(XB1)The Repo Man151

So you would consider something like speedrunning as PvP?

Hitting the nail on the head here. Some of us will stick around forever though waiting on our endgame.

They have. I linked a timestamp of one a little bit earlier in the thread.

That's far too easy. Any person can just run Ivara or any other stealth frame (or even an operator) to hack the vaults with minimal difficulty. That isn't PvP. Yeah an interception or area control game mode would be cool in Conclave. The grineer wouldn't make things hard though.

Well, the Solar Rail Conflicts had built in gear limitation in them (at least the PvEvP incarnation). You couldn't use aura mods, pads of any kind, sentinels/companions, some mods, arcane helmets had no effect etc. Wouldn't be too hard of a stretch to prevent the usage of operators.

The Solar Rail Conflicts would not require a massive overhaul of the game, which is what this thread is about.

Have you played Warframe? No mob is powerful. Not anymore. They even removed infinite scaling to make mobs at higher levels easier to kill.

Can we drop this discussion about the chart? None of us know the methodology behind the chart. We don't know how DE got those numbers. So, as far as we know, the numbers could just be made up. The chart is also extremely outdated no matter how you look at it, as it is from 2016.

This is actually a really relevant question. And to give you an honest answer, I am not sure. The advantages of that incarnation of Solar Rail Conflicts was that both sides were able to do damage to each other's Solar Rail. The win condition for those conflicts was to have the highest integrity remaining at the end of the battle. That was fine. It worked well. Alliances/Clans that owned nodes had to stay on there toes for every single battle because even a Conflict that ends in 98% integrity for the defender and 99% integrity for the attacker led to the offensive side winning. This made "Block Rails" much more risky and overall forced Alliances/Clans to actually defend their territory every single time they were deployed on. However, when the system was changed to PvEvP, they changed the mechanics of the Conflict itself. Now the new win condition was for defense to have >0% integrity left at the end of the battle. The offensive side only won if they fully destroyed the opposing Rail. This made "Block Rails" significantly more effective. Not only were they cheaply produced, but they effectively defended your node for 72 hours from any attack. Now, was the change in mechanics in direct correlation with the change from strictly PvE to PvEvP? Yes. But was the change in mechanics CAUSED by that change? No. If the Dark Sector Conflicts had kept the previous win conditions AND implemented the PvEvP the same way, I am of the opinion that the Dark Sector Conflicts would be remembered much more fondly than they are.

So, let me get this straight. Your only problem with PvP in Warframe is that it doesn't have dedicated servers?

No. Discounting Alliances is wrong. There's no way individual clan to clan balance could ever work due to how massive the differences in some clans are. I've seen moon clans with only 40 tenno in them. Should that same clan participate on the same level as a moon clan with 1000 players? I don't think so. Segmenting it by clan tiers leads to much abuse of the system in practice. One of the good things about the old system was that anyone could fight anyone. Mountain Clans could fight Alliances, Ghost Clans could fight Moon Clans and so on. While it usually led to the Alliance side winning, sometimes the underdogs did win. I know, because I've lost Alliance Rails to singular Moon Clans. Segmenting it by Clan Tiers sounds great on paper but it just doesn't work once you consider the mechanics of it and how different Clans in the same tier can be. If you're interested in Dark Sector PvP, I'd love to explain the mechanics of the old system to you. It's very fascinating. An exceptionally verbose person such as yourself would probably have a lot of unique feedback about it.

Exactly! The mode has so much potential and its really a shame DE has passed it up for so long.

He does, just not about Warframe.

I agree. It's pretty weird to me. Alliances solely existed for Dark Sector Conflicts, they serve no other function in the game. It would be fantastic if DE gave us something to work towards.

We don't care if it comes back as PvP or PvE. Either way, we just want meaning for Clans and Alliances. This isn't the case at all. We want the territory control aspects of the Dark Sector Conflicts back in the game because we feel it gave Clans/Alliances meaning and provided an actual endgame for Warframe. It involved all aspects of the game and made Warframe feel more alive. You weren't around for them so you wouldn't know that. If they came back as strictly PvE it would be so far in our favor you couldn't possibly imagine the ramifications. PvP at least gave people the opportunity to win. Where do I begin with this one? Taxes were only on those nodes because of the massive bonuses those nodes had. Often times they'd drop 20-30% increased resources on those nodes. A tax of 10% often times was minimal and the tenno that played on the nodes were making more money even with the taxes than they were playing on other nodes, pound for pound. Secondly, they could always play on other nodes. Those nodes dropped the same resources as the Dark Sectors. In fact, some of those nodes were even better for experience than the dark sectors. Like Viver or Draco. Thirdly, the players who didn't participate could always try and lower the taxes through diplomacy or convince others to fight for them. Fourthly, there were about 230 nodes in the game back in the day. 26 of those were Dark Sectors. 26 is just over 11% of the total nodes in the game at that time. Those 11% percent of nodes were completely avoidable. You never had to do a single mission on a dark sector (Conflict or normal play) if you didn't want to. And if the player did want to do it for the mastery he would get for clearing it, he would only have to play the node a single time. Dark Sector Conflicts were 4v4 battles. Back in the day there were really only two things to be accomplished about in Warframe. The first was owning a Primed Chamber. Now everyone has one. The second was owning a node. Now nobody has one. There is nothing left in Warframe to feel proud of. No sense of accomplishment. Just monotony. The Dark Sectors breathed life into the game in such a way that if you weren't there for them, you would never understand. I'm fine with Dark Sectors coming back as PvE or PvP (and if I can be candid with you for a moment, the Dark Sector Conflicts were PvEvP and not purely PvP as many like to claim. In fact, they were entirely PvE at one point.) If they came back as PvE the same players would dominate the system far worse than they originally did. PvE is much more palatable over a long term session than PvP. As an avid Dark Sector Player, even I couldn't do more than one conflict back to back because fighting other players for that long is tiring. But I could most definitely semi-afk my way through it for days on end if it was solely PvE. Heck, I could probably sleep and conquer nodes if it was PvE.