Game Too Easy? Why Is That?

[Cpl_Facehugger]

So I'm sure we all know about the many criticisms on the game's difficulty. Most of them revolve around how easy it is.

But that got me thinking. Why isn't it challenging? What exactly makes it so easy for some people to blaze through pluto levels and murderize everything without ever taking health damage? What is it that the enemies lack to make things challenging?

In short, what's the root cause of the game's easiness?

Please, if you've ever said "this game is too easy", put your thoughts here and explain why you feel that way, in as much detail as possible.

[MetalGerbil]

one time i did a solo pluto run without my shade because i took it off to test something.

most fun run i have had in a long time.

our survivability is too high as well as damage. if we did less damage and where exposed to danger for longer periods or time it would help. or have things like ice on the level happen more often.

in a game where you have shields that regenerate it takes much of the punch out of enemies.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

one time i did a solo pluto run without my shade because i took it off to test something.

most fun run i have had in a long time.

our survivability is too high as well as damage. if we did less damage and where exposed to danger for longer periods or time it would help. or have things like ice on the level happen more often.

in a game where you have shields that regenerate it takes much of the punch out of enemies.

Okay. What frame were you running and how many shields did you have, for reference? Also, what weapon were you generally using?

[ra9una]

I personally don't find it too easy, in fact the only reason I am so helplessly in love with this game is that it offers action and play style that I like without requiring the skill that some other games do which simply frustrates and angers me...which is just to say I hate it in two different ways.

It's nothing personal but if the increases significantly in difficulty I won't play anymore (not that I'll quite, it's just I suck so much I won't able to play it anymore). But that's just me.

[Kiteless]

Enemy AI isn't too bright.

 

Damage numbers are solid. A bad mistake, or being grabbed by a Scorpion (for the record, issues with Scorpions have very little to do with actual difficulty, due to the fact there's no way to actually avoid their attacks) will end up with you on the floor in short order.

 

Although I would consider cutting the health/shield increasing mods max potential in half. As it stands, the numbers you can achieve can completely trivialize late game damage. Increasing enemy damage is not the answer, since it would crush early game players.

 

Increasing the rate of frozen levels is a poor idea. I, and a lot of players, just abandon the mission as soon as we realize it's frozen. It would mean more abandoned missions, and do nothing to enhance the difficulty.

 

I would actually say that the difficulty of the main planetary missions isn't so bad, we just need some truly challenging endgame content for players to graduate to.

Edited May 29, 2013 by Kiteless

[Xylia]

Increasing the rate of frozen levels is a poor idea. I, and a lot of players, just abandon the mission as soon as we realize it's frozen. It would mean more abandoned missions, and do nothing to enhance the difficulty.

 

But yet.....

 

Although I would consider cutting the health/shield increasing mods max potential in half.

 

You'd consider cutting Health/Shield increasing mods max potential (which makes up for the vast majority of your health/shields) in half, but yet you auto-abandon Cryo levels.

 

...........yeah.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Enemy AI isn't too bright.

In what way? I've got my own thoughts on this matter, but I'd like to hear what people who actually think the game's too easy are thinking.

 

Damage numbers are solid. A bad mistake, or being grabbed by a Scorpion (for the record, issues with Scorpions have very little to do with actual difficulty, due to the fact there's no way to actually avoid their attacks) will end up with you on the floor in short order.

Hmm. Okay. So if the damage numbers themselves are solid, is the problem that the damage isn't actually connecting? Is this due to cover? Enemy inaccuracy? Tenno mobility?

[Emotitron]

It relies largely on the kinds of skills FPS players develop. For players who have aggressively competed in games like quake it feels way too easy. For players still new to the genre it probably feels pretty hard.

 

Some form of difficulty setting is inevitable I think.

[Dasmir]

Flat stats of the enemies are well balanced but the $&*&*#(%& AI is just hilarous....

[Xylia]

My Reply to the OP:

 

I feel too much of the game's challenge relies upon the existence (or not) of certain "Rare" mods which are pretty much essential:

 

Redirection

Vitality

Steel Fiber

 

And then a few like Rush, Flow, Steamline, some of the weapon mods, etc.

 

Redirection isn't hard to get, but it is oh-so-hard to level, taking tens of thousands of credits and LOTS of mods to max it out.

 

If you lack a lot of these mods, the game is Hell.

If you have all of them + Potatoes, the game is probably Easy.

 

The Mods make-or-break you.

[Mikaru_Y]

I think it's that the AI is kinda willy-nilly and it doesn't really have much strategy behind it, I mean imagine if enemies covered all the exits and attacked you from every corner, you'd go down pretty fast. Picture shockwave moas behind regular moas, getting knocked down AND enemies having cover from your shots, with the additional sniper and normal corpus enemies firing at you from behind all cover possible.

 

I really think anyone who's calling to nerf mods needs to recall what happened when they removed additional health and shields so that everyone was at roughly 100 or 200 shields/health without the mods, it was insane and totally absurd, let's not go with that again.

[Cpl_Facehugger]

It relies largely on the kinds of skills FPS players develop. For players who have aggressively competed in games like quake it feels way too easy. For players still new to the genre it probably feels pretty hard.

Okay, but why is that? What about the game makes experienced Quake players have an easier time than people not used to the genre? Is it twitch headshot skills? Something else?

Edited May 29, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Kiteless]

But yet.....

 

 

 

 

You'd consider cutting Health/Shield increasing mods max potential (which makes up for the vast majority of your health/shields) in half, but yet you auto-abandon Cryo levels.

 

...........yeah.

 

As I said, I just abandon cryo levels, since they offer nothing in the face of the much better alternative of just leaving and restarting the level.

 

But if you cut the max potential for shield growth, you have something far more manageable and much less arbitrary. Cryo levels are bad because they essentially serve no purpose. Adjusting shield values changes the actual gameplay itself.

[Xylia]

But if you cut the max potential for shield growth, you have something far more manageable and much less arbitrary. Cryo levels are bad because they essentially serve no purpose. Adjusting shield values changes the actual gameplay itself.

 

If we used your suggestion, then EVERY LEVEL WOULD BE A CRYO LEVEL.

 

What part of that don't you understand?

 

Instead of having the option to quit and restart, you'd be forced to run with it because ALL levels would be like that.

 

Cryo is already THE most hated "situation" that can spawn in a level randomly.

 

And you want to make ALL levels like that?

 

lol........

[PIzzazza]

spawn more enemies when alarm is on. The more the better.

[CosyPigeon]

Primarily enemy AI. I made a thread about ways to potential improve the AI, it involved things like making sure they use tactics like suppressing fire and flanking maneuvers, as well as being more aggressive. You can read  it here:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/53089-more-aggressive-ai/

[CosyPigeon]

spawn more enemies when alarm is on. The more the better.

 

Not if you like having decent frame rates. I suspect you may just want more enemies for the increased chances of more loot :P

 

I'd prefer enemies that are smarter, and more ruthless, and less prone to suicidal tendencies. 

[SerosTau]

See, what I don't get is I already see most of the suggestions in here in the game, particularly with Grineer and Corpus covering the exits and showering me with bullets from all directions.  It's quite literally why I farmed up a Frost.  And was pointed out, you get knocked over by a Shockwave Moa with half a dozen of the little ones around you, you just die.  And the same thing with a Scorpion in a room with Grineer from every angle.

 

I think it's less the game being too easy and many players who pretty much EXCLUSIVELY play FPS titles being too good at this sort of game.

[Mittens]

I think alot of you are missing the point of the game. If your just run through missions and get the best mods then ofc its not going to be fun anymore. I assume this game is ment to actually act like ninja's. if you want a challenge, try getting through a mission with no kills or without being seen. improve your skill set and personal abilities. Like the post above me says lol i suck as a ninja so i had to make a frost cause they always see me.

[Estred]

Tbh I love playing the game for the sake of playing it, I will polarize and I will re-level mods as I go. To me playing is the fun aspect, growing is power is fun. I may even sell my Serrartion mod when I get a new one at some point just to challenge myself.

 

/rant

To all you "speed runners" out there. Stop, you actually are really ruining the game for everyone else. Those of us Dojo-Material farmers, those who are newer, those who are on slow warframes... you suck the fun for us. I personally can keep up with a Speeder but Online missions are becoming pointless as there is always 1 or 2 guys who dash past everything, never shooting anything mind you. Then sit at the extraction either forcing us to catch up or lose out (60 second timer) or they sit there spamming the others with "hurry up" messages. I got a new's flash, you can speed run solo. If you don't shoot anything then you don't need others. Don't pollute Online experience with your garbage.

/end-rant

 

I really had to say that because I know from the games I play that the issue of Speeders bothers players. In terms of the game difficulty well I think it is more many of us are attuned to making headshots and make good use of the weapons that reward it. My Dread is ahnilating enemies provided I get a good shot off (6234 damage headshot anyone?) and I don't even have max Serration it's only ninty percent. However this game does take skill, perhaps the AI could use tweaking but the game is not "easy" it's more an issue of players are good.

[Dasmir]

I think alot of you are missing the point of the game. If your just run through missions and get the best mods then ofc its not going to be fun anymore. I assume this game is ment to actually act like ninja's. if you want a challenge, try getting through a mission with no kills or without being seen. improve your skill set and personal abilities. Like the post above me says lol i suck as a ninja so i had to make a frost cause they always see me.

 

theres no reward yet for doing 100% stealth, i know is fun as hell to do it but its really longer than killing everything for the same reward (even less becouse you killed less derp !)

[Emotitron]

Okay, but why is that? What about the game makes experienced Quake players have an easier time than people not used to the genre? Is it twitch headshot skills? Something else?

 

Largely the running and gunning, overall gun accuracy while moving, situational awareness (such as being able to spin around and check your six for ancients mid fight), headshot ratios, and generally being able to shoot in just about any direction while running another do add to the ability to tear apart AI mobs that aren't all that evasive. They also have a lot more time playing this style game and are more intuitively aware of their health conditions and when they are overextended. There also is something that comes with a lot of FPS experience where you learn to quickly pick apart fights with multiple enemies. They are all small things, but they do add up the making this game pretty damn easy.

[qweztu]

Though I haven't been playing for long, I feel that the problem of Warframe is that there's no progression in the types of enemies that we fight. We are regurgitated the same exact enemies and maps and whatever from day 1. AI starts to be stale after a while of fighting the same thing no matter what planet you're on. I have no clue which planet is which on the lobby screen, I just randomly click around until I find the planet that drops what I want or has missions that aren't complete.

[Sknives86]

YOU WANT HARDCORE GAME??? TAKE OFF YOUR MODS THEN...H HAHAHA

[Kiteless]

If we used your suggestion, then EVERY LEVEL WOULD BE A CRYO LEVEL.

 

What part of that don't you understand?

 

Instead of having the option to quit and restart, you'd be forced to run with it because ALL levels would be like that.

 

Cryo is already THE most hated "situation" that can spawn in a level randomly.

 

And you want to make ALL levels like that?

 

lol........

 

 

But Cryo cuts shields more than what I'm proposing. I'm proposing cutting shields to around the 5-600 mark for your average frame. Cryo levels cut max shield potential to the 3-400 level, assuming you've maxed redirection out.

 

If I were to say just to increase enemy damage output, the end result would be largely the same, although you'd lose health faster as well.