What I Find To Be Wrong With Conclave.

[(XBOX)G R A V O C]

Before I begin, I wanted to let you guys know a little bit about my PVP/FPS/TPS 'resume'. I have been playing PVP style games since 007 Goldeneye on Nitendo 64, and worked my way up from Timesplitters (oh the memories). Then when I got a little more serious about my play, I took on the following games: Call of Duty, Halo, Battlefield, Rainbow Six, and Destiny. So I would say I am well versed in the various styles of PVP.

So time for what I believe is wrong with Conclave:

Faulty Melee hit boxes - Similar to trying to melee a PVE target while on stairs for example, you just hit an invisible wall between the AI/player and the hotbox. This makes the use of melee way too much of a gamble. I will only ever melee players if they are cornered on a FLAT plane, or if I stun them.

Invisible player walls gives Bows the advantage - What I mean by this is due to invisibile walls around AI and players (the reason you cannot walk through opponents), bow players will beat melee in CLOSE QUARTERS nearly every time. I find myself getting stuck on players while meleeing them, and then they sink me with an arrow or two and I am down. If you think about a real world situation, a bowman has the advantage at range. However, a swordsman has advantage in close quarters, especially at point blank range.

Finisher damage is not high enough - I should not have to stun an enemy, finish them, and then proceed to fight them again after they get up.

Lack of weapon balancing - MK1's being better than prime. Enough said.

Lack of hit registration, even though the game shows a 'hit'. I wish I could find the link to the video - but I saw a video about a month ago that shows a player inflicting 350 damage onto an opponent, uninterrupted, and the opponent had only lost his shields. I've myself encountered this multiple times. As a long time PVP player, you start to learn to gauge how long it takes to kill an opponent. It becomes second nature to know when to stop shooting and to move on. However, in Warframe, I find myself constantly having to put way more bullets than are needed to down an opponent.

4th ability 'ultimates' are not earned - All players have to do is dodge opponents and run around the map collecting energy spawns. A great example is most Ash players will avoid conflicts until their Bladestorm is ready. I am not saying that ultimates need to be removed or nerfed. What I am saying is that they need to be earned through performance, and not merely picked up off of the ground.

Too many abilities - As if each Warframe having a super was not enough. The issue I see is that players will only use certain abilities, and completely avoid ever using the others. This is a problem when you have frames who can be effective with all 4 of their abilities, and then you have frames who can only be effective with their 4th, and also most expensive ability. With the number of frames and number of abilities, it just becomes impossibly hard to balance, especially when you incorporate the fact that all of the abilities cost a different amount of energy.

Lack of Game modes - 3 game modes is not enough to entertain a wide variety audience

1, 2, and 3 abilities being more effective than 4 - A great example is Excalibur and Slash Dash. Slash Dash significantly damages AND stuns an enemy, and can be quickly finished off with 2-3 melee swings before the stun even ends. This also only costs 25 energy per cast. Excalibur Exalted Blade is significantly more expensive to use, and can hardly grant a kill when used. Energy prices need to scale to a skills usability and effectiveness.

[Lordricker]

Wow you put a lot into one post. Much of what you said is true but the game is still beta and under heavy balancing issues after every hotfix. There are many posts about the broken overpowered stuff. 

 

Also bows are pretty terrible for anything further than 15m because of flight time. Bows might be long range in real life but people dont move around like the tenno ninjas do.

[HoakinBlackforge]

I feel sorry for you, but i think you must complain more to microsoft for update delay than to DE.

 

<3

 

 

JK, many of the things you talk about are true, right now pvp is an unbalanced messy pile of *******.

 

But, just as it happened with pvp 1.0, the devs just "threw" it out for the playerbase hungry for content to get distracted. It will take time to get all things ready an balanced.

[elele]

4th ability 'ultimates' are not earned - All players have to do is dodge opponents and run around the map collecting energy spawns. A great example is most Ash players will avoid conflicts until their Bladestorm is ready. I am not saying that ultimates need to be removed or nerfed. What I am saying is that they need to be earned through performance, and not merely picked up off of the ground.

 

All the time spent dodging and running away is time not spent on killing, i.e. time not spent on earning affinity. If a player wants to waste half of the match time doing nothing and earning 500xp in the end, instead of actively killing and earning 1500xp in the end, for the useless boost to his KD which nobody would actually see since it's hidden underneath three layers of "player profile" menus, it's his choice.

 

Unwise choice, I'd say. I've seen very few sane players doing this.

 

 

Seems like you want COD-style killstreaks/scorestreaks for abilities. -- In Warframe's PVP, the skill gap between good players and bad players is already big. Not sure you'd like another level of snowballing on top of that:

 

what I'm saying is, a killstreak system will only benefit that guy that's doing 27:2 in a match, not anyone else.  

[Aggh]

The sections on melee make no sense to me.  Melee is obnoxiously effective atm and is the furthest thing from being a gamble. Maybe this is unique to xbox or something.

 

There's no reason for primes to be better than anything (even though most of them are) 'nuff said.

 

Also, it's very hard to take this seriously when he's saying exalted blade is bad.

Edited September 2, 2015 by Aggh

[sappinmahsentry]

Slash dash deals almost no damage now.

[Stormdragon]

There's no reason for primes to be better than anything (even though most of them are) 'nuff said.

Agree, an mk1 that can be bought simply using credits can't be obscured by one that has to be done with farmed resources. Don't even think about both of them gettin shaded by a weapon that has to be farmed only in special missions, with a few prayers to RNG or trading with other players who usually ask for platinum (i've seen really few players accepting trades)

[Aggh]

Agree, an mk1 that can be bought simply using credits can't be obscured by one that has to be done with farmed resources. Don't even think about both of them gettin shaded by a weapon that has to be farmed only in special missions, with a few prayers to RNG or trading with other players who usually ask for platinum (i've seen really few players accepting trades)

 

Yes.  Players shouldn't be given crutches in pvp as a reward for time spent grinding in PvE.  Beating someone in PvP should be a product of playing better than them, not having better gear.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Aggh

[AlphaSierraMike]

Yes.  Players shouldn't be given crutches in pvp as a reward for time spent grinding in PvE.  Beating someone in PvP should be a product of playing better than them, not having better gear.

 

I know I had hopes that PvP would be more skill focused.... But being a F2P game and a massive arsenal of weapons, it's nearly impossible to balance every weapon and combinations of weapons, not to mention the existence of abilities and stagger that straight up give an advantage to the user with next to no downsides, which in PvE it's ok, because it's power fantasy against AI. But in PvP it's just a cop out way of getting free easy kills, just like Killstreaks. Skills aren't relevant in the current metagame, nor will it ever be any time soon, as long as you catch someone in a stagger or hide behind a one way cover. Besides, I found that most people play just for the bloody Rep anyway, they sure as hell don't care about actually playing the game.

 

They could make a playlist with fixed loadouts that were specifically balanced so that they are equal in effectiveness, placing every player on equal ground. But that would discourage players buying weapons using plat.

 

Granted, I'm the type of person that can't get off with kills done by something else or handed to me on a silver platter, so I pretty much hate killstreaks and offensive vehicles in any game, whether that be the killstreaks in CoD or ordinance drops in Halo 4. That's one thing that irritated me about vanilla Halo 4, when half the lobby can have a power up/weapon at once, like 3 SR users, and 4 Rockets and its derivatives. It's not fun nor does it take skill, it's just whoever ends up with the better/easier to use power weapon and shoot first wins, just like most abilities, whoever farts out an ability in panic first determines the winner, most of the time. It's like clashing in Injustice, oh you picked a lower amount of energy than your opponent? Well bad luck I'm taking a third of your health.

[IceColdas]

I found PvP to be based on skill a lot. I felt successful using shotguns, rifles, pistols and SMGs. My melee weapon of choice is the Kestrel. I'm building the Simulor and I'm going to at least try to use it in PvP. Abilities don't feel that dominant, and those that did have been adjusted accordingly so far.

 

For the hit registration, it seems to be accurate most of the time (I tend to host games a lot, I might be biased), though I had a few occasions where I thought I had dealt more damage than I really did, but that might be an issue with shotguns; Who knows how many pellets you really hit. This happens in TF2 as well, really.

 

Lack of weapon balancing - MK1's being better than prime. Enough said.

 

Prime or any other variant of a base weapon should really only give alternative playstyles using the same weapon (Mk 1 Paris drawing back faster but less damage, seems fair enough), or be identical to the original. But never have upgraded stats like some do now. They need to be changed, in my opinion. Still, most numbers are so close to each other, that it hardly matters anyway. (I saw the Penta's alternative had double fire rate and more damage. Please no...)

[Joblock]

Killstreaks? KILLSTREAKS!? Do you know what this is!? These guys co-developed Unreal Tournament. They want no part in making this game Ninja COD. They even said it themselves. I see where you are coming from, but your console infested resume is hardly fit for telling people what makes a game good. I see no Counter Strike, Team Fortress, or UT2004 in there anywhere, all of which would convince me of your competitive intentions. Right now, the game already has energy that slowly regenerates over time, as well as pickups. This, coupled with the abilities being nerfed to the point of being merely supplementary unless timed perfectly, makes for a much more fair experience, without the rich getting richer. This game will only get more similar to UT.

 

On another, less hostile, more informative note,they do intend on adding more gamemodes that are attack/ defense oriented, making abilities that you would deem 'useless' more applicable. I could see valkyr getting more offensive use, riplining up to a tower, then beserking through the defensive ranks contained within. Frames like ash could teleport up to a player holding a position and dispatch camper frames like chroma, frost, and vauban.

 

Now to transition back to hostility, you need to git gud. Get your butt kicked. It's going to happen. If you quit, you won't learn. I played tenaciously, and I got very good. You can, too.

[Skiddybike81273]

So in terms of Pvp I find that in terms of primary and secondary weapons are pretty well balanced and require some level of skill to use.Melee on the other hands mainly the heavy and throwing weapons need a slight balance example Jetkatag and maybe the galatine as for warframes most abilities are easily avoided. I speak from playing on both Xbox1 and PC I would recommend to just jumping in and not worry about being killed also find a set up that works for you.

[-InV-igo95862]

 

Now to transition back to hostility, you need to git gud. Get your butt kicked. It's going to happen. If you quit, you won't learn. I played tenaciously, and I got very good. You can, too.

 

Watch this video:

 

 

it perfectly predicts what Conclave 1.0 was. "Small community of veterans that churning through the new players at the alarming rate."

 

Your agenda of "git gud or quit" will only hurt the game.