So. Pve Stuff Available Only Through Pvp?

[Naqel]

Ridiculous, PvE items should be set with PvE, and PvP with PvP,  no mix and match here.

 

Quite the opposite should happen.

Everything should be obtainable through at least 2-3 channels.

 

PvP exclusive mods should(occasionally) drop in PvE, PvE exclusive ones should occasionally be awarded through PvP, Archwing content should reward you with resources usable elswhere, and Telerium should also drop from missions that do not require a wing to participate.

 

Segregating the game discourages players who might otherwise want to try other modes by increasing the barrier to entry they face, rewards usable only in the mode they are obtainable within discourages deviating from the main mode of play.

 

 

Hell, in a perfect world, the game should use the same balance for PvE and PvP, allowing those interested to seamlessly blend the two experiences, similar to true MMO titles, while still retaining the ability for those uninterested to opt-out of certain parts entirely(for example by splitting the raids into distinct air-space and ground teams, the ground team never entering an archwing section).

 

Of course, such an extent of freedom would require sacrifices the mostly petulant and childish "never nerf" userbase would allow, but I am talking in ideals here.

Edited November 2, 2015 by Naqel

[SickoSike]

-snip-

I'd agree with your ideas and intake of integrating game-plays together by gating something behind a specific content if the said so content matched with what the main part of the game is and should be. PvP is a whole another game, with different lay-outs and systems DE is trying to implement in their game. This not only outrages me or other players, even PvPers felt that something was wrong about this because you're adding PvE content that has nothing to do with PvE, even if the PvP mods are optional to be of use to PvE, they should've just withdrawn from that idea instead of putting this sort of gating into the waters with us, they are two different games for two different people with different ideas of how one wants to play this game. There is no segregation here it's just different game modes and that's how it should be, you cannot combine elements of PvP and PvE together in the same matter because they are two different game modes.

We're looking at mods that are somewhat negligible at the very moment that's locked behind PvP content, what's going to happen when DE nerfs multi-shot and starts adding important mods that would probably be useful for utilization specific builds or adding variety and promoting different ideas in game-play? or damage boosting mods that will give you an advantage over other players that didn't want to play PvP for the very fact that it's a team co-op game where players work together to kill different factions and have fun instead of promoting toxic environment in competitive game-play.

With that being said, above my post I agreed about integrating PvE elements with other modes (Archwings) because they're both in the same matter on the same game mode.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

Ridiculous, PvE items should be set with PvE, and PvP with PvP, no mix and match here.

Everybody has their own play-style and DE should try to respect that instead of gating a reward people would love by putting it behind a content most people didn't play this game for from the very beginning and by gaining it with only two choices. A. Putting money in the game by trade to buy it or B. Giving no choice to players with no plat but to play through contents they probably will not want to go through as most of the player base is based off PvE content not competitive game-play, If I wanted to PvP I'd play other games than stick with the PvP systems they tried to implement here, which believe me, needs a lot of work and improvements.

Edit: The only mix and match I'd support would be Archwings, but so many things are missing in Archwings that I wouldn't even want to deal with the content once I'm burnt out of it's game-mode, I'd love to see an integration from regular gameplay to Archwings which they already had introduced in Uranus (Sharkwing) and now with Jorda's quest and the Archwings raid although it hasn't been well perfected I kinda trust in D.E that they'll improve those game-play and make it fun for us in the future, however the main point, I just honestly believe PvE should stay respectively in it's own mode, just as PvP should be on it's own, they are TWO separate modes within Warframe.

You are aware they are already mixed right, how do you get pvp, oh right pve....

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

If the fact that they are tradeable is sufficiently fair, why don't we have some pvp usable mods locked behind archwing? I could always sell you my extras, so that's still cool right? No? Well I guess that it isn't fair to keep mods usable in PvE buried in conclave either.

[Nazrethim]

If the fact that they are tradeable is sufficiently fair, why don't we have some pvp usable mods locked behind archwing? I could always sell you my extras, so that's still cool right? No? Well I guess that it isn't fair to keep mods usable in PvE buried in conclave either.

PvP mods behind AW? that doesn't make sense unless it comes from some sort of AW racing or quidich. I would trade for them if the AW content proves to annoying or grindy to bother.

The mods we are discussing AREN'T PvE mods, those are PvP mods locked behind PvP that you just can equip in PvE if you wish.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

PvP mods behind AW? that doesn't make sense unless it comes from some sort of AW racing or quidich. I would trade for them if the AW content proves to annoying or grindy to bother.

The mods we are discussing AREN'T PvE mods, those are PvP mods locked behind PvP that you just can equip in PvE if you wish.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE PVE MODS THAT ARE LOCKED BEHIND PVE AND USABLE IN PVP, AND THE WEAPONS, AND THE WARFRAME, jeez your basically being hypocritical at this point -_-

[Inarticulate]

Hell, in a perfect world, the game should use the same balance for PvE and PvP, allowing those interested to seamlessly blend the two experiences, similar to true MMO titles, while still retaining the ability for those uninterested to opt-out of certain parts entirely(for example by splitting the raids into distinct air-space and ground teams, the ground team never entering an archwing section).

No, PvE and PvP should not use the same balance.

 

Looking at the balance of Warframe's PvP, DE's PvP philosophy is to balance all equipment so that all of it is viable for use. This is a good philosophy to have in a PvP setting as it gives players a broad range of choices and allows them to target specific builds that cater to the play styles they want to play.

 

This type of balance, however, would leave the PvE aspect with no sense of progression. Warframe already suffers from having very little progression, and making all weapons viable in endgame PvE would destroy most of what's left. If you want to have all equipment viable and have a sense of progression as you play through the early- and mid-game, we need something more than just collecting and ranking mods.

 

 

 

The mods we are discussing AREN'T PvE mods, those are PvP mods locked behind PvP that you just can equip in PvE if you wish.

For the last time, BEING PVP CONTENT DOESN'T EXCLUDE IT FROM BEING PVE CONTENT. This is content that can be used in both PvE and PvP, and therefore it is both PvE content and PvP content.

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

I said PvP usable, not PvP exclusive. Try reading each word carefully next time. It is the same principle only in reverse, and that is the point. The PvP crowd defending this garbage decision would collectively lose their minds if they had to farm archwing defenses for some PvE mods that just happened to be usable in PvP but can't remotely grasp why this current arrangement is such an affront to the rest of us. DE should have never bothered introducing PvP into Warframe in the first place, but forcing us to endure it unless we want to buy bs mods from greedy tools is far worse. Do we need the mods? No. Do many of us want them? Yes, for various reasons. Here's a thought you might have missed in your lust for plat:

If they were also farmable in PvE, you could easily obtain them without having to waste your precious conclave standing on them. A few things less taunting you in Teshin's crummy shop would be a good thing. Try to see something other than your plat supply now and then.

[SnakeWildlife]

I didnt play Warframes PvE for 3 years to be told im doing it wrong.  Dont do this DE.

[(XBOX)Master4733]

I said PvP usable, not PvP exclusive. Try reading each word carefully next time. It is the same principle only in reverse, and that is the point. The PvP crowd defending this garbage decision would collectively lose their minds if they had to farm archwing defenses for some PvE mods that just happened to be usable in PvP but can't remotely grasp why this current arrangement is such an affront to the rest of us. DE should have never bothered introducing PvP into Warframe in the first place, but forcing us to endure it unless we want to buy bs mods from greedy tools is far worse. Do we need the mods? No. Do many of us want them? Yes, for various reasons. Here's a thought you might have missed in your lust for plat:

If they were also farmable in PvE, you could easily obtain them without having to waste your precious conclave standing on them. A few things less taunting you in Teshin's crummy shop would be a good thing. Try to see something other than your plat supply now and then.

I'd be fine with grinding pvp USABLE mods in archwing... archwing is overall easy, but hey I don't matter because I see all points of the arguement

I didnt play Warframes PvE for 3 years to be told im doing it wrong. Dont do this DE.

Your doing it wrong, casual :D

[SickoSike]

Your doing it wrong, casual :D

You're*

[(XBOX)Master4733]

You're*

You're correcting me wrong I'm the master here, pun intended

[Nazrethim]

If they were also farmable in PvE, you could easily obtain them without having to waste your precious conclave standing on them. A few things less taunting you in Teshin's crummy shop would be a good thing. Try to see something other than your plat supply now and then.

First of all, those mods are the ONLY carrot on the stick because Teshin doesn't have void keys, syadanas or weapons for us. And when those who participate in the Conclave request cosmetics usable in PvE to show off the fruit of our effort, patience and dedication there are a lot of doches you cry for that to not be implemented just because they don't like Conclave. What do you expect I spend my standing on? Sigils that I can't use outside of conclave? (some sigils look awesome and I want them in all my frames, in both pve and pvp)

If those mods become farmable in PvE, then EVERY single content available in PvP should be obtained in PvP too, that means frames and weapons, including event and primed versions. Would you be ok with that?

[Inarticulate]

And when those who participate in the Conclave request cosmetics usable in PvE to show off the fruit of our effort, patience and dedication there are a lot of doches you cry for that to not be implemented just because they don't like Conclave. What do you expect I spend my standing on? Sigils that I can't use outside of conclave? (some sigils look awesome and I want them in all my frames, in both pve and pvp)

Honestly, I wouldn't mind if cosmetics only available from PvP are usable in PvE. Why? Because it has zero impact on gameplay. And I mean exactly zero, not almost zero. The mods in question are almost zero, which sets a very different precedent.

 

 

If those mods become farmable in PvE, then EVERY single content available in PvP should be obtained in PvP too, that means frames and weapons, including event and primed versions. Would you be ok with that?

The flaw with this argument is the fact that you cannot progress through the game by exclusively playing Conclave, nor can you progress through the game at all in a practical sense by playing Conclave. Conclave progression is, by design, progression only within the Conclave, whereas progression through the game as a whole is done through the PvE mode (which is, apparently by design, both ground cooperative and Archwing).

Edited November 3, 2015 by Inarticulate

[(PSN)MobiusN749]

First of all, those mods are the ONLY carrot on the stick because Teshin doesn't have void keys, syadanas or weapons for us. And when those who participate in the Conclave request cosmetics usable in PvE to show off the fruit of our effort, patience and dedication there are a lot of doches you cry for that to not be implemented just because they don't like Conclave. What do you expect I spend my standing on? Sigils that I can't use outside of conclave? (some sigils look awesome and I want them in all my frames, in both pve and pvp)

If those mods become farmable in PvE, then EVERY single content available in PvP should be obtained in PvP too, that means frames and weapons, including event and primed versions. Would you be ok with that?

Now to be fair I think most of the irritation about this is that it means its harder or more grindy for PvE people to get the stuff that can be used in PvE but its a good point I lost all interest in PvP when I found out that even the cosmetics were PvP only. It probably doesn't help the situation that nobody wants to sell the loot though. Still you dont see archwing dropping serrations or system reroute being usable out of archwing do you? Its the same principal here... Except realistically speaking I doubt tenno and sentients or any other enemies share enough combat similarity to make this training tenshin talks about any use to us at all and archwing is used in the story.

[atom]

First of all, those mods are the ONLY carrot on the stick because Teshin doesn't have void keys, syadanas or weapons for us. And when those who participate in the Conclave request cosmetics usable in PvE to show off the fruit of our effort, patience and dedication there are a lot of doches you cry for that to not be implemented just because they don't like Conclave. What do you expect I spend my standing on? Sigils that I can't use outside of conclave? (some sigils look awesome and I want them in all my frames, in both pve and pvp)

If those mods become farmable in PvE, then EVERY single content available in PvP should be obtained in PvP too, that means frames and weapons, including event and primed versions. Would you be ok with that?

you bring up a valid point here. once you max conclave you have nothing left to spend points on (however that is true with other syndicates as well, and you can trade the mods even if they are only restricted to PvP, the demand is there i know it firsthand). while i don't agree with being rewarded with exlusive items usable in PvE i most definately think something more should be offered by tenshin. maybe keys, cores, forma, potatos, tomatos?

 

making conclave sigils usable in PvE could maybe be tied to an alternate way of gaining rep for PvP without actually paricipating in PvP? something like gaining rep at a reduced rate in PvE perhaps, or via some sort of challange like the bonus xp ones we currenlty have?

Edited November 3, 2015 by ..atom..

[(XBOX)Skode]

 

Changes:

• The following Conclave Mods can now be used in PvE:
  • Reflex Draw / Twitch / Soft Hands (Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun) - Increased Holster/Draw speed.
  • Spry Sights / Agile Aim / Snap Shot (Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun) - Increased movement speed when aiming down sights.
  • Air Recon / Overview / Broad Eye (Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun) - increased FoV when Aim Gliding
  • Eject Magazine / Tactical Reload / Lock and Load (Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun) - weapons reload while holstered.
  • Gun Glide / Double-Barrel Drift / Strafing Slide (Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun) - Increased accuracy and reduced recoil while sliding.
  • Spring Loaded Broadhead (Daikyu) - Increased damage after the projectile has traveled 20m.

 

Oooh i approve DE, i esp like the idea of getting weapon mods via conclave. Maybe this will get the mode a bit more active vs "draco/void inv plz" which is about 94% of the community esp with rail conflicts gone the old PvP lovers never really gave conclave a go because there was no main mode reward for doing so.

[atom]

Oooh i approve DE, i esp like the idea of getting weapon mods via conclave. Maybe this will get the mode a bit more active vs "draco/void inv plz" which is about 94% of the community esp with rail conflicts gone the old PvP lovers never really gave conclave a go because there was no main mode reward for doing so.

i think you are wrong and i'll tell you why. if you remember there was practically no reward for the old rail conflict (except for when the clans abused the credit rewards) and players were in it just for fun even if was extremely broken.

if they are not into the current version of PvP it is because they don't enjoy it. forcing players to PvP will lead to some very nasty issues and bad experiances overall like abusing the latest broken meta, toxic behaviour, and general unpleasntness for lovers and haters of the mode alike.

[(XBOX)Skode]

i think you are wrong and i'll tell you why. if you remember there was practically no reward for the old rail conflict (except for when the clans abused the credit rewards) and players were in it just for fun even if was extremely broken.

if they are not into the current version of PvP it is because they don't enjoy it. forcing players to PvP will lead to some very nasty issues and bad experiances overall like abusing the latest broken meta, toxic behaviour, and general unpleasntness for lovers and haters of the mode alike.

People ran them for the credit rewards or for their alliance. The conflicts got tasty esp with the bigger clashes... there was always incentives. Still do explain terms like *forced* and "unpleasantness for fans and haters alike".

 

No one is forced to do any mode - void or nightmare, raids or archwing and yes PvP. Pissed off its got a half dozen mods exclusive to the mode? Trade for them like the other hundreds of mods and never be "forced" to play the mode ever again...

Edited November 3, 2015 by (XB1)Skode

[Nazrethim]

you bring up a valid point here. once you max conclave you have nothing left to spend points on (however that is true with other syndicates as well, and you can trade the mods even if they are only restricted to PvP, the demand is there i know it firsthand). while i don't agree with being rewarded with exlusive items usable in PvE i most definately think something more should be offered by tenshin. maybe keys, cores, forma, potatos, tomatos?

 

making conclave sigils usable in PvE could maybe be tied to an alternate way of gaining rep for PvP without actually paricipating in PvP? something like gaining rep at a reduced rate in PvE perhaps, or via some sort of challange like the bonus xp ones we currenlty have?

I find hilarious that you mention forma, potatos and tomatos as rewards, because THEN people will be "forced" to do conclave to get those. And those are way more mandatory than a crapy holster rate mods, believe me.

I think if PvE players want to get rewards from Conclave trough PvE content, then that content must:

A) Use Conclave loadout (so they won't cheesy it with overpowered weapons)

B) The content vs AI should be reminicent of PvP (imagine Stalkers that move like zanuka harvester with the firepower of g3) instead of the waves of target practice dummys to make it a challenging experience rather than another survival/exterminate

 

Also, check your logic: If it's a purely cosmetic (i.e. Syadanna) it's dead wrong, but if it's something to facilitate your standing gain with ZERO EFFORT, then that's ok.

 

And... if you step in the Conclave, you are probably going to be the toxic , judging by your zeal towards pvp.

[(PSN)MobiusN749]

I find hilarious that you mention forma, potatos and tomatos as rewards, because THEN people will be "forced" to do conclave to get those. And those are way more mandatory than a crapy holster rate mods, believe me.

I think if PvE players want to get rewards from Conclave trough PvE content, then that content must:

A) Use Conclave loadout (so they won't cheesy it with overpowered weapons)

B) The content vs AI should be reminicent of PvP (imagine Stalkers that move like zanuka harvester with the firepower of g3) instead of the waves of target practice dummys to make it a challenging experience rather than another survival/exterminate

 

Also, check your logic: If it's a purely cosmetic (i.e. Syadanna) it's dead wrong, but if it's something to facilitate your standing gain with ZERO EFFORT, then that's ok.

 

And... if you step in the Conclave, you are probably going to be the toxic , judging by your zeal towards pvp.

Well now there's a good idea. Anyone got complaints? 'Cause I sure dont.

[(XBOX)Archibald Jax]

Potatoes, tomatoes, and forma? I can't go to the void eithout tripping over forma, potatoes come from alerts, and Simaris sells tomato bps. Add them to conclave, won't bother me a bit. I get what I need and then some in PvE for all of the above.

[Stormdragon]

Well now there's a good idea. Anyone got complaints? 'Cause I sure dont.

If you think that a "good idea" is giving pvp standing for wearing its sigils in pve instead of making them purely cosmetic, you're totally wrong (totally absurd, a bad joke for anyone who plays conclave). Even more wrong if you think giving mandatory items, such as forma or potato, for pvp syndicate standing is right. (Players will complain for not being able to get them from any other syndicate, just like these mods)

Giving cosmetics (no game breaking) would be fine there's a syandana per syndicate, being the conclave one the exception. (Would be the same for weapons but pve players would cry seas if there was 1 weapon pvp locked. Just look what happens with some little utility mods.)

So if you say that any of those is an idea, I'm sad to tell we're going back to the start.

Potatoes, tomatoes, and forma? I can't go to the void eithout tripping over forma, potatoes come from alerts, and Simaris sells tomato bps. Add them to conclave, won't bother me a bit. I get what I need and then some in PvE for all of the above.

You're just 1 player who agrees, but part of the community will start telling things like "that is pve content locked behind pve to force conclave down our throats" for reasons like: waiting for an alert or grineer/corpus battlepay to get a potato while pvp players can have potato/tomato bp almost anytime as long as they keep playing conclave. even 50 standing for a bp means 2 each 5 days for a rank 19 player, while low mastery players will have a harder time mostly due to daily limits.

Edited November 3, 2015 by -----LegioN-----

[Nazrethim]

If you think that a "good idea" is giving pvp standing for wearing its sigils in pve instead of making them purely cosmetic, you're totally wrong (totally absurd, a bad joke for anyone who plays conclave). Even more wrong if you think giving mandatory items, such as forma or potato, for pvp syndicate standing is right. (Players will complain for not being able to get them from any other syndicate, just like these mods)

Giving cosmetics (no game breaking) would be fine there's a syandana per syndicate, being the conclave one the exception. (Would be the same for weapons but pve players would cry seas if there was 1 weapon pvp locked. Just look what happens with some little utility mods.)

So if you say that any of those is an idea, I'm sad to tell we're going back to the start.

Read what he is answering.

I think he is reffering to the "get Conclave rep trough hard work not by equiping a sigil and getting it the sissy way in draco"

Edited November 3, 2015 by Nazrethim

[Stormdragon]

Read what he is answering.

I think he is reffering to the "get Conclave rep trough hard work not by equiping a sigil and getting it the sissy way in draco"

The whole team should have to use pvp equipment for the mission, or it would be the same (I use conclave gear, you take me to draco and fill my pvp standing. Then I'll do the same) instead I think of syndicate missions with gear restrictions and high level enemies (like the first tactical alerts forcing you to go with low conclave or using melee only etc. But much harder and truly restricting players to avoid cheesy builds/loadouts) maybe playing against a mid-high level hunter (harvester/stalker/g3, maybe some bosses like regor, sargas ruk or the annoying lech krill and hyena pack. Even some bursas or manics depending on the faction. Not all at once, but high chances of having a hard time) during these missions would do part of the job

B point seems unviable due to current AI state unless most of enemies had the stalker or g3's ai while in these missions

Edited November 3, 2015 by -----LegioN-----