Volinus7 Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Don't talk about balance if you cannot state what "balance" is. Anything allowed for such a long period of time is not an exploit it's a "feature". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I did that match not more than 10 hours ago, we really only went for 20 minutes than left, I just kept trying to get maximum overshield, a butcher at 15 minute ate up 200-300 of my shield per swing, when 3 people ganged on me it took less than 5 seconds to go from 2K shields to less than 500. Arguably you can replace the Trinity with another frame like Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm. Anecdotal mistakes on your part have no real weight in an argument. And no. Hydroid would not be enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholyrequiem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I did that match not more than 10 hours ago, we really only went for 20 minutes than left, I just kept trying to get maximum overshield, a butcher at 15 minute ate up 200-300 of my shield per swing, when 3 people ganged on me it took less than 5 seconds to go from 2K shields to less than 500. Arguably you can replace the Trinity with another frame like Hydroid with Pilfering Swarm. I can tell you as someone who does play Hydroid fairly often that by no means can pilfering swarm match Trinity in consistency and overall regeneration. It's simply impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) What word godlike even means then if trinity does not shine in any mission type solo? Did you mis-use it? Game is not built around having the most energy income or taking less damage, it is built around killing or moving faster. Reposting, since OP seems to cherry pick replies to respond to. I'm not talking about survival only. Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? Justify the use of word "godlike" in context of solo trinity play in any mission with comparison to at least 5 other frames in video, otherwise your argument is naked. Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelialFallen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Please read my earlier arguments. I have. They appear to be born of zeal rather than reason. As such, they are altogether irrelevant and dismissable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholyrequiem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I have. They appear to be born of zeal rather than reason. As such, they are altogether irrelevant and dismissable Explain? Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Reposting, since OP seems to cherry pick replies to respond to. I'm not talking about survival only. Justify the use of word "godlike" in context of solo trinity play in any mission with comparison to at least 5 other frames in video, otherwise your argument is naked. Did you miss the 4 times I said... The game is not balanced around how long you can go in T4 solo survival Explain? Please ignore and report delial. He has been trying to get the thread locked from the start. Edited October 13, 2015 by Kolos1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Don't talk about balance if you cannot state what "balance" is. Anything allowed for such a long period of time is not an exploit it's a "feature". He used 10 hours as an argument. By than your 99% DR will be weak as paper. A simple stray bullet can and will wreck anything it touches. These things are called endurance runs, they're not really made for the developers design but people do it because they're allowed to. Like say you trying to fight a final boss at level 52 but you use a level 1 pistol, the game designers didn't design the game for you to do it but you did it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilChaosKnight Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) OP has been long confirmed for lvl 80 question avoiding specialist (and lvl 50 parrot repeating same stuff over and over), idk why people keep feeding him really. This whole topic feels more like... Yea. Trin is fine as she is, let support unit support her team else her existence is pointless. Edited October 13, 2015 by EvilChaosKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Did you miss the 4 times I said... The game is not balanced around how long you can go in T4 solo survival Reposting, since OP seems to cherry pick replies to respond to. I'm NOT talking about survival only. Justify the use of word "godlike" in context of solo trinity play in ANY mission with comparison to at least 5 other frames in video, otherwise your argument is naked. You are officcially getting cornered now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelialFallen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 consumables =/= powers. Irrelevant. The point of contention you brought to the table, friend, when you ceased to concern your arguments about Blessing was how Energy Vampire created a situation that upsets gameplay. I have demonstrated that it cannot be so in a context where there are several other means of energy return. It is far from irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) He used 10 hours as an argument. By than your 99% DR will be weak as paper. A simple stray bullet can and will wreck anything it touches. These things are called endurance runs, they're not really made for the developers design but people do it because they're allowed to. Like say you trying to fight a final boss at level 52 but you use a level 1 pistol, the game designers didn't design the game for you to do it but you did it anyway. Same applies to solo T4 survival runs so please stop using that as an excuse. You are officcially getting cornered now. Show me the post where you weren't talking about solo play. I'd be happy to respond. Edited October 13, 2015 by Kolos1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 OP has been long confirmed for lvl 80 question avoiding specialist (and lvl 50 parrot repeating same stuff over and over), idk why people keep feeding him really. This whole topic feels more like... Yea. Trin is fine as she is, let support unit support her team else her existence is pointless. ^Yeap. Same applies to solo T4 survival runs so please stop using that as an excuse. Show me the post where you weren't talking about solo play. I'd be happy to respond. Hasn't DE stated that end game should have been around 40 waves/minutes so why should I not use it as an argument? I never used the argument about 2 hours, you have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholyrequiem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) The point of contention you brought to the table, friend, when you ceased to concern your arguments about Blessing was how Energy Vampire created a situation that upsets gameplay. I have demonstrated that it cannot be so in a context where there are several other means of energy return. It is far from irrelevant. Did you like incorrectly quote me or something earlier? Or are you going to ignore the fact that you called my argument unsubstantial without evidence or reason? I mean when you say this I would've expected that you would be quoting me after I ask why. Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Same applies to solo T4 survival runs so please stop using that as an excuse. Show me the post where you weren't talking about solo play. I'd be happy to respond. Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? That is your quote in response to ...Also your idea about EV not giving any energy to the caster is dumb as heck. Any solo player will have 1 absolutely useless beyond comprehension ability. You used the word "godlike" in wrong context, i'm trying to fix that. Don't question why trinity is godlike in solo, because she is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game? The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. Consumables do a have a limit and will quickly drain your resources if you use them as often as you would use EV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Let's try to get back on topic without things like Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game? The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. Consumables do a have a limit and will quickly drain your resources if you use them as often as you would use EV. You can actually gain more energy when using Hysteria or WOF than you can lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 That is your quote in response to You used the word "godlike" in wrong context, i'm trying to fix that. Don't question why trinity is godlike in solo, because she is not. I see where things went wrong. You simply misread. I said Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? This does not claim she is godlike this is asking why anyone would want a support frame to be that powerful in a solo situation as well. The game is not balanced only around solo play so whether or not something is good or bad at soloing is irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I see where things went wrong. You simply misread. I said This does not claim she is godlike this is asking why anyone would want a support frame to be that powerful in a solo situation as well. The game is not balanced only around solo play so whether or not something is good or bad at soloing is irrelevant. Saying this is irrelevant, that is irrelevant is weak.Solo play is relevant, whether you acknowledge it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelialFallen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Let's try to get back on topic without things like Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game? The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. Consumables do a have a limit and will quickly drain your resources if you use them as often as you would use EV. It is very much my wish not to derail the thread and to remain quite civil, but alas reading the same argument over and over again as if it was gospel is beginning to become redundantly redundant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I see where things went wrong. You simply misread. I said This does not claim she is godlike this is asking why anyone would want a support frame to be that powerful in a solo situation as well. The game is not balanced only around solo play so whether or not something is good or bad at soloing is irrelevant. Nobody wants her godlike in solo situation, how did the fact that we want to keep ev feeding us energy made you question if we want her to be godlike in solo situation? That is just keeping her as it is, non-godlike in that solo situation, therefore you used the word wrong. As for non solo play: aoe spam is not happening just because we are allowed to, but because we are encouraged to do so by reward system, mission structure and infinite scaling. Nerfing ability will not adress any of these flaws, we will just shift to other abilities more and play more other mission types to maintain high reward to time spent ratio. Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 It is very much my wish not to derail the thread and to remain quite civil, but alas reading the same argument over and over again as if it was gospel is beginning to become redundantly redundant. You haven't given any response to the post. You attack my character or play word games without actually adding anything constructive in an attempt to derail the thread because your favorite frame is being looked at. Please stop and give a real response. Saying this is irrelevant, that is irrelevant is weak. Solo play is relevant, whether you acknowledge it or not. Ok I will take that back. Solo play is a part of the game and is relevant. The problem is not with her solo play. She is very underwhelming. Imo she should be bad at solo play because she is a support frame which makes sense to me. The problem stems from people using Trinity as an exploit to use any and all abilities infinitely. To me that is bad for the game and removes any sort of choice the player has to make. (Do I need to use this ability now? Should I wait until there's more threats.) Things like that. But now you have situations where saryn is spamming miasma to kill one enemy because she's at max energy for 100% of the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unholyrequiem Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) It is very much my wish not to derail the thread and to remain quite civil, but alas reading the same argument over and over again as if it was gospel is beginning to become redundantly redundant. You don't get to pretend you are trying to civil when you ignore arguments as if placing your fingers in your ears and singing to yourself without any supporting statements beyond it seemed Zealous. To tell me to not just target trinity's energy recovering ability when there are other energy recoveries.....when I included them is rather laughable. Then you have the nerve to come across say that you have read my arguments and call them zealous as well as dismissing them.... Edited October 13, 2015 by Unholyrequiem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGs_Knackie Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Let's try to get back on topic without things like Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game? The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. Consumables do a have a limit and will quickly drain your resources if you use them as often as you would use EV. She is alone to restore energy. She is an heal and support, support dude not a DPS so everything is clear with Trinity. You know what support meant? Doubtful. '-' If you won't an energy restore avoid Trinity dude. You do not play her certainly very well otherwise you'd have seen she needs nothing. ;) It is very much my wish not to derail the thread and to remain quite civil, but alas reading the same argument over and over again as if it was gospel is beginning to become redundantly redundant. ^This. You're right. Edited October 13, 2015 by CGs_Knackie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Than it's the players, not the frame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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