Mesa's [Peacemaker] Rework Concept

[Agentnewbie]

Hi everyone.

 

Ok, I say it - I hate Mesa's [4], and its the only thing that keeps me from maining her. Seriously, this ability is even more disgusting than Ash's [4] - at least he has limited targets and pretty slow animation. It is like "look at me, I am pressing 4, holding lmb and everything dies. I'm so good at this game". Realy? Gunslinger? More like a freaking mobile turret. And maybe I am not first, who do this kind of concept, but I hope at least DE will see this and realize the mistakes they did.

 

Lets go.

 

Peacemaker - Mesa quickly draws her guns and preform a couple of shots in enemies in sight. No more tougle, but higher damage and...

 

-when standing or walking - a pretty much full-speed version of current. (works pretty much like Excal's [3]. But more powerfull. And cool.)

 

-when running - spins in a tornado-like move, while shooting in her enemies. Range shorted by half (because you moving => enemies have hard time to track you)

 

-when sliding - breakdance-like move with getting up on the feet at the end. Range also shorted by half (Same reason again.)

 

-after bullet - jump/while aim-glide - spins in horizontal direction, shooting enemies in a cone ahead. Double/tripple damage (Because zone of fire is heavily limited, also it's hard to get in situation to use it).

 

-when falling down - . No need to reinvent bicycle.

 

This is only change, that will bring an "LOOK AT ME IM HOLDING LMB I AM GODLIKE!!!11" Mesa to a fast and agile Gunslinger.

[maimus]

What about every other warframe that has an AoE ult?

Just because she stands still and auto targets whilst draining energy over time, doesn't mean that she is over powered.

Example. Saryn can clear whole rooms just by pressing 4, and that's all at once. Not one by random one.

Just leave her as she is and play her with a 2&3 build.

[Agentnewbie]

I didn't say she is overpowered. She is just BOOOOOORIIIIING. Saryn btw is whole another story. With her you at least need actualy come closer to the enemy, and her 4 is actualy usefull as AoE CC, when not builded in str onlly. What have Mesa ult w/o str? A big D. Death. Because she is standing still and dealing no damage. My concept at least solving the first problem. Plus it will look badass and this is a fact you can't ignore ;P

 

Not mentioning, that it will fit conclave, but who cares?

Edited August 18, 2015 by Agentnewbie

[InoxMaximus]

well, I love Peacemaker. it makes peace for me. I dont see a mistake so..

but your suggestions are cool.

[Marthrym]

I like Peacemaker. Sue me.

 

It's her 1 and 2 that desperately need attention.

 

EDIT : If Peacemaker changes, then so must EVERY other AOE based ultimate. Some are better than Peacemaker. Much better. Bladestorm for instance. Scales much better than Peacemaker. Miasma too. What about these abilties? If pressing 4 then pressing lmb is lame, then what is just pressing 4 to instantly clear rooms with zero wind up time?^^'

Edited August 18, 2015 by Marthrym

[Agentnewbie]

Honestly, I am personaly hate them all, except Frost's, but he is kinda cool after rework. And Saryn, cause I'm playing [1] - based build, which is much more rewarding because a constant viral proc on high-level enemies, meaning you can go all way damage weapons, ignoring status chance and [4] is acting like a massive CC. And I saw a bunch of threads of Ash's Bladestorm only/whole rework and they all better that I can propose. Who we got next? Volt? He is fine. Oberon? He is fine too. Mag?..oh nvm, she has magnetic damage. Equinox? Probably fine, cause you need to actually do damage before you can do things. Ember? Man, please. Excalibur? Well, yes, totally broken, but this is mentioned by all. Mirage? Only if you are not afraid to find yourself in a zero-energy situation. Nova? Idk, she looks fine, but that ball...

[FelisImpurrator]

EDIT : If Peacemaker changes, then so must EVERY other AOE based ultimate. Some are better than Peacemaker. Much better. Bladestorm for instance. Scales much better than Peacemaker. Miasma too. What about these abilties? If pressing 4 then pressing lmb is lame, then what is just pressing 4 to instantly clear rooms with zero wind up time?^^'

Ideally, all ults should actually be interactive and fun to use, instead of 'press 4 to evaporate the map, or do nothing if enemy level is high enough'. Avalanche at LEAST is more interesting in that it freezes enemies.

 

Volt is not fine. Overload is equally boring... and ineffective on top of it. Oberon's ult is fine, it's a blast to use (or should I say, a Radiation?) Mag needs a tweak to Crush so it does something other than a trivial amount of an awful damage type. Equinox needs slightly more armor bypass and for Mend to not suck, but otherwise the design of the ability is mostly fine. Ember's World on Fire is still weird and awkward to use. Excal could use some tweaking to be more reliant on the blade than the waves, and more attack variation. but would otherwise be fine. Mirage's Prism shouldn't be better as a spammed blind than its actual use. Nova is pretty much fine except for her awful 1.

 

As for Peacemaker, this was what I wanted:

 

Mesa gets the ability to walk around slowly with Peacemakers drawn - replacement weapons, possibly scaling with some pistol mods, that channel like Exalted Blade. Regulators become "weakspot focused" weapons, possibly crit weapons - dealing huge multipliers to enemy crit spots, or to enemies with no weak points. Additionally, weak spots are highlighted with a targeting reticle icon, similar to Sonar but identifying existing spots instead of making new ones. All enemies in a cone extending forward from Mesa, scaling with range, get a slow debuff. Optionally, one hand might auto-aim, but fire at half the rate. Infinite ammo, but the pistols would have to reload. Alternatively, energy would be consumed as ammo, or an Archwing-style recharge system would be in place.

[(PSN)devack13]

For what it's worth i like the idea and get what you are saying but if Mesa lost peacemaker it would make farming harder so everyone and their grandmother is going to jump on you in an attempt to stop you from making it less OP Kinda like Nekros and Desecrate i truly respect that you are trying to fix Mesa cause i feel the same way about her but DE Screwed up and now the community has her and will fight to the last for the frame that stands on the pod or the middle of the room or what have you and kills everything the easy way

[FelisImpurrator]

 

So what? They'd have to git gud and learn how to aim with Mesa. Not my problem. Not DE's problem. That should be the patch they rework Desecrate, too, for maximum fun.

[(PSN)devack13]

So what? They'd have to git gud and learn how to aim with Mesa. Not my problem. Not DE's problem. That should be the patch they rework Desecrate, too, for maximum fun.

Damn right!

[Culaio]

Personally I believe that turret(gun kata) aspect of ability must stay but other things could be added to ability for example it could have both mobile mode(kinda like gun version of extalted blade) and "turret" mode(current ult but with decreased range), by pressing button you would be switching between them, this way you would make EVERYONE happy :).

[FelisImpurrator]

Personally I believe that turret(gun kata) aspect of ability must stay but other things could be added to ability for example it could have both mobile mode(kinda like gun version of extalted blade) and "turret" mode(current ult but with decreased range), by pressing button you would be switching between them, this way you would make EVERYONE happy :).

I don't think it would work. Most players would just keep using turret mode 24/7. Stationary push-button-to-annihilate abilities should not exist, because it's almost guaranteed that people will use them and ignore everything else.

[Culaio]

I don't think it would work. Most players would just keep using turret mode 24/7. Stationary push-button-to-annihilate abilities should not exist, because it's almost guaranteed that people will use them and ignore everything else.

I dont think they would able to if the range was decreased(mostly used to kill enemies that surround you), since mobile mode could give you range advantage but you would be forced to aim.

 

Also focus of this idea isnt preventing  people from using it as "turret" but to give people who prefer interactive "ult" what they want, its only way to make both groups happy, since if they replace current ult with gun version of extalted blade then you make other group happy at cost of people who enjoyed the ult before. I personally like current ult because its based on "gun kata" from "equilibrium" movie, its actually very reason why I got mesa, if they removed it, I would be pretty angry since all my effort to get mesa would be for nothing(and mesa isnt easiest to get)

 

here is reason why I like mesa ult:

 

 

Gun kata actually has both stationary and elements and mobile elements so adding option to switch between the two in mesa ult would make it even more like gun kata.

[FelisImpurrator]

 

Ah, but the point IS to stop people from parking their rear ends on a box, taping down a button, and going to take a nap. That's not the kind of "gameplay" I want to see in this game ever again. It's partly the existence of this lazy, immobile farming that ensures drop rates and XP will never properly be fixed, so it needs to be taken away while rewards are adjusted to compensate.

 

That said, I see what the videos are getting at. The problem with Peacemaker as it is is that the stationary gun-kata moves, which are only shown to be effective at extremely close ranges in the movie, are effective in-game at a range massive enough to cover entire maps. If it were effectively a close range (and I mean no further than, say, a short beam weapon like the Spectra or unmodified Atomos) area denial mode, I suppose I wouldn't mind it - shorter range would also give it far better target prioritization, making it actually useful for doing what it's supposed to, which is killing enemies before they kill you.

 

How about this:

-Peacemaker is moddable (with its own UI separate from your secondary; it shows as an 'extra secondary'), is likely a crit weapon, has a magazine but reloads extremely quickly (ballpark range - Vectis Prime reload). Other abilities can be cast freely.

 

-Either it's a channeling ability, and energy restrictions apply just like EB, or it's like Provoke and each shot consumes energy (scaling with efficiency - and possibly with "max spare ammo" mods). But considering it has much longer range than EB, it should probably be balanced to not be sustainable forever. Hard cap?

 

-When you activate the ult, holding down LMB while stationary does the same thing as old Peacemaker but at short (less than half) range.

 

-Aiming down sights triggers the alternate mode, which is the headhunting mode with slow I described - both pistols manual. Slower movement speed, weakspot highlight, huge multiplier (OR dealing finisher, to get past armor) on heads, cone slow scaling with range and strength (with minimum range and slow; no Speed Nova effect).

 

-Running and parkour are enabled, and shooting without ADS but while moving triggers a hybrid mode where one pistol auto-aims (half fire rate since it's one, and also short range), and the other is manual (full range and gets the headshot bonuses, possibly slowing the enemy that's directly under your sights, but also half fire rate.)

 

-Auto-aim will also try to seek out heads like Deconstructor, but of course it shouldn't be perfect.

The idea being - good aim is rewarded massively, but bad reflexes aren't punished excessively. The ability should have short, long, and medium range options respectively, and incentives to go mobile/exert effort in using it. A gunslinger should be able to mow down enemies at short range, but also hunt heads at a distance, picking out the weak spots in the hardest targets before they get close enough to engage. At the same time, the ability shouldn't be an eternal killzone sustained by a team of single purpose energy feeders, brutally overpowered at low levels and next to useless at high levels where lazy farmers would just quit and restart.

[Culaio]

Ah, but the point IS to stop people from parking their rear ends on a box, taping down a button, and going to take a nap. That's not the kind of "gameplay" I want to see in this game ever again. It's partly the existence of this lazy, immobile farming that ensures drop rates and XP will never properly be fixed, so it needs to be taken away while rewards are adjusted to compensate.

 

That said, I see what the videos are getting at. The problem with Peacemaker as it is is that the stationary gun-kata moves, which are only shown to be effective at extremely close ranges in the movie, are effective in-game at a range massive enough to cover entire maps. If it were effectively a close range (and I mean no further than, say, a short beam weapon like the Spectra or unmodified Atomos) area denial mode, I suppose I wouldn't mind it - shorter range would also give it far better target prioritization, making it actually useful for doing what it's supposed to, which is killing enemies before they kill you.

 

How about this:

-Peacemaker is moddable (with its own UI separate from your secondary; it shows as an 'extra secondary'), is likely a crit weapon, has a magazine but reloads extremely quickly (ballpark range - Vectis Prime reload). Other abilities can be cast freely.

 

-Either it's a channeling ability, and energy restrictions apply just like EB, or it's like Provoke and each shot consumes energy (scaling with efficiency - and possibly with "max spare ammo" mods). But considering it has much longer range than EB, it should probably be balanced to not be sustainable forever. Hard cap?

 

-When you activate the ult, holding down LMB while stationary does the same thing as old Peacemaker but at short (less than half) range.

 

-Aiming down sights triggers the alternate mode, which is the headhunting mode with slow I described - both pistols manual. Slower movement speed, weakspot highlight, huge multiplier (OR dealing finisher, to get past armor) on heads, cone slow scaling with range and strength (with minimum range and slow; no Speed Nova effect).

 

-Running and parkour are enabled, and shooting without ADS but while moving triggers a hybrid mode where one pistol auto-aims (half fire rate since it's one, and also short range), and the other is manual (full range and gets the headshot bonuses, possibly slowing the enemy that's directly under your sights, but also half fire rate.)

 

-Auto-aim will also try to seek out heads like Deconstructor, but of course it shouldn't be perfect.

The idea being - good aim is rewarded massively, but bad reflexes aren't punished excessively. The ability should have short, long, and medium range options respectively, and incentives to go mobile/exert effort in using it. A gunslinger should be able to mow down enemies at short range, but also hunt heads at a distance, picking out the weak spots in the hardest targets before they get close enough to engage. At the same time, the ability shouldn't be an eternal killzone sustained by a team of single purpose energy feeders, brutally overpowered at low levels and next to useless at high levels where lazy farmers would just quit and restart.

 

I like your idea, only thing that I want to mention is that "turret" mode also shouldnt have too short range otherwise at high level missions activating it will be suicide since mesa is pretty squishy, unless mesa "turret" mode will decrease amount of bullet's reaching us like its mention in "cleric traning" video above.

[FelisImpurrator]

I like your idea, only thing that I want to mention is that "turret" mode also shouldnt have too short range otherwise at high level missions activating it will be suicide since mesa is pretty squishy, unless mesa "turret" mode will decrease amount of bullet's reaching us like its mention in "cleric traning" video above.

Shatter Shield can be cast while in Peacemaker 2.0... but really, accuracy debuff on enemies shouldn't be too hard to throw in, like in Parkour 2.0 movements.

[paterance]

here is reason why I like mesa ult:

Damn right!

[Culaio]

Shatter Shield can be cast while in Peacemaker 2.0... but really, accuracy debuff on enemies shouldn't be too hard to throw in, like in Parkour 2.0 movements.

 

Now that we have general idea how could it work, lets push this idea further...To Infinity and Beyond!.  What if regulators in ult also replaced melee weapon, so we could hit enemies with our guns and do combos of hiting and shooting, kinda like Redeemer weapon in warframe :)

Edited August 19, 2015 by Culaio

[FelisImpurrator]

Now that we have general idea how could it work, lets push this idea further...To Infinity and Beyond!.  What if regulators in ult also replaced melee weapon, so we could hit enemies with our guns and do combos of hiting and shooting, kinda like Redeemer weapon in warframe :)

This is... an interesting idea. Custom gunkata stance? I actually like it. Why not!