no fix the high speed problem...

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

So because one weapon is able to stop a big rocket flying around at 10000k/h the speed is not a problem?

Yes.

[Thalahssalyst]

Yes.

Thank you, now al that DE have to do its remove all other weapons because are unable to one shot, or buff all to being able to one shot...

O no, better, they are fixing the existing problem with the speed in parkour 2.0... i forgot that.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Thank you, now al that DE have to do its remove all other weapons because are unable to one shot, or buff all to being able to one shot...

O no, better, they are fixing the existing problem with the speed in parkour 2.0... i forgot that.

or you could get good

[Thalahssalyst]

or you could get good

Nah... I will wait until the big Fix on speed.

[rockscl]

or you could get good

haha, copter and air melee are gone, get over it, bashing other players will not heal your wounded soul

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

haha, copter and air melee are gone, get over it, bashing other players will not heal your wounded soul

Says you.  Also, I am not asking for it to come back. I am asking them to fix the trainwreck of a system we saw in DS55.

[rockscl]

Says you.  Also, I am not asking for it to come back. I am asking them to fix the trainwreck of a system we saw in DS55.

well, you mean like there?

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/481263-how-do-they-fix-parkour-20/#entry5367397

 

yeah no doubt you are asking for improvements there

[Celle-Reveris]

it would be best if we actually get our greasy mits on parkour 2.0 first before we assume anything.

 

*i am sad that i cant SANIC my ! all over the map anymore though D: *

Be civil and rational human beings, and waiting for something before making judgements on it-- on the internet!?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

well, you mean like there?

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/481263-how-do-they-fix-parkour-20/#entry5367397

 

yeah no doubt you are asking for improvements there

Yes. I am not asking for coptering to come back.  I am asking them to fix the horrible Parkour they showed in the stream.  That thread shows my core ideas as to how they can fix it.

 

 

 

Be civil and rational human beings, and waiting for something before making judgements on it-- on the internet!?

We already saw it in the stream.  If we wait to voice our complaints until after it is in the game proper then it will already be too late, if it isn't already.

Edited July 1, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[(NSW)LilVanu]

This would force the player to master two separate movement systems, one for PvE and one for PvP. As I talk about above, insane movement speed has adverse effects in PvE as well, although significantly less so than PvP.

 

Coptering and air melee are both melee based, which limits weapon choice. Air melee killed Super Jump and is making funny looks at Tail Wind, and air melee, coptering, and flip jumps all massively de-value parkour moves that are already in the game. No reason to wall run across this gap when I can clear it by jumping and pressing melee. This will be the same in Parkour 2.0. No reason to fling off this zip line or bunny hop from wall to wall when I could just jump and press melee.

 

Eventually, I hope PvP will be expanded upon enough to actually be considered a part of the game.

 

PvP IS tweaked and changed. In fact I'm pretty sure they already nerfed a bit of movement stuff in PvP already to stop people just coptering at ludicrous speeds to capture the cephalon and then rushing back

 

If a player must adjust to play both then so be it. That's just how it is. Sometimes you can't have your cake and eat it.

You say players must and I quote:

This would force the player to master two separate movement systems, one for PvE and one for PvP. As I talk about above, insane movement speed has adverse effects in PvE as well, although significantly less so than PvP.

but that already exists. Warframe powers are considerably different if we're comparing the same frame in PvP and PvE so players are already adapting to these changes anyway.

 

I trust and believe. that the people who play both PvE and PvP are more than capable of doing this. So to me that doesn't at all seem like an issue.

[Gintoki-Zero]

cookies taste arguably better then veggies out of the bag

[Feallike]

OP do me a favor and remove the part of your OP talking about PVP because no one seems to be focusing on anything other than that part of your post. 

 

 

In response. If PVP based around a system where you get oneshoted if you don't go fast, PVE is based around a system where you can't get killed because your going to fast that the only way the enemy can kill you is if they overswarm you and oneshot you. Then the system is broken. If the speed makes enemies created to suppress you and make you think of a strategy become defensless because you literally dodge their bullets. Their is a problem.

 

IF your speed makes the implementation of another system in this respect Stealth 2.0 rationally IMPOSSIBLE. Then I personally think their is a huge! Problem!

 

PVE suffers more from speed than PVP. PVP is made mediocre by speed demons, but PVE has 40% of its content, its scaling, and missions reduced to wasted content. The DE shouldn't have spent time on their tilsets if we where just going to rocket through them. They shouldn't be designing traps and stealth if where going to speed through the tilsets. 

 

Their is no reason to reduce RNG because we finish missions that aren't Defense, Survival, or Interception so fast that if their was anything made easier in the RNG we would have everything in that rotation in one day. Speed is a much bigger deal than people think it is.

 

Being able to finish a extermination quickly dictates how the DE balances enemies, how they implement content, and how they balance the RNG. Please don't think of it as lightly as where deciding whether we want to have fun or not. This isn't as simple as that.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Feallike

[Jinryusai]

OP do me a favor and remove the part of your OP talking about PVP because no one seems to be focusing on anything other than that part of your post. 

 

 

In response. If PVP based around a system where you get oneshoted if you don't go fast, PVE is based around a system where you can't get killed because your going to fast that the only way the enemy can kill you is if they overswarm you and oneshot you. Then the system is broken. If the speed makes enemies created to suppress you and make you think of a strategy become defensless because you literally dodge their bullets. Their is a problem. - A problem enemies can be equiped/buffed to solve...

 

IF your speed makes the implementation of another system in this respect Stealth 2.0 rationally IMPOSSIBLE. Then I personally think their is a huge! Problem! - No one else but you seems to care about stealth. Perhaps that's a sign. A search on stealth pulls up stealth animations, which are slow.

 

PVE suffers more from speed than PVP. PVP is made mediocre by speed demons, but PVE has 40% of its content, its scaling, and missions reduced to wasted content. The DE shouldn't have spent time on their tilsets if we where just going to rocket through them. They shouldn't be designing traps and stealth if where going to speed through the tilsets.  - In the wonderful world of racing, drivers look at the birds and the bees otop beautiful trees sitting on a breathtaking landscapes while trying to overtake another racer especially during a turn. - It's time pve/p adjusts to speed...

 

Their is no reason to reduce RNG because we finish missions that aren't Defense, Survival, or Interception so fast that if their was anything made easier in the RNG we would have everything in that rotation in one day. Speed is a much bigger deal than people think it is. - As if longer maps aren't a thing...

 

Being able to finish a extermination quickly dictates how the DE balances enemies, how they implement content, and how they balance the RNG. Please don't think of it as lightly as where deciding whether we want to have fun or not. This isn't as simple as that. - It's finished quickly because it's the same crap over and over done since the beginning. It's just one big mindless grind and being slow would make it even more mindnumbing. You don't get rewarded for having fun, you get rewarded for being fast.

Perhaps bonus drop rates for rewards should be tied to how many enemies you kill(To a generous limit) especially stealth kill and killing hard to kill targets starting from the current drop rate moving up the ladder, but only in linear missions, not endless missions. Even going to far as to affect alert rewards and even invasion and normal mission rewards...

[Jinryusai]

Be civil and rational human beings, and waiting for something before making judgements on it-- on the internet!?

Especially In the world where kickstarter exists(Where donators get to judge content(Well, the game itself really) before it's released), you'd expect that idiotic mentality to cease. Ah well :)

 

No wonder there's so much pre order BS these days. Fools with this mindset are the reason why there are 5 different pre order content for each retailer for one bloody game :)

[Jinryusai]

it would be best if we actually get our greasy mits on parkour 2.0 first before we assume anything.

Did you remember to pre order Batman Arkham Knight on PC and get your greasy "mits" on it before you assumed anything?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

cookies taste arguably better then veggies out of the bag

Tomatoes are a vegetable. I would rather eat fresh tomatoes than cookies.

 

 

 

OP do me a favor and remove the part of your OP talking about PVP because no one seems to be focusing on anything other than that part of your post. 

 

 

In response. If PVP based around a system where you get oneshoted if you don't go fast, PVE is based around a system where you can't get killed because your going to fast that the only way the enemy can kill you is if they overswarm you and oneshot you. Then the system is broken. If the speed makes enemies created to suppress you and make you think of a strategy become defensless because you literally dodge their bullets. Their is a problem.

 

IF your speed makes the implementation of another system in this respect Stealth 2.0 rationally IMPOSSIBLE. Then I personally think their is a huge! Problem!

 

PVE suffers more from speed than PVP. PVP is made mediocre by speed demons, but PVE has 40% of its content, its scaling, and missions reduced to wasted content. The DE shouldn't have spent time on their tilsets if we where just going to rocket through them. They shouldn't be designing traps and stealth if where going to speed through the tilsets. 

 

Their is no reason to reduce RNG because we finish missions that aren't Defense, Survival, or Interception so fast that if their was anything made easier in the RNG we would have everything in that rotation in one day. Speed is a much bigger deal than people think it is.

 

Being able to finish a extermination quickly dictates how the DE balances enemies, how they implement content, and how they balance the RNG. Please don't think of it as lightly as where deciding whether we want to have fun or not. This isn't as simple as that.

The game is already to the point where nothing can kill you until later content, speed or no.  Then in later content, you will die without that speed or very specific frames.  Speed only helps.

 

Speed has nothing to do with stealth being crap. Stealth is crap all on it's own.

Edited July 2, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Feallike]

Perhaps bonus drop rates for rewards should be tied to how many enemies you kill(To a generous limit) especially stealth kill and killing hard to kill targets starting from the current drop rate moving up the ladder, but only in linear missions, not endless missions. Even going to far as to affect alert rewards and even invasion and normal mission rewards...

 

Gosh dang you for not putting your response in your actual post! That slight inconvenience forces me to scroll. ;-; (please take this as a joke)

 

1. I honestly can't find a way to fix that problem without purposefully stopping progression alltogether. The lockout system does this to some extent, though this would have to extend to the point of having to kill a certain enemy to progress.

 

2. I am using stealth a generalization of content. I mention stealth because that is the most obvious one that would suffer from speed. We also have multipathing which would be penalized because people would always pick the fastest root and so on. I don't mean just stealth I am trying to create a general ideal of what content I am talking about.

 

3. Wouldn't it be easier and less costly to just adapt speed to the content?

 

4. Longer maps maybe add 30 more seconds to the mission. The isn't significant since most maps are the same size. Maybe if they added much longer tilesets it would be more significant. 

 

5. That's what I was saying. The DE can't make the grind easier because if they did we wouldn't have any content! The speed we take to finish a mission dictates how easy farming can be. If they made farming as easy as people want then we would all be MR 19 in less than a month. Even then we can do this now with Draco.

 

6. I WOULD LOVE THAT!!!! Though we mow down enemies so fast that a survival mission would be way to OP and this would only benefit those farming draco.

 

I think we should give more XP and resource droprate for enemies of higher level.. Though then again that would increase camping.....

Edited July 2, 2015 by Feallike

[Rakshal]

Anyway, to respond to the OP. I don't agree. The fast movement is what makes Warframe somewhat unique for a PvE and somewhat for a PvP game. I would be fine if they normalized air attacks and coptering and kept in wall sling shots as the wall sling shots take much more time and skill to master, especially chaining them. Speed makes the grind much less noticeable as you are spending much less time on a certain tileset (unless of course it is an endless mission). As for PvP, you can use speed to your advantage as well. If you hear that the Cephalon has been taken then you go and take theirs so they can't capture it. This has been a strategy in many PvP games, even in ones that have slow speeds.

Edited July 2, 2015 by (PS4)IIIDevoidIII

[Feallike]

Anyway, to respond to the OP. I don't agree. The fast movement is what makes Warframe somewhat unique for a PvE and somewhat for a PvP game. I would be fine if they normalized air attacks and coptering and kept in wall sling shots as the wall sling shots take much more time and skill to master, especially chaining them. Speed makes the grind much less noticeable as you are spending much less time on a certain tileset (unless of course it is an endless mission). As for PvP, you can use speed to your advantage as well. If you hear that the Cephalon has been taken then you go and take theirs so they can't capture it. This has been a strategy in many PvP games, even in ones that have slow speeds.

 

I agree that the speed is fun and makes the grinding less... absolutely atrocious. Though I want DE to instead of focusing on making everything fast to keep the speed of Parkour 2.0 and reduce grind. It makes the game slower but in response their is less grind so it takes less missions to get the item.

 

I also agree that I like the fact that in PVP you can quickly get to the other side of the map to defend. Though it gets so ridiculous in the current system that you can't even aim at someone who is coptering because they fly past your screen and you can't get your cursor on them before they are to far away to hit.

 

I don't want it to be sluggish, though I think they should focus on having it compatible with the tile-sets, smooth and easy to control, fun, and based on skill. If they make it sonic speed, I hope their is a decent skill wall that forces most of the playerbase to go slow, and allows vets to go decently fast.

[Jinryusai]

Gosh dang you for not putting your response in your actual post! That slight inconvenience forces me to scroll. ;-; (please take this as a joke)

 

1. I honestly can't find a way to fix that problem without purposefully stopping progression alltogether. The lockout system does this to some extent, though this would have to extend to the point of having to kill a certain enemy to progress. - All you need a speed nullifier or speed bump(trap).  :) On the other hand, anti speed enemies can bea thing in sensitive areas or in senstive groups of enemies that somehow make the player stop to think or deal with them.

 

2. I am using stealth a generalization of content. I mention stealth because that is the most obvious one that would suffer from speed. We also have multipathing which would be penalized because people would always pick the fastest root and so on. I don't mean just stealth I am trying to create a general ideal of what content I am talking about. - Here's the thing. Most people seem to love speed. Dev team wants players to have fun. If you take away speed, you could take away their fun. Read rest below...

 

3. Wouldn't it be easier and less costly to just adapt speed to the content? - Yes, it would be that easy to ignore player wishes and do what they want and take the easy way out, but answer this, do ye always want them to go down this route when the going gets tough especially with a backlash? And besides, if things stay as is, the game gets boring, there has to be changes for the better. Gotta add a whole new dimension to the game, something to keep players happy. You can adapt speed to content, but the content is going to change anyway, might as well start with speed. 

 

4. Longer maps maybe add 30 more seconds to the mission. The isn't significant since most maps are the same size. Maybe if they added much longer tilesets it would be more significant. - Meant this

 

5. That's what I was saying. The DE can't make the grind easier because if they did we wouldn't have any content! The speed we take to finish a mission dictates how easy farming can be. If they made farming as easy as people want then we would all be MR 19 in less than a month. Even then we can do this now with Draco. - Well, that is a standstill mission anyway. If they made adjudtments to counter speed, perhaps there maybe no worry here. All points above can rememdy this. It's either they keep things slow and reduce grind or make things fast and keep things as is with counterspeed units/measures.

 

6. I WOULD LOVE THAT!!!! Though we mow down enemies so fast that a survival mission would be way to OP and this would only benefit those farming draco. - Well, it's not for endless missions, anyway. Exclusive to run n gun point A to B to C missions. Endless on the other hand could get a different feature.

 

I think we should give more XP and resource droprate for enemies of higher level.. Though then again that would increase camping. - Considering run n gun missions give crap xp and materials, camping ain't all that bad.

Gosh dang you for not putting your response in your actual post! That slight inconvenience forces me to scroll. ;-; (please take this as a joke)

 

1. I honestly can't find a way to fix that problem without purposefully stopping progression alltogether. The lockout system does this to some extent, though this would have to extend to the point of having to kill a certain enemy to progress. - All you need a speed nullifier or speed bump(trap).  :) On the other hand, anti speed enemies can bea thing in sensitive areas or in senstive groups of enemies that somehow make the player stop to think or deal with them.

 

2. I am using stealth a generalization of content. I mention stealth because that is the most obvious one that would suffer from speed. We also have multipathing which would be penalized because people would always pick the fastest root and so on. I don't mean just stealth I am trying to create a general ideal of what content I am talking about. - Here's the thing. Most people seem to love speed. Dev team wants players to have fun. If you take away speed, you could take away their fun. Read rest below...

 

3. Wouldn't it be easier and less costly to just adapt speed to the content? - Yes, it would be that easy to ignore player wishes and do what they want and take the easy way out, but answer this, do ye always want them to go down this route when the going gets tough especially with a backlash? And besides, if things stay as is, the gae gets boring, there has to be changes for the better. goota add a whole new dimension to the game, something to keep players happy. You can adapt speed to content, but the content is going to change anyway, might as well start with speed. 

 

4. Longer maps maybe add 30 more seconds to the mission. The isn't significant since most maps are the same size. Maybe if they added much longer tilesets it would be more significant. - Meant this

 

5. That's what I was saying. The DE can't make the grind easier because if they did we wouldn't have any content! The speed we take to finish a mission dictates how easy farming can be. If they made farming as easy as people want then we would all be MR 19 in less than a month. Even then we can do this now with Draco. - Well, that is a standstill mission anyway. If they made adjudtments to counter speed, perhaps there maybe no worry here. All points above can rememdy this. It's either they keep things slow and reduce grind or make things fast and keep things as is with counterspeed units/measures. It's all a lot of work.

 

6. I WOULD LOVE THAT!!!! Though we mow down enemies so fast that a survival mission would be way to OP and this would only benefit those farming draco. - Well, it's not for endless missions, anyway. Exclusive to run n gun point A to B to C missions. Endless on the other hand could get a different feature.

 

I think we should give more XP and resource droprate for enemies of higher level.. Though then again that would increase camping. - Considering run n gun missions give crap xp and materials, camping ain't all that bad.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Jinryusai

[(PSN)Killmoves37]

 

"I don't care" isn't an argument. You're not the only human being in the universe, or these forums wouldn't even exist.

 

Excalibur's Slash Dash, Rhino's Charge, Volt's Speed, Loki & Ash's Teleports, and Valkyr's Rip Line are all designed to make you more mobile as well; I just chose to use Tail Wind as an example because it's the best. That's over 30% of the total warframe roster being hurt by directional air melee.

 

Directional air melee is slaughtering mobility powers one by one. Rip Line is the only mobility skill from above that I would say is completely useless, because directional air melee is straight up faster, and directional air melee already killed Super Jump as previously stated.

 

Taken to its extreme, this would mean having two entirely separate movement systems for PvP and PvE. I think that the main issue with this is that it would distance PvP even further from PvE. If they keep distancing themselves from each other, PvP eventually won't even feel like we're playing Warframe anymore.

 

Then again, doesn't it already feel like an entirely different game? Having two separate movement systems could still work in theory, despite how awkward it would seem.

 

 

You're totally right that I'm not the only person in the universe. However, neither are you. What makes your cries for Zephyr and PvP more valid than my disdain for both? Absolutely nothing. Why should your 1 frame benefit at the cost of the rest? Even with the frames you suggested, frames that would be "hurt" by a faster speed are still the minority. 

Mobility skills don't need a place anymore. With the current loot tables the way they are, you need to get through missions quick if you ever want to get what you want. Running missions at a snails pace will only leave you bored out of your mind. I think it's a much better if all frames have access to high speeds, even if only through directional melee or coptering. The alternative is half of the frames getting left in the dust by the others during missions. 

And this game is not about PvP. It literally can't be seen any other way. The day PvP balance becomes more important the PvE balance is the day I move on to another game. There are much more expansive games focused on competition, and none of them are named Warframe. If I want PvP, I go play a game built from the ground up for it, not one where it's stuck onto the side of the main game with a thumbtack. 

[Jinryusai]

I don't want it to be sluggish, though I think they should focus on having it compatible with the tile-sets, smooth and easy to control, fun, and based on skill. If they make it sonic speed, I hope their is a decent skill wall that forces most of the playerbase to go slow, and allows vets to go decently fast.

It's actually time tilesets get changed and new ones added. So forget having parkour speed adjust to them.

 

Oh and modifying grind/drop rates might be more work than adjusting content to speed.

[FelisImpurrator]

*snip*

Everything you have been saying on this entire page. Just yes. Take the +1.

 

If Parkour 2.0 A) increases the 'regular' speed of gameplay to be bearable, and not an endless slog through molasses; and B) also removes our ability to blaze through nearly any given mission at the speed of light annihilating everything in seconds - in other words, striking a balance between the current copter speed (SUPER SANIC FOREVER) and current no-copter speed (ridiculously plodding unless you throw on every mobility mod in the game on a Loki Prime, or run Volt) - then maybe they can do something about balancing the grind to actually match the rate of completion.

[ApoMaTu3aTop]

Currently gunplay in Conclave is impossible because of coptering and the such. I hate to be the one to say it but the pace needs to be toned down few notches. Shooting guns feels slugish in comparison to Kogakes kcking you in the face from all directions.