~10 Firerate Autos Are Far Too Powerful In Every Situation And Are Completely Overtaking Every Game They Are Used In

[Phasedragon]

Right now autos with around 10 firerate (Braton, Karak, furis series) are the meta by a long shot. Specifically Karak because it has the highest DPS of this class, however all have the same issue. They are more effective at long ranges than sniper rifles, have no punishment for missing at close ranges, and shine even more in mid ranges.

 

With a Braton, I tested against an ash prime at 50 meters unmoving, which is about the farthest away you can engage in pvp. 10 shots out of 13 hit, killing in 1.1 seconds. Meanwhile a vectis would take at least 0.9 seconds after each shot to reload. This means that the Vectis would take a total of 2 seconds at the absolute minimum to get out 3 shots to kill the ash prime. Realistically, this would be at least 2.5. Even in this best case scenario for snipers, the Vectis is still be outpaced by a Braton. Of course the Vectis could go for a headshot if the enemy was unmoving, but this was just a control test for the DPS of these weapons. Especially at that range, headshots would be practically impossible.

 

Against shotguns at close ranges, they can be either sprayed or burst fired with impunity. They have short reloads and massive magazines, so their penalty for missing is very low. Meanwhile with shotguns, every shot counts. If you miss a couple too many shots, you have to submit to a reload. The boar is an exception to this, but even then it is still beaten in raw DPS.

 

At medium distances of 25 meters, there are a couple different options that come to mind. Semi-autos and burst rifles are meant to work best at this range. Unfortunately, this is harder to look at objectively because both require manual input. However, we could at least test this using macros. Even then, firing at exactly 4 rounds per second with macro-assisted accuracy, a Latron prime would only barely match a Karak's DPS at around 250-260. In the case of Burston prime, it might actually stand a chance. In fact, the Burston prime with macro assisted firing might be the only chance of dethroning these monsters, and I have had good success in pro matches against Karak players. However, it's very difficult to use. Using it macro-assisted to spray generally doesn't end up being effective due to it's abnormal firing pattern unless the enemy is being an easy target and you can land all of your bullets on them.

 

I suggest that autos that have around 10 firerate (Braton, Karak, furis series) get either less accuracy or more recoil, to the degree that they get pushed up like a grakata or worse. These weapons can be held on a target indefinitely with no recourse, and that just can't work for the highest DPS weapons in the game. High DPS should be reserved for the hard to use, and these weapons are anything but.

 

I would like to clarify, though. These weapons do NOT need DPS nerfs. They have a niche to fill, and that would be difficult to use autos. They should reward you for being able to control them. There are other forms of skill than just aiming and shooting.

Edited October 19, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

I liked the days when precision weapons ruled the conclave...

[Phasedragon]

I liked the days when precision weapons ruled the conclave...

 

That's the problem though. These are precision weapons somehow. They are far too accurate for what they are.

[Kolos1001]

That's the problem though. These are precision weapons somehow. They are far too accurate for what they are.

If they weren't accurate at range they'd be nigh unusable because people would just take a few hits and fly across the map into safety. You'd never be able to get a kill with them. Or you'd be spending the entire game chasing. Personally I'm not fond of tag disguised as a shooter. 

 

There should be more mods for snipers that increase damage at range.

[JonBenj]

I've had a few matches in which i've gone back to the Braton Series or Karak - Burston Prime is still my most used Primary, but i really have to work hard on repositioning to get a kill, rather than sustaining some damage and letting the weapon do it's thing. The autos out perform it, in their ease of use, and evidently DPS.

 

Macros on the Burston can exacerbate its spread. As the 3 round burst can changes its spread pattern every volley. But works well in smaller quarters.

 

Also noticed alot of pro players shifting to Autos.

 

What i'm trying to say is.. I'm getting wrecked out there by these weapons, also because of my dogmatic approach to my loadout.

Edited October 19, 2015 by JonBenj

[cary2010haha]

surely you don't play showdown modes alot, 1 shot heavy pistols are over run every auto.

[BoyTitan]

This is why the ttk of other weapons needs to go down and my decrease the ttk thread exists. We should all be hammering DE to buff other weapons instead of calling for nerfs.

 

Soon we will be running around with water guns.

[Nighttide77]

So, basically the suggestion is to make assault rifles more difficult to use at long range by increasing their recoil? I could support this.

The fact that an assault rifle is as accurate at long range as a sniper is a bit of a problem for PvP.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Nighttide77

[BoyTitan]

So, basically the suggestion is to make assault rifles more difficult to use at long range by increasing their recoil? I could support this.

The fact that an assault rifle is as accurate at long range as a sniper is a bit of a problem for PvP.

While that should be done. I don't think DE can make a weapon good at mid range and have its accuracy fall off at longer ranges. Just not confident in the coding staffs ability do stuff like that.

[Rubbertubtub01]

Daikyu buff, solution to everything. xD

 

If weapons like Karak are the "best" then other weapons should be brought up to it's standard instead of nerfing the Karak.

[Lordricker]

Was daikyu nerfed? or you just want buff cause autos op.

 

Last I checked daikyu was still in a pretty decent place (that was like a week ago though :/)

[Nazrethim]

Just make all autoweapons projective based instead of hitscan and "adjust" the damage of some weapons and call it a day. Or put variable accuracy, the more you fire the more you miss, so unloading your clip like there's no tomorrow won't land accurate hits.

[Nighttide77]

Was daikyu nerfed? or you just want buff cause autos op.

Last I checked daikyu was still in a pretty decent place (that was like a week ago though :/)

1 shot regular to low ehp frames, 2 shot on heavy, 1 shot everything beyond 20m. Don't think anything has changed.

[stoybot]

Karak is fine, I definitely did not just play 10 games in a row full of Karak players. On the other hand, Vectis was OP and everyone was using it, so the nerf was justified. Leave the autos alone; if anything, Daikyu and Opticor need a nerf. Also, it's good to know that standing in the line of fire of a Karak for about a second gets you killed - 2-shotting with Vectis was crazy powerful though. No, I'm definitely not salty because I tried out 10 different weapons as potential replacements for my Vectis and all of them were boring as all hell.

[Phasedragon]

Karak is fine, I definitely did not just play 10 games in a row full of Karak players. On the other hand, Vectis was OP and everyone was using it, so the nerf was justified. Leave the autos alone; if anything, Daikyu and Opticor need a nerf. Also, it's good to know that standing in the line of fire of a Karak for about a second gets you killed - 2-shotting with Vectis was crazy powerful though. No, I'm definitely not salty because I tried out 10 different weapons as potential replacements for my Vectis and all of them were boring as all hell.

Uuuhh what? Pretty much everyone is using karak, bratons, or mk1 furis right now. And before the vectis nerf, it was still very rarely used. The only reason that it was seen so often is because it usually dominated the scoreboard. This wasn't because of the vectis, though, it's because of the user, and you don't notice the 20 other people who are trying and failing miserably to use vectis. I've seen it, and basically any random guy that picked up a vectis had no idea what he was doing. On the other hand, autos are extremely forgiving, acurate, and easy to use. While it does take skill to dominate with karak, it doesn't take skill to at least do pretty good. The offset there is the key. It's the ultimate pick-up-and-play weapon.

[stoybot]

Uuuhh what? Pretty much everyone is using karak, bratons, or mk1 furis right now. And before the vectis nerf, it was still very rarely used. The only reason that it was seen so often is because it usually dominated the scoreboard. This wasn't because of the vectis, though, it's because of the user, and you don't notice the 20 other people who are trying and failing miserably to use vectis. I've seen it, and basically any random guy that picked up a vectis had no idea what he was doing. On the other hand, autos are extremely forgiving, acurate, and easy to use. While it does take skill to dominate with karak, it doesn't take skill to at least do pretty good. The offset there is the key. It's the ultimate pick-up-and-play weapon.

 

'Twas sarcasm, read the last sentence.

[Lordricker]

1 shot regular to low ehp frames, 2 shot on heavy, 1 shot everything beyond 20m. Don't think anything has changed.

 

same as it was before, only thing that survives 20m is overshields. hopefully they dont change it :( then i might actually have to try using autos -_-

[Aggh]

Uuuhh what? Pretty much everyone is using karak, bratons, or mk1 furis right now. And before the vectis nerf, it was still very rarely used. The only reason that it was seen so often is because it usually dominated the scoreboard. This wasn't because of the vectis, though, it's because of the user, and you don't notice the 20 other people who are trying and failing miserably to use vectis. I've seen it, and basically any random guy that picked up a vectis had no idea what he was doing. On the other hand, autos are extremely forgiving, acurate, and easy to use. While it does take skill to dominate with karak, it doesn't take skill to at least do pretty good. The offset there is the key. It's the ultimate pick-up-and-play weapon.

Braton was underused because braton prime was superior.  It suffered a lot more after the nerf to the braton series and thus the Braton has seen increased use.  Don't know why anyone is pretending that autos haven't seen wide spread use for ages.  Karak is seeing a similar increase in use to after the damage nerf to bratons.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Aggh

[Phasedragon]

Braton was underused because braton prime was superior. It suffered a lot more after the nerf to the braton series and thus the Braton has seen increased use. Don't know why anyone is pretending that autos haven't seen wide spread use for ages. Karak is seeing a similar increase in use to after the damage nerf to bratons.

Autos have been a staple that filled in the cracks between the players who used snipers and burst fires. However even prenerf burston p was rivaled to a degree by autos. Now that those have been nerfed, it seems that autos got left behind in the prenerf damage tier. Now everyone who used to use bursts or snipers is looking for alternatives and autos are the only real option.

Edited October 19, 2015 by PhaseShifted

[Thalahssalyst]

So, the target now are Autos?

[Aggh]

So, the target now are Autos?

They've only ever really need a mag capacity nerf but now people are going to push for a damage nerf that will make the ttk in this game sky rocket.

[Phasedragon]

surely you don't play showdown modes alot, 1 shot heavy pistols are over run every auto.

That's completely irrelevant, because modifier modes are a different type of balance. Even then, I would have to disagree. Mk1 furis still beats the pants off every other secondary.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

They've only ever really need a mag capacity nerf but now people are going to push for a damage nerf that will make the ttk in this game sky rocket.

Personally I'd perfed the rest of the weapons to reach the autos current level

[Shin]

same as it was before, only thing that survives 20m is overshields. hopefully they dont change it :( then i might actually have to try using autos -_-

Yeah. Daikyuu is the last weapon that im having fun with. Even if i lose horribly, i have fun with Daikyuu. If they nerf it too i dont think i'll come back to Conclaves afterwards. That weapon is the only weapon that rewards situational awareness and aim of the user. I cant have fun with autos etc.

 

 

Now everyone who used to use bursts or snipers is looking for alternatives and autos are the only real option.

Daikyuu is the last hope at the moment. If that gets nerfed aswell i can start saying PvP team is just listening to buttmad scrubs who died to snipers a couple of times. Im waiting for that day which i hope never comes.

[Gahrzerkire]

We simply need conical accuracy to take more of a part in this game. Recoil is fine as it is, but connical accuracy is ridiculous. The braton primes conical accuracy is nigh perfect when it has a short &#! barrel, meanwhile the gorgons conical accuracy sucks balls, even.. though.. it.. has.. a long barrel. If they applied conical accuracy to all weapons they would be range balanced and therefore a sniper at range would have an advantage due to its night perfect accuracy, and a braton would suck cuase it would be extremely innaccurate. Recoil is not the issue. Its the cone of fire.