The Warframe Market Is A Joke And Actively Discourages Impulse Purchases (Updated, Includes Solution To Installed Catalysts/weapon Slot On Weapons)

[Kiteless]

I'd also like to add that, by and large, people's spending on entertainment costs don't really fluctuate that much. That is to say, you can raise or lower the prices as much as you want, people will tend to spend the same amount. By lowering the platinum costs of the market, current platinum spenders will probably end up spending as much money as they did before, but you'll lower the bar of entry for people who want to spend less money, and everyone will end up being more satisfied with their purchases in the end.

[Raptros]

I think that last image is a good idea.

 

I don't really oppose the high prices, I can understand them to a degree.

 

But the option to buy just the gun without the tater and slot is a neat idea. Could bump the cost down a bit.

 

+1

[Bakim0n0]

How long are we going to keep beating a dead horse. Does anyone really think they are saying anything new that wasn't covered in the previous 16 pages?

[[DE]Rebecca]

Likely relevant if you haven't seen this already: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/55421-update-8-related-work/

[Hafilgar]

How long are we going to keep beating a dead horse. Does anyone really think they are saying anything new that wasn't covered in the previous 16 pages?

Better having this sensible thread up on the front page than 50 new smaller ones all the time just simply complaining about market prices without solid suggestions

[cknives]

Better having this sensible thread up on the front page than 50 new smaller ones all the time just simply complaining about market prices without solid suggestions

agreed, OP put in good effort. This is probably the best thread on the subject

[W4RM4CHIN3]

:o

[WhiteCopain]

i love that the stalker pack costs so much tbh

it's supposed to be something special that you ar supposed to obtain the "legit" way

and it's not just reskins

the stalker kunai even have different models

also different stats  and even some special effects like being more or less effective on certain enemies or the dread having higher velocity projectiles

skins are models. Something having a different model is a Reskin. The point being is they are the same weapon, just the one you buy (or farm unreasonably long for) is stronger.

[Ameretat]

I agree that the costs are a little high as they currently stand, however this may have been due to DE simply having needed the resources during the early stages of their development.The growth this game has shown may have surprised even them.

 

However, reducing the cost of items/platinum now could have a serious backlash to people who have ALREADY bought platinum or items in the past, which, imho, cuts out 'slashing prices permanently' HOWEVER, the idea of sales, REAL proper sales is a good idea, and should be considered by DE as a good compromise.

[Hafilgar]

I agree that the costs are a little high as they currently stand, however this may have been due to DE simply having needed the resources during the early stages of their development.The growth this game has shown may have surprised even them.

 

However, reducing the cost of items/platinum now could have a serious backlash to people who have ALREADY bought platinum or items in the past, which, imho, cuts out 'slashing prices permanently' HOWEVER, the idea of sales, REAL proper sales is a good idea, and should be considered by DE as a good compromise.

DESteve said you can win 30%-50% off plat coupons on daily log in rewards some time in the near future (that are actually useable). He said there wont be any drastic changes to market, but gradual ones. But I think you may be right, they seem like they're leaning more towards seasonal sales rather than a market overhaul....which makes me a little sad though :c

[cknives]

DESteve said you can win 30%-50% off plat coupons on daily log in rewards some time in the near future (that are actually useable). He said there wont be any drastic changes to market, but gradual ones. But I think you may be right, they seem like they're leaning more towards seasonal sales rather than a market overhaul....which makes me a little sad though :c

Because that's the easy way.

[fauxhb]

DESteve said you can win 30%-50% off plat coupons on daily log in rewards some time in the near future (that are actually useable). He said there wont be any drastic changes to market, but gradual ones. But I think you may be right, they seem like they're leaning more towards seasonal sales rather than a market overhaul....which makes me a little sad though :c

maybe buying a on-sale skana would cheer you up? sorry, kidding, kidding

[Hafilgar]

Because that's the easy way.

Indeed. They got so many issues to deal with now so it seems that they're dishing out quick and inefficient methods to solve them

 

maybe buying a on-sale skana would cheer you up? sorry, kidding, kidding

I actually bought the dual skanas when it was on sale :P (you know...for leveling mastery)

....of course with creds only. Who in their right mind would pa yplat for a weapon that is outranked by Dual Ethers.

[PatiqForLife]

omg the OP almost got 500 likes XD

[IspanoLFW1]

I agree that the costs are a little high as they currently stand, however this may have been due to DE simply having needed the resources during the early stages of their development.The growth this game has shown may have surprised even them.

 

However, reducing the cost of items/platinum now could have a serious backlash to people who have ALREADY bought platinum or items in the past, which, imho, cuts out 'slashing prices permanently' HOWEVER, the idea of sales, REAL proper sales is a good idea, and should be considered by DE as a good compromise.

 

Nah, Models and Skins are different things. Despair has a different model. If it was a different skin, the shape would be exactly the same, and they're not.

[BarbaricKai]

Hrm I skipped most of the 18 pages of comments so I apologize if someone else has made this point.

 

Coming from a fine dining background I have learned that you should always know 3 wines very well (from each type) a cheaper wine, a middle of the road wine, and a very high end wine. The reason for this is that you want to be able to cater to all your clientele and up-sell regardless of if they are looking to spend $100 or $1,000.

 

Warframe does a very poor job of up-selling to the lower end and even the middle tier of their clientele. The current prices on frames and weapons especially the Stalker pack can be seen as higher end oriented and while some of that is good since some people have no problem spending that much money they are alienating a large chunk of potential buyers.

 

The original posters prices are fair to an extent but he makes the mistake of neglecting the more affluent members of the Warframe community who have no problem spending a large amount of money for something exclusive.

 

Basically I just want the Devs to adjust the prices on some items so everyone can feel good spending money to support the game or have some major 50-75% off sales every now and then

[Rabcor]

+_+

 

You said it all. good post!

Edited May 31, 2013 by Rabcor

[Mak_Gohae]

Hrm I skipped most of the 18 pages of comments so I apologize if someone else has made this point.

 

Coming from a fine dining background I have learned that you should always know 3 wines very well (from each type) a cheaper wine, a middle of the road wine, and a very high end wine. The reason for this is that you want to be able to cater to all your clientele and up-sell regardless of if they are looking to spend $100 or $1,000.

 

Warframe does a very poor job of up-selling to the lower end and even the middle tier of their clientele. The current prices on frames and weapons especially the Stalker pack can be seen as higher end oriented and while some of that is good since some people have no problem spending that much money they are alienating a large chunk of potential buyers.

 

The original posters prices are fair to an extent but he makes the mistake of neglecting the more affluent members of the Warframe community who have no problem spending a large amount of money for something exclusive.

 

Basically I just want the Devs to adjust the prices on some items so everyone can feel good spending money to support the game or have some major 50-75% off sales every now and then

 

This is because the lower and middle tier are covered with the free option.

You NEED people to be running those missions for the folks that dont want to pay.

[Rednaxela1337]

-UPDATED-

After a talk with Cifrer (thanks brah) on Page 5, we quickly came up with a way to balance out the pricing of the weapons in a way that makes them cheap while also taking into account Orokin Catalysts and weapon slots are included. The solution? Make them optional extras.

 

(Excuse the awful obvious Paint edits, I ain't no graphic artist)

 

The person can choose to buy just the weapon, or pay a little extra for an installed Catalyst at a discounted price. And if they want to, even pay a little extra for a weapon slot. This way everybody wins.

 

10 Plat for one weapon slot?

With 2 more plat you can buy 2 and you can save 4 plat with buying 2 weapons wih cata.

45*2=90 plat (2X for the high priced ****)

35*2+12=82 plat (2X for identical high priced **** and saving 8 plat)

[Froh]

I see most of you know nothing about money or how free to play works.

 

Actual analysts, the people who do this as a job, and have F2P data from dozens of games? The 'safe' figure is that the top 10~15% of your buyers will account for more then 50% of your revenue on free to play models.

 

Keep the top.. I dunno, 30% of spenders happy? You'll be making as much, if not more, then if you'd tried to eke out a couple of bucks from the other 70% (And give those big spenders less reason to spend their money. As most do it to get ahead or be 'big'.)

 

 

Indeed you're right.

But there is one thing that should not be forgotten :

Player's experience.

A store who "feels" too expensive will disgust a good chunck of potential players.

Even if they're not "in the target market", having more people to play a game is actually better than keeping the top players on the long term. Because if the community grows, even with smaller prices, they will indeed, making more money.

[Poojipoo]

Indeed you're right.

But there is one thing that should not be forgotten :

Player's experience.

A store who "feels" too expensive will disgust a good chunck of potential players.

Even if they're not "in the target market", having more people to play a game is actually better than keeping the top players on the long term. Because if the community grows, even with smaller prices, they will indeed, making more money.

 

Agreed.  The issue comes down to community growth and longevity, which is affected by the overall enjoyment of their title by the average player.  By lowering the prices, the top 15% that might generate 50% of their revenue may be giving them less money per-capita, but the overall size of their community will grow and increase the head count of that top 15% along with it.  Right now, progression pacing is too slow when playing "free", obviously to motivate players to pay for items, but items are too expensive for the average person to see the value.  Thus, the average player quits early on when they aren't progressing fast enough for the game to be fun, and therefore doesn't rope any of their friends in to play with them (some of which could be in that top 15%...).

 

Furthermore, the gameplay of this title caters to "hardcore" gamers.  Most "hardcore" gamers understand they can get a similar experience that Warframe is offering for a flat $60 (or less).  Those $60 games typically have player progression paced just right so the player is getting rewarded at perfect intervals to keep them hooked.  F2P games, however, are typically paced under that "sweet spot" in order to motivate players to "pay for progression".  F2P models have their own "sweet spot" they have to hit between pricing and pacing in order to keep their player base growing and invested (as well as paying), which Warframe is currently missing by a long shot.

 

For one, "Free-only" gameplay needs to be paced fast enough so that players remain interested, particularly early on.  Early unlocks should be frequent and exciting. This gets the player hooked on the "high" of getting new stuff and trying out new classes, abilities, or whatever "stuff" the F2P game has to offer. The first priority of any successful online game should be getting the player hooked and habitually returning for more. Warframe currently fails at this, dropping progression to a crawl right at the start to spur them in to "buying progression". This is a common mistake made by failed F2P games.  Again, getting the player habitually returning comes first, asking them for money comes second.

 

F2P games also need to ease the player in to paying for stuff. They got your product for free, so it's a hard sell at first to get their wallet open.  Make those first few transactions an easy sell by offering cheap stuff that feels substantial, and more importantly, stuff that increases the longevity of the product. This is easy in Warframe: keep the cost of many warframes themselves down to a few bucks; even better, have a few available at the start for only a buck.  Warframes are an easy sell: they're cool looking, have some neat variety in their individual play mechanics, and are a perfect way to keep the player engaged in your game for a long time. Again, keep the player hooked and habitually returning. And once they've bought their first warframe or two, they are now invested.

 

Finally, they just need to be realistic about pricing.  Look at your competitors; there's $60 games that offer lengthy singleplayer campaigns along with multiplayer that can last a person a considerably long time without asking for an additional dime.  If $60 in your F2P game doesn't at least give the player a comparable amount of content, they will notice.  Particularly hardcore gamers. Make your money by keeping the players invested long-term and keeping micro-transactions just that: micro.

[AmagicalFishy]

let's make it easier for this game to shift into a p2w game

 

let's make it easier for people to shell out money to get things instead of actually playing the game

 

good game design > profit generating machine

[LazyKnight]

If they filed the market place with unique plat only skins for existing weapons, pets and numerous of vanity items people would buy them. People want to look unique special and if you cater to that group you will not upset the player base. 

 

I got my founder package just because I liked the look of the prime Excalibur. Its not any better than normal Excalibur but looking cool was reason enough for me to buy this skin.

Edited June 2, 2013 by LazyKnight

[Caiman]

Another suggestion that may or may not have been stated before in this thread: instead of requiring Forma in addition to already-exorbitant reasearch/construction costs, just implement research-unlocked market items.

I'm honestly surprised they didn't add that option.
Well, actually I'm not, since most, if not all of the research weapons appear to be broken (a full week after releasing U8), which explains why they obviously didn't want anybody to actually build them.

But once they're fixed, I'd gladly pay 75 plat apiece for research weapons (with slot, maybe even without potato).
___________________________
Tangential rant:
The value of cosmetics is determined primarily by how fun the endgame is.
Cosmetics are (almost) forever. You buy a whole bunch and that's your style from now on, unless something more appealing comes along.
Their value comes from looking cool for the rest of your stay in this game. And I don't care about looking cool while playing if I don't want to play.
I'm not sinking money for cosmetics if the game appears to be headed in an unfun direction.
Which it is.

I'm not saying grind is bad. PvE = farming until the Einstein of game design comes along and blows our minds.
I'm saying that 100 hyena runs to build the best research weapon(s) is the definition of unfun.
I'm saying dozens of 5/10-wave defense runs to get keys (or coughing up $5 for 1 possibly-worthwhile T3 key and 4 T1/T2 keys with horrible reward tables, which is lottery jackpot odds for actually getting the right parts of the item of your desire after running all of them) is unfun.

There's pervasive overreliance on pure RNG and skewed loot tables, and it always comes down to farming the same map over and over and over again for one material / blueprint or another.

Farming a map is very different from farming monsters in an MMO. A map requires a 10-30 minute long procedure where combat is incidental, and there's little to no variety between each iteration. Whereas monster farming is usually 10-30 second long procedures, and varies far more between procedures because it's less tightly structured. Most importantly, the reward interval is 10-30 seconds instead of 10-30 minutes - pure RNG is much less capricious when you get to roll the dice multiple times in a minute, instead of a couple of times per hour with boss / mission-reward farming.

Really, trying to improve and innovate with the core gameplay would be a far better money-making strategy than churning out "content" in the form of new weapons and tilesets and gimmick enemies. In the long run. I think.

But hey, it may be more economical to have higher player turnover and get new players to buy overpriced crap.

This whole thread is moot if DE is actually making money hand over fist with these insane rates and obvious money-grubby tactics (from even rewards requiring void keys to skewed component drop rates to forma to unintuitive plat-money conversion rates and always have 3 plat left over pricing).

If it works, more power to DE. My cheap playership isn't their loss then. I know bunches of people bought that ludicrously overpriced Stalker pack ($53.33 for 3 weapons and a color pack) and key pack after key pack, and buckets of Forma to build the dojos but I also suspect many of them were just recent resettee Founders = no actual revenue.

But then, even if they were barely staying afloat, that makes sudden change even scarier, since a change in the wrong direction would destroy everything.

[BraveDude8]

Yep as suspected, this wasn't even mentioned on the live stream. It seems DE just completely ignored this thread. Well can't really blame them if they're making good money from people even if things do look crap from the experienced player's side.

 

Yeah, they seem to be happy with paying 10$ - 15$ for a gun.