Take Scorpion Out Of Solo

[Net56]

I don't want to see the grineer scorpion taken out of the game completely since it is an interesting enemy. I just want it out of solo. There no one to save you and you can't save yourself from the grab. You can't attack, you can't dodge the grapple, and none of your skills work so if they drag you into a mob you just die. Stacked with commanders and rollers, any particularly large wave of grineer just rolls over you since you're under the effect of too many disables to fight back. Just take this one enemy out of solo play.

[Namacyst]

God forbid to die or lose a map once in a while...

[MJ12]

God forbid to die or lose a map once in a while...

 

Let's try an experiment, Namacyst.

 

Every mission you play, there is a 10% chance that you die for no reason whatsoever at a random point in the mission. Will this be fun?

 

Because this is the exact scenario that the OP is pointing out multiple Scorpions are right now. Why do you so love awful game mechanics?

[crow-k]

Except 10% random death =/= failure to kill a mob. Thats a failure. Not random chance. 

[Namacyst]

Let's try an experiment, Namacyst.

 

Every mission you play, there is a 10% chance that you die for no reason whatsoever at a random point in the mission. Will this be fun?

 

Because this is the exact scenario that the OP is pointing out multiple Scorpions are right now. Why do you so love awful game mechanics?

Because awful game mechanics love me ^^ Last time i died was...was... i really don't know because i never die.

 

Played alot of Solo Grineer Boss runs today to get some Alloy Plates and Gallium and never died. Sure, i was ambushed on occasion by 3 rollers, 2 SM Pirates and a Heavy with party commando... did not die. Was in a big room with alot of SM Pirates and other stuff.. did not die. CC menchanics on Enemys annoy me alot... but since i do not die i can live with it. Acquired taste so to speak.

 

I personally welcome any new additions of difficulty.. as bad as the mechanics of that difficulty may be because Warframe is even on Pluto really not that hard.

[MJ12]

Except 10% random death =/= failure to kill a mob. Thats a failure. Not random chance. 

 

Actually it pretty much is, because Scorpions can spawn in a way where it's basically impossible to kill enough of them before you get chain-stunned and immediately killed. Again, random chance.

[Kiteless]

There's a difference between actual fair difficulty, and arbitrary pounding. Good game design punishes you for bad decisions. Bad game design just punishes you.

[MJ12]

There's a difference between actual fair difficulty, and arbitrary pounding. Good game design punishes you for bad decisions. Bad game design just punishes you.

 

Basically this. Namacyst really doesn't seem to get 'good' difficulty and 'bad' difficulty, for him difficulty is just an end unto itself. Which is incredibly weird as an attitude, did nobody but me play the 80s-90s games designed to frustrate you into paying money for cheat codes or walkthroughs on the hint line? There's a reason those games died out as concepts.

 

Good difficulty is the stuff that keeps the game from getting boring. Bad difficulty just makes it boring in a different way. Difficulty is an ends to a means, that means being 'greater player engagement', and given that, agency removal mechanics (especially sustained agency removal mechanics-i.e. stunlock) are basically bad difficulty by default. Thus they should be given a very light touch at best.

 

So far, we really haven't had that. And that's funny because DE's previous games basically had no staggers or stunlocks whatsoever. Not even single stunning enemies.

[aiMute]

At least let us shoot the $#*(@ while being pulled to stop pulling, or make it so that if you are being pulled by 2 of those you just get torn into 2 halves, saves the time.

p.s. stomping moa's are fine because you can evade both moa (run away from it, its the thing you do when you see 2 or more yellow moas) and its stomp (jump over it), scorpion is "bad news everyone". Rollers are annoying but manageable since you get stunlocked long enough when 4+ attack you, with 3 you still have a chance to get away with your shields low, but not depleted. Also they are melee, so you can run away and shoot.

 

edit: difficulty is something you can overcome with skill, unavoidable surprise buttsecks isnt.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Vesper11

[Venarge]

Ok so take out every single challenging enemy that could kill you/knock you/stun you.

Rollers have to go since they are so evil, the scorpions have to go as well since they could kill you too....

[Tetsmeha]

Grineer scorpion should still allow you to shoot while being dragged like when you get downed.

[Jackbnimble]

Ok so take out every single challenging enemy that could kill you/knock you/stun you.

Rollers have to go since they are so evil, the scorpions have to go as well since they could kill you too....

 

I'm not in a position to comment on scorpions as I haven't fought them yet, but as for rollers...

 

I can count the number of times rollers have in one way or another caused my death on one hand not using all my fingers. They do jack for damage, and unless you get really unlucky with their stagger effect or just do something dumb they aren't going to kill you.

 

I CAN'T count the number of times they have pissed me the *%$! OFF because of how annoying they are. They aren't challenging because of the above. However they usually take longer to kill for me at this point then any other grinner enemies short of bosses, also because of their stagger, you almost always have to focus fire them before anything else. No other enemy causes me as much frustration in any of the factions.

 

To add insult to injury this super annoying MOB isn't some cool robot or bad &#! marine, etc. No. It is a 2 foot diameter white ball that attacks by jumping at you. It doesn't even look neat. Near as I can tell it's entire existence is just to troll the player base.

[TinyLesbianRobot]

I don't know what to tell you, so I will interpret your words for everyone else.

 

Waaa

Who pissed in your coffee this morning?

[crow-k]

I think maybe if we removed bullets and sharp objects that we could really enjoy this game.

[Code_Grey]

Maybe when the difficulty slider is introduced, there'll be a Namacyst difficulty mode. Where the floor is made of lava and you have no weapons.

 

You die because you failed to be fireproof.

[Kiteless]

I like to think that everyone who thinks that those who want Scorpions to be fixed are just crying because its too hard have not played a legitimately and fairly (ie, well made) difficult game in their life.

[Xylia]

I hate the "WE NEED MOAR CHALLENGE!!!" crowd myself.

 

I mean, seriously?

 

Some of us play games to ENJOY and RELAX while playing them.

 

Some challenge is good, but not the kind that becomes frustrating while you sigh and slam the desk as yet again you're being knocked down, stunned, CC'd, staggered and unable to move/attack/whatever.

 

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT GAME IT IS, STUN/CC IS ANNOYING. PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

 

There are better ways to come up with "challenge" than CC.

 

CC works when players do it to mobs because mobs don't have minds, they don't think. But add in chain-CC to anything that happens to a player and you cause mass frustration. People like to have control of their character, they like to feel that they are in control of their actions and the situation around them.

 

If you make a bad decision and get killed, well, fine.

 

If you merely enter a map and then WHAM, you die without being given a chance... that's not fine.

 

There's really no defense against these stupid things. Why can't you at least shoot your pistol while being dragged? That way you could at least have a defense against them.

 

How can they get you without Line of Sight? That's just simply $&*&*#(%&. There's absolutely no explanation for how they can HOOK you with a ROPE through walls, crates, barrels, etc.

 

And they should have a max range on that attack, say no more than 10-15 meters because you can only throw a rope&hook so far and actually hit something, and THEN it should also have a travel time to give you a chance to dodge it.

 

And Remember, CC means CROWD Control.

 

Players use CC against NPC enemies because it is 1-4 players against 200+ enemies, not 1-4 Enemies against 200 Players.

 

This is why occasional CC works during Boss Fights, but Common Enemies using CCs is not OK.

 

Multiple Common Enemies = Chain CC that is unavoidable.

 

1 Boss that CCs = Meh. I can deal with it.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Xylia

[Kiteless]

Personally, I love difficult games. I ended up writing a 14 page paper once on just why Dark Souls' difficulty makes it so good. But the key in that is fair, well thought out gameplay.

 

Since there's no way to actually prevent, dodge, or in any way mitigate the effect of the Scorpions, the game is essentially punishing you (extremely harshly, in some situations) with no input on behalf of the player. If you are running through a level into the next room, and a Scorpion is standing anywhere within that room (I've been grabbed from opposite ends of two different rooms, through several walls), there is absolutely nothing you can do, you will get grabbed, and you will get punished for getting grabbed. And the most generous situation is that you'll actually be able to see who is even grabbing you (once again, they grab through walls).

 

There is absolutely nothing to learn or take from any situation involving a Scorpion. You don't get grabbed because you, as the player, made a mistake. You get grabbed because the Scorpion spawned.

 

Good difficulty means that the player can learn from what happened (or with good intuition, depending on the situation), and with the right knowledge, make sure it doesn't happen again. This is how good play works, you are supposed to learn from your mistakes.

 

Right now, Warframe is actually a very easy game, with the exception of a few select situations where it is entirely unfair.

 

I wouldn't mind if the game was made harder, but it has to be done consistently, intelligently, and in a way that makes the player feel that they're not simply being abused.

Edited May 24, 2013 by Kiteless

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Maybe we can ask for optional AI companions in SOLO mode?

[Kiteless]

And that does nothing to fix the issue of a poorly designed enemy type.

 

At the end of the day, it's not a matter of having teammates along to help take care of the Scorpions. It's having a teammate along so that they can get grabbed instead of you.

[simonc]

Rather than removing the scorpion from single player, perhaps the grab&tow should be escapable via your tier 2 powers.

 

For example: Radial Blind as Excalibur, Iron Skin as Rhino, Smoke Screen as Ash, etc.

 

This way you have a chance of breaking free, but it's going to require you to have kept some energy on hand. If you've blown all your energy when you didn't need to, than you'll get punished for it if a scorpion finds you.

Edited May 24, 2013 by simonc

[Iraetus]

Err... not to sound like a... complete jerk, but they are not as bad as rollers.

 

Maybe reduce number of Mob spawn or Scorpion spawn.

 

The addition of the Scorpion was a nice variety to the Grineer Army.

[Xylia]

Maybe we can ask for optional AI companions in SOLO mode?

 

The problem with AI companions is that with all the Parkour in Warframe (I can't count the number of times I had trouble getting a Hostage to follow me in certain rooms), and the advanced tactics needed for some bosses/situations...

 

They'd have to program this AI really really stinking good for it to really work.

 

And to the guy who mentioned Dark Souls:

 

You, sir, are exactly on the money. 99% of everything in Dark Souls (which is a MUCH harder game, I bet some of these "Warframe is TOO EASY" would keel over in fits of crying if they were to try DkS) is fair and balanced gameplay, with the exception of PvP Hacking / OP Combinations (which does not apply to Warframe) and a few terrain glitches.

 

If you die in Dark Souls, you did something wrong and you will learn. Usually it is because you got overconfident or lazy and the game delivered one heck of a sucker punch to wake you up and remind you what game you're playing. But it is a learning experience each time.

 

Warframe?

 

Ya okay, Stalker spawned while I was attempting to do a Stealth Mission and had a PARIS equipped on a Lv10 Warframe. Ya, okay, I'm supposed to learn from what.... what, never level a new Warframe? Never use PARIS? Is that what I'm supposed to "Learn" from something killing me in 5 seconds?

 

Or these Scorpions... what are we supposed to "Learn" from them? Don't do Grineer Missions until they fix this stuff?

[Xylia]

Err... not to sound like a... complete jerk, but they are not as bad as rollers.

 

Maybe reduce number of Mob spawn or Scorpion spawn.

 

The addition of the Scorpion was a nice variety to the Grineer Army.

 

Scorpions are fine, EXCEPT:

 

1). They need Line of Sight for their rope hook ability. This only makes sense. How do you throw a rope through a wall/barrel/crate/whatever?

2). They need a maximum range, again, makes sense. They're throwing a rope with a hook at you. 15 meters seems fair.

3). You need to be able to shoot your pistol while being dragged. Again, makes sense, you need SOME sort of defense in a 3-5 second "stun".

[Worira]

Also the grab needs to be telegraphed and dodgeable.