And What Of Shotgun Pistols?

[Impulse_Nine]

Firstly- love the shotgun changes- never felt so satisfying to fire a Hek and I'm seriously considering rebuilding the Tigris.

 

But what about my Mara Detron? The Bronco / AkBronco Prime? Pyrana? No love apparently :(

 

The shotgun pistols were just as under powered as the shotguns (I gather for the same reason, ineffective at range, more time and danger getting right up to an enemy but for no significant reward in greater damage). 

 

Not wanting to sound demanding, but, any reason they were passed over? Any chance you could twiddle their stats up in the same fantastic way you have redone the primary shotguns?

[-Amaterasu-]

The detron has no damage falloff so it really dosen't need a buff

[oceano4]

Detron, Mera Detron and Brakk are fine, but the Bronco family could do with buffs. 

[Nira]

The detron has no damage falloff so it really dosen't need a buff

 

Its per-pellet damage is lower than most other secondary shotguns, not to mention its inferior status and crit stats. I know Brakk/Detron comparisons are at times dismissed, but fact is both of them are obtained in largely the same way and are an equal PITA to get. Presently the Brakk rewards the patient hunter far more by way of sheer damage output. Not only does it have vastly higher base damage, it also has 15%/2x critical stats, compared to the Detron's 2.5%/x1.5.

 

I freakin' love the Detron, it's my most-used weapon in Warframe, but it often feels lacking.

 

 

Detron, Mera Detron and Brakk are fine, but the Bronco family could do with buffs. 

 

Have you tried building the primes for procs? They work pretty darn great in that department.

Edited August 4, 2015 by Dualice

[Impulse_Nine]

The Detron twins and Brakk are not fine by comparison- they deal good, not great, damage in perfect point-blank circumstances- and are sub-par the rest of the time, which is to say, most of the time. I'm not going to bombard people with numbers but they are there if you want them. 

 

The condensed version is that if your target is over about 10/15m away- you would do better with a rifle-type pistol- which usually has the added advantages of automatic fire, better ability to land more shots on the head (which is a big deal), and of course effectiveness beyond 10m while still doing similar damage within 10m.

 

The Bronco Prime pair do indeed build very well for procs but so do other pistols that in addition to proccing aplenty, deal more damage at greater ranges and need less keys and time to acquire. Additionally, I dont know about you, but I found the Bronco Prime/s to have a huge cone of fire so farcically wide that getting all the pellets into the head hitbox was difficult even at point blank... perhaps that's just me though :s

[GravesTheOutlaw]

The Mara Detron and Brakk in particular are quite strong if you macro fire and use 20 arcane awakenings.

Edited August 4, 2015 by GravesTheOutlaw

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

A damage buff would be nice.

The detron has no damage falloff so it really dosen't need a buff

What?

 

No, that makes no sense. It's devoid of logic. "Doesn't have a quality? Obviously it's fine."

 

Fall off is @(*()$ pointless, but not having falloff doesn't make something good by any stretch of the imagination.

[Nira]

Just swapping the Brakk's and Detron's critical stats would be a nice start, I think. As Snowbluff says, the lack of damage drop-off is in no way a saving grace.

 

He©k, maybe give Detron even better critical stats. It'd be a more nuanced improvement than just bumping up the damage. A crit-viable sidearm, nay even a crit-viable shotgun sidearm, would be a first!

Edited August 4, 2015 by Dualice

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

He©k, maybe give Detron even better critical stats. It'd be a more nuanced improvement than just bumping up the damage. A crit-viable sidearm, nay even a crit-viable shotgun sidearm, would be a first!

Aksomati is crit viable, as is Lex Prime. Now, no shotgun is crit viable, so any of the Kohmak/Detron/Brakks being crit viable would be a first.

 

That being said pistol crit mods aren't as good as rifle ones.

[-Amaterasu-]

A damage buff would be nice.

What?

 

No, that makes no sense. It's devoid of logic. "Doesn't have a quality? Obviously it's fine."

 

Fall off is @(*()$ pointless, but not having falloff doesn't make something good by any stretch of the imagination.

The Detron does 105 Radiation damage ignoring the fact that radiation is a rather good damage type it has no damage fall off at all compared to something like the bronco that does more but falls off over mid-large distances, fall off is not pointless it's realistic and fall off is implemented in nearly any game that has shotguns having no fall off is a huge thing to have over other shotguns and with it's default element the detron is a good gun to have being beaten probably ony by brakk over mid distances

[taiiat]

Bronco Series certainly is uh... heh.

Bronco was mediocre even when it was brand new to Warframe. it's always been... not so great. AkBronco was only used because Players could spam quickly to get more Burst DPS than other Sidearms at the time. while having very low Sustained DPS and Accuracy.

Bronco Prime performs okay. i wish it was less Impact weighted, as that alone would make it perform better.

AkBronco Prime is just a Frankenstein.

i still want Detron Series to be able to Charge (or Alt Fire Charge i guess, since we have Alt Fire that works now), to be able to fire a more accurate shot. it would take a bit of time though, so your paper Damage would go down considerably(i.e. shooting slower). but to compensate, that higher Accuracy lets you put all of your pellets on target, and even aim for Weakpoints.

that would be enough IMO, however i wouldn't be against a Damage bump of 10 or so. and viable Status(which it doesn't have as of now).

Brakk is extremely powerful as it stands. it's Damage is incredible. no adjustments would be necessary at all.

- - - - -

however no, Sidearm Shotguns don't need to be as blatantly Overpowered as some of the Primary versions are [now]. but adjustments in general were warranted for most of the Shotguns in the game.

ofcourse, we didn't really get almost anything that the Shotguns needed, only enough Damage to easymode W+M1 Enemies rather than making them more competitive with other Weapons while still retaining a role.

Now, no shotgun is crit viable

Pyrana is the Crit Shotgun.

Brakk is also Crit viable.

Edit:

fall off is implemented in nearly any game that has shotguns

games that have good balance that do that, are applying Falloff to Shotguns because all Guns have Falloff.

the loss of Accuracy is more than plenty to keep Shotguns from sniping without Falloff. most of your potential Damage misses, so your actual Damage is still crap even without Falloff.

but atleast you can deal SOME Damage at range.

Edited August 5, 2015 by taiiat