Primary/secondary/melee Needs To Go- Please Read Devs

[BadlandsHyena]

Lol this thread.

 

Anyway, disagreed with your ideas. 

 

My take?

I like the way it's being done.

 

I care not for (only one weapon).

They choice is there for me, I can choose to use Kunais the whole way, or all of them at regular intervals.

 

Also, I like the idea of having two weapon types, one for a certain enemy, one for shielded enemies. 

 

Yep.

[Worira]

OP sure has a lot of assertions he isn't backing up in any way.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

yet again another reply of "its fine"

when its 5 months from now and the majority of the userbase has moved onto the next f2p game, you'll understand

 

the current system is akin to a halflife source mod's alpha , it is not functional and does not support proper balance.

 

sidearms and melee weapons are not encouraged to be used

 

the weapon balancing is on a per case basis which is tedious and contradictory to their development style

 

Remove the current system, replace it with a slot based system. 

A developer will look at this and try to determine what this complaint is truly about, I am not complaining that the sidearms and melee weapons are underpowered and do not compare to the primary. I am complaining because the current systems in place do not encourage using anything but your primary.

 

There are other ways to balance this, you've tried limiting ammo but this never works and you just have people complaining about no ammo and thus you went and made ammo so plentiful I never run out even if I am spamming my primary weapon nonstop.

 

I think the developers of this game do not understand why people like this game and are just supplementing the current audience with what they think they want. Its not what they need, you need to find ways to encourage people to use what content you have made and not resort to endlessly rolling out new content until the limited attention span of the masses shifts to the next F2P game. You have to design systems for long term.

 

Unless you have reliable statistical data to prove your generalization,  you should stop making baseless assumptions about how you think people are playing the game.

 

Personally, I'm using all kinds of weapons, I mix and match all the time and avoid staying with one weapon once it's maxed out.

I've learned so much by being experimental and you can too if you just take a stab at it. And yes, that pun was intentional.

 

If you want to use the Lex as your primary, what's keeping you from not using the other weapons? I don't really see the point of a slot system here as the devs are quite capable of handling the weapons once they get the major issues out of the way. I highly doubt you have any experience in game balancing, if so you'd learn to gather facts before trying to present assumptions as "truth".

Edited May 31, 2013 by Hap-muhr

[Thilain]

I dont agree with OP at all. I primary use melee and usually top damage/kill at the end. I like the current system because I can mix and match however i want dont try to take that away from me.

[Phoenix86]

Agree with the first 3 answers... disagree at 100% sorry.

 

U want to main a Lex? Press F (by default) and have fun.

U want to main a Fragor? Press E only to attack.

[BenHoliday]

The OP clearly doesn't know what he's talking about. Marketing is not about one opinion, it is about the average effect on a group. His opinion is just one opinion, and while he'd like to change the game to better fit his own tastes, that doesn't mean it is a majority opinion, and it most certainly does not mean it is worth overhauling one of the basic ways your weapon loadout functions to be more like ME3.

 

He says there is no reason to use secondary or melee weapons, which may be true for him, but it is certainly not true for all of us.

 

Melee weapons are a useful way to conserve ammo for weapons like the Dual Vipers or Gorgon, and they can be used without having to switch weapons. I'm not really a fan of ammo-hungry weapons, but I often use melee to kill nearby enemies so I don't run empty on hordes of enemies as often. Also, the knockdown effects from certain melee weapon jump attacks are quite useful if you don't have an AE nuke (or are low on energy.) To be fair, I've been using melee at lot less now that I have Dethcube, but that means I can use the Glaive in that slot (and I do enjoy me some Glaive action.)

 

As for secondary weapons, at this point I'm sort of forced to use secondary weapons as my primaries. Why? Because I've got two copies of Barrel Diffusion, and only just this morning got my first copy of Hell's Chamber, and still no Split Chambers. My Akboltos are both more powerful AND more ammo efficient than any primary weapon because I don't have Split Chamber yet, or Hell's Chamber maxed.

 

But aside from all those things, it's the difference in mods between weapon types that make the most significant differences. Pistols only get 5% AP which is why innate armor ignore on a secondary weapon is very important to me.  Shotguns only have 5 ranks of Point Blank, but they also have 15% per rank of AP damage, as opposed to 10% per rank on Rifles. Pistols also have the advantage of a high-rank base damage mod (Hornet Strike is 20% damage per rank, and doesn't stop at 5 ranks,) combined with a 120% multishot mod (Rifle Multishot maxes at 90%.) That right there is enough reason for me to continue to use my pistols even once I get Split Chamber.

 

Just because YOU don't feel any reason to use non-primary weapons doesn't mean the same is true for the rest of us.

[Zectifin]

I think the current system is perfect.

I do not agree with OP

[Kratier]

"Melee weapons are a useful way to conserve ammo"

ammo consumption is a non-issue and has been for a very long time,

"he'd like to change the game to better fit his own tastes"

no, i'd like a system that encourages using all weapons

"He says there is no reason to use secondary or melee weapons, which may be true for him, but it is certainly not true for all of us."

yet again,  I don't have the numbers, the developers certainly do. I am speaking to the developers, not you.

 

 

The only sort of replies I will get are case by case responses of people trying to claim they use anything other than their primary for the large majority of the time.

 

Ill repeat my issues with the current system again because clearly its gone over your heads:

 

Ammo is so abundant that it makes secondary and melee useless.

 

Secondary and Melee weapons are not being encouraged to use.

 

The current development process is focusing on distracting you with a new primary every content patch.

 

Due to the nature of the game-play revolving around only players using their primary weapon with an endless supply of ammo the focus of development will always revolve around this fact.

 

The development process needs to focus more on a modular system in where a player can experiment with what weapons he wants to bring to a mission. This encourages experimentation with the development process when producing new weapons and provides a better experience to the player. The modular system would enable you to develop weapons with varying degrees of power without the need to balance all weapons on a case by case basis. This allows for developers to have the foresight so they are not reduced to being assembly line workers churning out new primary weapons from one update to the next.
 

[Beelzebubbles]

No, I think you just don't comprehend how f2p games are marketed and designed.

I'm not going to sit here repeating the same statements over and over again to someone who's first game or first f2p game is this one. This is a marketing system and development system that has failed numerous times in the past.

 

I already explained several times now why it fails, and my suggestion is one that alleviates that issue.

 

If you still can't comprehend that fact, I can't help you.

 

Sorry man, but the responsibility for being understood falls to the person that is trying to explain his/her position.  You're not convincing people and you might think you're making a good argument, but you're not.

 

You may well have valid points and you may well be right, but you're not getting your point across in a way that is convincing anyone.

[Lumdalumlum]

If you wan to use melee only then just spam E all the way. No one says that when there is a gun u have to use it...  If we can mix and match any weapon we want. Wont it be a little crazy when people start carrying like 1 hek 1 gorgon 1 paris around? 

[Crewell]

I like the current setup better than the OP's suggestion. Pairing all three weapons so that you can either min-max or just try unusual combinations is part of the game's fun.

Also I almost on my 5th weapon page to persue trying out different combos.

[Beelzebubbles]

"Melee weapons are a useful way to conserve ammo"

ammo consumption is a non-issue and has been for a very long time,

 

Ammo consumption is an issue if you main a weapon that runs through ammo quickly. I like to use Twin Vipers as my primary. This can be problematic on endless defense.

 

"he'd like to change the game to better fit his own tastes"

no, i'd like a system that encourages using all weapons

 

I agree that there are weapons that just aren't worth using, but I don't understand how changing this system will encourage the use of those weapons.  Currently, the balance is that you pick a rifle or shotgun that balances out your pistol.  One of them should be conservative on ammo, one should handle ranged enemies, one should handle crowds.  The melee weapon is more of a style choice--do you want crowd control or big damage, etc.

 

The only sort of replies I will get are case by case responses of people trying to claim they use anything other than their primary for the large majority of the time.

 

This isn't an argument that supports your case, nor can you throw out the data.  Doesn't the fact that people are saying they DO main the non-primary weapons defeat your argument? 

Edited May 31, 2013 by Beelzebubbles

[Shifty_Shuffler]

@OP, your off your rocker mate if you think melee and 'secondary' weapons are useless. No idea how your playing the game, but I generally use all three weapons during mission, melee more when fighting the infested though.

 

100% disagree with your suggestion.

[GloriousYellowEmperor]

Wow, I wish I could assume my opinion was everyone's opinion.

Sorry, OP, but it sounds more like you yelling "I am superior you fools this game is of my design and should be what I want because of reasons only I understand". Feedback is great, but if you can't convince anyone to listen its going nowhere.

[ElementLordofMilk]

"Melee weapons are a useful way to conserve ammo"

ammo consumption is a non-issue and has been for a very long time,

"he'd like to change the game to better fit his own tastes"

no, i'd like a system that encourages using all weapons

"He says there is no reason to use secondary or melee weapons, which may be true for him, but it is certainly not true for all of us."

yet again,  I don't have the numbers, the developers certainly do. I am speaking to the developers, not you.

 

 

The only sort of replies I will get are case by case responses of people trying to claim they use anything other than their primary for the large majority of the time.

 

Ill repeat my issues with the current system again because clearly its gone over your heads:

 

Ammo is so abundant that it makes secondary and melee useless.

 

Secondary and Melee weapons are not being encouraged to use.

 

The current development process is focusing on distracting you with a new primary every content patch.

 

Due to the nature of the game-play revolving around only players using their primary weapon with an endless supply of ammo the focus of development will always revolve around this fact.

 

The development process needs to focus more on a modular system in where a player can experiment with what weapons he wants to bring to a mission. This encourages experimentation with the development process when producing new weapons and provides a better experience to the player. The modular system would enable you to develop weapons with varying degrees of power without the need to balance all weapons on a case by case basis. This allows for developers to have the foresight so they are not reduced to being assembly line workers churning out new primary weapons from one update to the next.

If you wanted to speak directly to the devs, why did you post in the forums where most responses are from players? And if you're saying that to make people stop disagreeing with you, look at all the times people have said things like that, and then look at how many times that resulted in anything but ire. Yeah, that has never worked ever.

Also, did you read ANY of the replies in this thread? Or did you just skim them? Because there hasn't been a single post here supporting your idea, and many shooting it down completely.

You already can experiment with different weapon combos with the current system. There are tons of different weapons and weapon combos available, so just because you decide to stubbornly only use your primary for some reason doesn't mean everyone else did. I know personally when I was starting out, I used my Lato over my Braton until I got a new primary.

And have you played anywhere near high levels? In low levels, yeah, ammo is plentiful and you don't really have to worry about it, but in high levels and anything past wave 15 on defence with anything but the best coordination will leave you with ammo being a real concern.

[BenHoliday]

Ill repeat my issues with the current system again because clearly its gone over your heads:

Passive-aggressive attacks like saying these things are over our heads, when clearly we understand them but disagree, just makes your argument sound weaker. Arguments are best supported with ideas and/or facts, not insults. But just to be clear, I'll state why I think all of those are wrong.

 

Ammo is so abundant that it makes secondary and melee useless.

I agree that ammo is abundant, but that doesn't make different types of weapons useless, as stated many times before. For example, a Shotgun primary is ineffective at a range, and thus is best paired with a weapon that DOES work at range.

 

As for melee, I don't use it to conserve total ammo, but to conserve ammo in my magazine. As in, if I kill that sole Disruptor with melee I won't have to reload before killing more chargers.

 

Secondary and Melee weapons are not being encouraged to use.

You're right that they aren't doing anything to strongly encourage their use over primary weapons, but primary weapons do not strongly discourage their use, as everyone posting here has stated many times. But honestly, the system as you state it would discourage the use of many weapons because of your proposed slot requirements.

 

The current development process is focusing on distracting you with a new primary every content patch.

The current development process also "distracts" us with new secondaries, melee weapons, and warframes, so you're kinda missing the point here.

 

Due to the nature of the game-play revolving around only players using their primary weapon with an endless supply of ammo the focus of development will always revolve around this fact.

The nature of the game-play does not revolve around players only using their primary weapons, which is a fact you seem unwilling to accept.

 

The development process needs to focus more on a modular system in where a player can experiment with what weapons he wants to bring to a mission. This encourages experimentation with the development process when producing new weapons and provides a better experience to the player. The modular system would enable you to develop weapons with varying degrees of power without the need to balance all weapons on a case by case basis. This allows for developers to have the foresight so they are not reduced to being assembly line workers churning out new primary weapons from one update to the next.

No one here sees any need to focus on a modular system as opposed to the current system. This paragraph relies heavily on the previous statements being true in order to support this idea. But the previous statements are not universally true, so this is basically just you pitching your modular system without any real need for change.

 

If you want to pitch new ideas, that's fine. But you'll have better luck selling them if you state them as new ideas, rather than as necessary fixes that aren't necessary.