I Found Out Kunai Were Automatic

[Tyrian3k]

Your argument is that it's "semi automatic" which it's a completely different mechanic and there's no reasonable explanation as to why it actually compares to a GUN which has MECHANICS that are replicated by the controls? You can't shoot a kunai. You can't compare it to a gun. Someone else has already posted that constant clicking is a healthy issue as well. A fire rate that fast it also makes no sense to limit it to click per throw. It's going to create fatigue, promote carpal tunnel, any number of issues if people have to constantly click at that kind of speed. Hell, all weapons could be "automatic" and fire while the mouse is clicked rather than forcing a click each time. The kunai function as an automatic weapon. Look at the viper, the fire rate isn't too far off from that. You're comparing it to a semi auto gun when it's not even remotely close to the same thing.

 

The Kunai are actually very slow firing and nowhere near a Viper which fires about 4 times faster than the Kunai, not to mention that we already have semi-automatic guns that fire way faster than the Kunai.

 

DE is adamant on keeping the mechanics for semi-automatic pistols, so that argument is invalid. If you have a problem with clicking due to its effect on your health, you can just use mouse macros to avoid that.

 

The clicking simulates the character performing an action over and over, so the player has to click over and over.

It doesn't matter if that action is pulling a trigger or getting your next Kunai and throw it.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Tyrian3k

[Cytobel]

You give me a reason for it to be "automatic" that is not just convenience then...

If you throw all 10 (base count) knives you're holding in a quick flick, you kill things too quickly.  And how does somebody "charge-up" a knife throw?

Although the thought of a Kunai being practically baseball pitched makes me chuckle.  Not a horrible mental image there, but I think not good logic, necessarily.

Automatic is just a good way to do things for a Beta.  It'll change or it won't.  Probably simpler to program.

[Cytobel]

You can't shoot a kunai.

Why not?  Where's my damn knife launching crossbow?  Thats Tenno enough for the universe, and I've seen some of the "bolts" that you can fire from a crossbow.  Trust me, knives aren't far off at all.  After all, they have guns that fire bolts.  Although I really draw the line at firing battleazes or swords from crossbows, even if it's been done before.  Don't believe me?  Look up the Scorpio and Ballista seige weapons.  Somebody's done it.  Probably the Frankish.  Crazy bastards loved them some strange axe weapons.

 

Guess I'm more amused with the subject than some folks are.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Cytobel

[BlueCremeSoda]

Why not?  Where's my damn knife launching crossbow?  Thats Tenno enough for the universe, and I've seen some of the "bolts" that you can fire from a crossbow.  Trust me, knives aren't far off at all.  After all, they have guns that fire bolts.  Although I really draw the line at firing battleazes or swords from crossbows, even if it's been done before.  Don't believe me?  Look up the Scorpio and Ballista seige weapons.  Somebody's done it.  Probably the Frankish.  Crazy bastards loved them some strange axe weapons.

 

Guess I'm more amused with the subject than some folks are.

Tape a kunai to the paris arrow. Problem solved! Next warframe: Macguyver.

Edited May 31, 2013 by BlueCremeSoda

[Caliocerion]

Guns don't have an erect phallus, complete with gonads, sticking out of the side of them.  3 of the pictured "African Throwing Knives" pictured here do.

 

This weapon was traditionally tied to the manhood of the warrior, and required immense strength to use.  With an effective range of only 15 yards, they were as heavy as a cast iron skillet.  But if they hit you in the leg, that leg was pretty much gone and you were likely sprawled out and bleeding out.

 

So the warriors made one of the many blades a figurative expression of their physical manhood.

What's this I hear?

 

[ValhaHazred]

LOL I bet the Grineer would love that thing :P

I see your Knife Bows and raise you

[Catniss]

It's two entirely different mechanics and your comparison isn't even in the same realm. It's not automatic or semi automatic. You can't compare it to a GUN.

 But yet it uses pistol ammo ;)

[Worira]

If it rustles your jimmies that badly, just click a whole bunch. No one's forcing you to hold down the button.

 

And semi-automatic vs. fully automatic is not a real balancing measure.

[matrixEXO]

 But yet it uses pistol ammo ;)

So does the Bronco and Dual Broncos. I don't see them using shotgun ammo pool. And mechanically speaking, Broncos are shotguns. But uses a bullet round instead of a pellet round? That can magically turn into pellets? I think we know where this is going.

 

Also, Paris and Dread using sniper rounds? Gorgon using rifle rounds? Grakata using rifle rounds (when it should be SMG or pistol, given the damage)?

Edited May 31, 2013 by matrixEXO

[MoyuTheTrinity]

how abouuutttt...

 

you make them semi auto but, its click hold grab knifes release

 

you click and hold and it builds up more ammo in the clip starting from 0 to 1-2-3-4-5 then throws them all at once like a shotgun the more you have the less accuret VERY less accuret but at back stab range it could act like a mini directional radial javlin it nerfs them at far range so you cant spray them super fast unless you click orgy but rewards you for getting close and timing the attack encorperating it into your melee and or parcour this will further diferantciate it from the glave and the paris you could even make it so it loses some armor pen the more you charge it so it will do half the armor pen at max charge but still do more damage then throwing 1 over and over

 

ALSO make well of life the shuriken of life that throws a needle shuriken that heals over time on hit and leaves a heal cloud that heals teammates that can bleed from the knife that is sticking to teammates 83

Edited May 31, 2013 by MoyuTheMedic

[Tlacatecatl]

I am crafting the Kunai right now and I am pretty happy to hear that they are automatic. I really enjoy automatic weapons much more than the semi-automatic clicking. For me personally there are just to many enemies to make them appealing. Especially in the higher levels. So I am happy for every automatic weapon in this game.

[BenHoliday]

Wrong direction guys.

Just because weapons are 'semi-automatic' in the real-world doesn't mean I want a clickfest to use them in a game.

It's not only a matter of convenience but a matter of health as well. Massive clickorgies aren't good for your fingers.

 

In fact, I'd greatly appreciate it if the 'semi-automatic'-game mechanics of this game would go away completely.

 

I mean it's ok to be able to make single shots by 'tapping' your mouse button but if I hold down the mouse button I'd rather prefer every weapon to be 'fully automatic', exactly like the kunai are now. If all weapons were fully automatic that would mean DE has full control over their cadence and can provide better balancing, effectively declawing makros.

 

Kunai need a nerf in damage and/or shouldn't be armour ignoring.

But I also expected to see them work more like the bows, with a charged up attack.

 

Combined with the autofire it would mean that the player is able to queue charged up attacks by simply keeping his mouse button down.

The warframe would simply start charging the next shot once the first is fired. Of course that would mean that the bow would work like a melee weapon, meaning that a shot is automatically released once fully charged, unless the player triggers it sooner by releasing the mousebutton.

 

Honestly, at first I was appalled when I came here and found out that Kunai are automatic. But then I read your post, and in the first half you make a lot of good points about not wanting a semi-auto weapon to require a clickfest to function properly.

 

Having gotten the Kunai to level 22, I also agree that they are OP. They start with two V polarites for Barrel Diffusion and Hornet Strike (both the most expensive and the most powerful pistol mods,) and don't even need AP (which is fairly weak for pistols, 5% per rank) because of the innate armor ignore. My un-potato'd non-max level Kunai are nearly as strong (DPS-wise) as my 60 mod level Akboltos, but they use less ammo and reload faster than even the Bolto.

 

As for the last part ... I don't really think charging a throwing knife attack makes sense. But, it could certainly be utilized to bring a bit more balance to the weapon by giving it the SAME advantage that charged melee attacks do: keep innate armor ignore on charged attacks but remove the armor ignore from basic throws (as well as dealing different damage for charged attacks.) This single idea could do a lot to balance the Kunai.

[Qb3rt]

If ever there were a nerf we could all agree on this would be one of them ... pretty obvious that Kunai shouldn't be full-auto.

[tommyrt]

the current random chance you have to reload 4 times after emptying a 'clip' of kunai is a pretty decent and annoying balance.

[Keiiken]

I was disappointed at first to find out that kunai are automatic but I think it balances out the lack of accuracy at range. Also I believe the kunai will not work with seek (puncture) and will not crit.

[MoyuTheTrinity]

I think that if they where not full auto they would not break and constantly fake reload

[Phoenix86]

@OP: (take it easy :p )

 

[Worira]

If ever there were a nerf we could all agree on this would be one of them ... pretty obvious that Kunai shouldn't be full-auto.

 

It's not a nerf, it's just screwing up the controls.

[Argoms]

The only difference between semi-auto and full auto is feel.

 

Unless you can get a practically unanimous decision that it feels better semi-auto, there would be no reason to change it. I vote for keeping it full auto.

[AlcoholicYordle]

I love running around missions and just going "Pew pew".

[DeadlyNerd]

It would serve as an annoyance more than anything due to their fire rate. It's not as if everything needs to be nerfed to match other things especially if they're intending to add much harder late game content. Does no one consider this when talking about nerfing them?

So you're saying that you wont be able to efficiently use them on harder end game if they were semi auto?

That's a problem with your aim, not the weapon.

 

Currently, with auto fire they're too easy to use for a sidearm that does 45 damage per shot, and has a pretty fast and accurate projectile.

Making them harder to use, but not touching stats, would still keep them powerful in the hands of skilled players, but "annoying to use" in the hands of those not so skilled.

[Enlil]

Answer all the things!

 

It really doesn't affect fire rate (except as you said with a fire rate mod), but it just feels wrong.

 

I have nothing against how fast the knives come out, I just think that you should have to throw each one.  It doesn't make much sense for it to be automatic.

 

I was actually hoping for the same thing, actually.  Like, when DE said "throwing weapons," I obviously thought of the Glaive, and figured they'd add a bunch of different thrown weapons.  I think it would be really cool to have something heavier, like an axe.  Maybe single Zoren that you throw or something?

Jack the Ripper stuf, oh w8. thats not an ninja

[Enlil]

@OP: (take it easy :p )

 

awsome, beter than words can tell.. you are my favourite

[Cytobel]

Tape a kunai to the paris arrow. Problem solved! Next warframe: Macguyver.

Ahh, the thought of what I could do with a Warframe armed with duct tape....  Space duct tape, at that...   :)

 

And as an aside, I have now decided that I'm kind of fond of the full-auto.  It doesn't feel entirely un-Ninja, plus it neatly allows both a stealth option and a good responce to the suprise spy missions sprung on us at the silliest of times.  I guess I'd feel better if it wasn't so damn impossible looking when you've got a full off-hand (and by the way, futuristic space ninjas that can't use a thumb drive?).

 

The full auto while both hands are free doesn't bug me more than trying to fend off infested or whatnot with a mysteriously double-loaded Viper or Lato does when you have the dual versions.  I mean, come on, if you can do that to deal with carrying the tackiest briefcase in the entire solar system, why then would you ever stop double loading?

Edited June 2, 2013 by Cytobel

[ra9una]

In real life I can't shoot out a bunch of knives in a few seconds, thus I want to be able to in the game.