Equinox Is Weak

[Sieg]

I agree. Currently I honestly don't see much use for this warframe. It's not a solo frame, it's pure support, yet it skills are so lacking that I don't see any reason to take it in a group since it can not really fill any of the standard roles (CC, damage, support). I gave it some thought and came up with a few changes that would go a long way in making this frame viable:

 

1) Have Day and Night form have differences apart from the skills they can use (armor, energy, HP, speed, and stuff like that to spice things up)

 

2) Increase the range of "Pacify and Provoke" by a HUGE amount. Pacify could actually be useful with proper range and scaling. Equinox could basically act like an "Ancient Healer" and make allies take 90-95% less damage at around 200% power strength. That would be really useful to have. But the range would need to be increased a lot for this. With the current range the team would basically need to stay next to each other to have anything from this buff and even then it would only really work in very small rooms. And when you plan to basically just stay close to each other all the time you might as well take Frost.

 

= Range with just "Stretch" would need to be high enough to cover bigger rooms for the skill to be useful.

 

3) Change "Mend", his Nightform ult to restoring Energy instead of Health. This would actually make it useful and make Equinox an alternative to Trinity.

 

Pacify definitely could be reworked to offer higher damage reduction with less penalty for range. Equinox as of now seems to be geared towards mobility, and the devs should capitalize on this great idea. With the range and damage reduction boosted on Pacify as well as the range and power strength boost on Provoke, Equinox could serve as a mobile turret of sorts, dispensing both damage reduction and boost to powers on demand depending on the situation. As of now, both Pacify and Provoke are lackluster and hindered by their poor range and reliance on power strength.

[Rhaenxys]

The buffs when switching forms should be static with a fixed duration, decaying over time is terrible and mend should restore shields too.

Edited August 1, 2015 by Rhaenxys

[Pride]

Maim needs either stacking bleeds or its finisher to feel more stable i can run in with 2000 maim and clean the map or with 25000 maim and only deal 2000 damage im not sure whats going on but i dont like it.

Second point is the passive its weak very weak switch it to rank 9 equilibrium but only have it work one way in each form night gains 25 energy from health orbs while day gains 25 health from energy orbs

[EchoesOfRain]

After using her a bit more, I think I've some better feedback...

 

 

 

I used to play her with a max range build. but since then have decided to try just stretch, with more power strength

 

Rest/Rage: Ever since I got rid of Overextended, I stopped using these. I could only get maybe 2 enemies at once, even with stretch. I'd say increase the base range a bit to help out. Also, does anyone use Rage? Rest is the only one that I find myself using of these two

 

Pacify/Provoke: The energy drain on Pacify is so much better without so much range, and the power strength makes her surprisingly Tanky. However, I still find this to be THE skill to suck away all my energy. I think something needs to be done with that...And I hardly use Provoke, but I do keep it active every once in a while when in Day form

 

Mend/Maim: Maim is perfect, imo. If not for Maim, I wouldn't even change forms. Mend, however, does need something passive. I'm totally against Heal Over Time, though. If you're going to charge up a heal bomb, there should be other ways of improving ally survivability. Perhaps give it a good shield regeneration, it ignores the delay from losing health to regenerating shields, and allow it to go into Overshields. Losing the delay for shield regeneration would allow allies to soak up a more damage if being shot multiple times.

[Empiren]

Hahah, I knew I shouldn't pick up that frame.

(looked like a yin-yang version of chroma, without the tankyness)

[----Fenrir----]

Pacify/Provoke: The energy drain on Pacify is so much better without so much range, and the power strength makes her surprisingly Tanky.

 

Problem is that with the poor base range this will only be useful against infested (they need to get closer to you after all) and only for yourself. So no group support and for a solo ability it eats away far too much energy.

 

Only real support use I found for it is against Infested and with an EV Trinity in the team to take care of the horrendous energy consumption. Max range (overextended + stretch) + around 200 power strength seem to make it useful enough as long as you all stick together. But that is only against Infested and only when sticking rather closely together. Against ranged enemies in medium sized or larger rooms the range simply won't suffice.

[BlueOwlRest]

Problem is that with the poor base range this will only be useful against infested (they need to get closer to you after all) and only for yourself. So no group support and for a solo ability it eats away far too much energy.

 

Only real support use I found for it is against Infested and with an EV Trinity in the team to take care of the horrendous energy consumption. Max range (overextended + stretch) + around 200 power strength seem to make it useful enough as long as you all stick together. But that is only against Infested and only when sticking rather closely together. Against ranged enemies in medium sized or larger rooms the range simply won't suffice.

 

Ummm.... from warframe wiki:

 

Night Equinox emits a crippling aura that affects all enemies in range, reducing their damage by 20% / 33% / 43% / 50%. While Pacify is active, 1.5 / 1.25 / 1 / .5 energy is drained per second for each enemy within the aura.

 

....so enemies in the aura get their damage reduced. If an enemy is outside the aura, they do full damage..... this is pretty much saying that you have to be in the front line, right next to the enemy to be effective for squad or anyone.

Edited August 2, 2015 by AkemiStar

[ranks21]

stand beside a mirage+eclipse augment and quick cast an all power maim in a high level battle and then youll know if equinox is weak/ average  or strong.

Edited August 2, 2015 by ranks21

[Post_Scriptum]

stand beside a mirage+eclipse augment and quick cast an all power maim in a high level battle and then youll know if equinox is weak/ average or strong.

So she needs Mirage+Total Eclipse to be useful?

And even then shed be a one trick pony?

Out of not even 4 skills like other frames but 7 skills

That doesnt really sound strong or even average......

I wish Pacify/Provoke(or at least pacify) was a AOE around her like Banshee's silence....

Edited August 2, 2015 by Post_Scriptum

[----Fenrir----]

this is pretty much saying that you have to be in the front line, right next to the enemy to be effective for squad or anyone.

 

There is no single front line, at least not in defense, survival, or interception missions, because the enemies come from all sides. And for that the range just isn't sufficient.

 

So she needs Mirage+Total Eclipse to be useful?

 

 

Nope, Mirage with Total Eclipse + EV Trinity. Because the energy consumption is not sustainable otherwise. At least not without spamming energy restores.

[BlueOwlRest]

There is no single front line, at least not in defense, survival, or interception missions, because the enemies come from all sides. And for that the range just isn't sufficient.

 

 

Nope, Mirage with Total Eclipse + EV Trinity. Because the energy consumption is not sustainable otherwise. At least not without spamming energy restores.

that's why i've been doing parkour all over the map. freaken circle the place like 10 times in 30 secs while taking out enemies. get some skillz XD

[TheStag]

Although these points are valid, Equinox has only been out for a day or so. I would suggest waiting about two weeks to see what becomes of Equinox. Limbo got a lot of hate on initial release and still gets a lot of hate, however he is by far one of the most powerful frames with some of the highest survivability in the game.

[Eldnacpeek]

Called it.

 

 

Good for you.

[Swailwort]

While posting a reply to another on an Equinox thread in General, I realized my post could be better served here on the Feedback Section. So here is a breakdown of my findings on Equinox's skills.

Metamorphosis: Its night transformation offers very little extra shields/health that runs on a timer. Its day transformation offers a decent amount of damage and speed boost, but in order to activate it, you must switch between day and night, which is slower than most cast animations, and you can be interrupted out of it.

Outclassed by: Rhino's Roar, Volt's Speed, nearly every tank skill

Rest and Rage: While in night, Equinox can sleep enemies which opens them up to finishers, but the range is so poor it might as well be a single cast ability. It is far inferior to any kind of wide range, non-line of sight CC such as Radial Disarm, Bastille, or even Sound Quake. Its finisher state can also be achieved much better with Vortex. While in day, Rest and Rage takes on the role of a Speed Nova, that shares the same poor power range as night form. If you really want one particular enemy to take a bit more damage and move faster, this skill fits the role of a single target Molecular Prime.

Outclassed by: Vauban's Bastille, Vauban's Vortex, Nova's Molecular Prime, Excalibur's Radial Blind, pretty much every CC Skill.

Pacify and Provoke: One of Night Equinox's better skills, it offers a damage reduction for enemies that come into range of the skill. However, the damage reduction is limited by its range and power strength, while Trinity's is not. The skill also drains energy when more enemies come into range, while Blessing is a one-time cast. Day Equinox offers power strength to allies with this skill. My tests have shown a 50% increase in power strength with max power strength mods (284%). While this seems useful, it is greatly outclasses by Rhino's Roar and any single-target augment mod such as Freezing Force. Also the skill drains energy quickly with no efficiency mods, and it requires allies to stay in range to receive the buff.

Outclassed by: Trinity's Blessing, Rhino's Roar, Any augment mod

Mend and Maim: One of Day Equinox's better skills, it offers a constantly slash proc of 60-300 damage to all enemies in range, which builds up a meter that allows Equinox to release Maim to deal a nice amount of slash damage. However, this build up to this final radial slash is long or short depending on the amount of enemies you harm, and the final slash is barely stronger than Saryn's Miasma. It is inhibited by power range and strength, where Equinox needs to balance both range and power to decide whether or not it needs to proc many enemies for weaker damage or fewer enemies from stronger damage. There is one upside to the Day Equinox's use of this skill, which is its ability to CC enemies while moving. With max range, Equinox can keep enemies at constant stagger with Maim, as if it was a moving sound quake.

Night Equinox however, gets the short end of the stick with this skill, and its Mend does no damage to enemies, but simply saves up a heal that it can release to recover allied HP. It does not restore shields or give any extra health over maximum. It is far less useful than Trinity's bless, which offers health, shields and damage reduction or even Oberon's renewal which offers health regeneration and also revives allies. Both of these skills are instant cast while Mend requires enemies and two casts to use.

Outclassed by: Trinity's Bless, Oberon's Renewal, Saryn's Miasma

Efficient in: Mobile CC in the likeness of Sound Quake

Conclusion: Equinox is beyond a niche frame that has uses in some mission somewhere. In nearly every instance, it is completely outclassed by other frames and brings nothing unique to the table than being able to do many things poorly. Even Oberon, who was the ultimate jack-of-all trades hybrid frame, offers viability in the form of a ranged revive while Equinox has nothing.

While I understand the developers wish to make a frame that fits the theme of Ying and Yang (two polar opposites), it is quite disappointing to say the least, when none of the skills save for one are useful to the point where they showcase the need to change from Ying to Yang. Day mode is far superior to Night mode in any situation, and every frame is superior to Equinox period, in all situations but one.

In short: Equinox needs a major buff. It is not viable to bring it to high level missions when other frames can do anything Equinox do, but better.

Tell me, how many frames can do everything Equinox is able to do?

How many frames are able to heal, buff, support, control and deal damage, all in one single frame?

I know there are better frames at certain specific areas an all that S#&$, but none of then can do everything Equinox is able to do. Trinity is close, but she can't really buff allies nor deal massive amounts of damage and her CC sucks.

Also, Maim is NOT outclassed by Miasma. How is an infinite scaling, long range ability outclassed by a short range one with a fixed damage. What, will you do 40 waves of T4 with a Saryn? Meanwhile, Equinox stores thousands of damage just by shooting and releasing it in the tough moments... Eg: Miasma Max Damage is 13228. Opticor does 16k damage in one shot. Maim stores that damage. In other words, Maim does more damage in only one Opticor round. Imagine a clip of it.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Good for you.

Thank you.

[Halser]

The only good ability Equinox has is Maim, because it scales very well. Provoke is half decent too, but nothing special, the bonus is just too small.

 

Rest&Rage has hilariously bad range, even when you're completely focused on power range. It really reminds me of pre-buff Shield Polarize and Pull, just pointless. Give it a lot more range and maybe it will be useful.

 

Mend could use less 'heal potency' and have another additional effect. You don't need to heal for thousands of hit points, most of the time 1000 HP is more than enough to cap everyone in a party. Maim is great for how it scales, but Mend scales unecessarily. Perhaps if excess hit points added up as overhealth this ability would be more interesting.

 

Pacify is alright, but it has a 85% DR cap instead of 95%, and I don't understand why.

 

Metamorphosis has no business having a cooldown. I expected to be switching between forms all the time to make good use of all abilities whenever the situation changed, but the way the ability works it's better for you to stick to one form. The bonuses are nice, but I don't understand why they have to decrease over time.

[Sieg]

Tell me, how many frames can do everything Equinox is able to do?

How many frames are able to heal, buff, support, control and deal damage, all in one single frame?

I know there are better frames at certain specific areas an all that S#&$, but none of then can do everything Equinox is able to do. Trinity is close, but she can't really buff allies nor deal massive amounts of damage and her CC sucks.

Also, Maim is NOT outclassed by Miasma. How is an infinite scaling, long range ability outclassed by a short range one with a fixed damage. What, will you do 40 waves of T4 with a Saryn? Meanwhile, Equinox stores thousands of damage just by shooting and releasing it in the tough moments... Eg: Miasma Max Damage is 13228. Opticor does 16k damage in one shot. Maim stores that damage. In other words, Maim does more damage in only one Opticor round. Imagine a clip of it.

 

In what situation is Equinox preferable to other frames based on her versatility?

 

How does having a charge-up heal that does not give anything besides health during one form, having a power strength buff that is far inferior to Roar or any single-target augment mod, having a skill that reduces damage by only 50% to enemies that are only in the immediate vicinity of Equinox, having a sleep that has an AOE range of a few meters that can't be boosted with power range, and having a weaker negative strength M-Prime that lacks any range better than a frame that does one or two things very well that other party members can solve by bringing a frame that counters their teammates' weaknesses?

 

If you go through the motions and set up a team with a Trinity for support, Rhino for Damage and CC, and Nova for CC and more damage, which part of the puzzle does Equinox fit in?

Rhino can Roar to boost ally damage, and stomp to CC enemies, but can't heal.

Trinity covers Rhino's inability to heal party members, but offers no damage, but is covered in return by Rhino.

Nova both CCs and offers damage with Molecular Prime and covers Trinity's inability to boost damage, but in return cannot heal like Rhino.

In this party setup, you have 3 very strong specialists that all cover each other's weaknesses, which creates a team composition that is strong all around.

What does Equinox offer this party?

What is the worth of "versatility" in a party that builds on each others weaknesses?

 

So far, no one has given any example where Equinox's ability to do 7 things poorly is better than specializing in few things and letting your teammates' specializations cover your weaknesses.

 

As for Maim:

After running various tests with Maim, I've concluded that it is a very strong skill that requires much build up in order to deal high damage. Contrary to my original post, it is not the "mobile sound quake" I once believed it to be. The slash stagger proc only happens when an enemy first enters in range of Maim, and after the enemy finishes being staggered, Maim no longer deals slash damage to the enemy. This means Maim is only good for temporary CC, almost like a speed bump where enemies have to stop briefly before converging upon Equinox.

The damage stored by Maim seems to be limitless, but the required damage to reach that limit questions Maim's usefulness. Contrary to popular believe, dealing a singular high hit does not store that hit 1:1. I shot multiple enemies with a max crit build Tonkor in T3D which deals around 20k each enemy, and each 20k I saw gave me ~3k in stored slash damage. The Mesa I was grouped with gave me ~2k stored damage with each enemy she killed, far exceeding what my Tonkor could do for Maim.

 

The build I was running is max range with 125% power strength (max transient fortitude and intensify, with overextended and stretch). The stored damage counter only reaches 65,000 before resetting down to 0 (the stored damage continues from this value even if the counter reaches 0). On waves 1-10, it took around a wave and a half to reach 65000 stored damage.

Gradually, the enemies grew stronger and by wave 20, I could reach 4+ resets (260,000+ stored damage) in one wave with Mesa fueling my stored damage greatly. 

 

Released, the slash proc dealt massive damage, one shotting all enemies in the vicinity (http://puu.sh/jmbiX/7b38d10df2.jpg). Very strong indeed.

Tests with lower stored damage shows that Maim does not ignore armor and is affected by all the resistances regular slash damage is affected by. However, for a party running 4 Corrosive Projections, enemy armor can be completely eliminated, meaning Maim has very good potential to be useful for high-level missions. 

 

In short: Maim is a very strong skill that scales with ally damage, and deals massive slash damage that is affected by enemy armor. It is Equinox's finest skill, but a good 4 that clears rooms isn't exactly unique. I guarantee you that DE did not mean to make Equinox another "press 4 to win" frame, but the way the skill works makes it very enticing for high level play.

 

@Swailwort: While Maim has more endgame viability than Miasma, it is simply not as quick and as easy to use. Maim requires time and enough enemies to make it stronger than Miasma, which means when rushing through a T4 Exterminate, Maim by itself is nowhere near as fast as Miasma for clearing rooms. To outclass Miasma fully, Maim would need to be grouped into a party with a Saryn spamming Miasma to leech off of her kills to charge Maim. So I'll leave it at "both are useful, but for different reasons".

[Cyv001]

I'm mainly hoping for a large range buff and some sort of tweak to night form equinox's ultimate. Maybe gradual impact damage? I dunno.

[----Fenrir----]

Main is indeed very powerful, more so than I first thought. For defense missions I can see possibilities for a 2x Equinox + EV Trinity setup. Having 2x Equinox would increase the damage by quiet a lot. Not just does it mean that Maim is running twice, they can also buff each others damage with "Provoke" as well has helping each other to store damage faster by basically powering up the others damage counter by unleashing their own the way Nyx could do in the past.

 

So as far as its Day-form is concerned I think Equinox is mostly fine. With only his second ability being pretty much useless.

 

It's just sad that his Night-form is so pointless. "Mend" is the worst healing ability in the game and even Oberon does it better. Why is there nothing to do with all that excess energy not required for healing? Why can't he boost shields (like Trinity) or health over their normal limit? Or maybe restore energy? Both would go a long way in making his Night-form a more viable alternative to his Day-form.

 

And while "Pacify" could be decent, the current range is too short to make it useful for missions and playstyles that require you to move around. It's bad enough that it requires so much energy to run that a Trinity is required, at the very least give it enough range to be useful. And for this kind of ability that would require at least slightly more base range than "Maim" currently has.

 

 

Pacify is alright, but it has a 85% DR cap instead of 95%, and I don't understand why.

 

 

Well, I understand why they did that. Pacify isn't normal damage reduction after all. It reduces the damage enemies do, before they actually hit you. Whatever damage reduction a warframe has, be it from armor or abilities, is further decreasing that 15% rest damage value.

 

If it was 95%, combined with skills like "Shatter shield" or "Eclipse" when standing in the dark. you would basically get nearly total invulnerability. Even now with the 85% cap you can probably reach around 98% damage reduction.

Edited August 2, 2015 by ----Fenrir----

[zzuit]

i rushed him/her/it with 150p. 

i feel FORCED to not just throw it away now because of that but its so boring to use.

[Zurakci]

Oh look. Someone is comparing Warframes that takes on multiple roles to Warframes with a specific role. Never seen that one happen before.

 

This is the second forum post that I have seen saying its bad. Dont play Equinox if you dont like it. or play it for the sake of the warframe, and now cause of the abilities. Seriously, learn to warframe without abilities. It gives the best results, less complainment and more fun.

 

( All Seriousness put back. There is a difference between a Multi Role frame and a Specific frame. Multi role will always be weaker in what the specifics can do. Its in all games, deal with it.)

Edited August 2, 2015 by Zurakci

[BattledOne]

stand beside a mirage+eclipse augment and quick cast an all power maim in a high level battle and then youll know if equinox is weak/ average  or strong.

Just a quick note, Eclipse eon't buff anything besides weapon damage. Only reason it buffs Mesa's/Excal's Ult damage is because their ult give them a weapon. That's also why Excal can damage nullifier's bubble, the slashes are effect of the exalted blade's sword, not the ability's.

Edited August 2, 2015 by BattledOne

[FelisImpurrator]

( All Seriousness put back. There is a difference between a Multi Role frame and a Specific frame. Multi role will always be weaker in what the specifics can do. Its in all games, deal with it.)

This. All this complaining about "Generalists can't do anything" is because people are so used to running nothing but the absolute minmaxed comps every single run and looking at balance as a question of "can it oneshot level 100+ enemies in T4?"

 

On the other hand. Equinox needs a lot of QoL - the numbers on their abilities are seriously imbalanced in a lot of ways, most notably extremely low range (and Pacify/Provoke's energy drain interacting with said range) and Mend absolutely cannot go without a buff - and I'm saying this as someone whose new favorite frame, visually and thematically, is Equinox. Rushed for 150p and all. I will still use the hell out of them while waiting for hotfixes to provide desperately needed week one fixes/buffs, though.

[kermit223]

In night form she can heal objectives in defense and excavation missions. It can be very useful.

[-InV-igo95862]

 

( All Seriousness put back. There is a difference between a Multi Role frame and a Specific frame. Multi role will always be weaker in what the specifics can do. Its in all games, deal with it.)

 

Except there is no need in multi role. Multi role would be useful if your mission objectives would have been unknown so you might have need different roles on the same mission.

 

I can give example from Dota 2. There are heroes that are good in early game, heroes that are good late game and heroes that are average through out the game. Such heroes are useful as you can use them in a back up plan if the game goes late.

 

In Warframe you can completely fulfill all roles in 4 warframes. Since the mission objectives are always predetermined there is never a situation when you need suddenly to change a role. All multi-role is kind of a waste and not worth weaker abilities.

Edited August 2, 2015 by igo95862