So. Pve Stuff Available Only Through Pvp?

[Stormdragon]

Like I said in my previous reply, this is a terrible counterargument, and can be used both ways. No-one is 'forcing' anyone to play Warframe, but you seem to think that these feedback forums are pointless if you're willing extend that logic. You've missed the point entirely.

Let's take a small part of an argument and answer it while forgetting about the main idea.

As you said, this is feedback in a public forum, and thus we can all post our point of view to any change in game. If you can't stand or don't want to read people supporting an idea you don't like, that's not my problem.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

quote name="Onisa" post="6227335" timestamp="1446132995"]Out of all your examples, only the J-3 Golem fight is even remotely similar. Do you know why?

Save the semantic bull they all have things locked behind them that people want or can be purchased if the person doesn't want to do them. That's pretty much how the entire game works.

 

 

Again, the issue is that PvE content is gated behind PvP. Try to address the issue before insulting those who have.

I addressed the issue fully and as you have been told several times by several people it IS NOT pve content locked behind PvP. It's PvP content that can be used in pve (by people who apparently know nothing about moding if they're crying about wanting to use that crap). Those mods are terrible for pve, literally worse than any other option available. You can keep repeating he same belligerent, incorrect sentence all you want, but th fact remains you're wrong.

Edited October 30, 2015 by [DE]Danielle
Fixed quote

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

-snip-

 

If it can be used in PvE then it is PvE gear.  It doesn't matter if it is PvP gear too or not.

Edited October 30, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

If it can be used in PvE then it is PvE gear.  It doesn't matter if it is PvP gear too or not.

How exactly does that prove anything? By that logic anything that can be used in PvP is PvP gear and if that's the case they've been sharing a whole lot more than those unwanted mods for a long time. That seems like a really ignorant statement. Warframes and weapons aren't "PvP gear" just bc they can be used in PvP. Just like being usable in pve doesn't make those mods pve mods. The fact that they are the worst possible choice for a mod slot in pve should have given you a hint.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

By that logic anything that can be used in PvP is PvP gear

Exactly.

[Onisa]

quote name="Onisa" post="6227335" timestamp="1446132995"]Out of all your examples, only the J-3 Golem fight is even remotely similar. Do you know why?

Save the semantic bull they all have things locked behind them that people want or can be purchased if the person doesn't want to do them. That's pretty much how the entire game works.

I'll take that as a 'no', then.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

I'll take that as a 'no', then.

Take it however you want. Whatever you're alluding to doesn't matter. They are all similar in the aspect I gave examples for. Any other differences are irrelevant

[ograzzt]

Actually mods for reducing FOV were available in pve even before this update. Shocking, right? You guys just didn't knew that and lived happily without any problems.

[Onisa]

Take it however you want. Whatever you're alluding to doesn't matter. They are all similar in the aspect I gave examples for. Any other differences are irrelevant

So the difference between playing the main game and playing mini games requiring mostly unique gear is irrelevant. Perhaps the Dev's should lock content behind Flappy Zepher or Wyrmius next.

[Thaumatos]

All I can say is, have fun...and you can quote me on this...have fun farming the good mods that will eventually come from PvP.

 

If they don't change this now, that's where we're headed.

 

Some of us see it, some of us don't understand, and still some of us don't care...but it will get there if DE doesn't quit it now.

 

Edit:

 

I said the exact same thing about full-on PvP's existence in Warframe...and people scoffed.  Well I'm saying it again.  Time to stop scoffing.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Thaumatos

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

So the difference between playing the main game and playing mini games requiring mostly unique gear is irrelevant. Perhaps the Dev's should lock content behind Flappy Zepher or Wyrmius next.

 

There are no PvP only warframes or weapons. You're " mostly unique gear" crap is a flat out lie. You aren't forced to level up new gear. If you're talking about the handful of PvP mods that are terrible and have barely any effect on gameplay then no you're not forced to get and level something that doesn't even really help. Stop spreading incorrect information and acting like its the end of times. Not to mention you get rep win or loose so you literally don't need anything specific at all to get PvP rep.

 

All I can say is, have fun...and you can quote me on this...have fun farming the good mods that will eventually come from PvP.

 

If they don't change this now, that's where we're headed.

 

Some of us see it, some of us don't understand, and still some of us don't care...but it will get there if DE doesn't quit it now.

 

Edit:

 

I said the exact same thing about full-on PvP's existence in Warframe...and people scoffed.  Well I'm saying it again.  Time to stop scoffing.

WHO CARES!? Almost every part of this game has something locked behind it to provide incentive to do it. Why should PvP be any different? They have been working very hard to improve it so, yeah, I'm sure they want people to play it. As I've said before I've never pvped in this game bc I don't really like PvP but if there were mods I wanted from PvP I'd suck it up and run a few to get them. I didn't like vey hek but I still farmed hydroid. I don't like spy missions but I farmed all the fire and ice duel stat mods. Sometimes you have to do things you don't enjoy to get gear you want. Welcome to the gaming. Except DE is better than most in that you can still buy/trade to get that same gear so you're not even forced to do anything.

The way I look at it, and this isn't directed at any specific person, if you're not willing to work for the gear you want then you don't deserve to have it. And yes, sometimes that means doing something you don't particularly enjoy.

[DoomFruit]

WHO CARES!? Almost every part of this game has something locked behind it to provide incentive to do it. Why should PvP be any different? They have been working very hard to improve it so, yeah, I'm sure they want people to play it. As I've said before I've never pvped in this game bc I don't really like PvP but if there were mods I wanted from PvP I'd suck it up and run a few to get them. I didn't like vey hek but I still farmed hydroid. I don't like spy missions but I farmed all the fire and ice duel stat mods. Sometimes you have to do things you don't enjoy to get gear you want. Welcome to the gaming. Except DE is better than most in that you can still buy/trade to get that same gear so you're not even forced to do anything.

I care.

Warframe started as a PvE game. It existed for most of its life as a PvE game. Every major addition was to the PvE component - survival, interception, excavation, archwing, raids. Dojo duelling arenas were interesting, but nothing more than a side note, a little addition to satisfy curiosity. Likewise for the old conclave nodes on the starmap - interesting to try, but without any fundamental impact on gameplay. That was fine. Solar rail conflicts were implemented, switched to PvP and then promptly disabled and all taxes set to zero after the devs realised what a stupid idea that was.

We were explicitly told that PvP would not affect PvE in any material way. Up until now, this has been the case. Warframe is a PvE game. Sure, stick on an additional PvP component, but do *not* force players into it to obtain components for the main game. And don't trot out the same bullS#&$ everyone keeps spouting about the trading channel. It's a price-gouging craphole which is a very unpleasant place to be unless you enjoy ripping people off or being ripped off yourself.

This is just the thin end of the wedge. It's someone sticking a foot in the door and it needs to be stamped on before things get any worse.

The solution is simple - if it's usable in PvE, make it directly available through PvE gameplay. Directly. No transmutation. No third world fruit market-type price haggling and gouging. Have it drop from enemies. Put it in the mission rewards for under-loved types (deception, capture). Have them be granted for completing mission challenges (eg. 10 headshot kills). All those are viable options.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

I care.

Warframe started as a PvE game. It existed for most of its life as a PvE game. Every major addition was to the PvE component - survival, interception, excavation, archwing, raids. Dojo duelling arenas were interesting, but nothing more than a side note, a little addition to satisfy curiosity. Likewise for the old conclave nodes on the starmap - interesting to try, but without any fundamental impact on gameplay. That was fine. Solar rail conflicts were implemented, switched to PvP and then promptly disabled and all taxes set to zero after the devs realised what a stupid idea that was.

We were explicitly told that PvP would not affect PvE in any material way. Up until now, this has been the case. Warframe is a PvE game. Sure, stick on an additional PvP component, but do *not* force players into it to obtain components for the main game. And don't trot out the same bullS#&$ everyone keeps spouting about the trading channel. It's a price-gouging craphole which is a very unpleasant place to be unless you enjoy ripping people off or being ripped off yourself.

This is just the thin end of the wedge. It's someone sticking a foot in the door and it needs to be stamped on before things get any worse.

The solution is simple - if it's usable in PvE, make it directly available through PvE gameplay. Directly. No transmutation. No third world fruit market-type price haggling and gouging. Have it drop from enemies. Put it in the mission rewards for under-loved types (deception, capture). Have them be granted for completing mission challenges (eg. 10 headshot kills). All those are viable options.

I understand what you're saying but think of PvP as new content like raids, bosses, ect. All have desirable gear locked behind them. The problem seems to be you feeling "forced" to do PvP. How exactly are you forced? As a pve player, how do you have even the slightest motivation to obtain these mods? They are worse than any other option we have available. They will have absolutely no effect on pve bc no one with any degree of intelligence will use them in pve. This disparity of "forced" and "need" are totally in your head bc the reality is you are not forced to do it and you don't need those mods. Honestly you shouldn't even want them.

[atom]

I understand what you're saying but think of PvP as new content like raids, bosses, ect. All have desirable gear locked behind them. The problem seems to be you feeling "forced" to do PvP. How exactly are you forced? As a pve player, how do you have even the slightest motivation to obtain these mods? They are worse than any other option we have available. They will have absolutely no effect on pve bc no one with any degree of intelligence will use them in pve. This disparity of "forced" and "need" are totally in your head bc the reality is you are not forced to do it and you don't need those mods. Honestly you shouldn't even want them.

you are not seeing the big picture and the precedent this creates. the mods are not mandatory now but it creates the possibility of them releasing ones that are in this manner. PvP and PvE are very different game modes usually catering to a very different type of player. most of us came this game for the PvE aspect and want nothing to do with PvP. they should keep things fair and not break their promise of keeping the modes separate by having the mods also obtainable in PvE. end of story

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

you are not seeing the big picture and the precedent this creates. the mods are not mandatory now but it creates the possibility of them releasing ones that are in this manner. PvP and PvE are very different game modes usually catering to a very different type of player. most of us came this game for the PvE aspect and want nothing to do with PvP. they should keep things fair and not break their promise of keeping the modes separate by having the mods also obtainable in PvE. end of story

I do understand the implications. And as I've said multiple times even though I'm not a pvper and don't care for the game mode, I have no problems with this at all. If there were PvP mods I wanted I happily jump in and grind it out. Is it gonna kill you to PvP a few times? No! It is not a big deal. If you're not willing to do 100% of the games content you don't deserve 100% of the gear. Hell, if they made that nyx adsorb augment usable in pve I would jump in without hesitation and a smile on my face, and again that's coming from someone who doesn't like PvPing in any game at all. "Fair" this has nothing to do with fairness lol that's absurd. I hate that word "fair", life's not fair and no one told you it would be. Fair is a made up, childish notion. As many, many people have said repeatedly, major changes are coming to both mods and the star chart so there is a very real possibility all those mods will be available by other means. Maybe try a little patience instead of screaming the sky's falling.

[atom]

I do understand the implications. And as I've said multiple times even though I'm not a pvper and don't care for the game mode, I have no problems with this at all. If there were PvP mods I wanted I happily jump in and grind it out. Is it gonna kill you to PvP a few times? No! It is not a big deal. If you're not willing to do 100% of the games content you don't deserve 100% of the gear. Hell, if they made that nyx adsorb augment usable in pve I would jump in without hesitation and a smile on my face, and again that's coming from someone who doesn't like PvPing in any game at all. "Fair" this has nothing to do with fairness lol that's absurd. I hate that word "fair", life's not fair and no one told you it would be. Fair is a made up, childish notion. As many, many people have said repeatedly, major changes are coming to both mods and the star chart so there is a very real possibility all those mods will be available by other means. Maybe try a little patience instead of screaming the sky's falling.

i don't want 100% of the gear. just the part that's usable in PvE. and i want to be able to get it playing PvE. end of story

 

p.s also this is not real life this is a game in which i expect to get away from real life issues. the moment this becomes a chore and loses it's fun is the moment it loses my interest

Edited October 30, 2015 by ..atom..

[Rivy]

 

I understand what you're saying but think of PvP as new content like raids, bosses, ect. 

Again, PvP and PvE are completely different experiences.

Competitive gameplay is pretty much a different genre from co-op, and it's one many people didn't sign up for when they installed WF.

In fact one of the selling points of PvP in this game was "it won't affect PvE ever", I would have been opposed to it had I known it would start getting mods usable in PvE.

 

These mods may not be the best ever, but it's obvious new PvP mods will come.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

Again, PvP and PvE are completely different experiences.

Competitive gameplay is pretty much a different genre from co-op, and it's one many people didn't sign up for when they installed WF.

In fact one of the selling points of PvP in this game was "it won't affect PvE ever", I would have been opposed to it had I known it would start getting mods usable in PvE.

 

These mods may not be the best ever, but it's obvious new PvP mods will come.

Yes they are different just like doing a raid is different that other pve content. Archwing is different than normal pve. All aspects have arguable differences that doesn't change anything. So far the only valid point I've seen from anyone is the breaking of a promise to keep things separate. But how could they justify putting so much time and effort into recreating the PvP mode and not provide incentive for everyone to do it not just pvpers. I understand you feel lied to but the game is undergoing some massive changes. Yes the promise was ill made and frankly shouldn't have been made at all but since that time so many drastic changes have occurred and many more are still to come. Things change over time and they might not have realized where they would be now when they made that promise. I have faith that with future changes of mods and star chart all these issues will be resolved. DE has a direction they're going and we have no way of knowing the details. Even if there are a few things you have to do PvP for I really don't see that as a big deal at all. You all act like you've never had to do something you didn't wanna do and surely that's not the case.

[Rivy]

Yes they are different just like doing a raid is different that other pve content. Archwing is different than normal pve. All aspects have arguable differences that doesn't change anything. 

Those are still co-op. You need to understand playing against other people is a huge, enormous, gargantuan deal-fricking-breaker. Many (myself included) jumped on WF because co-op focused games like this one are not common and because we hate PvP in any form.

 

It's miles apart from AW.

[tnccs215]

Yes they are different just like doing a raid is different that other pve content. Archwing is different than normal pve. All aspects have arguable differences that doesn't change anything. So far the only valid point I've seen from anyone is the breaking of a promise to keep things separate. But how could they justify putting so much time and effort into recreating the PvP mode and not provide incentive for everyone to do it not just pvpers. I understand you feel lied to but the game is undergoing some massive changes. Yes the promise was ill made and frankly shouldn't have been made at all but since that time so many drastic changes have occurred and many more are still to come. Things change over time and they might not have realized where they would be now when they made that promise. I have faith that with future changes of mods and star chart all these issues will be resolved. DE has a direction they're going and we have no way of knowing the details. Even if there are a few things you have to do PvP for I really don't see that as a big deal at all. You all act like you've never had to do something you didn't wanna do and surely that's not the case.

Raid is pure pve. Archwing is different, but it's still pve (and yes, I have mixed feeling about the new raid). Pvp is people against people. It's competition, not cooperation. It's not only different: it's the opposite. And, as so, most people that don't play pvp don't do it because they don't like pvp at its core. If you want to incentive people to play pvp, you improve the pvp experience, you don't lock stuff for pve behind it. That's not incentive, that's forcing. You won't make people play pvp because it's good. You are making them play it out of obligation, because they won't be able to get the good stuff other way. It won't be a game, it will be a job.

This is more personal, but I joined Warframe because it was a co-op game. I always loved co-op games, because people help each other. Because, even though you are murdering through hords of enemies, you are doing it to ai, and with a sense of helping the other, of comradeship. I chose warframe because I was tired of the toxic elitism and competition that exists on pvp games, were everyone is trying to beat the crap out of another. And seeing that now, I will be forced to join that toxic environment--again-- so I can better perform with my FELLOW Tenno... Yeah... No. Just... no.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

Raid is pure pve. Archwing is different, but it's still pve (and yes, I have mixed feeling about the new raid). Pvp is people against people. It's competition, not cooperation. It's not only different: it's the opposite. And, as so, most people that don't play pvp don't do it because they don't like pvp at its core. If you want to incentive people to play pvp, you improve the pvp experience, you don't lock stuff for pve behind it. That's not incentive, that's forcing. You won't make people play pvp because it's good. You are making them play it out of obligation, because they won't be able to get the good stuff other way. It won't be a game, it will be a job.

This is more personal, but I joined Warframe because it was a co-op game. I always loved co-op games, because people help each other. Because, even though you are murdering through hords of enemies, you are doing it to ai, and with a sense of helping the other, of comradeship. I chose warframe because I was tired of the toxic elitism and competition that exists on pvp games, were everyone is trying to beat the crap out of another. And seeing that now, I will be forced to join that toxic environment--again-- so I can better perform with my FELLOW Tenno... Yeah... No. Just... no.

That makes absolutely no sense. You say those people don't like PvP bc they don't like going against other players then say to incentivize them improve the PvP system. Um well it's still gonna be PvP so that doesn't incentivize anything. They overhauled PvP completely already. No pve content is locked behind it. Those mods are literally the worst mods possible for pve only a totally idiot would use them in pve. They are not pve content. I understand what you're saying about it being a co-op game and I agree that why I love it. I don't like PvPing in any game at all but doing so to get an item I want is not the end of the world. In fact it's not a big deal at all. You get rep win or loose so it doesn't even matter if your good.

[(XBOX)DRKing7287]

I don't call an extra 45% damage to a bow a bad mod. it's basically charged chamber for daikyu. Reloading while holstered? Boy, that ones are very, very good. Your supra's out of juice? Swap to secondary, wait, swap again.

Regardless of quality--which, sometimes, like these, is subjective--It IS pve content locked behind pvp. It's not incentive, it's cohersion.

But whatever! You can't have nice things after all, isn't?

This won't make me play pvp. This will only make me more upset about ANOTHER good thing spoiled.

Only thing that's saves this is the possibility this mods will be implemented in the drop tables of pve. But they could have made that already.

When the bow is terrible, worse than all the others even with the mod then yeah I'd say it's pretty pointless. You're gonna sacrifice dmg for reloading while equipped really? Bc people swap weapons so much in pve with the terribly slow weapon swap speed. Though I guess you could put the holster mod on plus that one but then you might as well just stand there bc you're not gonna do any dmg. If you truly think these are pve valid mods then you don't know how to mod properly.

[Nazrethim]

Raid is pure pve. Archwing is different, but it's still pve (and yes, I have mixed feeling about the new raid). Pvp is people against people. It's competition, not cooperation. It's not only different: it's the opposite. And, as so, most people that don't play pvp don't do it because they don't like pvp at its core. If you want to incentive people to play pvp, you improve the pvp experience, you don't lock stuff for pve behind it. That's not incentive, that's forcing. You won't make people play pvp because it's good. You are making them play it out of obligation, because they won't be able to get the good stuff other way. It won't be a game, it will be a job.

This is more personal, but I joined Warframe because it was a co-op game. I always loved co-op games, because people help each other. Because, even though you are murdering through hords of enemies, you are doing it to ai, and with a sense of helping the other, of comradeship. I chose warframe because I was tired of the toxic elitism and competition that exists on pvp games, were everyone is trying to beat the crap out of another. And seeing that now, I will be forced to join that toxic environment--again-- so I can better perform with my FELLOW Tenno... Yeah... No. Just... no.

So... 4 people cooperating to defeat another team 4 people cooperating isn't a cooperative experience?

 

The problem that tends to come from PvP it's actually easy to fight on paper but requires a cumunity effort: If new players are exposed to douches who just farm them, insult them and don't try to teach them how to improve will likely quit or become douches themeselves. I try to catch any new player I can find in Conclave and point them in the path of the good competitor, "Humble in victory, graceful in defeat, honorable in combat" and teach them some of the basics and how to deal with douches. Now take that to a cumunity level and you reduce the amount of douches because they aren't reproducing.

 

About not liking PvP, I will tell you a story:

A few years ago my friends began playing an onlyne game which had terrible pve, namely the only pve options were "grind mobs" and "do quests that demand grinding mobs", I didn't like it, but my friends had fun with it, why? because you could level trough pvp and the game mechanincs made possible for players to beat other players of higher level even in 1v1 combat. I hate PvP at the time so I quit the game, months passed and my friends had fun with it and experimented a lot of awesome and funny moments while I grumbled to myself what was the fun of PvPing. Years passed and we began playing another game, when we finally  reached the levle cap we discovered that PvE was abundant but had limits, once you got bored your only option was to PvP, I gave it a try and actually enjoyed the thrill of fighting other players, there were moments of rage, moments of awesome but mostly funny moments. THEN I understood how much of a doche I was and how much fun I didn't experienced because of my stubborness, nowadays I play PvP for fun and challenge (yes I have my rage moments but that's mostly for "fake balance" or outright imbalance which also enrage me in PvE [like a certain game where only 1 class out of 6-10 is useful] ).

[tnccs215]

I like the daikyu. It feels good, and it's pretty. Not only, this could be the mod that made the daikyu as effective as others: 45% damage is very good, and fits the daikyu style.

And I (and pretty much everyone here) already stressed enough that the problem is the quality of the mods locked, it's the fact they are locked at all, so I won't waste time with that.

Plus... Try putting gas on daikyu and run triton. It's fun, it's fun...

[Rivy]

So... 4 people cooperating to defeat another team 4 people cooperating isn't a cooperative experience?

Nope, it's competition between teams. Sure they cooperate within each team, still doesn't make it cooperative gameplay (ie: we are not arguing semantics).

 

About not liking PvP, I will tell you a story:

Irrelevant personal experience.