Mag's Pull

[Malkav]

I have to say I've only played 3 frames so far. But this skill is just awsome.Reasons:

1.if you like melee, just use pull on a far away enemy and charge your attack, the stun gives just enough time to cast it properly

2.You can pull a boss from it's spawn area to another room, where your team can handle him properly

3.you can pull a downed teammate from a hotspot to revive him (a toxic ancient, an army of CC, a boss or laser door)

4. It's a quick way to disrupt enemies (the shockwave moa stun still finishes it's sequence though, but in it's original location not to where you pulled it (this mnight be a bug))

5.trolling :D (pulling teamates into laser doors, to the extraction point if you are in a hurry (this one just rocks, no more waiting for teammates if you checked the rooms and are just waiting for them to come), into fires etc.

6.pulling in key targets so your team or yourself can handle them without being shot at

7.pulling enemies into hazzards: fires and bottomless pits

8.using pulled enemies as flesh shields against incoming fire (can anyone ferify that this works, I'm not sure).

9. Pulling enemy balistic shields away from them .Thank you Aurores for remining me.

If anyone has more tips on how to use pull, please post them I'll add them to the list and give you credit for it.

Also if anyone has any reasons why this isn't the currently most versatile skill, please share.

PS. PLEASE DON'T NERF IT! T_T

Edited January 21, 2013 by Malkav

[Sealgaire]

Reverse psychology,eh? It really does need a boost, though. At least let me pull enemies over railings to their doom, the skill is begging for it!

[Malkav]

Reverse psychology,eh? It really does need a boost, though. At least let me pull enemies over railings to their doom, the skill is begging for it!

But that wouldn't be a pull, it would be more of a toss. Though I feel the same way and wouldn't mind if it just stayed as it is.

[direcyphre]

Pulling enemies over railing would be pretty cool! It would make perfect sense considering how often they hide beyond low cover like that.

[Cerbis]

I'm with Sealgaire on this, I want Pull to be able to tug enemies over low cover.

[Malkav]

I had an idea, maybe u guys would like it.

What if when an enemy you pulled hits an obstacle it takes dmg?

[Namacyst]

How about a combo attack pull + melee directly afterwards resulting in an instant kill for normal mobs like pulling a mob onto you sword, you staff or whatever..

[Malkav]

How about a combo attack pull + melee directly afterwards resulting in an instant kill for normal mobs like pulling a mob onto you sword, you staff or whatever..

A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing

[MJ12]

A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing

Um, why?

I mean even the much-maligned Shuriken and Fireball skills, which are single-target and extremely weak compared to say, every other offensive skill, instantly kill normal mobs.

[Yutty]

The pull is horrible, i got rid of the mag as soon as i got all the parts for a different warframe

[Malkav]

The pull is horrible, i got rid of the mag as soon as i got all the parts for a different warframe

Thats just a bad way to treat a frame, I bet u didn't even give it a chance, let alone experiment

[Malkav]

Um, why?

I mean even the much-maligned Shuriken and Fireball skills, which are single-target and extremely weak compared to say, every other offensive skill, instantly kill normal mobs.

Shuriken, shock and firebal all have their high dmg perks, but I think pull is the only first skill that can find it's way into every situation. Strategically it's on parallel with lokis swap, but it has one crutial advantage: you don't have to be in the hazzard or situation you want the target to be pulled into. If you take some power range mods you get greater range, BUT the target is only pulled to the distance your skill has, which with pracice can be used in many ways (still looking into this use but theoretically it has potential).

Why the combo/timing? well it's just not realistic enough if you do it the easy way :3

Edited January 20, 2013 by Malkav

[Elantira]

I have to say I've only played 3 frames so far. But this skill is just awsome.Reasons:

1.if you like melee, just use pull on a far away enemy and charge your attack, the stun gives just enough time to cast it properly

2.You can pull a boss from it's spawn area to another room, where your team can handle him properly

3.you can pull a downed teammate from a hotspot to revive him (a toxic ancient, an army of CC, a boss or laser door)

4. It's a quick way to disrupt enemies (the shockwave moa stun still finishes it's sequence though, but in it's original location not to where you pulled it (this mnight be a bug))

5.trolling :D (pulling teamates into laser doors, to the extraction point if you are in a hurry (this one just rocks, no more waiting for teammates if you checked the rooms and are just waiting for them to come), into fires etc.

6.pulling in key targets so your team or yourself can handle them without being shot at

7. pulling enemies into hazzards: fires and bottomless pits

If anyone has more tips on how to use pull, please post them I'll add them to the list and give you credit for it.

Also if anyone has any reasons why this isn't the currently most versatile skill, please share.

PS. PLEASE DON'T NERF IT! T_T

5> use it on a charging excalibur to get him stuck (happened only once, dno if it was a one time thing or a bug :):) )

Edited January 20, 2013 by Elantira

[MJ12]

Shuriken, shock and firebal all have their high dmg perks, but I think pull is the only first skill that can find it's way into every situation. Strategically it's on parallel with lokis swap, but it has one crutial advantage: you don't have to be in the hazzard or situation you want the target to be pulled into. If you take some power range mods you get greater range, BUT the target is only pulled to the distance your skill has, which with pracice can be used in many ways (still looking into this use but theoretically it has potential).

Why the combo/timing? well it's just not realistic enough if you do it the easy way :3

So Pull should be made less effective than already-very-weak skills because... you're a masochist? I'm not quite understanding this idea.

Look, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, Overload, Fireball, and Shuriken are always useful in pretty much any situation because they deal direct damage, ranging from 'some' to 'did I just see ten guys disintegrate'. You could have an argument for Slash Dash/Rhino Charge in situations where you have elevation changes or spacing preventing you from dashing across and murdering everything, but then you still have Overload, Fireball, and Shuriken.

Which kill one or more people per cast if you can aim them, and don't require some kind of timing based combo minigame to do that. Hell, Shuriken can kill weaker heavy units (like Ancients) with a headshot.

[Malkav]

So Pull should be made less effective than already-very-weak skills because... you're a masochist? I'm not quite understanding this idea.

Look, Slash Dash, Rhino Charge, Overload, Fireball, and Shuriken are always useful in pretty much any situation because they deal direct damage, ranging from 'some' to 'did I just see ten guys disintegrate'. You could have an argument for Slash Dash/Rhino Charge in situations where you have elevation changes or spacing preventing you from dashing across and murdering everything, but then you still have Overload, Fireball, and Shuriken.

Which kill one or more people per cast if you can aim them, and don't require some kind of timing based combo minigame to do that. Hell, Shuriken can kill weaker heavy units (like Ancients) with a headshot.

Why must skills be revolved around damage? I mean I'd rather use my first skill to pull a boss into an allready cleared room and kill him without having to handle the minions than having a skill that "just" deals damage.

Don't you have enough ways to shoot, stab, slam, slice, electrocute, burn, stomp and generally kill anything that you can't aknowledge the use of a skill that changes gameplay and adds more tactical options than just damage?

Honestly since I got mag I've been using it's first skill more than on any other frame,

[MJ12]

Why must skills be revolved around damage? I mean I'd rather use my first skill to pull a boss into an allready cleared room and kill him without having to handle the minions than having a skill that "just" deals damage.

Don't you have enough ways to shoot, stab, slam, slice, electrocute, burn, stomp and generally kill anything that you can't aknowledge the use of a skill that changes gameplay and adds more tactical options than just damage?

Honestly since I got mag I've been using it's first skill more than on any other frame,

Let me quote you.

"A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing". You're saying that it should be harder to deal direct damage with Pull because of some... arbitrary reason. People who use underpowered equipment often have this irrational bias that because they learned how to make something underpowered not suck as bad, so everyone have to suffer through the underpoweredness of the skill.

Also, since I got Ember and Ash I've been using their first skills more than on Rhino and Excalibur. You know why? BECAUSE THEY SUCK. And thus I need more casts of the first skill to do anything worthwhile. "Using it more often" is just as often a sign of weakness as it is strength.

[Malkav]

Let me quote you.

"A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing". You're saying that it should be harder to deal direct damage with Pull because of some... arbitrary reason. People who use underpowered equipment often have this irrational bias that because they learned how to make something underpowered not suck as bad, so everyone have to suffer through the underpoweredness of the skill.

Also, since I got Ember and Ash I've been using their first skills more than on Rhino and Excalibur. You know why? BECAUSE THEY SUCK. And thus I need more casts of the first skill to do anything worthwhile. "Using it more often" is just as often a sign of weakness as it is strength.

"A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing" Because logically you could impale a fast moving enemy on your melee using pull, but missing it by a tenth of a second would cause you to be hit by a 200 kg greneer, that's why you need a combo or some skill involved. I'm not the kind of player that likes using generic damage skills, just another copy of a copy if you ask me. I'd rather think my way out of a situation than use OP equipment and skills, why you ask? Simple, I like to be chalenged I like to challenge the game, dancing on the edge, not wasting my time with something repetitive. If I liked repetetive things I would certanly love washing the dishes, cleaning, ironing, but thats not something i like, that's someting i have to do. Unlike playing games which I can do and I should enjoy it, not just as a way to pass time and have fun but a way to think and exercise my brain. Don't tell me you are the type of player that likes playing a game on easy just so he can feel like a god? But maybe that's just me. Maybe, just maybe, Mag is a frame for people who like to think...

Edited January 20, 2013 by Malkav

[MJ12]

"A combo for that would be nice (cause it would be just too easy if you just press 1 then E) that requires timing" Because logically you could impale a fast moving enemy on your melee using pull, but missing it by a tenth of a second would cause you to be hit by a 200 kg greneer, that's why you need a combo or some skill involved. I'm not the kind of player that likes using generic damage skills, just another copy of a copy if you ask me. I'd rather think my way out of a situation than use OP equipment and skills, why you ask? Simple, I like to be chalenged I like to challenge the game, dancing on the edge, not wasting my time with something repetitive. If I liked repetetive things I would certanly love washing the dishes, cleaning, ironing, but thats not something i like, that's someting i have to do. Unlike playing games which I can do and I should enjoy it, not just as a way to pass time and have fun but a way to think and exercise my brain. Don't tell me you are the type of player that likes playing a game on easy just so he can feel like a god? But maybe that's just me. Maybe, just maybe, Mag is a frame for people who like to think...

And logically the magnetic field strength needed to attract bullets to a target would also exsanguinate it. This means Mag's third skill should instantly kill whatever you cast it on. Including bosses. Why should I, if I want to play Mag, have to 'use more skill' to get the exact same result underpowered Warframes like Ember and Ash get?

I can think and exercise my brain fine. This thinking leads me to go "why should I use Mag if I need to have more precise timing and better luck than Ash or Ember to get effectiveness out of my first skill, and Ash and Ember already have huge problems with underpowered first skills". The result of this is "I really shouldn't, because it's pointless." This is actual thinking. All you're doing is justifying a crappy skill with the delusion that it 'needs more thinking' and that anyone who doesn't like the fact that it's crappy as 'wanting to play easy mode'.

Look, I maxed out Rhino and Excalibur already, I could play 'easy mode' all I want. Except the thing is, their 'easy mode' is nothing of the sort. They actually force the player to make a decision between 'using powers' and 'using guns'. Same with Volt.

Ember, Ash, and Mag all have significant problems with this. Why should I use Pull when I could just shoot the guy instead and get the same end result 99 times out of 100 (enemy no longer can do damage to me) way faster and with less effort? You are not answering the important question. If this question cannot be answered well, Pull should be buffed, and Mag should be buffed in general.

"Mag is a frame for people who like to think" is simultaneously condescending and completely wrong. I don't have to 'think' any more with a weaker Warframe, I just have to remember my powers are kind of crap and save up for my Ultimate. How is that thinking? When I was running Rhino and Excalibur I had to wonder whether I should Slash Dash/Charge now or if I should save up for other powers because there was a legitimate debate between those two choices. Having a power that's really hard to use to the point where you basically have to justify its existence with "Well, you have guns to deal damage" is not good design, nor is it even remotely defensible as anything other than an accidental balance whoopsie.

[sambarpowder]

Ragdoll. That is all.

[Malkav]

And logically the magnetic field strength needed to attract bullets to a target would also exsanguinate it. This means Mag's third skill should instantly kill whatever you cast it on. Including bosses. Why should I, if I want to play Mag, have to 'use more skill' to get the exact same result underpowered Warframes like Ember and Ash get?

I can think and exercise my brain fine. This thinking leads me to go "why should I use Mag if I need to have more precise timing and better luck than Ash or Ember to get effectiveness out of my first skill, and Ash and Ember already have huge problems with underpowered first skills". The result of this is "I really shouldn't, because it's pointless." This is actual thinking. All you're doing is justifying a crappy skill with the delusion that it 'needs more thinking' and that anyone who doesn't like the fact that it's crappy as 'wanting to play easy mode'.

Look, I maxed out Rhino and Excalibur already, I could play 'easy mode' all I want. Except the thing is, their 'easy mode' is nothing of the sort. They actually force the player to make a decision between 'using powers' and 'using guns'. Same with Volt.

Ember, Ash, and Mag all have significant problems with this. Why should I use Pull when I could just shoot the guy instead and get the same end result 99 times out of 100 (enemy no longer can do damage to me) way faster and with less effort? You are not answering the important question. If this question cannot be answered well, Pull should be buffed, and Mag should be buffed in general.

"Mag is a frame for people who like to think" is simultaneously condescending and completely wrong. I don't have to 'think' any more with a weaker Warframe, I just have to remember my powers are kind of crap and save up for my Ultimate. How is that thinking? When I was running Rhino and Excalibur I had to wonder whether I should Slash Dash/Charge now or if I should save up for other powers because there was a legitimate debate between those two choices. Having a power that's really hard to use to the point where you basically have to justify its existence with "Well, you have guns to deal damage" is not good design, nor is it even remotely defensible as anything other than an accidental balance whoopsie.

Your trying to imply that magnetize would draw all the iron from the blood to the point that it rips flesh and armor, but with that much magnetic force you would probablly rip a hole in the ships hull. Just like Volts overload would destroy the whole ship just like crsuh would snap the spines and rip the organs of everything living cought in it's radius, even pull if not aimed at the whole body of a target but instead at a part of the body like the head, ribcage or heart would insta kill anything, but ithats not the point is it? pull is defined as a skill that does a specific action, whichc is pulling enemies and teamates to you. which means it can be used both as a defensive skill and as an offensive one (you can also troll and such, but that ain't the point) meaning it's a skill that helps you change the battlefield. Sure you can easily dispatch the minions, but in a boss fight or against any stronger opponent it can save your teammates and you. Shame on you for thinking that skils should only be used on opponents, my mag is only lvl 18 and still I have saved my teammates lives several times just by using pull. Thats not the only way to use it though, tactically it can disect the enemies position. Which leads to more classic MMORPG feel where players would pull targets one by one so they could dispatch them without causing agro. Sure at the current level of the game it feels weak, but try imagining when the levels become even harder and you can't just rush in guns blazing. I'm sure you understand the concepts behind strategy and tactics. So please hear me out. At some point of the game where everything becomes even harder, the defensive skills will play a bigger role. I can imagine that at some point the mag would have to give specific instructions to the team just so they could preform a complex manuver they usually cannot.

Would you feel the same way about loki who has no skills that deal direct damage yet people are still playing him. Why you ask, it's called thinking outside the box, not everything is about damage. At some point of the game you'll probablly possess enough skill to think " well I can't get any better than this, what's left to improve now?" the answer would be tactics, not just how well you shoot your gun or cast your skills, but where you are what are you doing, how are you helping your team. This aplies to all sorts of competitive activities including martial arts, gaming and let's not forget warfare. Heck even a pro basketball player wouldn't be much without his team.

I don't care about Rhino and Excalibur they seemed like overpowered frames from the start. So Either all the other frames will get overpowered to balance things or they would get nerfed. Either way I can't directly control that so I started a thread where people would share their ideas on how to use pull, and trust me every day I use it in a diffrent way, some for fun, some for the win. The truth is Mag is a frame that can't be fully utilized without a team. The only skill on mag that I think should be buffed is Sheild polarize, where there should be an option to increase you own shields, not just your allies or your enemies. Ember never seemed like a frame I would use cause all her skills deal damage and none can manipulate the surroundings. Ash is great, but only because of his Smoke screen and Teleport.

And the combo I was talking about would be available to all the frames, but only mag could use it with pull. An impaling motion that would need to be properly timed to be succsesfully combined with pull. The idea behind an enemy coming to you at high speed and stabing it at the precise moment to stop it's it's momentum and deal more damage is awsome, because I can imagine it being used in varying situations. Just because Mag has a skill that would intentionally fling someone towards it makes it all the merrier.

I just can't comprehend why do I have to go to such lengths to explain a very simple concept that has many uses. When it's obvious that a damaging skill without a status effect has only one!

[Malkav]

5> use it on a charging excalibur to get him stuck (happened only once, dno if it was a one time thing or a bug :):) )

There's one more but I wouldn't recommend it. Play with a friend, take Energy Siphon, when you get to extraction stand on the stairs and pull him whenever the timer reaches 10 seconds or less (depends on how good you are and how much lag you are having). You can make him rage quit. Don't forget to tease him in the meantime. ^_^

I still haven't done this and I'm not sure it's smart if I post this, but someone would have figured this one out sooner or later...

[MetaMortred]

I made this thread a few days ago, I have given the link to the devs, fill it out hopefully they will check it out and add our ideas there.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/4858-mag-feedback-and-suggestions-power-overhaul-save-mag/

I will add any ideas you make to the main post. So it is quiet neat and clean. Check it out and let me know what you think.

[MJ12]

Your trying to imply that magnetize would draw all the iron from the blood to the point that it rips flesh and armor, but with that much magnetic force you would probablly rip a hole in the ships hull. Just like Volts overload would destroy the whole ship just like crsuh would snap the spines and rip the organs of everything living cought in it's radius, even pull if not aimed at the whole body of a target but instead at a part of the body like the head, ribcage or heart would insta kill anything, but ithats not the point is it?

So you admit that realism is irrelevant in this case, right? You do realize that's the entire point of what I was saying?

pull is defined as a skill that does a specific action, whichc is pulling enemies and teamates to you. which means it can be used both as a defensive skill and as an offensive one (you can also troll and such, but that ain't the point) meaning it's a skill that helps you change the battlefield. Sure you can easily dispatch the minions, but in a boss fight or against any stronger opponent it can save your teammates and you. Shame on you for thinking that skils should only be used on opponents, my mag is only lvl 18 and still I have saved my teammates lives several times just by using pull. Thats not the only way to use it though, tactically it can disect the enemies position.

Where did I say "skills should only be used on opponents"? Where did I say Pull shouldn't be targetable on allies? I said Pull was underpowered and I have a friend who plays Mag who feels the same way.

(Well, except for the fact that given you listed 'trolling' as some of the 'advantages' of this skill you clearly shouldn't be allowed to keep it)

Which leads to more classic MMORPG feel where players would pull targets one by one so they could dispatch them without causing agro. Sure at the current level of the game it feels weak, but try imagining when the levels become even harder and you can't just rush in guns blazing. I'm sure you understand the concepts behind strategy and tactics. So please hear me out. At some point of the game where everything becomes even harder, the defensive skills will play a bigger role. I can imagine that at some point the mag would have to give specific instructions to the team just so they could preform a complex manuver they usually cannot.

You are spending a lot of time pretending that a skill having extremely niche uses makes it good when it takes up 25% of the frame's four power slots. This is not convincing anyone that this power is some kind of useful thing that doesn't need to be buffed.

FYI: I have gotten to Pluto. I have cleared Pluto missions with a Lv13 Ash. (Yes I had proed weapons, I'm not that much of a masochist).

Would you feel the same way about loki who has no skills that deal direct damage yet people are still playing him. Why you ask, it's called thinking outside the box, not everything is about damage. At some point of the game you'll probablly possess enough skill to think " well I can't get any better than this, what's left to improve now?" the answer would be tactics, not just how well you shoot your gun or cast your skills, but where you are what are you doing, how are you helping your team. This aplies to all sorts of competitive activities including martial arts, gaming and let's not forget warfare. Heck even a pro basketball player wouldn't be much without his team.

Why are you so bad at defending your position or attacking mine? My position wasn't "PULL SHOULD BE MADE SO THAT IT CAN'T MANIPULATE THE BATTLEFIELD!" My position is that any direct damage Pull provides should be immediate, easily targeted, and powerful. And maybe if you use it on friendlies it should also restore shields.

But Loki isn't underpowered. You know why? Because he has extremely useful powers. Decoy's ability to literally eliminate any enemy threat heading your way for a few seconds is life-saving. Switch teleport is underpowered but eh. Maybe they'll change its cost. Invis is pretty awesome. And Radial Disarm is a ridiculously good way of eliminating an entire room full of enemies by forcing them to chase you in melee and walk into your sword/axe/staff.

I don't care about Rhino and Excalibur they seemed like overpowered frames from the start. So Either all the other frames will get overpowered to balance things or they would get nerfed. Either way I can't directly control that so I started a thread where people would share their ideas on how to use pull, and trust me every day I use it in a diffrent way, some for fun, some for the win. The truth is Mag is a frame that can't be fully utilized without a team. The only skill on mag that I think should be buffed is Sheild polarize, where there should be an option to increase you own shields, not just your allies or your enemies. Ember never seemed like a frame I would use cause all her skills deal damage and none can manipulate the surroundings. Ash is great, but only because of his Smoke screen and Teleport.

You started a thread implying that Pull was overpowered and whining "PLEASE DON'T NERF IT T_T". Someone suggested that pulling someone directly to you should kill them. You thought this should require 'skill'. I chimed in pointing out that doing so would make Pull less powerful in a direct damage role than already extremely underpowered skills. And then you spent this whole time arguing that no, it wouldn't, because REALISM or arguing complete irrelevancies like how it has utility uses.

Well yes it has utility. That's the only reason dealing only single target damage is acceptable!

And the combo I was talking about would be available to all the frames, but only mag could use it with pull. An impaling motion that would need to be properly timed to be succsesfully combined with pull. The idea behind an enemy coming to you at high speed and stabing it at the precise moment to stop it's it's momentum and deal more damage is awsome, because I can imagine it being used in varying situations. Just because Mag has a skill that would intentionally fling someone towards it makes it all the merrier.

You know what's even more awesome? Not having to actually have "precise timing" in a game with lag to do this. Single-target direct damage is pretty weak, I would accept it for Pull because it has utility uses. Still expensive but hey, if people like you don't think it's underpowered who am I to disagree (until every other frame gets powers worth using and you start whining about how it's underpowered, at which point I can go "You brought this onto yourself"). Yes, this combo wouldn't be available to all the frames, but only Mag could use it with pull.

That is totally awesome. Let me imagine a Tenno meeting.

MAG: "Look guys! I know a new trick! I can pull someone torwards me and stab them if I stab them at the right time!"

EMBER: *yawn* "Really now? So you can actually hurt things. Man I could do that years ago, and it's still weak. But at least if I miss with Fireball I don't get knocked on my &#! for a second and take a bunch of damage."

ASH: *yawn* "Like Shuriken, for example? Except my shurikens are already weak but they at least ignore armor, have long range, and don't need HYPER PRECISE TIMING. Seriously? That doesn't even count as a trick."

LOKI: "Tell me when you get a real power instead of a parlor trick."

If you do not understand the point the point is that if someone wants to use Pull as a direct damage power it should be a simple and effective direct damage power without requiring 'combos' or even pressing E.

I just can't comprehend why do I have to go to such lengths to explain a very simple concept that has many uses. When it's obvious that a damaging skill without a status effect has only one!

I just can't comprehend why you think you are doing anything but repeatedly. Missing. The. Point.

[Yutty]

Thats just a bad way to treat a frame, I bet u didn't even give it a chance, let alone experiment

You act like there was no Wait time to find/build all the components for the rino and that I had no other max frame that I was bored to with. Anyways the mag pull is extremely weak. Anything in its way just blocks someone from getting pulled lossing that strong "force pull" feeling. Want to pull sumone over up on a ledge thats shooting you nope can't. The other powers are also pretty lacklustee and I'd assume the 4th would be good by the description but if I aint having fun leveling the mag why countinue instead of selling it and playing a funner warframe.

[Kilikaji]

Just started using mag today, thanks for the list of things you could do with pull. Didnt know you could pull teammates with it, that gives some added utility. Although hard to imagine many scenarios where itd be useful to do so, other then to revive someone.