Feedback Megathread: Saryn Revisited.

[AkikoShikata]

I actually made some of my own suggestions like making miasma staggers per tick with doubled duration, molt snow globe treatment and "overheat" toxic lash

Oops, sorry, too many pages to go thru so I probably missed yours.

[RealPandemonium]

Nice idea but concealed explosions can not proc.

I was just using corrosive since we had no CP.

Toxic damage comes from Molt which is 400 per instance.

I did use miasma as well if my Molt is there so everyone has viral and toxic status.

CE does pop spores, though, which is the same as proccing since once you Toxin+Spore one enemy you can spread it to everyone by popping the spores.

Edited November 11, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Machayna]

 

Miasma is an issue because outright damage abilities never scale particularly well. This was why pre-rework Mesa wasn't a requirement in endless voids past a certain wave count. While the interactions with viral and toxin procs is definitely a boost to her kit, when going into really late game it becomes obsolete. The only reason Miasma even does anything is because of Spore's damage boost and viral proc, resulting in half health enemies taking up to 4x damage. While certainly, not all abilities should scale into late game super well, the 4th skill is usually supposed to be the strongest ability of the kit that can help in the endgame, and Spore far outperforms Miasma in that aspect. As such, perhaps Miasma should be changed into, instead of simply being an arbitrary number based nuke, a percentage health based DOT, perhaps?

Yeah I've noticed significant dropoff at 30+ minutes in T3S.  Getting closer to 40 minutes it started to get really tricky to take anything down and you end up burning through a ton of energy just to kill something and stay alive due to what I'm thinking is armor scaling.  So really armor scaling is what's killing her new kit.  I love her new playstyle but something needs to change to help her scale.  Maybe an augment that strips armor in some way or have miasma do some sort of corrosive debuff.  Not sure.

[RealPandemonium]

Getting closer to 40 minutes it started to get really tricky to take anything down and you end up burning through a ton of energy just to kill something and stay alive due to what I'm thinking is armor scaling.  So really armor scaling is what's killing her new kit.

Armor scaling kills EVERYTHING's damage, not just Saryn's.  Miasma also happens to be one of the armor-ignoring damage types (ignores 75% of Ferrite armor and also has a separate 75% damage boost against it) and it STILL gets neutered by high level Heavy Gunners.  DE needs to remove armor scaling with level or make it increase much less dramatically so that Grineer have similar or somewhat higher durability compared to Infested and Corpus, instead of being many times as durable even in the best cases once you go past level 40.  

 

Because people don't understand how armor works, they keep asking for bandaids to the problem instead of telling DE to finally fix it.  

Edited November 11, 2015 by RealPandemonium

[Machayna]

Armor scaling kills EVERYTHING's damage, not just Saryn's.  Miasma also happens to be one of the armor-ignoring damage types (ignores 75% of Ferrite armor and also has a separate 75% damage boost against it) and it STILL gets neutered by high level Heavy Gunners.  DE needs to remove armor scaling with level or make it increase much less dramatically so that Grineer have similar or somewhat higher durability compared to Infested and Corpus, instead of being many times as durable even in the best cases once you go past level 40.  

 

Because people don't understand how armor works, they keep asking for bandaids to the problem instead of telling DE to finally fix it.  

Didn't know all that.  That definitely makes sense.  

[DelialFallen]

Yeah I've noticed significant dropoff at 30+ minutes in T3S.  Getting closer to 40 minutes it started to get really tricky to take anything down and you end up burning through a ton of energy just to kill something and stay alive due to what I'm thinking is armor scaling.  So really armor scaling is what's killing her new kit.  I love her new playstyle but something needs to change to help her scale.  Maybe an augment that strips armor in some way or have miasma do some sort of corrosive debuff.  Not sure.

 

It seems our mileage is not the same at all.  In my T4 Surv runs, the main issue never is taking down enemies so much as it is surviving the damage I'm being dealt.  I find Saryn's damage to be more than adequate in both ranged attacks (provided you use a primary or a secondary that facilitates spread Spore and adds a Toxin component) and melee. In melee-centric runs I've done so far, I admit energy is a bit hard to come by.  The energy return from Toxic Lash on Spores seems to work best in the Simulacrum and isn't really effective enough in practice to synergize at a level where I find it convenient to rely upon.

 

I reiterate my opinion that all Saryn needs to be amazing is more durability either by reverting her health to a base of 250 and/or increasing her armor by 100.  I also believe Molt needs some added durability as well that it can be useful at all levels of play.

 

I'm not convinced Miasma proccing Corrosive would prove to be especially beneficial in comparison, but the idea has merit.

[Machayna]

It seems our mileage is not the same at all.  In my T4 Surv runs, the main issue never is taking down enemies so much as it is surviving the damage I'm being dealt.  I find Saryn's damage to be more than adequate in both ranged attacks (provided you use a primary or a secondary that facilitates spread Spore and adds a Toxin component) and melee. In melee-centric runs I've done so far, I admit energy is a bit hard to come by.  The energy return from Toxic Lash on Spores seems to work best in the Simulacrum and isn't really effective enough in practice to synergize at a level where I find it convenient to rely upon.

 

I reiterate my opinion that all Saryn needs to be amazing is more durability either by reverting her health to a base of 250 and/or increasing her armor by 100.  I also believe Molt needs some added durability as well that it can be useful at all levels of play.

 

I'm not convinced Miasma proccing Corrosive would prove to be especially beneficial in comparison, but the idea has merit.

Don't suppose you could post a build?  It sounds like I might be missing something essential.  For stats I have 118/170/145/100.  I don't have any primed mods so this is just regular and corrupted.  I'm using an orthos prime built for corrosive and heat and I keep toxic lash up constantly along with spores.  All mods maxed except life strike which is unranked.  Guns I'm typically using a sonicor (can't remember what elements offhand but all mods maxed) and a torrid.  I've tried the torrid a few ways now.  Radiation + toxin, straight toxin, and corrosive heat (basically ignoring toxin and just working with the viral from the spores).  Again all mods are max ranked. So at the 35 minute mark or around there I would cast spores on a heavy gunner and run up and hit it with toxic lash and then miasma and then sit there and try to melee kill it.  The health barely moves and in the meantime you get other enemies coming at you.  So then I bullet jump away. Pop a molt, spore it up, hit miasma again and go up and keep up the melee.  usually the second or third rotation of this I can drop a heavy gunner at that level.  Again though this is only when it hits around 35 minutes and it's possible that bug with toxic lash was active at the time where it would only work once.  They fixed that in 17.10.4.  Anyway I'd love to hear what you're running for stats and weapons etc because it just seems a bit painful to take stuff out at that level.

[DelialFallen]

Don't suppose you could post a build?  It sounds like I might be missing something essential.  For stats I have 118/170/145/100.  I don't have any primed mods so this is just regular and corrupted.  

 

-snip-

 

 Anyway I'd love to hear what you're running for stats and weapons etc because it just seems a bit painful to take stuff out at that level.

 

My Survival build is, well, built for Survival really.  Regeneration Aura, Quick Thinking, Rage, Vitality, Primed Continuity, Primed Flow.  The other three mod slots change depending on whether I feel gutsy enough to just Life Strike to regain health.  If so, then I'll go with Constitution, Stretch and Streamline.  If not, then the mods will be Stretch, Fleeting Expertise and Regenerative Molt.

 

My melee build is different in that it switches out Stretch for Transient Fortitude, forgoes any efficiency mods, and uses Constitution and Regenerative Molt (or Contagion Cloud if I feel particularly bold).

 

Primary is an Ignis modded for Radiation and Toxin, sometimes with Sinister Reach, sometimes with Combustion Beam, secondary is... Whatever looks good with Saryn.  It's often a Telos Akbolto or Hikou Prime, modded for Radiation and Viral if Akbolto, Radiation and Toxin if Hikou (with Concealed Explosives).

 

Melee weapon is either a Dark Dagger modded for Corrosive, Radiation, Cold and Life Strike, or the Dual Zoren modded similarly but with Berzerker in mind.

 

If you wish, you can look up my attempts on my YouTube channel.  I use the same name there as I do here.

 

If not in a solo Survival, then I mod for Range, Efficiency, Duration and Power Strength in that order, switching it up as I test out different things, and use an Energy Siphon or Corrosive Projection depending on team composition.

[Machayna]

If you wish, you can look up my attempts on my YouTube channel.  I use the same name there as I do here.

Actually I should have recognized your name right away.  I had already seen the T4S vid you posted and at the time that I watched it noted you were having the same difficulties I was.  So maybe the extra casts are normal at that level.  A good example is at around 36:52.  Spread spores, hide around corner while using weapon, miasma, spread more spores, miasma, and then run up and melee it to death which takes a few swings.  It's about the same as what I was doing only I was doing melee only.  Must be just a perception thing.  I also noticed you were popping pizzas like crazy to maintain the damage output as you got further in.  I thought it was a good vid that showed the same issues that I was having.  So maybe that's normal.  You gave me some ideas though that I'm going to try.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Wish I had those primed mods though.  =O

[taiiat]

by the by - AoE shouldn't burst Spores.

alternatively, like Toxic Lash, each AoE instance on an Enemy Bursts one Spore.

 

i prefer not bursting at all however.

 

Than also mention your %effi please.

i only use Streamline. so 30% Efficiency.

 

people keep asking for bandaids to the problem instead of telling DE to finally fix it.  

not everyone is asking for bandaids. some around here recognize how poorly Armor works.

(and tbh how poorly the concept of 'Armor' generally works in 99% of games)

as it stands, Enemies in Warframe almost never step up their game.

they stay the same for by far most of their existence in the game. 

this ends up meaning that a Lv20 Enemy is identical to a Lv60 or a Lv200 one. it cheeses the Player harder with more Damage, and it soaks up more bullets, but it's still exactly the same Enemy.

 

this ends up making for later Missions in the game stagnating. they lose the features that are there early on, and try to compensate for it with artificial stats.

between Lv1-15 Enemies, most of the Enemies in the game hit their Minimum Spawn Level, and start confronting Players. this means that as Players stick around in Endless Missions or move through higher Level Missions, the Enemies actually change their tactics and bring new Units to the field.

this is real Difficulty. adding something completely new to the mix, that will confront the Tenno in a different manner, needing to be dealt with in different way(s).

but this ends somewhere around Lv15-20, all of the Enemies in the game are already present.

 

there are Eximus Units, which fill part of that gap, Enemies that function a bit different from another of the same Enemy. these start out changing things up, but eventually become almost as common as the next guy. still, a few new introductions that can help pad the Enemies.

 

still, then, there is a general lack of Difficulty increase past a fairly Low Level. Enemies that eat more bullets or cheese you faster do not increase the difficulty. they do not challenge the Player in new ways, forcing them to handle more at once. they only force the Player to cheese them back.

 

 

this can be addressed, in multiple ways, all of which i recommend. but i'll focus on one that's explored far less often in the Games Industry.

Variants and / or Sub Types.

 

Warframe has the start of this. we have two types of Lancer. we have two types of Crewman. the rest of the Unit Variants though, are changes per Tileset, rather than actually increasing the Diversity in any one Mission.

but this can go much, much further.

 

and Varients / Sub Types doesn't mean Lancer to Elite Lancer either. that makes it appear like Enemies are changing(which is nice), but it takes one Enemy and replaces it with another, rather than broadening the problems the Player is faced in Combat.

 

- - - - - - - - - - 

 

i'll briefly make an example, and then explain where this can be applied to Warframe.

in Dungeon Defenders II, Enemies have Variants and such. this means Enemies as you progress later into the game, will have a wider assortment of Equipment. changing their Weapons, putting on or changing Armor, Et Cetera. this allows Enemies to continue increasing the problem solving the Player is required to do in a Combat scenario. this increases Difficulty. having to deal with more things at once makes it more difficult to manage all of them. you aren't hiding behind a corner shooting all of the samey Enemies in the Head until the game says there aren't any more, instead you're being stretched in several directions at once.

 

what does that mean for Warframe? we can take the basic premise of that, and go further.

Enemies can have choices between Weapons, rather than each Mook having the same Weapon that is easily dealt with in the same way, having drastically different Weapons.

• so rather than just changing a Grakata to a Hind, including several Weapons in that group, having a Grakata once in a while, a Hind most of the time, but also including some other Weapons such as a Karak (which i assume in the hands of the Enemies functions like a higher Damage but lower RoF Grakata), even a Braton could go there, as they are a general purpose mass produced Weapon sold by the Corpus(which the Grineer could have most possibly purchased or stolen at some point).

• Enemies in certain areas can have higher Chances for the Weapon that originally fits that area.

   

• and rather than a Shotgun Trooper always having the same Weapon (i think, i don't recall them using Strun anymore i don't think, i'll check later), it could range anywhere from the current Sobek to Hek, Kohm, Drakgoon, and Strun if them using Strun is considered acceptable.

• some Enemies will need to wait around though, for a coincidental lack of suitable Weapons for them. such as the Grineer Scorch only has one acceptable Weapon. perhaps to flush out the Weapon choices there will be a Flame Thrower to go along with Ignis as a Gas Thrower. a Flame Thrower to immolate small groups of Enemies and lay Fire Traps. Weapon Variety can only go up as new Weapons are added for Players! allows you to increase Enemy Variety while also increasing Variety of Weapons available to Players. two birds with one stone.

• Enemies can have additional Defensive protection. this can protect them from this or that, but not everything at once. such as 'Dynamic Destructible Armor' is one type of method for this. rather than just having Damage Reduction on the Health Bar, having actual physical Armor that protects against all Damage until a certain point, and then breaks, exposing the unprotected area underneath. Corpus Crewman Helmets do this, reducing incoming Damage by a very, very high Percentage until it hits a % of the Health Bar threshold, where it breaks. Enemies in general can apply this sort of system. extra piece of Armor or Et Cetera that are applied to an Arm, Upper Leg, Lower Leg, the Upper Torso, Lower Torso, Upper Back, Lower Back, Front of the Head, Back of the Head, Et Cetera. 

 

and not necessarily just one piece of Armor. a variable amount of them depending on Level. (yes, choosing which Destructible Armor to have randomly, so that each Enemy is protected in a different area, making cutting across a crowed at a certain height (like spraying at neck height) much less effective)

• other options, could include Directional Shields, protecting against either incoming Fire (and when taking enough Damage in a moderate time window, overloading and stunning the Enemy) or Abilities (so an Ability coming from the direction of the Shield would be blocked, but from another direction would not - perhaps a better method to apply the Nullifier, facing towards the Players and blocking Abilities from passing, but being vulnerable from behind). even Special Abilities, such as hastened reflexes, allowing them to use their Weapon or something else to block some of the incoming Bullets or Melee Weapons, Et Cetera. or things as simple as significantly increased speed(and takes Cover much less often) with moderately decreased Survivability, or the inverse, and significantly slower speed with significantly increased Survivability.

 

- - - - - - - - - - 

 

this doesn't mean Enemy Scaling as it stands currently should disappear. having some basic increases per Level is fine. but if Enemies have methods of defending themselves and upping the ante against the Tenno, focusing so heavily on say, increasing Damage Reduction from Armor is far less important. still having some of it, but the Enemy can afford to have much less, as it has other ways to protect itself.

 

- - - - - - - - - - 

 

just as importantly, these extra additions to Enemies, can be spread out along Enemy Levels. as Enemies go up in Levels, they'll have more and more of these optional bonuses, and more and more Weapons will be available to them.

what does this add up to? yes, it does add up to similar to the equivalent to adding new Enemy Types. which is good to do as well. however, Variants / Sub Types allows to increase Variety without needing to wait for all of the Resources to make a completely new Enemy every time.

 

as, remember, those first two dozen Enemy Levels, are currently the most dynamic and increase Difficulty the most, whereas after, it flattens out, with much less Difficulty increase, relying only on introducing more and more Eximus Units to increase Difficulty.

 

if the entire Range from Level 1 to Level 40-45 can have many steps along the way where the Enemies introduce more Difficulty, challenge the Player in more ways - Warframe can continue the early trend of Difficulty increases, and create Missions that are legitimately Difficult. and Difficult not in the sense of "are you mashing your CC buttons fast enough", but instead, Difficult because the Player has such a wide variety of Enemies to deal with, some of which are resistant to one type of attack, some resistant to others, Et Cetera. this "broadening of horizons" requires the Player to handle the situation in a more and more complex manner. 

 

therefore, Difficulty is achieved not by punching Players in the face if they aren't putting everything in Stasis, but instead for not Prioritizing Targets well and only handling some of the Enemies, while the others were free to continue retaliating.

then, Difficulty isn't found in just closing time gaps for margin of error, requiring closer and closer to 100% up time on all Stasis methods, but it is found in the Enemies themselves.

 

[DelialFallen]

Actually I should have recognized your name right away.  I had already seen the T4S vid you posted and at the time that I watched it noted you were having the same difficulties I was.  So maybe the extra casts are normal at that level.  A good example is at around 36:52.  Spread spores, hide around corner while using weapon, miasma, spread more spores, miasma, and then run up and melee it to death which takes a few swings.  It's about the same as what I was doing only I was doing melee only.  Must be just a perception thing.  I also noticed you were popping pizzas like crazy to maintain the damage output as you got further in.  I thought it was a good vid that showed the same issues that I was having.  So maybe that's normal.  You gave me some ideas though that I'm going to try.  Thanks for taking the time to respond.  Wish I had those primed mods though.  =O

 

At around that mark in T4, I find Saryn's survivability to be inadequate in the current iteration.  In T3, you shouldn't be running into likewise problems before the 45 minute mark or so.  If you are having issues at 35-ish minutes in T3, then there might be some way to better optimize your loadout.

 

As she presently is, Saryn is a mite too squishy in comparison to many other frames.  Some deal with the difficulty with control, others with resilience, and others still with misdirection.  The issues could be resolved by implementing changes that would allow her to fulfill her role as a melee caster hybrid.

 

Edit: Also, good luck and keep at it Tenno!

Edited November 11, 2015 by DelialFallen

[VoidNomade]

i only use Streamline. so 30% Efficiency.

 

You must be a magician than^^ I can´t self sustain my energy pool just with spores and contagion with 45% effi.^^

[czdj117]

I'll say it quickly and concisely Saryn lv 50+ is unplayable

[Machayna]

At around that mark in T4, I find Saryn's survivability to be inadequate in the current iteration.  In T3, you shouldn't be running into likewise problems before the 45 minute mark or so.  If you are having issues at 35-ish minutes in T3, then there might be some way to better optimize your loadout.

 

Edit: Also, good luck and keep at it Tenno!

Thanks man.  I'm going to try a couple tweaks just to see but as to the difference between T3 and T4 that I'm aware of the health, armor scaling, and enemy levels are identical.  The only difference is in the damage they do to you where T4 I believe I saw enemies deal 3x more damage.  Again though this is just what I read.  So in essence it will take me the same amount of casts/bullets/melee to take out a level X heavy gunner in both.  Again this is just what I've read.  So survivability wise yeah I should have a way easier time in T3 taking a hit than i do in T4.  However, if this info is correct, it doesn't make a difference if I'm in T3 or T4 when talking about how much damage an enemy can take before they go down as it's the same health, armor, and level scaling.  Which is what I'm talking about.  Maybe someone could confirm that.  I subscribed to your channel.  you've been really great answering questions and such.  I look forward to your future vids and I plan on checking out that melee only 

mostly" vid you posted.

[TheBrsrkr]

I'll say it quickly and concisely Saryn lv 50+ is unplayable

Such feedback

[JinxedEye]

I enjoy the rework. Tested her in a quick 20 min sedan dark sector, and carries a team. The only issue was energy drain accents, but using her molt, spore, lash combo could clean up pretty efficiently. I do plan to go back, and test with a better prepared team. We messed up the team, and took 2 ev, one Saryn, and one mag... I wanna test a team of 2 Saryn, one ember and one ev. One Saryn Modded for spors, other for miasma ult. Ideally, we should be able to stay for quite some time, but we'll see.

[DelialFallen]

Thanks man.  I'm going to try a couple tweaks just to see but as to the difference between T3 and T4 that I'm aware of the health, armor scaling, and enemy levels are identical.  The only difference is in the damage they do to you where T4 I believe I saw enemies deal 3x more damage.  Again though this is just what I read.  So in essence it will take me the same amount of casts/bullets/melee to take out a level X heavy gunner in both.  Again this is just what I've read.  So survivability wise yeah I should have a way easier time in T3 taking a hit than i do in T4.  However, if this info is correct, it doesn't make a difference if I'm in T3 or T4 when talking about how much damage an enemy can take before they go down as it's the same health, armor, and level scaling.  Which is what I'm talking about.  Maybe someone could confirm that.  I subscribed to your channel.  you've been really great answering questions and such.  I look forward to your future vids and I plan on checking out that melee only 

mostly" vid you posted.

 

You are correct in stating that the main difference between T3 and T4 is the damage enemies deal.  As you will no doubt discover in your explorations, that difference is very significant and requires a rethinking of approaches and strategies when attempting to solo.  Also keep in mind that much better players than I would surmount the hurdles I encountered with brio.

 

Hopefully, it will all contribute to help ironing out the kinks in Saryn's current revision.

[Lokime]

Ok... I've played with saryn these last days. She's fine, playable, except for one small yet annoying detail, energy consumption.

 

I can understand that you did your best to make her a more active warframe, and you did, synergy feels good, but what it's bugging me it's the energy cost, what's the point of having a great synergy between abilities, if you can't stack enough energy to use them all? 

 

Please, if someone from DE reads this, consider LOWERING the energy cost for all 4 abilities, so we players can play with her without worrying that much for energy.

 

Here's the values i consider well balanced for her abilities

 

spores - 25 is fine, with the last buff.

molt - it should cost 35 energy. 

toxic lash - the energy of this one's fine, but why it is not toggleable? like valkyr's and excalibur's ult? 

Miasma - 75 energy should be ok, I always can't use this one because I have already used all my energy on the other 3 skills...

[taiiat]

You must be a magician than

try playing Solo, and see if you still feel the same way.

 

i'm getting more and more certain that this Energy Leech Combo thing doesn't work right in Multiplayer. Host/Client issue if i was to guess.

 

correct functionality would be, while Toxic Lash is active, EVERY Melee Strike on an Enemy that has Spores active on it gives you a couple Energy. due to the great spreading nature of Spores now (much better than the sadface state Venom was in for so long), this means pretty much every Enemy you can see should regen Energy on Melee Strikes.

 

in Multiplayer though, the Energy Leech doesn't seem to work most of the time.

[DelialFallen]

-snip-

 

correct functionality would be, while Toxic Lash is active, EVERY Melee Strike on an Enemy that has Spores active on it gives you a couple Energy. due to the great spreading nature of Spores now (much better than the sadface state Venom was in for so long), this means pretty much every Enemy you can see should regen Energy on Melee Strikes.

 

-snip-

 

That would help out tremendously and actually make casting Spores on enemies while in melee viable in situations outside of controlled environments.

[taiiat]

That would help out tremendously and actually make casting Spores on enemies while in melee viable in situations outside of controlled environments.

it already works that way :/

 

just only works that way reliably in Solo or Simulation - is what i was saying, that there seems to be a Host/Client issue with it.

Edited November 12, 2015 by taiiat

[DelialFallen]

it already works that way :/

 

just only works that way reliably in Solo or Simulation - is what i was saying, that there seems to be a Host/Client issue with it.

 

It would seem there is an issue then, I agree.  It's possibly why I  never actually noticed any energy return outside of Simulacrum.

[VoidNomade]

try playing Solo, and see if you still feel the same way.

 

i'm getting more and more certain that this Energy Leech Combo thing doesn't work right in Multiplayer. Host/Client issue if i was to guess.

 

correct functionality would be, while Toxic Lash is active, EVERY Melee Strike on an Enemy that has Spores active on it gives you a couple Energy. due to the great spreading nature of Spores now (much better than the sadface state Venom was in for so long), this means pretty much every Enemy you can see should regen Energy on Melee Strikes.

 

in Multiplayer though, the Energy Leech doesn't seem to work most of the time.

 

Hm that could be part of the problem. Will try it out, thank you. :)

[Vikav]

Just my feedback.

 

True that saryn has always been a "push 4". But after the rework it's just too many things put together that messed her up understanding from dev's point is to get us to use her other skills but i'm sure some post has mentioned the same thing as will i.

 

Basically..

 

If saryn is modded for effeciency there won't be enough duration for her spore/lash/molt to proc toxic/viral and sustain for a miasma.

If modded for range there won't be enough damage as compared before the rework even with the toxic/viral procs.

If modded for duration for the other playstyles there won't be enough range and modded strength, there won't be enough effeciency.

Even if modded with ample requirements on the saryn to get the skills work cohesively, might as well don't use the skills because the weapons would do the job done better than her skills and the skills would end up behing just utilities.

 

Saryn now has to make time to push buttons going around meleeing and making sure mobs gets the proc in order to get the maximum output for her miasma when like any frame could just run around with other more damaging aoe weapons instantly.

 

Also reworking saryn this way i'm having energy issues to enjoy doing all those "combos".

I might as well run and gun. 

Like someone mentioned it's facing issues like the old ember now.

 

Not to mention the health drop.. It's just sad.. Saryn was suppose to be the unique health tank.

If i were to go melee to utilize the lash they would just die within the first or next few hits unless the augment mod is equipped to fully utilize but then i'm already in melee which i could destroy them instantaneously rather then spending the time getting hit pushing buttons.

 

I honestly don't see the base damage increment, things that saryn were able to kill in 1 push of a 4 isn't able to now.

The thing is you want Saryn to have more synergy in her skills but she's a ninja not some magician or caster from some mmo which combos her skills.

I think the most important thing to point out as of now which is saryn is a warframe that uses poison which right now does ample damage over time and requires synergy of her skill even if successfully done and the unit is taking damage, someone from the squad would just pop by to give it a hit killing it and poof, there goes the enjoyment of using saryn.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Vikav

[Tainted_Fox]

frost , the defensive tank. wave clears better than saryn. every other warframe who wave clears well has a lot more utility than saryn

saryn has to use viral and toxic procs to wave clear as effective as other frames.

saryn has to use more weapons, abilities and actions to deal as much damage as other warframes at a much slower rate

no thanks. i'll take literally any other warframe any day and use a penta to do three times as much as a sayrn