Eliminating The Copter - Bad Or Good?

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

https://twitter.com/sj_sinclair/status/620749603336368128

Should I just screen shot the fraggin room I am talking about so you will stop spamming these at me?

[(PSN)Dan_Aria]

Should I just screen shot the fraggin room I am talking about so you will stop spamming these at me?

To be fair, if u look back at the 4 pages of this thread no one has SPAMMED links at you. Only 2 links were posted while quoting you, one by me, asking if one of the vines would correspond to the vertical movement you mentioned, to which you answered "no, it doesn't". Then, a second person posted a different Vine where the height goes a bit above.

And that's about it. I don't see where u're coming from so defensively.

And yes, a screenshot would be useful for people to wonder how Parkour 2.0 would get us to that specific place. Since we're playing the assumption game in this thread.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

To be fair, if u look back at the 4 pages of this thread no one has SPAMMED links at you. Only 2 links were posted while quoting you, one by me, asking if one of the vines would correspond to the vertical movement you mentioned, to which you answered "no, it doesn't". Then, a second person posted a different Vine where the height goes a bit above.

And that's about it. I don't see where u're coming from so defensively.

And yes, a screenshot would be useful for people to wonder how Parkour 2.0 would get us to that specific place. Since we're playing the assumption game in this thread.

Here.  If he can double jump or bullet jump from point A to Point B without touching the white structure in the middle of the room, then I will be sold on the bullet jump.

 

[God_is_a_Cat_Girl]

I think it's good because of how Parkour 2.0 will implement better mobility options (better comparing to non copter already existing options).

 

One of the reasons why I think it's good is because I stop being forced to bring a melee weapon to have access to fast mobility options, in Parkour 2.0, if I don't have a melee weapon I can still bullet jump and double jump, better yet, I'm not forced to choose specific weapons if I want to "go faster", which I find great, since I stop choosing weapons based on "I can copter better with this" and more based on "I like this weapon", "this weapon is actually good" and "this weapon offers me good options against the faction I'm up against".

Air melee might still have some influence, but the base mobility move set won't be as based on the weapon to "go fast" as it is right now.

[(PSN)Dan_Aria]

Here.  If he can double jump or bullet jump from point A to Point B without touching the white structure in the middle of the room, then I will be sold on the bullet jump.

Oh I see now the height you were mentioning, for some reason I forgot about that room.

Well we'll have to wait and see/wait for a new vine showing any more improvement done to the system, as it is right now it's still a work in progress.

However it does say "direction you're facing changes the bullejump power" so maybe if u aim more upwards it might go higher?

I don't know. STEVE! POST MORE VINES! NAO!! <3 TY.

[Gelkor]

Here. If he can double jump or bullet jump from point A to Point B without touching the white structure in the middle of the room, then I will be sold on the bullet jump.

Considering that most recent one I linked is a farther vertical distance than your image, and over twice the vertical height of the original link you complained about, I assumed you'd be satisfied, my bad.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Oh I see now the height you were mentioning, for some reason I forgot about that room.

Well we'll have to wait and see/wait for a new vine showing any more improvement done to the system, as it is right now it's still a work in progress.

However it does say "direction you're facing changes the bullejump power" so maybe if u aim more upwards it might go higher?

I don't know. STEVE! POST MORE VINES! NAO!! <3 TY.

That's probably why I was needlessly snippy earlier. I thought the room I was talking about was obvious and that you were just trying to rile things up.

 

Considering that most recent one I linked is a farther vertical distance than your image, and over twice the vertical height of the original link you complained about, I assumed you'd be satisfied, my bad.

I don't think it is actually. I watched it multiple times, and it is hard to tell.  However, I think he covered less distance.  However, if they show they can make the jump in my image then I am a happy camper.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

I'll go with bad. It'd be cool to combo with the new movement options.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I'll go with bad. It'd be cool to combo with the new movement options.

 

Or completely ruin all of them by de-valuing them into worthlessness.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Or completely ruin all of them by de-valuing them into worthlessness.

Coptering + wall sticking would have been amazing.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Coptering + wall sticking would have been amazing.

 

Directional air melee still existing after the devs put so much work into bullet jumps? That seems significantly less amazing.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Directional air melee still existing after the devs put so much work into bullet jumps? That seems significantly less amazing.

I'm so disenfranchised by this fandom.

 

"Man, I think this could be easily improved."

"But they work so hard, so no input, thanks."

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I'm so disenfranchised by this fandom.

 

"Man, I think this could be easily improved."

"But they work so hard, so no input, thanks."

You get yes-men that praise those in power no matter what no matter where you go. It's not exclusive to the Warframe community.

[(PSN)Dan_Aria]

That's probably why I was needlessly snippy earlier. I thought the room I was talking about was obvious and that you were just trying to rile things up.

XD no no it was actually me, I completely forgot about the existence of that one specific room and the need to jump so high (because EFF going upstairs)

Honestly I believe it might be able to get up there, however, I cant say for sure.

 

Directional air melee still existing after the devs put so much work into bullet jumps? That seems significantly less amazing.

To be fair directional melee could be kept for Melee-stance purposes, tweaked as to be used mainly as a higher reach for melee attacks and not as mobility tool.

We see a lot of Parkouring and how gunplay can be combo'd with it but so far we don't have anything about how melee plays out with an entire overhaul to our maneuvering system. (which is removing the best ways u can close the gaps between you and your enemies in melee = copter/air melee. As much as I dislike how broken and glitchy coptering is, it is a gap closer, I'll give it that.)

IMHO I think it would be amazing if they could make a different set of maneuvers for when in melee-stance and one for Gunplay.

Edited July 15, 2015 by (PS4)Dan_Aria

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

You get yes-men that praise those in power no matter what no matter where you go. It's not exclusive to the Warframe community.

Meh, maybe I'm better at finding good communities for other games. *shrug*

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

I'm so disenfranchised by this fandom.

 

"Man, I think this could be easily improved."

"But they work so hard, so no input, thanks."

 

The point is that coptering and directional air melee would de-value parkour 2.0 to the point of worthlessness just as they're doing now with parkour 1.0. Why run along a wall to cross this gap when directional air melee is in the game? Why climb up to reach a high point when I can jump and press melee? Why try to do elaborate parkour moves to build up momentum when I can clear a room with a single copter?

 

This also doesn't address the problem that coptering and air melee severely limit melee weapon choice. How many people exclusively use the Tipedo when they would much prefer to fight enemies with a Jat Kittag?

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

The point is that coptering and directional air melee would de-value parkour 2.0 to the point of worthlessness just as they're doing now with parkour 1.0. Why run along a wall to cross this gap when directional air melee is in the game? Why climb up to reach a high point when I can jump and press melee? Why try to do elaborate parkour moves to build up momentum when I can clear a room with a single copter?

 

This also doesn't address the problem that coptering and air melee severely limit melee weapon choice. How many people exclusively use the Tipedo when they would much prefer to fight enemies with a Jat Kittag?

Well, one, it'd be cool.

 

And two, "why do people play frost when nova is faster?"

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Meh, maybe I'm better at finding good communities for other games. *shrug*

Typically it happens on official forums. The Gearbox forums, for example, where just as bad or worse.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Typically it happens on official forums. The Gearbox forums, for example, where just as bad or worse.

Yeah. Have you been on the Pahtfinder forums? Ugh. :p

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Yeah. Have you been on the Pahtfinder forums? Ugh. :p

No, I was on the Borderlands ones.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

Well, one, it'd be cool.

 

And be detrimental to gameplay.

 

To be fair directional melee could be kept for Melee-stance purposes, tweaked as to be used mainly as a higher reach for melee attacks and not as mobility tool.

 

That's another thing; directional air melee completely fails at what it was intended for, hitting airborne targets with melee weapons, because the hitbox on the attack is tiny, and it sends you too far. You will most often miss your target and fly a massive distance in the opposite direction, making it more difficult to try again. Directional air melee is far better at being a nerfed Tail Wind than it is at its intended purpose. It could stay in the game only if it was changed to fix this problem and no longer be a mobility tool.

Edited July 15, 2015 by 4G3NT_0R4NG3

[(PSN)Dan_Aria]

Well, one, it'd be cool.

 

And two, "why do people play frost when nova is faster?"

Ehh.. I'm assuming your #1 is regarding keeping the absurd copter momentum WITH Parkour 2.0? I disagree, Mr. Orange up there makes a valid point on how it would de-value the mechanics of P2.0 and how it gets people to use specific melee weapons just for that. On top of that Coptering is a glitch, the momentum can easily get you stuck for a couple of seconds against a wall or environment till it stops, the speed and the way u get propelled forward look way off and unfinished (and it is unfinished).

 

There is only one way I'd like coptering being kept in the game: If it was tweaked and toned down with the absurd momentum some weapons got, also if it were made more controlable and smoother with an animation that made it actually look intended

As for your #2 point, I'm assuming you're referring to Mr. Orange's reference to "players use Tipedo because it's the best way to move and keep up with the party whereas they'd prefer to use a Jat Kittag for mechanic/gameplay/damage/whatever"? You are literally comparing 2 warframes with extremely different mechanics, abilities, stats and usabilities to MELEE WEAPONS that are only different in stats and movesets. That makes no sense whatsoever.

People use Frost because of what he has to offer for the party, people use Nova because of what she has to offer for the Party.

People use the Tipedo because they HAVE to use an OP-Coptering-glitch-momentum weapon to keep up with rushing parties.

People don't use the Jat kittag because it can't keep up just as well. People use the Jat kittag when they don't need that momentum going and wont get called out by their party rushing ahead.

Let alone the fact that people want to go fast if only a few weapons can make u move fast the rest of the weapons are completely ignored.

Et cetera.

Edited July 15, 2015 by (PS4)Dan_Aria

[(PSN)Dan_Aria]

That's another thing; directional air melee completely fails at what it was intended for, hitting airborne targets with melee weapons, because the hitbox on the attack is tiny, and it sends you too far. You will most often miss your target and fly a massive distance in the opposite direction, making it more difficult to try again. Directional air melee is far better at being a nerfed Tail Wind than it is at its intended purpose. It could stay in the game only if it was changed to fix this problem and no longer be a mobility tool.

Well I did say it needed to be tweaked and yes, it completely fails for what it's intended for, the hitboxes are often so messed up u're just better off gunning stuff down, I agree with you on that.

Still, I'd really like some changes in melee maneuvering but oh well.. maybe for Melee 3.0?

Edited July 15, 2015 by (PS4)Dan_Aria

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

There is only one way I'd like coptering being kept in the game: If it was tweaked and toned down with the absurd momentum some weapons got, also if it were made more controlable and smoother with an animation that made it actually look intended.

People use Frost because of what he has to offer for the party, people use Nova because of what she has to offer for the Party.

People use the Tipedo because they HAVE to use an OP-Coptering-glitch-momentum weapon to keep up with rushing parties.

People don't use the Jat kittag because it can't keep up just as well. People use the Jat kittag when they don't need that momentum going and wont get called out by their party rushing ahead.

Let alone the fact that people want to go fast if only a few weapons can make u move fast the rest of the weapons are completely ignored.

Et cetera.

Yeah, if it wasn't being removed, maybe someone could fix it. Who would have thunk?

 

As for the frames, that decision is on the players. Obviously the decision is less important with the changes to movement, but having another option for movement is a good thing. It's like what you said (because you weren't disagreeing the first place), "what does this bring to the party?" "Am I the fast guy carrying energy, or am I ragdolling enemies."

 

Of course, your idea is that the players should not be given the choice. With the same logic applied to frames, we all should just let DE decide what frames we use...oh wait...

[Gelkor]

I don't think it is actually. I watched it multiple times, and it is hard to tell.  However, I think he covered less distance.  However, if they show they can make the jump in my image then I am a happy camper.

 

First off: that Grineer Galleon hangar tile is really hard to find, 15 runs later...

 

What you want to see:

 

 

Setting the waypoint:

 

 

Measuring the jump distance:

 

 

Comes out to be about 13 meters diagonal, and 10 meters straight vertical (when standing under it).

 

What Steve did:

 

 

 

Setting the waypoint:

 

 

Measuring the jump, from the halfway point on the lowest ramp:

 

 

Comes out to be about 20 meters diagonal, and 10 meters straight vertical (when standing under it).

 

So they are actually identical heights (I was incorrect that it was a greater vertical distance, I guess that also says something about level design), the only difference being the horizontal distance covered in Steve's video to make it over the machinery in the way.

 

In the end both movements are very possible with both movement 2.0 and the current directional directional melee, however I will admit that directional melee is faster (at least with a Tonbo and Mirage, in retrospect I forgot about Mirage's increased maneuver speed passive, and other melee weapons have less momentum on directional melee).

 

Video comparison:

 

Edited July 15, 2015 by Gelkor