Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 Nobody wants her godlike in solo situation, how did the fact that we want to keep ev feeding us energy made you question if we want her to be godlike in solo situation? That is just keeping her as it is, non-godlike in that solo istuation, therefore you used the word wrong. As for non solo play: aoe spam is not happening just because we are allowed to, but because we are encouraged to do so by reward system, mission structure and infinite scaling. Nerfing ability will not adress any of these flaws, we will just shift to other abilities more and play more other mission types to maintain high reward to time spent ratio. I think you're getting way off point. Someone said "If EV didn't restore energy to herself she'd be bad at solo play" "Why should she be good at solo play?" Then you went and took that very wrong for about 2 pages. Let's drop it? I would have to disagree. Even with U18 coming up and enemy scaling is going to be changed and eventually the star chart is going to be reworked as well...Infinite energy will still break the balance because there has to be a cost for using high powerful abilities for there to be balance. That's the point I'm trying to make Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelialFallen Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 You haven't given any response to the post. You attack my character or play word games without actually adding anything constructive in an attempt to derail the thread because your favorite frame is being looked at. Please stop and give a real response. Ok I will take that back. Solo play is a part of the game and is relevant. The problem is not with her solo play. She is very underwhelming. Imo she should be bad at solo play because she is a support frame which makes sense to me. The problem stems from people using Trinity as an exploit to use any and all abilities infinitely. To me that is bad for the game and removes any sort of choice the player has to make. (Do I need to use this ability now? Should I wait until there's more threats.) Things like that. But now you have situations where saryn is spamming miasma to kill one enemy because she's at max energy for 100% of the mission. My favorite frame is Nyx, my most played frame is Valkyr. Now can we stop the childishness and actual begin to be reasonable? As in, using our reasoning. Your line of questioning regarding that drivel with the why is it okay to blah blah is so full of logical fallacy (look it up already, and report me again for bringing it up once more) that insisting it get answered demonstrates a complete and utter lack of logic and reasoning ability. Your entire argumentation is based on nothing and yet you insist those participating in the thread contort themselves and their brains in such a way that you don't knee-jerkingly report us for derailing. And you keep droning on and on and on about the same thing. That, friend, is fanaticism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izzatuw Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I think you're getting way off point. Someone said "If EV didn't restore energy to herself she'd be bad at solo play" "Why should she be good at solo play?" Then you went and took that very wrong for about 2 pages. Let's drop it? I would have to disagree. Even with U18 coming up and enemy scaling is going to be changed and eventually the star chart is going to be reworked as well...Infinite energy will still break the balance because there has to be a cost for using high powerful abilities for there to be balance. That's the point I'm trying to make WHY SHOULDN'T SHE?!?!*ahem* Because it would horribly break diversity, no game, no character whatsoever should never be bad in solo play. In Borderlands 2, there is no vault hunter that can't be played in solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I think you're getting way off point. Someone said "If EV didn't restore energy to herself she'd be bad at solo play" "Why should she be good at solo play?" Then you went and took that very wrong for about 2 pages. Let's drop it? I would have to disagree. Even with U18 coming up and enemy scaling is going to be changed and eventually the star chart is going to be reworked as well...Infinite energy will still break the balance because there has to be a cost for using high powerful abilities for there to be balance. That's the point I'm trying to make I didn't took that very wrong, "would be bad" does not mean she is godlike right now, just bearable at solo, and your question "Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? " identified your opinion on her current solo ability by the use of word "godlike" which is extremely far from being objective and I pointed that out. As for scaling and starchart rework, lets wait for it first then change frames, one step after another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) I didn't took that very wrong, "would be bad" does not mean she is godlike right now, just bearable at solo, and your question "Why do you want a support frame to be godlike as a solo frame as well? " identified your opinion on her current solo ability by the use of word "godlike" which is extremely far from being objective and I pointed that out. As for scaling and starchart rework, lets wait for it first then change frames, one step after another. You're making assumption about what I wrote. False ones. I'm sorry but you have simply misinterpreted what I said. Either one of two things will happen. 1)The system is so messed up that having a trin in every team is mandatory. 2)Infinite energy will still break the game. Edited October 13, 2015 by Kolos1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 You're making assumption about what I wrote. False ones. I'm sorry but you have simply misinterpreted what I said. Either one of two things will happen. 1)The system is so messed up that having a trin in every team is mandatory. 2)Infinite energy will still break the game. You said that like it breaks the game now, while it just provides a viable option for a limited number of situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 You said that like it breaks the game now, while it just provides a viable option for a limited number of situations. That's not all it does. You're downplaying the ability to a ridiculous degree. It gives you inf energy in all situations where there are enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) That's not all it does. You're downplaying the ability to a ridiculous degree. It gives you inf energy in all situations where there are enemies. And how it breaks the game exactly? Enemies don't die from you having infinite energy, objectives don't complete itself. Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 And how it breaks the game exactly? Enemies don't die from you having infinite energy. Technically I did post how EV can kill almost anything in the game. And since you're playing semantics I'll leave it at that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Technically I did post how EV can kill almost anything in the game. And since you're playing semantics I'll leave it at that. I'm asking again, how does that break the game? Should not we be able to kill anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 --- 2)Infinite energy will still break the game. --- --- Technically I did post how EV can kill almost anything in the game. You forgot to mention the game breaking aspect of having infinite energy in every situation with enemies around where you will be more efficient with just 25 here and there. Don't avoid that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 I'm asking again, how does that break the game? Should not we be able to kill anything? Maybe you missed it Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game? The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Maybe you missed it Why is being able to use powerful abilities with no cost ok for the game?The point of expensive abilities are that you use your resources to get a big effect. Making those big effects cost nothing destroys the balance of the game. As I said that is only viable option in small number of situations and doesn't break the game, we can do absolutely fine and most of the time even better without ev in any mission up to enemy level 100, that is how far balanced content goes. Why do you want to remove balanced option? Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 As I said that is only viable option in small number of situations and doesn't break the game, we can do absolutely fine and most of the time even better without ev in any mission up to enemy level 100, that is how far balanced content goes. Why do you want to remove balanced option? Because it's equivalent to an exploit. It is not balanced. Infinite energy for everyone is not just a "viable option" Yes you can do everything fine without EV but then you have to actually choose when to use skills. With EV not only is it "fine" it's laughable. Letting players spam their strongest abilities as inefficiently as possible(Letting saryn use miasma on literally nothing) with absolutely no drawback is broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NovusNova Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 This thread is currently on "last chance" saloon. If you keep derailing the thread, it will be locked (feedback will still be visible to DE) and people derailing the thread will be warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Because it's equivalent to an exploit. It is not balanced. Infinite energy for everyone is not just a "viable option" Yes you can do everything fine without EV but then you have to actually choose when to use skills. With EV not only is it "fine" it's laughable. Letting players spam their strongest abilities as inefficiently as possible(Letting saryn use miasma on literally nothing) with absolutely no drawback is broken. No, I don't need to choose when to use skills for 90% of the time and just put an energy plate for the rest 10%. However there is less frames to choose from and BR is not usually maxed if present at all. Infinite energy does not accomplish anything by itself, or you can call any persistent regeneration an exploit, because you have infinite health. As it is Trinity provides options and makes your variety of choices richer. Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 No, I don't need to choose when to use skills for 90% of the time and just put an energy plate for the rest 10%. However there is less frames to choose from and BR is not usually maxed if present at all. Infinite energy does not accomplish anything by itself, or you can call any persistent regeneration an exploit, because you have infinite health. Energy plates still have a cost. You can't use them forever. You can't bring an infinite number of them. Energy regeneration is extremely different because you're not filling your entire energy pool instantly like you do with EV. If EV actually gave you energy regeneration instead of a flat amount back then it would be better. You can't spam miasma/mol prime/disarm with just regeneration. You have still have to wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Energy plates still have a cost. You can't use them forever. You can't bring an infinite number of them. Energy regeneration is extremely different because you're not filling your entire energy pool instantly like you do with EV. If EV actually gave you energy regeneration instead of a flat amount back then it would be better. You can't spam miasma/mol prime/disarm with just regeneration. You have still have to wait. There is no need for infinite amount of energy plates, because we take different, less energy dependant, self-sufficient or synergized frames and builds without Trinity. There is no need to spam miasma/mol prime/disarm when everything dies so quickly with 4th squad slot filled with some additional damage/cc frame. Trinity takes valuable squad slot, don't forget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 There is no need for infinite amount of energy plates, because we take different, less energy dependant, self-sufficient or synergized frames and builds without Trinity. There is no need to spam miasma/mol prime/disarm when everything dies so quickly with 4th squad slot filled with some additional damage/cc frame. Trinity takes valuable squad slot, don't forget. I don't think saying trinity is balanced because she takes up a squad slot is helpful in any way. She facilitates the abuse of power spamming with no drawback. To me that is extremely unbalanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 I don't think saying trinity is balanced because she takes up a squad slot is helpful in any way. She facilitates the abuse of power spamming with no drawback. To me that is extremely unbalanced. That is just an option which doesn't provide noticeably greater efficiency in balanced part of content, therefore your opinion is heavily subjective. I think we shouldn't build feedback on subjectivism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 That is just an option which doesn't provide noticeably greater efficiency in balanced part of content, therefore your opinion is heavily subjective. I think we shouldn't build feedback on subjectivism. First EV is essential in the most efficient and effective ways of playing. Second all feedback is subjective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) First EV is essential in the most efficient and effective ways of playing. Second all feedback is subjective. Mind telling some of the ways of effective playing with essential EV? I can't recall when I was playing with EV trinity last time aside from raid and draco. And even in these two situations Trin is just a qol thing. ----- I remembered, that was during cryotic front event, we were going as far as possible into unbalanced content by using that 2 second kill combo. After that excal was nerfed. Edited October 13, 2015 by Trvldl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolos1001 Posted October 13, 2015 Author Share Posted October 13, 2015 (edited) Mind telling some of the ways of effective playing with essential EV? I can't recall when I was playing with EV trinity last time aside from raid and draco. And even in these two situations Trin is just a qol thing. Raids being gimmicked with EV+CC Defense EV+infinite frost globe Survival EV+vortex+mol prime+desecrate Draco EV+miasma Infested Def EV+vortex/bastille Capture WoL+EV autokill Exterminate EV+Miasma Should I keep going and list everything in the game? Edited October 13, 2015 by Kolos1001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trvldl Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Raids being gimmicked with EV+CC Defense EV+infinite frost globe Survival EV+vortex+mol prime+desecrate Draco EV+miasma Infested Def EV+vortex/bastille Capture WoL+EV autokill Exterminate EV+Miasma Should I keep going and list everything in the game? Yeah, raids made you spend up to 20 plates sometimes as bomb carrier, usually it is 10. Limbo. Or efficient frost, you know, 2 max eff globes are better than 1 max str. Your meta is old and busted. There is whole lot of frames to bring: excal, valkyr, ember, hydroid, volt, chroma, maybe atlas too now, who knows. We have other means of getting affinity and standing, such as smoke screen augment and going stealth melee with any frame, also Draco does not solve archwing. Infested are open to any form of cc, there is no need to fill whole tile with bastilles and vortexes, takes 25-50 energy per wave in balanced part of content. Some frames can both cc and kill them at the same time. Capture is a joke, mirage or loki already digitize the target by the time trin is there. Exterminate can be done faster with ember and saryn, why waste valuable slot for the frame that would not even find a target to ev. Yes, please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CGs_MoYz Posted October 13, 2015 Share Posted October 13, 2015 Should I keep going and list everything in the game? Please be our guest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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