Comprehensive Exalted Blade Rework Suggestion.

[Epsik-kun]

Hello there. 

A lot of things has changed since the time I've made this post. Provided the initial idea was to make usage of the Exalted Blade more diverse and "fun", most of the previous points still stand just fine. However as it is now, it's no longer only for "fun" and diversity. Exalted Blade nowadays has some serious problems.

Reasoning Wall:

Spoiler

 

1) Exalted Blade has a bad, outdated stance.

It's a fact, that every single combo aside from the most basic "E, E, E, E" one leads to lost damage.
Forced procs on the Block combo are Impact procs, which are useless on the point you can apply them to an enemy (when enemy can survive the actual combo).
The only remotely useful part is forced knockdown on two last hits of the hold combo, however going up close results in a ragdoll attack, that most of the time just throws your enemy completely out of reach.

Not to mention, that for late game Exalted Blade the ability to get status procs becomes especially important, switching to any non-default combo results in drastic performance decrease.

And it's becoming kinda ridiculous, that after all the time passed, Exalted Blade still has no Charge Attack.

2) Exalted Blade actively punishes the player for going into melee range, while his range is getting nerfed.

It's a good thing, that Exalted Blade has all-time active auto block. It's not such a good thing, that that auto block is among the worse ones and only provides 60% damage reduction. It's even worse thing, that having this block only on the frontal arc while going into melee range immediately exposes his back to the enemy. And it's plainly stupid, that neither auto block nor stance provide protection from a knockdown.
It's a really sad thing, that "sword master" frame with 2 mods for survivability can get two-shotted in current Void Survival at the very start of the mission.

Recent nerf for EBlade have added a cost on Spin Blind - another layer of punishing the player for going melee, because against high level enemies using Spin Blind is pretty much mandatory 
which made all non-max Efficiency builds highly sub-optimal, in other words - bad and pointless.

3) Despite being actively punished for going into melee, doing this is required to use EBlade to its full potential.

Going up close with eblade doubles your damage, your status proc chance, gives you access to Spin Blind and results in much higher potential of armor bypassing.

As the result of these three points, Excalibur and his EBlade has pretty much defined "the most optimal usage", which is:
-to go max efficiency (because no amount of Power Strength is going to outperform x4 modifier from Spin Blind)
-to spam E (because there's no point in using other attacks)
-to use Naramon (because Excalibur has no defenses on pair with the enemy content he's designed to face)

Honestly, I don't know whether it's funny or sad, but Exalted Blade Excalibur currently has no objective point in being played. As it was previously, EBlade Excalibur has his niche, the area where he greatly exceled among other frames - he was one of the best picks for up to a hourly long Survivals, whether it was solo Survival or team one.
Excalibur was one of the better universal picks for Sorties. Excalibur was The Frame to pick for "moderately high level content".

However now, especially after melee changes, there's a lot of frames that are strictly better than Excalibur on the "up to enemy level 100" range. Pretty much any frame with at least some synergy for melee can be better than EBlading Excal at doing this level of content, which used to be his forte.

Prior to his latest nerf, Excalibur was among the frames who could've gone for longer Solo Survivals with Naramon prior to having their damage to fall off. That was extremely niche - as CL Dagger was a better way to go for it anyway - but it was something. His nerf murdered the Power Strength EBlade build. Without that build, even after all the indirect buffs Excal received (Primed Pressure Points and Primed Fury) - he can't go as far as he could previously.

Thus, here I come to my final point, which I consider to be more subjective:

Exalted Blade despite:
1) Having constant energy cost;
2) Limiting you from using other weapons;
3) Forcing you to mod both your frame and melee for the sake of essentially melee,

Is far from being a top-tier weapon.

What I mean here, is no matter what kind of content and what level of content you are facing, there always will be considerably better options than to use Exalted Blade. For the most parts it even includes Excalibur himself.

If it's long-ranged EBlade for low level enemies - several primaries do it better.
If it's EBlade for cutting down enemies of moderately high level (40~100) - weapons like Orthos Prime or Atterax can do it much better.
If it's about going overstayed Survivals - CL daggers do it better. And even if we count out CL daggers and stick to pure damage from your weapon, there are better options to chose from currently. Even for melee.

I've previously said:
"It's an ultimate which gives you a weapon. Why shouldn't it be an ultimate weapon?"

Currently, the answer to that rhetorical question is "It shouldn't because raisins".

 

 

Rework for EBlade:

1) Make it an actual longsword (the ones you hold with both hands - close to what heavy blades are);

2) Keep it average speed the same;

3) Drastically increase its melee range (not the levels of Wukong, but it should be longer than regular melee);

4) Double its damage and Status chance. Increase critical chance by around 5%;

5) Return 100% damage block from the front. Add lesser (50%~75%) damage block from all directions - might still require adding some extra options for Excal's self-defence coming from sources that aren't EBlade.

6) Remove waves from the basic combo;

Rework for the stance itself:

1) First combo remains unchanged - it's your go-to hit'n'run combo, as it doesn't affect your actual movement the slightest.

2) Second combo should consist of wide attacks with moderate damage multipliers with forced knockdown (not ragdoll) on some of the hits. It should use some dashes and spins. This is the combo you'll be using when fighting in a croud;

3) Third combo should be a single-target killer, consisting primarily of vertical slashes and thrusts with high damage multipliers. It should have forced Slash procs on some hits. Last attack could be an aimed thrust (meaning you could aim it at enemy/boss weak spot for maximum effectiveness) with even higher damage multiplier and/or having Finisher damage instead of regular one.

4) Second and third combo should provide innate knockdown immunity;

5) Ground finisher should have a forced Slash Proc in the same way Dual Blades have it. It's something immensely vital for a late-game oriented weapon.

6) Finally, fourth combo is the combo that allows you to fire waves again. Waves should be bigger and deal more damage than before (to match the EBlade damage itself) but the combo itself should proceed very slowly with a big time windows between swings, going vertical slashes and ending with wide horizontal ones. This combo should lock you in the place to discourage its universal usage.

It's an option to make the wave combo I suggest into a Charge Attack combo. However, I'm not sure if the mechanics of the game currently support Charge Attacks with different properties.

And we all know, that swing -> Charge Attack is a bad system.

I've previously said:
"Also, one of a very nice parts of current EBlade is a sliding Radial Blind. It's a great thing, that makes you sometimes stop spamming waves. How about expanding this idea further?"

Now I feel like crying.
Anyway, "Skills on attacks" suggestions:

Spoiler

1) Sliding attack stays Radial Blind as it is. Arguable, could use some animation changes. For example, the sword itself just flashing in mid-swing, without additional following animation. It's also a well known fact, that energy price on Slide Blind actively discourages going into the actual melee with Excal. Maybe, if his stats will be up to pair with the content he's designed to face, the energy price would have its place. Currently its presence is degrading to the frame and the ability.

2) Jump attack becomes toned down version of Slash Dash - no multi-targeting, shorter distance, slightly different animation, but still providing a little homing effect (just a little) and movement capabilities;

3) Slam attack procs Radial Javeling at the end, for the radius just slightly wider than the slam itself. Damage or/and number of targets are toned down;

4) Wall attack gives you a second EBlade which does 420 times the damage, because no one uses wall attacks.

As the atmospheric part (aka "mah Skana on Excal"), the new EBlade could be a transformed Skana itself. I mean, when Excal uses his ultimate, he draws his usual Skana first, and then with a visible effort transforms it into a big longsword.

Slash Dash, Radial Blind and Radial Javelin all use the same Skana animation, unless EBlade is activated. If that's the case, Skana in animations is changed for the longsword, while the abilities themself receive some bonus of a sort.

 

On a side note, you might notice that there's no suggestion to "allow Shadow Debt mods on EBlade". That's my personal opinion, but I love the fact EBlade doesn't use Blood Rush and such. It just works. No matter what you think about the suggestions here - a buff, a nerf, something else - allowing Blood Rush and Body Count on Exalted Blade will make it much, much stronger than what I'm suggesting (and it'll make Hysteria to dish out absurd amounts of damage). But instead of this, I would rather have a strong viable option, that doesn't feel like Blood Rush melee.

 

Edited August 29, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[omelly]

INB4 working as intended

[Slaviar]

Limiting waves to combos will have one of two effects- it will either put him in back row if it's hold/pause combo or people will spam wave combo if it's hold RMB. Same effect. No need to change him.

[cittran]

First off:

Yes, I made it to the end. (I regularly read long stories, as well as Great Wall(s) of Text, as opposed to just going to the tl;dr because lazy. I also frequently write these, so I figure the least I can do is read them completely when I actually run into them.)

 

For someone with such a (relatively) low amount of playtime, this is actually much more thought-out that you'd normally see, so you have my respect for that. :)

 

 

On-Topic:

 

A breakdown (as simple as possible) of what you're recommending. (I know I'm leaving some stuff out, but I'm just including the basic idea here.):

Rework for EBlade:
1) Make it an actual longsword -- held with both hands.

This would only be required if the blade itself were a physical object -- if it's made of pure energy, it has no mass, so controlling it with two hands would limit its movement but provide no benefits in return.
2) Keep its average speed the same.

Attack speed is fine; I can't see any need to change it.
3) Increase its range to something like Orthos P range;

The reason the current range is comparatively short is twofold:

1. EB uses the Skana as the weapon-model, and the Skana is a fairly short sword

2. EB creates the Skana from Excal's hands joined-together then separated, and it deactivates the Skana via the same animation, but in reverse

In other words, the energy-weapon spawned for EB must be short enough to fit between Excal's outstretched arms. The orthos/p is far longer than that.
4) Increase (double) its damage;

"Trust me, EB doesn't need a damage increase." (And by that I mean I'd absolutely love a damage increase, but DE wouldn't do it, because it would mess up their ability to control how long we can prolong the void matches for.)
5) Return 100% damage block from the front, when not swinging it, add some damage block when you do swing it;

This was removed because people were just standing in place, blocking all incoming damage, regardless of source. And then they were returning it with the Reflection mod. So they could just stand in place, and any and all enemies with a gun would literally just kill themselves shooting at Excal.
6) Remove waves from the basic combo;

The amount of hateflame DE would get for this would be extremely high. I'm personally rather doubtful it would be a good idea, because EB drains energy fast enough that only being able to attack in melee-range while using it would be a significant limiter to its effectiveness (using that combo). On top of that, most players who are new to the game don't even know how to trigger combos besides the standard 'spam E' combos. You're lucky if they even pay attention to chat. And seeing as how DE doesn't want to discourage new players from joining, anything that makes one of their 'starter frames' that much more difficult to learn to use probably isn't the best design idea.
 
Then, rework for the stance itself:
1) First combo is pretty much unchanged, save for the fact Excal is not swinging energy Skana, but a considerably bigger (visually and effectively) longsword. This is the combo you'll be using when you're running around as it doesn't affect your movement;

Unneeded; reasoning above.
2) Second combo should consist of wide attacks with moderate damage multiplier. It could use some dashes and spins, but not for the first hits. This is the combo you'll be using when fighting in a croud;

Any stance rework to the degree you're talking about would require a lot of time to redo all the changed animations. (My 'final point' below explains why this means it's probably not gonna happen.)
3) Third combo should be a single-target killer, consisting primarily of vertical slashes and thrusts with high damage multipliers. Last attack could be an aimed thrust (meaning you could aim it at enemy/boss weak spot for maximum effectiveness) with even higher damage multiplier. Optionally, opening target for a finisher, if it somehow managed to survive the final thrust (I'm looking at you, enemy scaling);

Anything meant to combat enemy scaling, but that also limits mobility without providing either total immunity to damage or massive CC, probably isn't something people would actually use against enemy scaling. Why? Because the people who actually build against enemy scaling are the ones who minmax every single piece of equipment they bring. They will only change tactics if they can be minmaxed to a better extent than their current tactics.
4) Second and third combo should provide innate knockback immunity;

This is more of a sub-point, really, but it's also only relevant if the changes to the stance make sense.
5) Finally, fourth combo is the combo that allows you to fire waves again. Waves should be bigger and deal more damage than before (to match the EBlade damage itself) but the combo itself should progress very slowly with a big time windows between swings, going vertical slashes and ending with wide horizontal ones. This combo probably shouldn't have actual movements in itself, to allow the old trick of sitting and shooting waves, but you wouldn't be able to do it while running.

Anything with a big time-window in the combo animation, but that doesn't provide innate immunity to damage and status during that animation, is something top-tier players won't use. Again, minmaxers are the people here.

 

Also, one of a very nice part of current EBlade is sliding Radial Blind. It's a great thing, that makes you sometimes stop spamming waves. How about expanding this idea further?
1) Sliding attack stays Radial Blind as it is. Arguable, could use some animation changes. For example, the sword itself just flashing in mid-swing, without additional following animation;

I agree with you in principle, but every sliding attack in game is also a spin-attack, so I doubt this would change.
2) Jump attack becomes toned down version of Slash Dash - no multi-targeting, shorter distance, slightly different animation, but still providing a little homing effect (just a little) and movement capabilities;

Okay, this might be nice, I'll admit that.
3) Slam attack procs Radial Javeling at the end, for the radius just slightly wider than the slam itself. Damage or/and number of targets are toned down;

This would also be nice.
4) Wall attack gives you a second EBlade which does 7 times the damage, because no one uses wall attacks.

Haha no. I understand your (attempt) at logic here -- you want to encourage people to not just spam e. There are two problems with your train of thought.

1. People will do the easiest thing possible that also has the highest degree of effectiveness. Because people want to be efficient. It's in our DNA.

2. A 7x multiplier on damage is absurd -- unmodded, that's just crazy. Modded, it could quite literally break the game in some places. (Sure, it would only work if there's a wall nearby, but then the minmaxers would only play on certain tileset locations -- they already do that, but this would exacerbate the problem.)

 

 

What I like:

A jump-attack triggering a limited Slash Dash sound like it would fit with EB, and it fits with how the ability is already used.

 

The idea of a ground-slam attack triggering a smaller Radial Javelin also sounds like a neat idea, and it, too, fits with how the ability is already used.

 

 

Final Point:

Leaving-aside everything I've stated above, the biggest roadblock in place here is the consideration of "Is it worth the effort" -- namely, does EB need a rework badly enough that it should be done instead of adding additional content, fixing current bugs, or reworking ineffective abilities. If the answer to that threefold question is "No", then it's pretty likely that DE won't be putting it on their list of stuff to do.

Edited September 30, 2015 by cittran

[(XBOX)Ivan of Jupiter]

Excalibur is fine. If anything he may need a nerf. His Eblade draws mods from both your Warframe and your melee. With the right build he can be an unstoppable killing machine.

Excalibur needs a nerf of sorts. Not damage wise, but the fact that he can use Eblade indefinitely makes it far too easy to spam. Maybe make it so the energy drains faster?

If you feel he's a bit underwhelming invest in

Rage

Quick Thinking

Steel Charge

Life Strike

Beserker

And a melee with a high crit chance.

[Epsik-kun]

@cittran

 

While I'm grateful for a detailed response (albeit somehow done without taking in an account the whole picture), I want to point out two things:

 

1) The reason why longswords are held with two hands isn't their mass. Two-handed grip provides crazy amount of advantages over one-handed grip.

2) The wall attack part was a joke, c'mon srsly.

 

I do agree on the "is it worth the effort" part, but hey, it's just a suggestion.

 

@JupiterIvan

 

I don't feel underwhelming. And, tbh, the suggested changes will be an actual nerf to the regular playstyle, while leaving the possibility of it turning out a buff, if you make an effort of working around the changes.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Epsik-kun

[RafaelFuchs]

Interesting ideas. I would definitely like to see the return of the frontal damage block. What would the size and range of the blades actually be with the final combo?

This would only be required if the blade itself were a physical object -- if it's made of pure energy, it has no mass, so controlling it with two hands would limit its movement but provide no benefits in return.

Weight isn't why 2h stances are used with longswords and bastard swords. They were actually very similar in weight to arming swords (used in 1h). It was used to have more fine motor controls of the weapon. The longer something is, the more accurate you had to be due to being 5mm off at your hand placement can translate to 2-3cm at the tip. It also gave you more blocking potential because you're now absorbing and redirecting the force with two hands instead of one.

[Epsik-kun]

The idea is to keep the average wave dps about the same as it is now. Actual range could be the same too

 

I have some more specific ideas for the combos themselves, maybe I'll make a rough sketch for them. For what concerns final combo, I can see it being a four hit combo, which starts with the average speed you can see on Excal if you do his current 4th combo with Spoiled strike equipped.

First three hits are one-handed reverse-grip strikes going upwards, and the last strike is being even more delayed extremelly wide two-handed horisontal slash, probably with a x2 damage multiplier.

Size of waves of first three slashes is supposed to be just a little bigger than the current one (let's say for about 30%), but the last slash should be at least twice as wide.

So there'll be an option to just go for first three relatively fast strikes and restart combo, or to go for the final blow, if you can afford the extra delay.

[Maicael]

I like it +1. If these were implemented (with whatever modifications DE deemed more realistic to the game) I might try Excalibur out for a third time. I tried out Exalibur again right after his rework and thought it was cool at first, but it did get pretty boring pretty fast. I mean, his E. Blade isn't really even treated like melee and more like a Fluctus.

 

The energy drain is low on it, too. Unmodded for efficiency/duration it translates into 40 seconds for the typical Ult cost of 100 energy. With the damage it deals, 40 seconds is plenty of time for it to kill effectively as an Ult even without the energy waves. I don't think people believe it's supposed to be used to kill enemies around them quickly and then put away(how Mesa's Peacemaker has to be used now), not equipped all the time.

 

Edit:

*cittran*

-snip-

 

The reason the current range is comparatively short is twofold:

1. EB uses the Skana as the weapon-model, and the Skana is a fairly short sword

2. EB creates the Skana from Excal's hands joined-together then separated, and it deactivates the Skana via the same animation, but in reverse

In other words, the energy-weapon spawned for EB must be short enough to fit between Excal's outstretched arms. The orthos/p is far longer than that.

 

-snip-

With regards to increasing the length of the blade, the animation could be changed to something that it being between his hands is no longer an issue. Changing it to something similar to drawing a lightsaber would work, where Excalibur concentrates his energy into one hand and a sword forms as the energy extends.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Maicael

[YANJIUDING]

I totally agree with you. Spamming energy waves with EEEEEEE is not OP at all and pretty handy, but I believe many people have already started getting tired of it.

 

Here's my thought. The sword itself does not need to be an actual sword as long as orthos prime visually, but it can has the same (or even longer) melee range than that of orthos prime. This can be explained as the lacerating aura emitted by this energy blade, like a much more concentrated version of equinox's miam.

 

First combo: Great

 

Second & Third combo: Some occasional energy waves on the last few strikes of each combo, providing some level of range attack

 

Last combo: A combo charge attack ( like ↓ + hold E). After a really long time window like 3~5 sec with no auto melee block leaving you vunerable, Excalibur reveals EB's ful potential, transforming into a super duper giant sword, then vertically slashes down with awesome badass visual effect and vaporize enemies in front of him.

 

Yes I'm talking about this...

 

“EX------CALIBURRRRRRRRR"

 

https://youtu.be/af3Ae4G3gio

Edited November 18, 2015 by YANJIUDING

[CircularReason]

+1 to ops ideas. Make Excalibur a tactician: power, but with precise movements.

[Ichigo]

Why in the bloody hell would they think of increasing the damage? its veri stronge rite nao, pls narf

[Knightmare047]

I woulsn't mind those changes, but I'd like to keep the current EB's design. I personally like it. Maybe just give it a longer blade.

[4MostlyHarmless2]

I think the main gripe people have with EB is that it an insane range and punchthrough for a "melee" ultimate. The way I see it, what should happen is that the initial unmodded range of the waves should be reduced to 15-20 meters or so, then modding for power range will allow the waves to travel much further.

 

Also, the waves should have a high status chance, if not a forced chance to proc Slash damage, rather than a high crit multiplier with decent crit chance, and then the blade itself will have a high crit multiplier and decent (if not high) crit chance. Both waves and blade affected by melee crit and status mods.

Putting these two together will encourage either a more active melee approach to reap the benefits of hitting someone with a critical from the blade itself, or modding for power range to bleed everyone to death from afar. At least in my opinion. 

Oh, and they should increase the damage negation to at least 85%. It's an energy sword, Excal should be awesome enough in using it to reduce incoming damage by a lot. Dunno why the wiki says it's just 60% :/


tl;dr, less range, more status on waves, higher crit multiplier and crit chance on the blade itself to encourage an active melee playstyle, higher damage negation. 

Edited November 19, 2015 by 4MostlyHarmless2

[(XBOX)Austinjt126]

For anyone wondering, these are the supposed base stats of each "Exalted" 4th ability. 

 

*Disclaimer: When you activate your #4, it creates both an entirely new weapon AND stance that use the appropriate weapon mods.*

(i.e. Artemis Bow ~ Primary Mods; Mesa Regulators ~ Pistol Mods; Exalted Blade / Hysteria / Primal Fury ~ Melee Mods)

 

As you can see from the below stats, they're obviously effected in ways we still not currently understand, like Damage Multipliers, or for a more specific example, why things like Hysteria and Exalted Blade can hit for tens of thousands of points in damage, given their extremely low base stats. Keep that in mind.

 

EXCALIBUR'S EXALTED BLADE

 

Attack Speed: 0.833

Physical Damage: 35

Impact: 5.25

Puncture: 5.25

Slash: 24.5

Critical Chance: 15.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.00%

 

IVARA'S ARTEMIS BOW

 

Flight Speed: 100m/s (100m/s Charged)

Noise Level: 0.0m (Silent)

Fire Rate: ?

Damage Distribution: (see below)

Impact: 14.00%

Puncture: 80.00%

Slash: 6.00%

Critical Chance: 25.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.00%

 

MESA'S REGULATOR PISTOLS

 

Fire Rate: 10

Physical Damage: 150

Impact: 75

Puncture: 37.5

Slash: 37.5

Critical Chance: 50.00%

Critical Multiplier: 3.0x

Status Chance: 10.00%

Range: 50m

Vertical Angle Range: 45m

 

WUKONG'S PRIMAL FURY

 

Attack Speed: 1

Physical Damage: 300

Impact: 255

Puncture: 45

Critical Chance: 25.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 25.00%

 

VALKYR'S HYSTERIA

 

Attack Speed: 1.5

Physical Damage: 300

Impact: 100

Puncture: 100

Slash: 100

Critical Chance: 50.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 0.00%

[Maicael]

 

For anyone wondering, these are the supposed base stats of each "Exalted" 4th ability. 

 

*Disclaimer: When you activate your #4, it creates both an entirely new weapon AND stance that use the appropriate weapon mods.*

(i.e. Artemis Bow ~ Primary Mods; Mesa Regulators ~ Pistol Mods; Exalted Blade / Hysteria / Primal Fury ~ Melee Mods)

 

As you can see from the below stats, they're obviously effected in ways we still not currently understand, like Damage Multipliers, or for a more specific example, why things like Hysteria and Exalted Blade can hit for tens of thousands of points in damage, given their extremely low base stats. Keep that in mind.

 

EXCALIBUR'S EXALTED BLADE

 

Attack Speed: 0.833

Physical Damage: 35

Impact: 5.25

Puncture: 5.25

Slash: 24.5

Critical Chance: 15.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 15.00%

 

IVARA'S ARTEMIS BOW

 

Flight Speed: 100m/s (100m/s Charged)

Noise Level: 0.0m (Silent)

Fire Rate: ?

Damage Distribution: (see below)

Impact: 14.00%

Puncture: 80.00%

Slash: 6.00%

Critical Chance: 25.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 20.00%

 

MESA'S REGULATOR PISTOLS

 

Fire Rate: 10

Physical Damage: 150

Impact: 75

Puncture: 37.5

Slash: 37.5

Critical Chance: 50.00%

Critical Multiplier: 3.0x

Status Chance: 10.00%

Range: 50m

Vertical Angle Range: 45m

 

WUKONG'S PRIMAL FURY

 

Attack Speed: 1

Physical Damage: 300

Impact: 255

Puncture: 45

Critical Chance: 25.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 25.00%

 

VALKYR'S HYSTERIA

 

Attack Speed: 1.5

Physical Damage: 300

Impact: 100

Puncture: 100

Slash: 100

Critical Chance: 50.00%

Critical Multiplier: 2.0x

Status Chance: 0.00%

1. The base damage of Exalted Blade is 250, not 35

 

2. What do you mean "low base stats"? For Excalibur/Valkyr/Wukong base melee damage of 250 is the highest base melee damage in the game! Not to mention being an ability, they are affected not only by your equipped melee weapon's mods, but also power strength and the Steel Charge Aura (stackable 4 times for +240% damage).

Edited February 2, 2016 by Maicael

[AKKILLA]

 

Hello there. 

First off, I have to say I don't think the current EBlade is bad/OP/actually NEEDS to be reworked, etc. I'm a relative noob with just little over a hundred hours of play time, I've only seen EBlade in early T4 or slightly prolonged T3 maximum. It's good, it feels powerful (top damage while holding Ext Key, what is my life), but lacks that "press 4 for win" feeling, which is good (the lack, not the feeling).

 

However, I feel like while EBlade is awesome and stuff, there could be done some design improvements, to make it more complex, but at the same time more rewarding instrument.

 

The two main problems I have with EBlade are:

1) Its brainlessness;

2) The stance.

 

What do I mean by brainlessness. EBlade isn't OP, but it is a universal answer to pretty much anything. If you want to melee - you EBlade stuff. You want to shoot - you EBlade stuff. You want AoE - you EBlade stuff. You want single target damage - you get the idea...

Yeah, as the game goes, weapon which can outperform EBlade in some of these categories start to appear, but not in the overall versality. Basically, most of the time, the only reason you don't want to have EBlade up is to conserve energy.

 

And, actually it isn't bad. I'm perfectly fine with it. It's an ultimate which gives you a weapon. Why shouldn't it be an ultimate weapon?

 

Tha real problem is, all of the above is achieved via simply tapping melee attack button.

There's an unique stance, and that's good. But the stance pretty much does nothing. The most effective way to fight with EBlade is by simply tapping attack as fast as you can. Combos are effectively drop your damage, due to being slower, while not providing noticeable reward for using them, aside from style points. Yeah, there's a ragdoll attack in the end of a one particular combo, but how often you ever going to actually land it? You better off with just swinging EBlade and not caring for actual combos.

And it's not like you actually want to melee stuff. Why would you want to melee stuff, when energy waves do it faster?

 

So, in the end, best option is to sit in a place and spam waves. Which isn't bad, tbh, but isn't that cool and epic™.

 

So, with the walltext of my reasoning being over, what do I actually suggest:

 

Rework for EBlade:

1) Make it an actual longsword (the ones you hold with both hands - close to what heavy blades are);

2) Keep it average speed the same;

3) Increase its range to something like Orthos P range;

4) Increase (double) its damage;

5) Return 100% damage block from the front, when not swinging it, add some damage block when you do swing it;

6) Remove waves from the basic combo;

 

Then, rework for the stance itself:

1) First combo is pretty much unchanged, save for the fact Excal is not swinging energy Skana, but a considerably bigger (visually and effectively) longsword. This is the combo you'll be using when you're running around as it doesn't affect your movement;

2) Second combo should consist of wide attacks with moderate damage multiplier. It could use some dashes and spins, but not for the first hits. This is the combo you'll be using when fighting in a croud;

3) Third combo should be a single-target killer, consisting primarily of vertical slashes and thrusts with high damage multipliers. Last attack could be an aimed thrust (meaning you could aim it at enemy/boss weak spot for maximum effectiveness) with even higher damage multiplier. Optionally, opening target for a finisher, if it somehow managed to survive the final thrust (I'm looking at you, enemy scaling);

4) Second and third combo should provide innate knockback immunity;

5) Finally, fourth combo is the combo that allows you to fire waves again. Waves should be bigger and deal more damage than before (to match the EBlade damage itself) but the combo itself should progress very slowly with a big time windows between swings, going vertical slashes and ending with wide horisontal ones. This combo probably shouldn't have actual movements in itself, to allow the old trick of sitting and shooting waves, but you wouldn't be able to do it while running.

 

If it's possible, combo selection should be possible on the very first hit. I get, that everyone should just get gud, but when you're trying to react to what is happening around you, and what you need to do as a result - ability of precise selection of your options is a good design.

Let's say, 1st combo is usual E, E, E, E; 2nd is E, pause, E....; 3rd is hold E, E... and 4th is RMB + E, E... - something like that.

 

Also, one of a very nice part of current EBlade is sliding Radial Blind. It's a great thing, that makes you sometimes stop spamming waves. How about expanding this idea further?

1) Sliding attack stays Radial Blind as it is. Arguable, could use some animation changes. For example, the sword itself just flashing in mid-swing, without additional following animation;

2) Jump attack becomes toned down version of Slash Dash - no multi-targeting, shorter distance, slightly different animation, but still providing a little homing effect (just a little) and movement capabilities;

3) Slam attack procs Radial Javeling at the end, for the radius just slightly wider than the slam itself. Damage or/and number of targets are toned down;

4) Wall attack gives you a second EBlade which does 7 times the damage, because no one uses wall attacks.

 

As the atmospheric part (aka "mah Skana on Excal"), the new EBlade could be a transformed Skana itself. I mean, when Excal uses his ultimate, he draws his usual Skana first, and then with a visible effort transforms it into a big longsword.

 

Slash Dash, Radial Blind and Radial Javelin all use the same Skana animation, unless EBlade is activated. If that's the case, Skana in animations is changed for the longsword, while the abilities themself receive some bonus of a sort.

 

Sooo... There are my little thoughts on Excalibur's Eblade. Thank you for reading, if you somehow was able to made it (I'm sure I wouldn't).

 

 

I come to the conclusion that most players don't like having fun. 

This thread is quiet depressing, I understand everyone has there opinion but ruining Exalted Blade and turning into just a Skana is a huge disappointment and nerf to a perfectly fine warframe. Great example that Nerfs hurt warframe more then benefit it is, this Event "Operation:Shadow Debt" or another great example is the "Sorties" theres No way in hell that Nerfing Warframes will benefit or help them out or the game itself.

Now if what your intentions are is to Nerf him because Your favorite Frame hasnt recieved the Love You want then thats completely childish. The best way to go about that is suggesting some ideas for Your favorite frame to be viable for the Community. Remember this game is a PVE and if Your team is weak then Your dragged down with them aswell. A great example is New players who chose to enter this community and want to pick up something some what decent play Excalibur, Exalted Blade makes You feel like Youre actually doing something oppose to being weak and feeling discouraged to play because you are under geared and dont have much time or plat to put into your account.

 

Remember before You chose to make suggestion think about the community first, we all play this game this isnt just Your personal game. You need to be mindful of others feelings towards Your ideas of ruining something thats fun and helps Your Team. The objective of this game is to go into your mission grind your resources and materials and extract with a MISSION COMPLETE not a MISSION FAILED just some food for thought and Im not an Excalibur Main. I love all Frames and I think PVP should be were the balance and nerfs remain, not PVE. This is a Team effort

[(XBOX)Austinjt126]

1. The base damage of Exalted Blade is 250, not 35

 

2. What do you mean "low base stats"? For Excalibur/Valkyr/Wukong base melee damage of 250 is the highest base melee damage in the game! Not to mention being an ability, they are affected not only by your equipped melee weapon's mods, but also power strength and the Steel Charge Aura (stackable 4 times for +240% damage).

 

Well then I'd like to see your source. My information was pulled from a reliable data-miner on Reddit. 

 

If I'm wrong, then I have no problem with admitting to be so, but I'd like to see evidence to support otherwise.

[Maicael]

Well then I'd like to see your source. My information was pulled from a reliable data-miner on Reddit. 

 

If I'm wrong, then I have no problem with admitting to be so, but I'd like to see evidence to support otherwise.

Info comes from the wiki here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade

 

Did some of my own playtesting in the Simulacrum. Unmodded Excalibur with no equipped melee was hitting Lvl 20 Arid Butchers(for very little armor) for 295 damage at the lowest. Edit: That's the same for both the energy wave and a direct hit.

 

I don't think Exalted Blade deals the same damage as an unmodded Skana even though that's the visual model it uses. Perhaps that's the damage he extracted, or maybe it does deal 35 base damage but gets amplified through the ability.

 

Edit: Tested with an unmodded Prisma Skana just to be sure and was hitting the same Arid Butchers for 40 or 60 normal damage (max of 129 on a crit)

Edited February 2, 2016 by Maicael

[Guest NinjaFresh007]

I'd honestly request to leave Excalibur as-is, but perhaps add in these changes to Excalibur Prime.

Then the vets get to mess around with 'more complexity' without messing with the newbies who just want to kill stuff.

[(XBOX)Austinjt126]

Info comes from the wiki here: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Exalted_Blade

 

Did some of my own playtesting in the Simulacrum. Unmodded Excalibur with no equipped melee was hitting Lvl 20 Arid Butchers(for very little armor) for 295 damage at the lowest. Edit: That's the same for both the energy wave and a direct hit.

 

I don't think Exalted Blade deals the same damage as an unmodded Skana even though that's the visual model it uses. Perhaps that's the damage he extracted, or maybe it does deal 35 base damage but gets amplified through the ability.

 

Edit: Tested with an unmodded Prisma Skana just to be sure and was hitting the same Arid Butchers for 40 or 60 normal damage (max of 129 on a crit)

 

Then I stand corrected. The post I used dated back to immediately post-Rework, so now in retrospect, it may have been supplementary / placeholder information, or it was changed some point shortly after. I'll submit to have his post updated using the Wiki data.

[Epsik-kun]

Now if what your intentions are is to Nerf him because Your favorite Frame hasnt recieved the Love You want then thats completely childish.

What if my favorite frame is Excalibur? You didn't read the actual post, did you?

[MichaelSD]

While Excalibur is my favourite frame, I immensely dislike EB. Not only makes it all weapons unnecessary, but the idea itself was meg. We had the skana as a weapon, it could have done everything we have now in EB and it would be logical.

But each of his own.....

[SaucyTuckermax]

EB is brainless?? The whole game is brainless...Plz let me explain: Why on kappa do you have to defend the orokin artifact that WAS hidden and completely fine until you and your team mate pressed buttons at the same time causing it to be revealed and in sudden "need of defending"...I could write a book on some of the "brainless" mechanics / designs of game. EB is fine the way it is...final answer.

[AKKILLA]

What if my favorite frame is Excalibur? You didn't read the actual post, did you?

 

I have My good man, Its the same concept i have read throughout the forums. You arent the only one complaining about the Waves. I believe its the Higher Mastery Rank players who are disappointed in noobs running around spamming endless EBs that make you and a few others feel this way. Limit the waves to certain combos or completely remove them is what has been floating around. Aswell as the Hysteria nerf crowds. 

 

You may be infact an Excal fan but its obvious You dislike EB spam or You wouldnt take the time and effort to write this and suggest changes. Maybe Your the old Excal fan of old Slash Dash and Radial Javelin and Super Jump days. I honestly Love EB and it looks awesome visually. Makes Me feel like im in some type of Anime. 

 

My opinion tho, this is a Nerf. EBs discription says summon a sword of Pure Light and Immense Power. Not summon a Long sword or Skana. Just My opinion tho. Im a Noobie soo I will continue to Spam EB before Your Thread gets heard and this happens soo time too enjoy EB while it lasts :'(

EB spam :)