Bringing Back Arcane Helmets For New Players

[TheBrsrkr]

Ok, lets do that. What other plausible options do you think we could have, besides ignoring the problem?

We could integrate the stats into the new arcane system where applicable, and simply give the owners of Arcanes maxed versions of that arcane by default. Maybe slightly tone them down first, and remove the ones for efficiency, because it would quickly become the new meta.

[Acidulant]

All old arcanes should have been account-bound or removed

But it's too late

[Amazerath]

It doesn't link to Excal Prime. At all. Excalibur Prime was not a thing you could get for free. Stop. I disagree because you clearly are wrong.

 

Ok, then let's explain this a bit better since you are still talking about it:

 

"Excalibur Prime was not free". <- This is true.

 

"Arcane helmets were free". <- This is false.

 

Maybe to you the helmets were all free, but certainly not for everyone. People have been trading arcanes for a really long time now. They sell for a lot, or at least used to. That's likely thousands (or more) of platinum being exchanged, which equates to real money being spent. How much money? I have no idea, but neither does DE.

 

So, founders bought packs and ordinary players bought helmets. I don't see the difference that makes it ok to stab one of those in the back. DE never warned them arcane helmets would be removed. And DE has absolutely no way of tracking all this. Therefore, they cannot compensate people who have bought arcane helmets with real money.

 

Just like Excalibur Prime cannot be removed from the game, arcane helmets also cannot simply disappear. Real money has switched hands and the transactions cannot be undone. Whether you think that is a problem or not is up to you. I think it is a very serious one.

[Kuestenjung]

No... this is the reason why they removed them from the market...

 

We shouldn't have to choose between the two. This is why we have a modding system and customisation that is separate now.

 

Yes we should have to choose. DE removed them because of whiny people and people will allways whine no matter what.

 

You are saying "don´t compare founders stuff with arcane helmets", but you are comparing the mod system with it? 

[Acidulant]

Ok, then let's explain this a bit better since you are still talking about it:

"Excalibur Prime was not free". <- This is true.

"Arcane helmets were free". <- This is false.

Maybe to you the helmets were all free, but certainly not for everyone. People have been trading arcanes for a really long time now. They sell for a lot, or at least used to. That's likely thousands (or more) of platinum being exchanged, which equates to real money being spent. How much money? I have no idea, but neither does DE.

So, founders bought packs and ordinary players bought helmets. I don't see the difference that makes it ok to stab one of those in the back. DE never warned them arcane helmets would be removed. And DE has absolutely no way of tracking all this. Therefore, they cannot compensate people who have bought arcane helmets with real money.

Just like Excalibur Prime cannot be removed from the game, arcane helmets also cannot simply disappear. Real money has switched hands and the transactions cannot be undone. Whether you think that is a problem or not is up to you. I think it is a very serious one.

Actually according to EULA, DE has no legal bound preventing them from removing arcanes at their will

It's just matter of customer satisfaction

Afaik

[Fluff-E-Kitty]

I disagree and thing thay should stay. 

I collected all of them. I dont use most of them.

By this logic, All vandels and other event things should be removed, and that wont go over well.

[Leavith]

I like how you just took a snippit of text from that post and then proceeded to make a huge arguement about it, when the most important part was missed out  xD

 

But OK, I'll humor you.

 

I never said ANYTHING about telling people to stop using them. I think you grossly missed the point. It is undeniably unfair to lock access of once free content to new players. The folk that bought the helmets in the past could have just waited to get them from alerts. I repeat - They were free content. They should be treated like event rewards are now, where they can be returned in new events.

 

This isn't about me. It's about others. But hey, warp the reality that this isn't a problem and keep on telling me that I'm a whiner.

 

Every time this thread has been brought up (and i hasn't for a while), new players get shot down with the classic "NO, YOU WERE TOO LATE, YOU DESERVE IT FOR BEING SLOW". Typical self entitlement like this is gross. We should share out toys, not covet them like spoiled children.

 

 

 

 

As above. Share our toys with those who don't have them.

 

 

Old Arcanes are S#&$? Tell that to Arcane Aura, Arcane vanguard, etc.

 

That said, I'm glad you agree the stats are stupid and shouldn't be there. I wish DE could just get rid of them, but then issues arise...

Share our toys well it looks you misinterpreted I am addressing the point of the thread not sharing I am not arguing them to be brought back or kept away if it looks like that I wil apologies what I am arguing is that the op on 1st post said they should just be removed from everyone....see now I hope you understand what I mean if they come back I a cool with if they don't I am cool with it eaither way .

[Amazerath]

Actually according to EULA, DE has no legal bound preventing them from removing arcanes at their will

It's just matter of customer satisfaction

Afaik

 

I don't think it is that simple, even though I believe what you're saying. But either way, the fact is that removing something people bought without being able to compensate them is really not the best thing to do when you're dealing with a free-to-play game.

[Acidulant]

I don't think it is that simple, even though I believe what you're saying. But either way, the fact is that removing something people bought without being able to compensate them is really not the best thing to do when you're dealing with a free-to-play game.

True. Like I said, it's too late now to do anything fancy about those arcanes.

[Tyranness]

People can't get Frost Prime anymore so DE should remove all Frost Primes right? The exact moments new players can't get a thing or it's unobtainable it should be unusable until made available for free forever for no effort at all or cost right?

 

That's the extreme of what you're suggesting. And you're probably going "Yeah but I'm not suggesting the extreme!" No, you aren't. But you should put your edit on top so that's the first thing people read when they enter this topic.

Most (Most, don't you dare just state the name of one of the few good ones thinking you void the entire argument )of the enchants are rather useless in actuality with a few outliers. I personally dislike them and liked when helmets were made cosmetic only. Vanguard Rhino is dumb but made pointless with Bullet jumps.

 

Arcane helmets are remnants of the old system and there'll be far more as the game gets older and improves on things that you'll also eventually have and this subject will pop up for those.

 

Snipetron is a good example of this. "They have it we don't, give it to us" And when they have it they realize it's crap.

 

People bought the original helmets with money before they were discontinued, even if you didn't. And even now people have traded them with plat which equates to real money. You don't destroy all N64's cus you can't buy them straight up from a store anymore and other people still have them. Removing is radical and not a simple solution at all that merely makes problems.

 

Honestly integrating them into the current arcane system is probably the best and most reasonable idea so far. Would take away the double Arcane'd helmets problem. Though someone can correct me if Original Arcanes can't be double arcaned.

 

They should not be brought back, they should not be removed.

 

Arcanes are hardly the first thing any new player should give any damn about. (They aren't even told they exist.) DE has far more they should focus on in New Player Experience then ancient outdated cosmetics.

 

Yeah, sure you could get them for free. You got em, you earned the right to keep them when they were discontinued.

 

Problem of bringing them back, ever, in any way. defeats the point of taking them away in the first place. Which is that you are forced to use that ugly piece of garbage helm you don't actually like. While other frames have no specific bonus advantage and can use whatever helmet they want.

 

Make the Arcane Helmet work like current ones, but only usable with that helmet itself. So no double Arcane'd helmets so they have to choose between that precious 15% efficiency or that flat bonus crit chance. That's the only real problem with the old arcanes. Though putting them into the new system in such a manner replaces the downside they had negligible or not and making them proc chance lessens having gotten them in that way. I'm fine with sharing toys I got in a happy meal, but aren't there people who did infact purchase it with the straight up idea of they were for that one use and that's why they purchased them? Changing the thing that CAN be bought to something else completely different puts rocks in the cogs. It's why the Founders pack is such a difficult subject, it was money only and was stated to be limited and never coming back but enough of that I am aware that is not the subject and should be left to some other thread. (Also event weapons were ONLY obtainable via a free method that you earned, while arcanes were buyable. That does make a difference.)

 

It's not that simple. And the only simple solutions we have makes no one happy or defeats the purpose of discontinuing them in the first place.

[IANOBW]

Cmon, don't tell me you are one of those people who don't understand sarcasm...because you've been employing it at will throughout this thread (remember the multiple link thing you thought was so funny?)

And the reason the new player can't have the same thing as older players is because they weren't there when the arcane helmets were easier to get. They have to put more effort into getting them. No one feels bad for them...except you, apparently (not one person has agreed with you yet!).

 

Multiple link thing? I don't recall :S

(But seriously, I'm just pulling your leg :P)

 

Some people have agreed in this thread, and so do a few of my friends. There may even be more who are a little anxious to post, what with this appearing as (so far) quite a one-sided argument. Of course, I'm fine with this, I just want to discuss, is all.

 

I don't really remember having to put real effort into acquiring arcane helmets, so I don't see why new players should have to go to extreme lengths (by paying large amounts of plat) to acquire one.

 

 

 

We could integrate the stats into the new arcane system where applicable, and simply give the owners of Arcanes maxed versions of that arcane by default. Maybe slightly tone them down first, and remove the ones for efficiency, because it would quickly become the new meta.

 

Yeah, this is a possibility. Incorporating the arcanes into raids would also be a possibility.

 

 

 

Ok, then let's explain this a bit better since you are still talking about it:

 

"Excalibur Prime was not free". <- This is true.

 

"Arcane helmets were free". <- This is false.

 

But they were free. You could get them from alerts. and also:

 

Actually according to EULA, DE has no legal bound preventing them from removing arcanes at their will

 

So there you have it. They are not the same case. Stop comparing apples to oranges.

 

 

 

Share our toys well it looks you misinterpreted I am addressing the point of the thread not sharing I am not arguing them to be brought back or kept away if it looks like that I wil apologies what I am arguing is that the op on 1st post said they should just be removed from everyone....see now I hope you understand what I mean if they come back I a cool with if they don't I am cool with it eaither way .

 

You missed a few commas or periods there. Kinda hard to follow what you're saying.

 

No need to apologise, you are completely entitled to your opinion on the matter! I understand that my OP is a little outdated now that the discussion has moved on, so, i'll make sure to edit it a bit more now that the discussion has evolved.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

In snipertrons defense it was the best sniper before it was removed, and they basically nerfed it hardcore for us

[Tyranness]

It was nerfed with Damage 2.0 where it lost it's Armor Ignore. It's been bad for a long time but most people who wanted it ignored that.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

It was nerfed with Damage 2.0 where it lost it's Armor Ignore. It's been bad for a long time but most people who wanted it ignored that.

As far as I knew of it wasn't nerfed till before rerelease, but I was told by somone who couldn't use it on Xbox one

[IANOBW]

Just a heads up, the OP has been updated to explain more plausible, player friendly solutions that have been discussed so far. This was done by request, and will hopefully clear up the confusion caused. Ty.

[Amazerath]

But they were free. You could get them from alerts.

 

Sorry, but that's not enough to convince me. Good luck.

[IANOBW]

Sorry, but that's not enough to convince me. Good luck.

 

I really don't know what you can't understand about it, but OK.

[Tyranness]

@Amazerath By your statement Vauban should never ever be touched in anyway since he's only obtained from alerts and the market like the helmets use to be. I will say that being able to trade the arcanes (and allowing us to have multiple blueprints allowing people to hoarde and sell the good ones for high prices) are a problem with how Arcanes were handled.

 

However even if people buy them, people have also bought the new arcanes off people. So making something that was bought form trade chat into another thing of equal value that can be obtained from trade chat or obtained for free (If put into the normal pools or left out of them if they are too strong or were replaced by the new system themselves) would be more within reason yes?

[DarkLordX2]

OP, you fail to see of just don't want to see that some of us paid money or plat for these. New Players missed them, Old players kept them, some new players bought them.

So, why even bother complaining about releasing them if it will only cause a problem.

Unlike Event weapons, you can trade these, and here lies the problem, people PAID for them, while others got them in time.

[zerogear5]

if they weren't tradable then you would have an argument, since they are this topic is pointless

[IANOBW]

OP, you fail to see of just don't want to see that some of us paid money or plat for these. New Players missed them, Old players kept them, some new players bought them.

So, why even bother complaining about releasing them if it will only cause a problem.

Unlike Event weapons, you can trade these, and here lies the problem, people PAID for them, while others got them in time.

 

Yup, but that means that the argument for "People paid for these" isn't entirely valid either. It can go both ways, and no matter how it's approached, not everyone can be pleased.

 

Which is why we have this discussion.

 

In case you don't know, another possibility was mentioned where the arcane helmets could be treated as helmets with new rank 10 arcanes, and these could be obtained usually through future raids. This doesn't demote the value of the helmets, since you now have a rank 10 arcane.

 

Again, just a possiblity.

[----Legacy----]

First time on forums and got this crybaby thread.

 

Read all comments in thread and just could add:

 

Asking for alerts giving free arcane helms, using "they weren`t here and should have same options" is almost like asking for every new player having 3 months chance to buy his own founder pack due to "he wasn't here on time to get it, just give him a chance to become a founder too" simply ridiculous.

[nefrai]

No. If you don't have one of those helmets, that's sad, but do not take mine. The 'buff' those helmets give are negligible at best, but it is my helmet and it will stay how it is, thanks :) If you want to petition anything, it's to bring them back so you can get one. The *@##&#036;ing of the Warframe community can get insane.

[5H4DE]

Imo , cosmetics shouldve never been tied to stats , even the new arcanes are a stupid lock on your cosmetics , arcanes should be replaced entirely by that "so rumored" focus system that we never got .

[IANOBW]

First time on forums and got this crybaby thread.

 

Read all comments in thread and just could add:

 

Asking for alerts giving free arcane helms, using "they weren`t here and should have same options" is almost like asking for every new player having 3 months chance to buy his own founder pack due to "he wasn't here on time to get it, just give him a chance to become a founder too" simply ridiculous.

 

Lol, if had read all comments like you said you had (which I don't expect you to anyway), you'd know that Arcane helmets aren't equatable to Founders packs, since arcane helmets were obtainable without paying. Also, there is nothing saying DE wont release them again, whereas Founders pack wont come back, guaranteed.

 

Also

 

First time on forums and got this crybaby thread.

 

#Rood

Edited October 17, 2015 by IANOBW