(XBOX)Lorewalker1022 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 @ MrGorealler - I concur. I got side tracked. That's my bad. Yes. The point of the topic in the first place. End the armistice. Bring back the rails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Allowing syndicate specters to be added would allow smaller alliances to better arm and defend their rails as well.I think this is a great idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 We would kick them to the curb like we did the Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheLastDax Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 I For one would gladly welcome them To hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrivateRiem Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Here is what an attack on a solar rail looked like before the Armistice. Rail is attacked. -4 alliance members join the attack. -1 Defending alliance member joins the defense. -Modifications to the dojo... -Infinite loading, players are forced to alt-F4 to leave the game. Keep the damn armistice, we've had enough of this abuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Here is what an attack on a solar rail looked like before the Armistice. Rail is attacked. -4 alliance members join the attack. -1 Defending alliance member joins the defense. -Modifications to the dojo... -Infinite loading, players are forced to alt-F4 to leave the game. Keep the damn armistice, we've had enough of this abuse. . We've all dealt with these problems too. They can be overcome with dedication and focus. It only takes 750 victories to destroy a solar rail. I've ran 60+ runs on some conflicts, with hard work and coordination you can beat the people holding the rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Xodus03 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 (edited) I think the real topic is bring back the rails everything else is taking away from that if you don't remember it above all then the whole thing is pointless. I really don't care about anything else just want to vote bring the rails back then after they do it would be cool to talk content. I just joined the conversation where it was and was thinking everyone wanted to say they want the rails back and what we would like to see in it but you guys are talking politics and all the other stuff. I want to talk bring the rails back only and all the other stuff can go I put in my hours on this game and I like it the way it is may have some things I would like to see and some that I don't but I will address them one at a time this thread says bring back solar rails so that's what the topic should be all other stuff put it else where I think that would help but I am just a random guy jumping in the middle so later I will start my own little section to discuss one topic at a time Sorry man, while it is not directly regarding the header, the topics being discussed are the reasons why people complained enough to have the Solar Rails removed in the first place. So while it is all just bickering and semantics right now, this is the nitty gritty of why we don't have the Rails anymore... But I do agree! Please bring back Solar Rails! You have no idea how cunning they are, you think we didn't fight them? I hope they all move to XB1 I do too... Send them please! I have had thoughts about moving to PC to show you guys how it's done lol... but that would be another 1000+ hours of WORK that I would have to put in and I don't think I really have it in me to do it on 2 different platforms to be honest lol. But I do know it is possible from doing it myself personally, and complaining about rules, guidelines, and the parameters that apply to EVERYONE in the game and saying that you "can't" compete is false. Rather what should be said is, no one has yet put the work in to be worthy of competing. Sorry if it sounds harsh, but that is the cold hard truth that everyone is beating around. Seriously, I can tell anyone what it takes to conquer not just a Rail, but multiple Rails (well... in the old system and if it returns in anyway similar) and if anyone wants advice I am more than willing to help you, but be prepared for real work... 100's to a 1000+ hours of it over a long period of time. If you aren't prepared for that, then you really aren't prepared for what wars used to be, and most likely will still return to be... a system in which hard work and planning pays off. Yeah yeah, what's the point though? One Clan or Alliance vs. the others - it still turns into back room deals, exploitation of mechanics and to be honest, the Dark Sector rewards really aren't worth the headache of dealing with PvP. PC has something like 9 Alliances all on nodes right now and you are telling me that they are all the super friends and have back door deals with each other...? ALL OF THEM? So ICE, V, Orion, Lords and Ladies of the East, Invictus, Synergy, Coup d etat, Original Goon Squad, and Shuruikan are all just 1 big Alliance? If so, then sure I can understand that in THAT situation maybe the community does have a harder fight ahead of them than we did, but I highly doubt all of those Alliances could manage to work together considering there aren't 9 nodes of equal value to share. Also, each of these 9 Alliances somehow managed to build up a group that managed to somehow conquer a node... amazing... they did the impossible! People want to complain about back door Politics and Alliances and how they aren't fair, but this is most likely because they can't get others to fall in line with their own ideas / plans... and without the proper support, yes, it is extremely difficult / nearly impossible to get your foot in the door. But blaming one of the most, if not the most, realistic War-representing factor... Politics... is a sad far reach, especially when it IS possible for anyone to play that same game. Politics are ALWAYS behind war, and you will never be able to eliminate them... and the strongest Alliances will no doubt have people who are gifted diplomats handling their politics. No dont. Let the greedy clans suffer in pain forever. muhahah. Seriously dont bring them back until you find a way to limit the clans silly taxes. I dont ever want to see Taxes. Taxes... a lot of ppl want to complain about taxes but it is easy to forget a few things about the Dark Sectors... 1. They have a BONUS in the form of Credits and Resources to begin with... a BONUS. While yes, a tax like 99% or anything above 50% makes the bonus obsolete... I will just revert back to the argument of if you guys don't like it, then knock them off the node, it is NOT impossible but don't complain if you don't want to put the work in to do it. I wouldn't be opposed to limiting the tax to at maximum, being able to tax 50% (even though ours never goes beyond 15% lol) so it could eat up the bonus resources, but not the actual node reward... that would be more than fair. 2. They were born to be taxed... I would assume for the point of sustaining war for those who were trying to compete. The Dark Sector section of this game is meant to be the competitive side of the game, and anything extra the public receives from playing it, is once again a bonus provided by the clan/alliance holding that dark sector in an attempt to sway public opinion either for or against them. Sure how about this, we get rid of all taxes on Dark sectors... but then we get rid of all the bonuses too and they can just be normal nodes like every other node? If you agree with this idea, THEN DON'T PLAY DARK SECTORS TO BEGIN WITH AND GO PLAY A NORMAL NODE... there's only something like 250 of those. lol 3. The clans that either hold them or vie to take them, have to pay absurd amounts of credits in the forms of Battle Pay to have any hope of being successful. Does anyone who has complained about taxes in general (not the absurd 50-99% taxes, the normal ones) know what it costs to run a war...? Even say at a battle pay of 50k..?.. which is what would be considered an acceptable but mediocre pay at best these days. At 50k, a successful War that doesn't have much resistance, will cost about 100 million credits and can cost into the 250+ million credit range if faced with the right circumstances. Let alone only one side wins, and usually both sides pay the cost. 100k is the new "enticing" number for Battle pay on Xbox, and at that number, you are looking at 200-500+ million credits for a war. Do me a favor and try to "farm" that kind of money lol... and if you got that sitting in your pocketbook on WF... then please stop complaining about any sort of anything that has to do with credits... you have more than enough already lol. 4. If you pay alot in taxes while attempting to credit farm and it bothers you... generally playing a single conflict during a Solar Rail War will net you back what you would lose in taxes times 5-10, and playing it for the duration of a war, will generally make you richer, faster, than you would be from playing a Dark sector node with a 0% tax on it... or any other instance in a game. There have been days where I had made about 4 million credits from running wars, and others who have made even more within our Alliance. ...Greedy people are just as bad as greedy Alliances imo. Alright I gonna say it no that it come to this, just for your information everytime ds conflict happen DDoS attack happen. You see how bad things are now? and also exploits are often used the most common are the host migration bullcrap strategy. You think people can just band together to fight jerks like this? (I literally copied and pasted this whole next section from a previous conversation on the exact same topic from almost a year ago lol) It is obvious that you never submitted a ticket complaining about this issues as I urged so many others to do ANYTIME there was even the most remote inkling of any sort of actual cheating, whether it was against us or not. Please if you are going to come to the forums to blindly throw accusations at people, especially when you aren't even going to give an example or evidence of the crime, take the time to get some insight from the people who actually make the game first. When those accusations were laid against us, I took the time to submit the ticket and here is the full ticket and response for you: (XB1)Xodus03January 19, 2015 22:05 I have heard rumors that during the next attack on a "The Order" Solar Rail on the XBox 1 Platform, they will be organizing Rail Tacticians to continuously change the Solar Rail Schema in an attempt to keep booting people off of the Solar Rails and manipulate the system to defend their Solar Rail. I am not even sure if this is an actual possibility, but if you guys feel that it is, would it be possible for someone to monitor the situation or be in contact with myself so I can report issues on some sort of a faster system since they may influence the outcome of the battle? Also if this truly is a possibility, something needs to be done about it asap, along with the problems for the players trying to defend their Solar Rails have with connecting to matches at all. Its been a long ongoing problem causing massive amounts of turmoil, assumptions, rumors and overall... much drama in the community that involves itself with Solar Rails. Thank you for your time. Xodus03 Xbox 1 Platform Lock n Load Clan Art of War Alliance (XB1)Xodus03January 20, 2015 14:25They are supposed to be using this glitch today on Zuegma - Phobos during the war. If you have some sort of way to monitor this through logs or even just sending a DE moderator to the war to sit on a Solar Rail and wait to see if you get the "Dojo Change Detected" message, it may help the situation. The problem with this exploit is only just starting to make its way over to Xbox 1 from PC so the faster that something like a fix or someone being made example of for cheating, the better to deter any more behavior like this. (XB1)Xodus03January 22, 2015 19:24Glitch never happened and I saw that you transferred control of The Arbiter's Solar Rails back to their possession. Thank you for that. [DE]MattJanuary 23, 2015 13:25Hi Xodus03,This problem was caused by bad information associated with the dark sector node and it was not something that could be exploited by player actions - all players involved with attacks on the damaged node would be experiencing this problem. The damage has been repaired and these problems should no longer occur in the future as a result. A fix will also deploy with the next update (the same as one which was already released for the PC) but as the damage has already been manually repaired you are unlikely to experience any further problems before then. If you have any other questions or concerns, please let us know. Can someone please find me an instance in which DE confirms and acknowledges any sort of exploit EVER used? Please? Now I know that these ...BUGS, not EXPLOITABLE GLITCHES... were an extreme hindrance to anyone attempting to get into the Solar Rails game and hadn't already been there, but it was also something that affected the ones holding the rails too. Along with the mentioned bug above, there have been bugs in which prevented Solar Rails from being defended properly... where you could see 50+ Squads attacking your Solar Rail but anytime someone tried to to defend it would say, "No opponents can be found". We lost rails because of that glitch, and failed to conquer rails due to other ones, but the difference between us and the reason we are successful and some weren't, was purely determination and hard work. Doing it over, trying it again, making mistakes and learning from them, studying / researching, reconquering, 12 hour night battles/defenses, 3 deployment Wars that took 36 total hours(early game), wars planned weeks in advance, back up plans for outcomes, and more... if you didn't do that... then you didn't do enough... so don't get mad at those who did and continue to do so just to ensure their time investments into this game are secure. Seriously though, if you weren't willing to put in 1000+ hours of WORK on a game for no real pay or physical reward, then I'm sorry if this offends you, but you weren't ready to compete in the extremely demanding world that was Solar Rail Conflicts. tl;dr: 1. Sorry, topics are reasons why Rails are gone 2. 9 Alliances on PC, more than enough people to conquer, don't complain about politics. War & Politics go hand in hand. 3. Taxes and what people neglect to understand about them. Greedy people just as bad as Greedy Alliances. 4. What people call "exploits", are actually just BUGS. Show me DE confirmed proof otherwise please. 5. If you aren't willing to put in 1000+ hours of hardcore keyboard work into an Alliance, you most likely will not succeed so don't complain about it unless you truly have and lost... and even then, to me that just means someone still out worked you. Edited November 22, 2015 by (XB1)Xodus03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helch0rn Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 yes bring the conflicts back. So I may infect every last enemy on the map with spores and miasma the living hell out of them. because everyone has fun in an unbalanced gamemode. especially the ones who are constantly dieing due to cheap tactics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Xodus03 Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 yes bring the conflicts back. So I may infect every last enemy on the map with spores and miasma the living hell out of them. because everyone has fun in an unbalanced gamemode. especially the ones who are constantly dieing due to cheap tactics Another common complaint... cheap in game PvP tactics. Here I will agree with you that yes, there are tactics that were extremely successful and hard to counter, but they weren't impossible. One of the main counter strategies for most of the main "cheaper" strategies was simply using the radiation element in some form... It would turn any "cheap" WF power into a weapon against BOTH teams. Mesa Peacemaker is probably the most common and hated tactic that was complained about... Simply radiating Mesa (from a safe distance) would turn her into a turret that would completely clear anyone in range, both your team and hers. I have seen a plethora of hard to fight strategies come and go but they do seem to change and will continue to as new Warframes keep getting released... unless you would prefer that they stop releasing new WF's altogether? WF mechanics run deep and are part of what makes the game so diverse and fun, but keeping the Rails balanced is as easy as, like they do in PvP 2.0 now, restricting some frames from entering until they are balanced by DE... But if you have any tactics that you found impossible to fight against, put them up here or start a new thread and send me a link to it via msg and I can give you counter strategies to most tactics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)G R A V O C Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Not two rails, just two mission options - like you choose between Nightmare mode and regular gameplay on a planet mission. I'm personally not a fan of this. The whole point of solar rails is **player conflict**. Why are we removing the player conflict from player conflict? Solar rails is content that originally (and rightfully should still be so) content that is for more hardcore gamers, vets, and competitive players. The ENTIRE game is soft core, so why are we taking the ONLY hardcore content, and catering it to the soft core community? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 21, 2015 Share Posted November 21, 2015 Xodus is right. There is always a counter to even the most well thought out strategies. Instead of taking things at face value and saying this is impossible, use your brain and come up with a strategy that you think will work well against it. If it doesn't work don't give up, try something else. Rails added an element of strategy and tactics not found in normal PVE Gameplay because we can one-shot pretty much anything we face (except escalating T4's). Rails are complex and deep and tactics and solutions are going to be similar complex. Stop looking for the easy answer and start finding solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragasu Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Can someone please find me an instance in which DE confirms and acknowledges any sort of exploit EVER used? Please? https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/275479-late-saturdaysunday-login-issues/?p=3174676#entry3174676 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215376-4152014-connectivity-issues/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/284094-whats-up-with-ddos-attacks/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386220-dark-sector-conflict-reporting-bug-exploit-abused-by-certain-alliances-change-to-dojo-detected/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287803-dark-sector-conflict-turret-exploits/ So it is a bug that can't be exploited right? Edited November 22, 2015 by paragasu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Another thing about rails is that the fights were memorable. I can remember most of my 1v1s on rails in great detail but I can't even remember the score of my last conclave match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 @paragasu what exactly are you trying to prove with those posts? It seems to me to be a few exceptions to the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Xodus03 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/275479-late-saturdaysunday-login-issues/?p=3174676#entry3174676 https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/215376-4152014-connectivity-issues/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/284094-whats-up-with-ddos-attacks/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/386220-dark-sector-conflict-reporting-bug-exploit-abused-by-certain-alliances-change-to-dojo-detected/ https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/287803-dark-sector-conflict-turret-exploits/ So it is a bug that can't be exploited right? Alright, I stand corrected about there being nothing exploitable... When we get DDOS'd on Xbox, the whole console goes to crap lol so we don't relate it directly to WF. And even though the DDOS attacks on PC servers I would surely call an exploit... but that is also a method in which nearly every single online PC game in the world is subject to, majority of which are based around or have some sort of competitive multiplayer aspect. With that in mind, it would be the equivalent of shutting down PvP on something like WoW or Guild Wars because the entire game got DDOS'd. That just simply wouldn't happen. As far as schema glitches, the multiple turrets is a bug that I am sure they fixed LONG before the armistice was ever put in place seeing as that it was made and archived in August of 2014... plus it never made it to Xbox and I had never heard much noise about it. The Dojo Change BUG is one that I confirmed myself through DE and posted the ticket and response for you... so that is not an exploit and is irrelevant.... besides it was also fixed and no longer occurred anymore shortly after I submitted that ticket. Don't know and highly doubt that my ticket was the sole reason it was fixed... but hey if you got a problem, why not direct it at the people who may possibly just have the ONLY tools to find a solution before blindly taking it out on the community who may or may not even be responsible? Basically, as I said before in a few different posts... the only things that needed to be fixed were connectivity issues (dedicated servers PLEASE DE.. for dojos too lol), some minor bugs, and Warframe balancing... which some may argue IS the reason why Rails are gone but they are actively balancing PvP 2.0 (and they used to fix extreme Solar Rail problems in the same way) so I don't see a reason why they couldn't do the same thing with Solar Rails. Everything else that is being complained about isn't something that needs fixing, but is a personal opinion of something that is not enjoyed or appreciated by specific groups or individuals. Edited November 22, 2015 by (XB1)Xodus03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paragasu Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 @paragasu what exactly are you trying to prove with those posts? It seems to me to be a few exceptions to the rule. 1. We should not have DS back untill we have dedicated server and untill De figure out all the known issues in the last DS 2. The possibility of game exploit exist and it is most prevelent in Pc. 3. Pc people can't band together to fight evil clan/alliance because of their traumatic experiance, which is due to the exploit, bugs, hacking and etc. This may not being done by the said clan/alliance but such bad experiance have leave such a horrific mark on people impression that eventhou they want to oppose the said clan/alliance they can't bare to do so, because they have this gut feeling that they will have those bad experience again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I understand where you are coming from paragasu but the last point, its like you're making ex-railers on PC seem like they have PTSD or something. Obviously when rail conflicts come back DE is going to have these bugs and exploits fixed. Even if there are new ones at launch they would be found out and patched quickly. The fact that bugs exist should not be reason for rails to not come back or be taken away. Those bugs should be fixed. If the PVP is based off the system we have now its going to be balanced and will continue to get balanced. Disregarding bugs and exploits that the very few use, there is plenty that people can do to fight against large alliances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Soul Drained Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Bring back rails while y'all work on rails... Taking them away for a year makes no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Agreed Soul Drained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truth Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Most likely not gonna happen until PVP gets some more work done on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubbi Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Unless it gets drastically improvemt I say no thank you. I do not want to see cheating alliences dominate all sectors and see a 75-100% taxes. I also disliked the conflicts and that they are pvp. Edited November 22, 2015 by kubbi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Xodus03 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 (edited) Unless it gets drastically improvemt I say no thank you. I do not want to see cheating alliences dominate all sectors and see a 75-100% taxes. I also disliked the conflicts and that they are pvp. A drastic improvement is what basically everyone is asking for and wanting, except they would like to see Rails come back and be fixed actively instead of them being out of commission. Honestly I doubt it is extremely difficult to put a tax cap (which everyone except maybe 1 or 2 Alliances unanimously agree upon) and even begin the effort to balance by limiting the Frames and Gear that can be brought into the matches... As far as cheaters, they were discussed earlier and short of DDOS'ers (which affect the WHOLE game, not just Solar Rails, and can be found on pretty much every single online PC game), the rest of the exploitable bugs have either been worked on or fixed... and that all happened while Solar Rails were still active. People just expected DE to be able to snap their fingers and fix everything instantly, or maybe just do the fighting against the "cheaters" for you and just remove them from the nodes...? As far as not enjoying the PvP, then it is just a section of the game that you are not forced to play but to take PvP away from Rails would literally remove the whole point of them being in existence... they are a Clan competitive PvP function. Edited November 22, 2015 by (XB1)Xodus03 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagPrime Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I'm personally not a fan of this. The whole point of solar rails is **player conflict**. Why are we removing the player conflict from player conflict? Solar rails is content that originally (and rightfully should still be so) content that is for more hardcore gamers, vets, and competitive players. The ENTIRE game is soft core, so why are we taking the ONLY hardcore content, and catering it to the soft core community? Provide links to when DE stated that the Rails were for hardcore or veterans only. After that, please take the time to explain how having a totally separate PvE option is potentially harming your PvP options. No, really. How is having a secondary PvE mission, that is not required and helps get more players involved, harmING your PvP experience. When the rails were put in, the only player conflict they had was pitting alliance/clan against other allliances/clans - there was no PvP. Try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Papa Requiem Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Adding in some PVE elements to rails could be interesting if it were done correctly. The thing I think people are worried about is if PVE elements are introduced to rails it will make PVP obsolete. However, if PVE runs contributed less to the damage on the rails and offered sort of an introductory course to rails I feel it could work. But the whole point of rails is PVP. You're supposed to be fighting your fellow Tenno in Gameplay that is much more challenging, tactical and strategic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)The Repo Man151 Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Adding in some PVE elements to rails could be interesting if it were done correctly. The thing I think people are worried about is if PVE elements are introduced to rails it will make PVP obsolete. However, if PVE runs contributed less to the damage on the rails and offered sort of an introductory course to rails I feel it could work. But the whole point of rails is PVP. You're supposed to be fighting your fellow Tenno in Gameplay that is much more challenging, tactical and strategic.There was already PvE in rails. Crewmen and Lancers would fight you in the rail. Specters could also fight you on the rail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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