Can We Remove Nullifiers...(Balance + Event Suggestion)

[LazerusKI]

...and replace them with Scrambus and Comba?

 

Honestly, Nullifiers are unfair as enemies (remember the shocking balls of death from the seekers?), they are not fun to play against.

Stacking several bubbles on top of enemies that can oneshot you...even less fun.

Blocking certain slow shooting low clip weapons from killing them...thats just broken if you have to bring rapdidfire highlip stuff just to deal with those shields.

 

Now look at Scrambus and Comba.

They have a Nullification field that is similar to Nullifiers

they both have 4 types of auras,

- Fog to scramble Perception Powers

- Nul to disrupt Buffs and Debuffs

- Sap to disable Damage Abilities

- Slo to block Mobility

 

we can still shoot them without the unfair advantage of having that huge shield-bubble.

they have several differen loadouts, Homing Detron, Angstrum, Whips or a frontal Shield

so they have 16 different combinations each, that leads to a much more fun gameplay than damageblocking nullifier lanka snipers.

 

So what about an event?

Let us destroy the factories for the Nullifier Bubble Generators, let us develope something against them, something that results in the death of the Nullifier Crewman and results in the rise of the Comba and Scrambus

 

EDIT: A few quotes from the other pages

 

ok then, lets just use that as an example then.

My rapidfire unranked, unmodded S.Gammacor deals <100 damage per round, so it counts as 100, right? since my unranked, unmodded S.Gammacor has 15rps, that means i can reduce the shield by 90% in just one second. So i can shred it in 1.1s

in reality, the shrinking cant even handle that RoF. you shoot at it for 1s and it shrinks for several more seconds, even if you have allready stopped, you have to wait for it to drop.

 

Now lets use my Modded 5x Formad 35k per hit Opticor, its clearly above 400 right? Too bad that its RoF is less than 1rps.

But its damage is then set down to 400, so i can only reduce its shield by 24% per shot. so i need 5 shots (4.1 to be precise) to take it down.

So a full magazine, 1s per shot with 2s reload time to take out ONE bubble.

 

somehow this doesnt sound balanced...

seriously, s.gammacor is strong, but there are weapons with even higher RoF, Twin Vipers with 25 or Prisma Grakata with 21 for example. and damage doesnt matter, since it gets increased to the basic 100 anyway, while everything above 400 gets reduced

 

Now the AoE thing. wasnt it considered a bug once? Atleast i remember that from back then when they released frost. its simply the way explosions are handled, basically killing them with AoE is an exploit that was never fixed.

 

Ok.

Even if the new enemies DO fill a roll that nullifiers could if they were "better designed"- they are VERY RARE spawns. Nullifiers are a normal enemy. If you remove nullifiers and leave it to the new enemies, game goes back to being easy mode 90% of the time. It is not a good suggestion to remove them. Instead- you should suggest to IMPROVE them.

well...increase the spawnrate and replace the frontal shield with a regular bubble that doesnt has this stupid shrinking mechanic? huh that was easier than i thought, suddenly i have a nullifier that can either attack or defend, a nullifier where a magnetic weapon might be usefull, a nullifier where every aspect of my weapon actually matters and not just its RoF...

 

 

 

 

While we're at it, can we take out Napalms too? They are super tanky and deal too much damage. Having difficult enemies is no fun.

 

Well, nullifiers is only easy to be defeated by automatic rifles, a bit hard for shotguns(but they can get into the bubble as they supposed to get close)and fxxking hard for snipers, launchers and bows

however naplams are equally difficult(or easy) for all weapons to take it down

nullifiers is suppressing weapon diversity, badly, for obvious reason

and DE wants diversity, removing nullifiers is a reasonable request

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Arkhenbarn]

I love the idea. But the core problem is the fact that their bubble has a damage cap, prohibiting the use of weapons like the snipers and bows which have a slow fire rate. If it could be changed, it would solve partially the problem.

[(PSN)Karkinnos]

Are... are people still having trouble with nullifiers? How? Just shoot the damn bubble; it shrinks down, then shoot the enemies inside of it. This ain't rocket surgery!

 

I didn't think they had a damage cap; Still nullifiers are integral to the current game difficulty; without them it's just easy mode. Atleast these change up the game from normal run and shoot or spam power to win to thinking of a more tactical approach. And if your killed because a horde of gunners hiding under a bubble corners you in the dead end hallway you where camping in a 40+ t4s; well... you have nobody but yourself to blame for getting caught.

Edited October 27, 2015 by (PS4)Karkinnos

[Solstrome]

Nullifiers can't hit the broad side of a barn though, unless ofcourse you're holding still for some crazy reason.

They die if you so much as breath on them too. Personally I like nullifiers as they take more skill to kill instead of bigger numbers.

Just hop inside the bubble, oneshot them, and hop away. It's not even particularly risky.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Solstrome

[Koler.]

I love the idea. But the core problem is the fact that their bubble has a damage cap, prohibiting the use of weapons like the snipers and bows which have a slow fire rate. If it could be changed, it would solve partially the problem.

Agreed. Taking bows, sniper rifles or shotgun to void is a suicide against Nullifiers. The problem is that the bubble does not even scale with damage but with the amount of shots you do. So if you do 8 shots from rifle to destroy bubble - you must do 8 shots from sniper rifle or bow as well on most situations. Instead of that DE's could just add penetration ability for those situations. Like sniper rifle or bow does not destroy bubble but goes right through it. It would make snipers and bows very useful in void

Edited October 27, 2015 by Koler.

[LazerusKI]

Are... are people still having trouble with nullifiers? How? Just shoot the damn bubble; it shrinks down, then shoot the enemies inside of it. This ain't rocket surgery!

 

Nullifiers can't hit the broad side of a barn though, unless ofcourse you're holding still for some crazy reason.

They die if you so much as breath on them too. Personally I like nullifiers as they take more skill to kill instead of bigger numbers.

Just hop inside the bubble, oneshot them, and hop away. It's not even particularly risky.

 

oh well, lets take 5 Nullifiers close to eachother. So you cant take out the shields without another one regenerating.

Now let them be at a level where they can onehit Tanks, and since you cant take them out from the distance, you need to get into that bubble...and there they hit.

Now put some Heavies and Bombards under those globes too, let them stunlock you with stomps and missiles.

And lets not forget to add some ancients so that you cant even kill the crewman

and hey, just for fun lets add some eximus units with the heatwave, toxic aura and snowglobe

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Solstrome]

oh well, lets take 5 Nullifiers close to eachother at a level where they can onehit Tanks.

Now put some Heavies and Bombards under those globes too

And lets not forget to add some ancients so that you cant even kill the crewman

and hey, just for fun lets add some eximus units with the heatwave, toxic aura and snowglobe

That stuff only happens at stupidly high levels in some of the unending void missions. There's no real point in doing that except as a personal challenge. Why would you want them to make that easier?

[LazerusKI]

That stuff only happens at stupidly high levels in some of the unending void missions. There's no real point in doing that except as a personal challenge. Why would you want them to make that easier?

it happens enough at even wave 20 in T3D, and dont forget that most rewards are in those endless missions.

its not uncommon to have 3-4 Nullifiers with a few Bombards, Heavy Gunners and Ancients all at the same time.

Dont know if the spawn change was implemented, where the big guys spawn at the end of a wave...but it certainly feels like it

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Stratego89]

Agreed. Taking bows, sniper rifles or shotgun to void is a suicide against Nullifiers. The problem is that the bubble does not even scale with damage but with the amount of shots you do. So if you do 8 shots from rifle to destroy bubble - you must do 8 shots from sniper rifle or bow as well on most situations. Instead of that DE's could just add penetration ability for those situations. Like sniper rifle or bow does not destroy bubble but goes right through it. It would make make snipers and bows very useful in void

This is not true. At all. It USED to be based on # of projectiles that hits it. They realized this was clearly an issue for Low ROF weapons like bows. They changed it. It now decreases based on the amount of damage you deal to it up to a cap. High rate of fire weapons most of the time do not reach this cap. Bows do. It takes more shots from a weak, high rof weapon to kill them than for a strong low rof weapon to kill them. The bubbles DO still hurt on REALLY low RoF weapons like the daikyu or opticor- but it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

Seriously guys, we have a SECONDARY slot. It's there for a reason- use it. You can carry any explosive secondary and kill a nullifier from outside their bubble. You can carry a high RoF secondary to shred them and swap back to primary to deal with everything else. THINK about your loadouts and nullifiers aren't an issue. That's why they exist- to make you think, to make you actually need to do something other than "shoot everything dead with one OP gun". They achieve that. The people that complain about them don't and won't take the time or effort to just consider their loadout for 2 minutes or are too lazy and refuse to swap to a secondary to deal with a priority target meant to cause issues on the battlefield.

[Koler.]

This is not true. At all. It USED to be based on # of projectiles that hits it. They realized this was clearly an issue for Low ROF weapons like bows. They changed it. It now decreases based on the amount of damage you deal to it up to a cap. High rate of fire weapons most of the time do not reach this cap. Bows do. It takes more shots from a weak, high rof weapon to kill them than for a strong low rof weapon to kill them. The bubbles DO still hurt on REALLY low RoF weapons like the daikyu or opticor- but it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

Seriously guys, we have a SECONDARY slot. It's there for a reason- use it. You can carry any explosive secondary and kill a nullifier from outside their bubble. You can carry a high RoF secondary to shred them and swap back to primary to deal with everything else. THINK about your loadouts and nullifiers aren't an issue. That's why they exist- to make you think, to make you actually need to do something other than "shoot everything dead with one OP gun". They achieve that. The people that complain about them don't and won't take the time or effort to just consider their loadout for 2 minutes or are too lazy and refuse to swap to a secondary to deal with a priority target meant to cause issues on the battlefield.

An average toxic poster on forums. Maximum critique and zero evidence. Calls people lazy and being elitist. Make a gif where you 1 shot bubble on nullifier on Wave 40 with bow or sniper rifle and I will apologize.

Edited October 27, 2015 by Koler.

[(PSN)Karkinnos]

That stuff only happens at stupidly high levels in some of the unending void missions. There's no real point in doing that except as a personal challenge. Why would you want them to make that easier?

^

 

Rember DE refuses to ballance the game solo around the void alone. The void is supposed to be optional part of the game, it is not storymode, or the planetary map. It's a side zone to play in when you get what used to be rare drop keys. To look at the true balance of the Nulls you have to look at how they function in high level corpus, which caps out about level 40-50 normally and their bubbles are a nuisance more than a death sentence.

 

Which even then remember things are gonna change when we get void 2.0 along with starmap 2.0 Enemy spawns may be completely different in the void as opposed to the blandness they are now of the same 5 enemies over and over again.

 

Also some advice, the buffed ignis can nearly 1hko level 100 nulls inside of their bubble if you aim off to the right side of the bubble fro ma distance, as it has 100% punch through.

[Stratego89]

oh well, lets take 5 Nullifiers close to eachother. So you cant take out the shields without another one regenerating.

Now let them be at a level where they can onehit Tanks, and since you cant take them out from the distance, you need to get into that bubble...and there they hit.

Now put some Heavies and Bombards under those globes too, let them stunlock you with stomps and missiles.

And lets not forget to add some ancients so that you cant even kill the crewman

and hey, just for fun lets add some eximus units with the heatwave, toxic aura and snowglobe

5 Nullifiers next to each other? Firstly- I've never seen that happen. I've seen ONE TIME 3 of them get together, their ai tends to force them to cover separate areas rather than clump up. On a few occasions I've seen 2 of them get together, but again it's not a common thing. Secondly- If they're really all that close, and you KNOW you can't shoot their bubbles down, you have options. Option 1: fall back and wait for them to not stand next to each other and handle them (obviously not viable on defense). Option 2: Run in like leeroy jenkins and wreck them. They are VERY weak. One hit from most melee will completely murder them and drop their bubble. This is only an issue if an ancient in void is buffing them- which again doesn't happen often. That is the ONE issue I have with nullifiers. If they nullify our powers and auras, they should also nullify team auras. Anyone in their bubble should not be able to be protected by an ancient nor receive eximus buffs from their allies. Other than that nullifiers are fine.

[LazerusKI]

This is not true. At all. It USED to be based on # of projectiles that hits it. They realized this was clearly an issue for Low ROF weapons like bows. They changed it. It now decreases based on the amount of damage you deal to it up to a cap. High rate of fire weapons most of the time do not reach this cap. Bows do. It takes more shots from a weak, high rof weapon to kill them than for a strong low rof weapon to kill them. The bubbles DO still hurt on REALLY low RoF weapons like the daikyu or opticor- but it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

 

Seriously guys, we have a SECONDARY slot. It's there for a reason- use it. You can carry any explosive secondary and kill a nullifier from outside their bubble. You can carry a high RoF secondary to shred them and swap back to primary to deal with everything else. THINK about your loadouts and nullifiers aren't an issue. That's why they exist- to make you think, to make you actually need to do something other than "shoot everything dead with one OP gun". They achieve that. The people that complain about them don't and won't take the time or effort to just consider their loadout for 2 minutes or are too lazy and refuse to swap to a secondary to deal with a priority target meant to cause issues on the battlefield.

well...even my unranked spectra can take out a shield faster than my opticor.

 

 

They are VERY weak. One hit from most melee will completely murder them and drop their bubble. This is only an issue if an ancient in void is buffing them- which again doesn't happen often. That is the ONE issue I have with nullifiers. If they nullify our powers and auras, they should also nullify team auras. Anyone in their bubble should not be able to be protected by an ancient nor receive eximus buffs from their allies. Other than that nullifiers are fine.

Well, i guess you have never seen overlapping bubbles then. I had it many many times now in void and in corpus missions where the bubbles overlapped so perfectly, that i could not shoot them from the inside without hitting another bubble.

New Scrambus and Comba? Yes they killed me a few times, but they used fair methods.

i agree with the nullifiers, but even shielddrones can be a pretty tough hurdle at certain levels.

 

honestly, "swap to your sidearm" - and what if i dont want to play with high RoF weapons just to deal with that one single enemy? you can kill everything with whatever weapon you want, but you have a hard time when you bring a Lanka or Opticor to the battle against them, without have a rapidfire sidearm.

Edited October 27, 2015 by LazerusKI

[Stratego89]

An average toxic poster on forums. Maximum critique and zero evidence. Calls people lazy and being elitist. Make a gif where you 1 shot bubble on nullifier on Wave 40 with bow or sniper rifle and I will apologize.

Uhm. Only you CAN'T one shot a nullifier bubble at ANY point (even level 1) with a bow or sniper rifle- no matter how powerful it is. You call me toxic, say I'm critiquing, and have zero evidence. When in reality YOU are the toxic poster. I didn't critique, I posted evidence. I explained in my post that there is a damage cap on their bubble- after your damage is higher than that cap it no longer matters how much damage you can actually do, it won't hurt the bubble more than that- but it is a high cap that a lot of high RoF weapons cannot reach. They can put more damage into the bubble per second since they use multiple shots rather than one. I didn't claim a bow can 1shot the bubble. I didn't say that High RoF weapons aren't more effective against it (in fact I specifically stated that they ARE). Just because high RoF weapons are BETTER than low RoF weapons on nullifier bubbles- doesn't mean it makes low RoF obsolete. It is not THAT big of a disparity. Especially once you get to higher level where the shields have a lot of health anyways. I don't need your apology- because you wouldn't mean it anyways. You just accused me of things I didn't say or do. You called me names when I've done nothing wrong. What I NEED is for you to read my post next instead of making yourself look like a fool.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Rebecca has already explained how Nullifier bubbles work.

 

 

Still, they are cancer and could be improved in many ways.

 

Being selective in what they nullify like Comba and Scrambus, being purely supportive with no damage ability, making certain enemies penetrate their shields, making the shields be only a partial cover.

 

On top of not making the bubble penetrate environment obviously.

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by Mofixil

[Stratego89]

well...even my unranked spectra can take out a shield faster than my opticor.

That's because spectra is a continuous fire weapon. They damage the globe for EVERY TICK that it is on it- as opposed to any weapon (high or low RoF) which damages it per shot. There are like... what 20+ ticks per second in games (I can't recall the exact number offhand). I never claimed that low RoF weapons weren't less effective- I simply said that it is not THAT bad, and encourages you to use your secondary weapon effectively rather than never pulling it out for any reason. FYI: AoE also wrecks nullifiers as instead of hitting their bubble the damage transfers directly to the nullifier themself. Everyone seems to be completely missing my point.

[Koler.]

Uhm. Only you CAN'T one shot a nullifier bubble at ANY point (even level 1) with a bow or sniper rifle- no matter how powerful it is. You call me toxic, say I'm critiquing, and have zero evidence. When in reality YOU are the toxic poster. I didn't critique, I posted evidence. I explained in my post that there is a damage cap on their bubble- after your damage is higher than that cap it no longer matters how much damage you can actually do, it won't hurt the bubble more than that- but it is a high cap that a lot of high RoF weapons cannot reach. They can put more damage into the bubble per second since they use multiple shots rather than one. I didn't claim a bow can 1shot the bubble. I didn't say that High RoF weapons aren't more effective against it (in fact I specifically stated that they ARE). Just because high RoF weapons are BETTER than low RoF weapons on nullifier bubbles- doesn't mean it makes low RoF obsolete. It is not THAT big of a disparity. Especially once you get to higher level where the shields have a lot of health anyways. I don't need your apology- because you wouldn't mean it anyways. You just accused me of things I didn't say or do. You called me names when I've done nothing wrong. What I NEED is for you to read my post next instead of making yourself look like a fool.

I haven't called you any name and yet you call me a fool? Don't cry when you get a ban. Good day to you, sir. Continue being toxic and enjoy your ban

[Stratego89]

Rebecca has already explained how Nullifier bubbles work.

It's something around 100-400dmg cap (min-max), multiplied by 6%, that's relative shrink rate to current bubble size (starting at 150% for whatever reason IIRC).

 

This means that low damage bullethoses (<100dmg per shot) will remove 6% of their shields, while high damage weapons will shrink bubbles by 24% at most.

Finally someone else who knows what they're talking about. Noone seems to be listening to me when I say this...

[Stratego89]

I haven't called you any name and yet you call me a fool? Don't cry when you get a ban. Good day to you, sir. Continue being toxic and enjoy your ban

Yes. Because calling me a "toxic poster" and "being an elitist" is not calling me any name. Yes. Because calling someone a fool is worthy of an instant ban. Yes. Because you have the instant power to decide that I should be banned and I will be because you decide that I should be. I am not being toxic- I will not be receiving a ban. You have completely derailed from the topic and resorted to what I could honestly take as a threat to me because you have no logic or argument against what I have said. If anyone were to get a ban (not really because there's this thing called a warning point system that I guess you have no clue about)- it would be you. Good day to YOU sir. Next time, try to stay on topic.

[Koler.]

Yes. Because calling me a "toxic poster" and "being an elitist" is not calling me any name. Yes. Because calling someone a fool is worthy of an instant ban. Yes. Because you have the instant power to decide that I should be banned and I will be because you decide that I should be. I am not being toxic- I will not be receiving a ban. You have completely derailed from the topic and resorted to what I could honestly take as a threat to me because you have no logic or argument against what I have said. If anyone were to get a ban (not really because there's this thing called a warning point system that I guess you have no clue about)- it would be you. Good day to YOU sir. Next time, try to stay on topic.

Nice try provoking me. Good luck trolling next time. 

[Stratego89]

honestly, "swap to your sidearm" - and what if i dont want to play with high RoF weapons just to deal with that one single enemy? you can kill everything with whatever weapon you want, but you have a hard time when you bring a Lanka or Opticor to the battle against them, without have a rapidfire sidearm.

If you don't want to adapt to enemies that are MADE to make you adapt- that is YOUR problem. That is LITERALLY the point of the nullifiers. To make you adapt and not keep the same old "shoot things and spam 4" mindset in missions. DE has said this. Suggesting they take them out because you personally do not feel like using a certain weapon (there are PLENTY of weapons that can deal with them, not just High RoF. AoE and continuous weapons also brutally destroy them) to adapt to what they have put in to MAKE you adapt is asinine. "You can kill everything with whatever weapon you want, but have a hard time when you bring [every low rof high damage weapon here] to the battle against them, without having a [every AoE, continuous, or high rof secondary here] sidearm." As I have been saying... over... and over........ That is the point. You are asking them to remove nullifiers so you can go back to the playstyle that DE put them in game to ELIMINATE. That makes NO SENSE.

[(PSN)shmittem]

lol you cant just remove something because its to hard, its annoying but jesus JUST CALM DOWN.

 

without a challenge its too boring (imo).

 

you dont want a game where you move 1 box from one side of the room to another.

[Stratego89]

Nice try provoking me. Good luck trolling next time. 

Only... I wasn't trying to provoke you. I was trying to make you see the error of your ways and maybe calm down and think about things before acting like you actually have power and influence suggesting you can get someone banned- which fyi typically turns around on a person once staff sees. But apparently you are too upset right now to be able to see this.

[LazerusKI]

lol you cant just remove something because its to hard, its annoying but jesus JUST CALM DOWN.

 

without a challenge its too boring (imo).

 

you dont want a game where you move 1 box from one side of the room to another.

i dont want to remove them because they are "hard", i want to remove them because their design is bad.

We got new improved nullifiers now that use a much fairer, better scaling system.

[Koler.]

 But apparently you are too upset right now to be able to see this.

Literally "you mad" said with another words. Reported