Tigris And Duplex Trigger

[IX-44]

Simple fix for you people wanting to remove the duplex trigger on my boomstick: forward roll.

 

 

Do a forward roll while in between the first and second shot and you can have that second shot for whenever you need it!

 

 

 

 

But I really don't know why you can't just reload between the first and second shot because you should be modding the Tigris for a 1.3 reload speed... :l

 

 

D​on't nerf Tigris because you can't use it.

There are other shotguns, and if you want to use Tigris, get used to the trigger.

"I don't want to hold my mouse down for continuous weapons."

"I don't want to hold my mouse down for full auto fire."

 

EDIT: Also note that the reload mechanic also can be done like Vectis. If you fire both shots and press your reload button right away, it's a goodly amount of time shaved off.

Edited August 20, 2015 by EirwynTelyn

[HolidayPi3]

Simple fix for you people wanting to remove the duplex trigger on my boomstick: forward roll.

 

 

Do a forward roll while in between the first and second shot and you can have that second shot for whenever you need it!

 

 

 

 

But I really don't know why you can't just reload between the first and second shot because you should be modding the Tigris for a 1.3 reload speed... :l

 

 

D​on't nerf Tigris because you can't use it.

There are other shotguns, and if you want to use Tigris, get used to the trigger.

"I don't want to hold my mouse down for continuous weapons."

"I don't want to hold my mouse down for full auto fire."

 

EDIT: Also note that the reload mechanic also can be done like Vectis. If you fire both shots and press your reload button right away, it's a goodly amount of time shaved off.

The word "Nerf" has really lost its meaning if people are calling a QoL addition a nerf...

Anyways, I'm of the camp that neither of the fire options should replace each other, but there should be an option for both.

As for "I don't want to hold down my mouse for continuous weapons" etc. so what if people didn't? What if they added a new feature that let you click once to start the beam and click again to end it? If it makes the gun more intuitive for others to use and it doesn't affect its power in any way, what does it matter?

I can use duplex-auto just as effectively (if not more effectively, due to previous bugs) than semi auto on the Tigris. Being able to use the trigger feature doesn't make anyone special, because it's really not hard. Warframe in general is not a difficult game, and it really says something that people are looking to their control schemes to "add challenge" to an otherwise challengeless game. That being said, semi auto was more comfortable. It didn't make me perform any better or any worse, it just made made me not giggle at the fact that I was using such an awkward trigger mechanism for anything other than kicks and giggles.

[Bobtm]

At the end of the day all of this boils down to variation amongst the arsenal.

 

Now normally I'm one to be in favor of most any toggle being added to the game.  These things help players out to enjoy stuff while not hindering those who enjoy the current mechanics in question.  That said this doesn't necessarily justify having toggle options for everything, every fire mechanic, etc.

 

It's incredibly rare for any game ever to allow all trigger types to just mimic one another in style at a given player's discretion.  This isn't something done willy-nilly by game designers here, otherwise it wouldn't be such a prolific thing across games.  Games need, thrive, off of a few important things.  One of these is being a skill cieling/entry level which acts as a "you must be this tall to ride" limiter of sorts.  Players like being accompished at something, so making something difficult one can excel at where others can't is just a basic thing.  Another to note here is variation, making things different solely for the sake of them being different.

 

Yes, for all intents and purposes a game could allow a player to "toggle" a held trigger or automatic weapon so that tapping once starts the firing and tapping again stops it.  They could allow a player to just turn automatic firearms into semi-automatic firearms and to do the reverse.  But they don't, outside of either heavily limited or niche cases.  Allowing everything to be utilized in the same manner takes away from the reason these differences exist in the first place, to create diversity amongst gear selection across a given playerbase.

 

If everyone can get the firing mechanics they prefer most on any weapon without limitation, then most every player will merely choose weaons based on their statistical capabilities and nothing more.  Even in a game which has varied mechanics there are already going to be a large portion of players who solely "lemming" their way towards the current meta/best pieces of gear.  Removing variety among weapon mechanics also removes any reason players may have to not use a given weapon.

 

Long story short, even as someone who normally likes toggle options to assist in the enjoyment others can have, I cannot support this idea.  Doesn't mean I'm right of course, but as stated above I have very clear and understandable reasons for this stance.

 

Edit; typos because who cares about proof-reading.

Edited August 20, 2015 by Bobtm

[HolidayPi3]

At the end of the day all of this boils down to variation amongst the arsenal.

Now normally I'm one to be in favor of most any toggle being added to the game. These things help players out to enjoy stuff while not hindering those who enjoy the current mechanics in question. That said this doesn't necessarily justify having toggle options for everything, every fire mechanic, etc.

It's incredibly rare for any game ever to allow all trigger types to just mimic one another in style at a given player's discretion. This isn't something done willy-nilly by game designers here, otherwise it wouldn't be such a prolific thing across games. Games need, thrive, off of a few important things. One of these is being a skill cieling/entry level which acts as a "you must be this tall to ride" limiter of sorts. Players like being accompished at something, so making something difficult one can excel at where others can't is just a basic thing. Another to note here is variation, making things different solely for the sake of them being different.

Yes, for all intents and purposes a game could allow a player to "toggle" a held trigger or automatic weapon so that tapping once starts the firing and tapping again stops it. They could allow a player to just turn automatic firearms into semi-automatic firearms and to do the reverse. But they don't, outside of either heavily limited or niche cases. Allowing everything to be utilized in the same manner takes away from the reason these differences exist in the first place, to create diversity amongst gear selection across a given playerbase.

If everyone can get the firing mechanics they prefer most on any weapon without limitation, then most every player will merely choose weaons based on their statistical capabilities and nothing more. Even in a game which has varied mechanics there are already going to be a large portion of players who solely "lemming" their way towards the current meta/best pieces of gear. Removing variety among weapon mechanics also removes any reason players may have to not use a given weapon.

Long story short, even as someone who normally likes toggle options to assist in the enjoyment others can have, I cannot support this idea. Doesn't mean I'm right of course, but as stated above I have very clear and understandable reasons for this stance.

Edit; typos because who cares about proof-reading.

Here's where I disagree with you-- DE allows the use of macros. Macros can be used to alter a trigger, although it takes a bit of work. Using macro doesn't break the game any more than it already allows, and I'm guessing that's why they're allowed. If DE is indirectly giving this functionality to change up triggers to players, why would / should they not add such functions for weapons that get enough attention?

Diversity is good in a game-- I agree, but I don't think the mechanics should come from awkward controls-- it's like if a game forced someone's WASD to be inverted, rather than having something else differentiating the movement, like accelerated movement, low gravity, etc.

Another analogy would be one of the shotguns from BL2-- the Interfacer. What made that gun unique and made people either love it or hate it was not because it forced some arbitrary and unintuitive control restriction on the player, but because it fired all of its shots in a super wide spread, and converged at a very specific set distance. That's where I think mechanics should come into a gun. Easy to use, and very hard to master. All you had to do was aim and click like any other gun, but the mechanics that came after the trigger pull diversified it. Easy to use-- hard to master. Not frustrating to use-- frustrating to master.

Edited August 20, 2015 by HolidayPi3

[Bobtm]

Here's where I disagree with you-- DE allows the use of macros. Macros can be used to alter a trigger, although it takes a bit of work. Using macro doesn't break the game any more than it already allows, and I'm guessing that's why they're allowed. If DE is indirectly giving this functionality to change up triggers to players, why would / should they not add such functions for weapons that get enough attention?

Diversity is good in a game-- I agree, but I don't think the mechanics should come from awkward controls-- it's like if a game forced someone's WASD to be inverted, rather than having something else differentiating the movement, like accelerated movement, low gravity, etc.

Another analogy would be one of the shotguns from BL2-- the Interfacer. What made that gun unique and made people either love it or hate it was not because it forced some arbitrary and unintuitive control restriction on the player, but because it fired all of its shots in a super wide spread, and converged at a very specific set distance. That's where I think mechanics should come into a gun. Easy to use, and very hard to master. All you had to do was aim and click like any other gun, but the mechanics that came after the trigger pull diversified it. Easy to use-- hard to master. Not frustrating to use-- frustrating to master.

 

From my understanding of the macro situation, they're allowed to players who need the assistance due to some form of physical limitation.  It's there for folks who need it to alleviate pain or other actual issues rather than to allow everyone to use anything the way they just want.  That's why the macros are allowed but the option to customize the types of firing don't exist in the actual game itself.

 

I do understand where you're coming from of course, but all the same it doesn't change my stance.  Just as above though it doesn't mean I'm right, but it's how I see it.

[HolidayPi3]

From my understanding of the macro situation, they're allowed to players who need the assistance due to some form of physical limitation.  It's there for folks who need it to alleviate pain or other actual issues rather than to allow everyone to use anything the way they just want.  That's why the macros are allowed but the option to customize the types of firing don't exist in the actual game itself.

 

I do understand where you're coming from of course, but all the same it doesn't change my stance.  Just as above though it doesn't mean I'm right, but it's how I see it.

 

Aye-- I can see the merits of both viewpoints, as I think you can as well. A good place to agree to disagree, no?

[JuanDeages]

In my opinion duplex should go to alt-fire, and semi-auto to primary.

This.

[JuanDeages]

A: it keeps the weapon and its usage in check

B: it keeps the kiddies running to the new post U17 buff super weapon in check

C: the only people complaining about it is the new users that is now using it post buff

D: if it really bugs the people that much then they should find another weapon, I refuse to use the Soma due to its firecracker firing sound, should the sound department go change that just because there is people like me that also hate the sound the soma makes?

It doesn't keep anyone "in check." I liked the semi-auto fire for junk troops/early game. As is, the Hek is easier to use, and does the same damage per shell, unless you drop ammo stock/tactical pump for more damage, in which case its damage per shot is a bit higher.

Moral of the story, those of us that didn't use it before will just use the Hek, just as DE intended I guess.

[Insizer]

No, keep the duplex-auto it is fine where it is. It adds character.

[ThePredicament]

When did double barrel shotguns ever need to have something to "add character"?

 

It's a poor handling double barreled shotgun, ala Doom 2 Super Shotgun's dumb awkward cousin.

[(PSN)Cerata_]

Can we just get rid of the awkward delay before the weapon reloads? It would feel way less clunky that way. Forcing the reload works, but it's a pain.

[superbot34]

NO it's fine the way it is, i have my secondary fire mode set to C which would make this impossible to use if they remove it. 

[Mac2492]

I'm in favor of keeping alt-fire off this weapon. A lot of people are arguing that "diversity is better" and "it doesn't hurt anybody".

 

 

Let me get one thing out of the way.

YES, game developers want their game to be accessible. As much as possible, they should avoid convoluted mechanics that hamper experiences.

 

However, this is not the minor change that many make it out to be.

 

Too many people are arguing that a semi-auto firing mode is a "quality of life" change. It is much more than that. The duplex firing mechanism was designed with a certain experience and playstyle in mind. Did it succeed? Maybe, maybe not. Adding semi-auto fire isn't just changing the controls, but rather changing the overall feel of the weapon (because a new control path is opened). Controls are a huge part of user experience and many people would be surprised by how much effort goes into designing it. By opening up a new path you indeed accomodate more people, but you also draw traffic away from the old path. Whether this is desirable is truly up to the designer. You are free to experience it "however you want", but the designer is equally free to control pathways and barriers to coincide with their vision.

 

Think of it as a piece of art. As an artist, you have a certain idea for how your piece will be experienced. People will inevitably experience it in different ways (and this is a beautiful thing), but there are some variables that artist might want to "lock down". There are certain things that "must be", not because of logic, but because that is the artist's vision. A chef might have you eat with your hands. If you eat the meal with a fork it "doesn't hurt anybody", but you violate the experience that the chef has envisioned. Expecting art to conform to your tastes is selfish, for lack of a better word. As stated before, you are free to interact with the world as you wish. Just realize that sometimes things are the way they are because some person goshdarn wanted it that way, and that's all there is to it.

 

 

Now with that said, games are an art but the distribution and sale of games is a business. As such, game companies need to take in feedback and respond appropriately while trying not to lose track of the art (take Guitar Hero and Call of Duty, for example). This is why bugs need to be fixed, quality of life changes implemented, balance adjustments made, and so forth. I completely understand everyone's concern about the control mechanism of the Tigris. Even I feel the controls are unintuitive to most players and recommend the Hek for this reason.

 

Why am I opposed to changing the controls? Personal preference, really. I feel like the duplex-auto trigger encourages a different playstyle from every other shotgun. If you want shotgun that's very similar statistically with "normal" controls, the Hek is available. This allows the Tigris to be incredibly unique and powerful. I think if semi-auto is incorporated then many people would miss out on this experience because they wouldn't give it a chance, and if people dislike the controls then they can "eat somewhere else" so to speak.

 

I don't think you guys are stupid or wrong at all for wanting the Tigris changed. What you're asking for makes sense. I simply feel the designers had something in mind when designing this control mechanism. It's awkward at first but not as bad as people make it out to be (and quite intuitive once you get the hang of it). Allowing for a different playstyle at this point feels like a cop-out, and I respect designers who stick to their guns. Warframe has a lot of design flaws that could use tuning but this ain't one of them.

 

tldr; The Tigris controls are awkward, but they feel intentionally awkward. Allowing for a different control scheme is more than a quality of life change. It's bypassing the intended vision of the weapon. Duplex-auto isn't truly inconveniencing players (except for the guy with hand cramps, condolences), but rather creating a divide in their preferences. These splits are more interesting than harmful, and as such it's really up to DE if they want to change the overall design of the weapon. Yes, adding semi-auto is significantly changing the design of the weapon.

[RealPandemonium]

As is, the Hek is easier to use, and does the same damage per shell

Tigris has twice as much base damage.  Are you incorporating the syndicate mod and/or Accel Blast into this comparison?

 

preceding post

Thanks for being more eloquent than I could be on this matter.

 

People need to understand that a weapon does not exist to be popular or exploitable (though they can be;) different weapons and warframes exist to add different flavors to the game.  Too many of the changes proposed on this forum are appeals for blanket buffs and sameness among weapons/frames, typically because "I spent the time to grind for this weapon but ended up not liking it," never mind that there is usually a dedicated group of players that use those weapons/frames regularly and have a better idea of what changes they may need if any.  If you don't like a particular flavor of gameplay then find another.  Don't clamor to try to change something on your whim, especially if other players make it work for them.  This game has hundreds of available equipment options for a reason.

Edited August 21, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[ThePredicament]

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it:

The duplex system was utilized because there wasn't an alternate fire in U11, not even a zoom replacement alt fire. Zoom alt fire wasn't introduced until the Mutalist Quanta which was release in U13.8, half a year after the Tigris was released. A real alt fire wasn't introduced until recently, almost two years after it was released. It's not some "let's make it special" type deal, it's a workaround.

 

There still hasn't been a real argument opposing against alt fire single barrel, simple as that.

Edited August 21, 2015 by TheLocalHentai

[RealPandemonium]

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it:

The duplex system was utilized because there wasn't an alternate fire in U11, not even a zoom replacement alt fire. Zoom alt fire wasn't introduced until the Mutalist Quanta which was release in U13.8, half a year after the Tigris was released. A real alt fire wasn't introduced until recently, almost two years after it was released. It's not some "let's make it special" type deal, it's a workaround.

 

There still hasn't been a real argument opposing against alt fire single barrel, simple as that.

You have yet to provide evidence that indicates that the duplex-auto mechanic was introduced as workaround, by the way.  

[Bobtm]

Aye-- I can see the merits of both viewpoints, as I think you can as well. A good place to agree to disagree, no?

 

This we can agree on.  There's no real/right answer here in a broad sense, so at the end of the day all we (everyone here) can do is just voice our own thoughts and see how it plays out.

 

Jesus, how many times do I have to say it:

The duplex system was utilized because there wasn't an alternate fire in U11, not even a zoom replacement alt fire. Zoom alt fire wasn't introduced until the Mutalist Quanta which was release in U13.8, half a year after the Tigris was released. A real alt fire wasn't introduced until recently, almost two years after it was released. It's not some "let's make it special" type deal, it's a workaround.

 

There still hasn't been a real argument opposing against alt fire single barrel, simple as that.

 

This is not true at all.  Do not make up facts purely to support your argument.

 

The Zoom alt fire was introduced long before the Quanta, the first weapon to utilize this functionality was the Penta, released in... wait for it here, U11.  And guess what you claimed otherwise?  To be specific the Penta was U11.3 and the Tigris was added in U11 itself.  If what you claim is true they would've either waited to release the Tigris or changed it just that short while later.

 

The Tigris was desinged specifically to have a unique trigger mechanic, period.

Edited August 21, 2015 by Bobtm

[auxy]

Put me down as a huge duplex-trigger lover. I think it's awesome and I have always loved the Tigris. Easily my favorite primary ever since it came out. It reminds me of the old game Blood, my favorite FPS.

[HolidayPi3]

-snip-

 

I'm not going to try to argue with you here-- because I think you bring up an interesting debate that is artistic vision vs player choice. This is a very similar argument that people used for when it was ambiguous as to whether or not we should be able to color prime parts. I would say there is so much more solid foundation to say that primed stuff should be and only be golden-- however DE allowed players to change the colors of their primes, and they're going back and adding more and more of that functionality. All the same, we could have argued that not being able to zoom in was an equalizer for weapons with alt-fire, but that was changed because... so few people liked it. However like you and Bobtm have stated, the ball is really in DE's court.

 

More on topic though-- you state (in the TL;DR, which I can totally understand this being a mis-wording) that the Tigris is "intentionally awkward" and it's creating an interesting player split. I definitely agree that it's creating an interesting player split. I'm speaking purely as someone who can work with both trigger mechanisms whether or not a change happens, so it's interesting to see the arguments on both sides. Do you really think that DE intended for it to feel awkward? Or do you think that the awkwardness was just a byproduct of them wanting it to have a unique trigger mechanism? Not trying to egg you on or anything, either-- I'm genuinely curious.

Edited August 21, 2015 by HolidayPi3

[JuanDeages]

Tigris has twice as much base damage.  Are you incorporating the syndicate mod and/or Accel Blast into this comparison?

 

It has twice as much base damage to compensate for its lack of the syndicate mod. I will provide some example builds. Note that I consider Seeking Fury to be core to both weapons.

 

Hek:

 

http://goo.gl/mThMz6

 

 

Tigris:

 

http://goo.gl/mT4NNH

 

 

I consider these to be fairly standard builds, would you agree? If you compare the damage per shot, burst, and sustained values, they are very similar, but they are mostly in the Hek's favor. The Tigris does a little more damage per shell with sweeping serration vs a 90% elemental. The quality of life that the semi-auto gave to the Tigris allowed it to be in closer contention with the Hek, while still allowing the flavor of choice. Imo, the Hek is just the superior option now, which is a shame, because the style the Tigris has is pretty cool.

 

Basically, what I'm trying to say, is the Tigris & the Hek, was like the Soma Prime and the Boltor Prime. If they just gutted the Soma, everyone would just use the Boltor. Why do we need less choice? That's not to say the Tigris does poor damage, but its biggest downfall is usability, and as quickly as it was given, it was taken away.

Edited August 21, 2015 by JuanDeages

[Bobtm]

This whole discussion has actually caused me to become a little curious of something about the Tigris, or rather Duplex-Auto in a general sense.  Because of these thoughts I'd like to pose a question to those of you who wish to see this weapon changed;

 

What specifically is so awkward / unintuitive about Duplex-Auto to you?

 

On a personal level I can't quite relate to how folks have any issue with this particular firing mechanic.  If it's based on "having to hold the trigger" then how would anyone go about utilizing any of the many weapons with a Charge type trigger mechanic?  On the Tigris you never have to hold the trigger for any longer than you would/should when utilizing something like a Bow, the Lanka, or the Opticor.  Even beyond that if you're going to be firing at two nearby targets you'll be holding the trigger for even less time.  Flipping things around if you weren't intending to fire that second shot then merely reloading before releasing the trigger will do this, again this follows suit with how all of the Charge weapons operate.

 

Mind you I'm not asking this in an attempt to make light of the issues held by those of you in favor of changing the Tigris.  But at the same time I cannot comprehend this notion at a core level merely because I am personally detached from this viewpoint you folks have in the largest possible way.  When approaching these sorts of debates it's good to get a clear understanding of where the other parties are coming from.

 

At the end of the day I'll be honest here;  I don't want to see the Tigris gain a secondary fire mechanic which fires one shot.  That said if it happens, it happens, and I'd accept that as the new norm.  However there is one very odd notion that's risen up in this and other threads regarding the Tigris that is in absolutely poor form, the push to have the primary fire become a semi-auto.

 

If you're in favor of changing the Tigris' primary fire mechanic from Duplex-auto to Semi-auto then, rather than being subjective, you're 100% in the wrong.  It would be the same if I, purely by my own bias, lodged for the Soma to be made into a Semi-auto weapon by primary firing mechanic only because I hate automatic weapons.  If I were to do that I'd be wrong, end of discussion.  The back and forth of extra options/mechanics is one where right and wrong don't exist.  But having the main mode of something shifted only because one side doesn't care for the others' preferences is not the same.

[TallyWackerOne]

To be completly honest, i disagree massively on the tigris change. This had been a weapon i recently picked up to toy around with and really enjoyed the idea of a double barrel shotgun. Not a burst fire weapon, there's a reason most people dont touch the burst weapons in the game, they are quick to lose ammo and it's harder to control especially because it's a shotgun. Now when i use it, the first shot kills the target and the second shot just makes it so i just have to reload. Shame i put 6 formas into the thing just to not find it good anymore. Could we at least make it shoot once and have a delay to the second shot, then reload? Thanks for reading!

[HolidayPi3]

This whole discussion has actually caused me to become a little curious of something about the Tigris, or rather Duplex-Auto in a general sense.  Because of these thoughts I'd like to pose a question to those of you who wish to see this weapon changed;

 

 

What specifically is so awkward / unintuitive about Duplex-Auto to you?

 

 

I probably don't speak for everyone-- but I use the Opticor and Bows quite often, so holding is something I'm used to. That being said-- the gameplay between the Opticor and Bows is wildly different than Tigris gameplay for me in the sense that when I hold a Bow's charge or Opticor's charge, I'm usually zoomed in already and lined up for a shot.

 

With the Tigris, after I zoom in and fire the first shot, I have to continue holding, and then let go of my left finger to stop zooming, while keeping my finger down on the trigger, retarget, then zoom back in. This combination of juggling holding on and off with both mouse buttons feels odd in comparison to other weapons, but I've found that I've gotten used to it, and it really isn't an issue anymore. Since I run punch through on every weapon, I usually just manual reload. Or since I play Mirage, I passive fast-roll.

 

That being said, I'm probably an extremely odd case in the sense that I ADS very often with every weapon (yes... even the Brakk), and try for headshots even when I reaaaaalllyyy shouldn't. Hence why I'm only speaking for myself here-- I hope this tickles your curiosity? x)

Edited August 21, 2015 by HolidayPi3

[Mac2492]

I'm not going to try to argue with you here-- because I think you bring up an interesting debate that is artistic vision vs player choice. This is a very similar argument that people used for when it was ambiguous as to whether or not we should be able to color prime parts. I would say there is so much more solid foundation to say that primed stuff should be and only be golden-- however DE allowed players to change the colors of their primes, and they're going back and adding more and more of that functionality. All the same, we could have argued that not being able to zoom in was an equalizer for weapons with alt-fire, but that was changed because... so few people liked it. However like you and Bobtm have stated, the ball is really in DE's court.

 

More on topic though-- you state (in the TL;DR, which I can totally understand this being a mis-wording) that the Tigris is "intentionally awkward" and it's creating an interesting player split. I definitely agree that it's creating an interesting player split. I'm speaking purely as someone who can work with both trigger mechanisms whether or not a change happens, so it's interesting to see the arguments on both sides. Do you really think that DE intended for it to feel awkward? Or do you think that the awkwardness was just a byproduct of them wanting it to have a unique trigger mechanism? Not trying to egg you on or anything, either-- I'm genuinely curious.

To be honest, the Tigris fit me like a glove from the first time I used it. I just want to understand as many viewpoints as possible. For me it's less important to be "right" and more important to see as many sides as possible. If people say duplex-auto is uncomfortable, I'll take all my experiences with shotguns in video games, read through their complaints, then try to feel for myself the discomfort that they feel.

 

I can't speak for DE, but I don't believe they (directly) intended the Tigris to feel awkward. I think they intended it to feel different, which inevitably made it awkward as a byproduct. As designers they may have even done this knowingly. There's already a pretty solid standard for how a shotgun should feel and control in video games. In general, you want boom boom at close/mid-range and a somewhat lack-luster long range. One click, one boom. The more you deviate from this, the more players coming from other shooters will feel something off. As such, I believe it's more a byproduct the unique trigger mechanism than anything else. That's why so many people clamor for the old and trusty semi-auto trigger.

 

"Why should I hold the trigger to delay the shot? No other shotgun makes me do this."

 

And it makes sense. At the same time, I don't believe duplex-auto and semi-auto could exist on the Tigris without defeating the spirit of the weapon. That's my simple opinion on the design, not a fact. Once you allow people to bypass the strange trigger mechanism, you really allow them to bypass a large part of what makes the weapon unique. You can only differentiate so much in terms of stats and aesthetics for a hitscan weapon, but once you venture into unique mechanics and control schemes there's far more room to go right or wrong. In this case it seems like DE's hit a resounding ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

[Bobtm]

I probably don't speak for everyone-- but I use the Opticor and Bows quite often, so holding is something I'm used to. That being said-- the gameplay between the Opticor and Bows is wildly different than Tigris gameplay for me in the sense that when I hold a Bow's charge or Opticor's charge, I'm usually zoomed in already and lined up for a shot.

 

With the Tigris, after I zoom in and fire the first shot, I have to continue holding, and then let go of my left finger to stop zooming, while keeping my finger down on the trigger, retarget, then zoom back in. This combination of holding on both my mouse buttons feels odd in comparison to other weapons, but I've found that I've gotten used to it, and it really isn't an issue anymore. Since I run punch through on every weapon, I usually just manual reload. Or since I play Mirage, I passive fast-roll.

 

That being said, I'm probably an extremely odd case in the sense that I ADS very often with every weapon (yes... even the Brakk), and try for headshots even when I reaaaaalllyyy shouldn't. Hence why I'm only speaking for myself here-- I hope this tickles your curiosity? x)

 

This... it's shockingly enlightening despite being a seemingly small detail on a playstyle.  Before I drone on further I'll say thanks for answering.

 

I'm actually genuinely surprised yet at the same time things make a great deal more sense to me now on this issue, at least in a theoretical sense.  I'm the kind of player who very, very rarely finds myself using ADS for most anything unless I'm dawdling about in a low level mission.  When using a Charge weapon for instance I never* ADS during a charge.  However even if I can't see through the eyes of other players I can still see whether or not they're ADSing based on observing movement speeds.

 

*Never say never, it would be more accurate to say I maybe ADS during a charge around 1/80 times.  It doesn't happen often, but it technically isn't never.

 

Now I do have to take into account that there are those who use a controller, but aside that a player cannot merely walk in Warframe.  Because of this it's really easy to tell, at a glance, whether or not someone is utilizing ADS a lot.  And I tend to see a very large number of players make use of ADS (that's not a bad thing, it's just a playstyle preference).  But I can actually get the vibe here, where having to mess with which mouse button is held giving the Tigris a "clunky" feel which is commonly how those for this change describe it.

 

I still hold to the same stance on the broad issue as I've stated before.  But this information helps me to really understand where others are coming from in notably more clear way.