New Quest: The Second Dream [U18 Megathread/spoilers]

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

quest was awesome and i dont have any major issues with revalation, but i hope in future we can have adult person as operator. I also hope all quests from now on have cinematics. Alad V appearently also found cure for techonyte virus too and he also knows our secret now(because i quarantee he was there watching via comms, just didnt say a word to conceal his presence) So i smell trouble aside obivious menace of sentients.

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

Didn't the Warframe rip the sword out on its own?

Yes it did. It could also mean that stalker isnt controlled by anything either, wich would be better option than alternative.

[(PSN)DarknessLeoX]

i enjoyed this quest. i just wish there was a reply option to reply a mission or part of the mission you enjoyed the most

[(PSN)Soul-9181]

Our little friend in the back of the ship is such a creepo; makes me very uncomfortable in my ship now. Wish it would walk around the ship.

[Tau.]

While I'm aware that it's a cash cow and a half, I'm not a fan of YA type content. And you know what I'm talking about. The crux of the badassery in this solar system comes down to kids or teenagers - whatever you want to call them - with superpowers with Avatar (yes, like that 3d movie, not the Airbender universe) bodies? Yaaaaay... I liked it better when they were silent and enigmatic.

 

Now if they were just young-looking, that would be one thing, but it seems pretty clear that despite being god knows how old now, they still haven't grown up at all. They've seen and fought at least one calamitous war and don't appear to have been hardened at all by it, given their blatant disregard for the wisdom of the ancient Chinese proverb: "Talk **** - get hit." 

 

 You look at the relays, you look at the dojos; there's heavy theming toward meditation, serenity, self-discipline, wisdom, all that nice honorable Asian sort of stuff. You get the impression that those that designed such settings ought to put some stock into those ideals. But is that the case? Nope. You couldn't be more off if you let yourself think that. The overwhelming majority of the things they say in every transmission, in every mission, is insults directed at whatever faction is involved. Real mature. By the way they act, you'd figure the dojos and relays ought to look more like the insides of Hot Topic or Spencer's. 

 

So yeah... not a fan of their personalities.

 

And speaking of personalities - same as how we get to choose their voice and face - could we choose its personality too? If they have to be warfaring teenagers, I'd at least appreciate an option for something more mature than your typical, bratty, pampered, high schooler with a foul attitude. I'm sure the interns tried their little hearts out writing the scripts for these, but come on. They could really tone down the **** talk. 

 

I've put mine in the muted timeout corner until it learns some verbal restraint. 

[BornWithTeeth]

I like the quest a lot, I like the reveal, I'm even fond of the visual design of the Operators (well, my Operator anyway. I went for the shaven headed mutant soldier look), but I kinda have to agree with Jenemba on the personality thing.

 

 

I especially agree with them about the Dojos. The people who built those habitats were samurai in space. They built tranquil water gardens and austere clan halls, they lined their walls with the captured banners of their enemies. Their adornments were statues and ceremonial drums, shrines and incense burners.

 

So.....they should probably talk like people with decades or centuries of experience lived as a warrior culture.

[StormFirestar]

Underwater sections of the quest are completely unplayable on my laptop. All display settings set to low or turned off. I'm stuck on the second mission of the quest and unable to stay connected with any teams, 

Laptop is a Satellite S855D-S5120 with an AMD A10 4600M 3.2GHz, 8GB RAM, Radeon HD 7660G graphics. No amount of changing the options seems to help matters.

[(PSN)PaceBrkr]

You look at the relays, you look at the dojos; there's heavy theming toward meditation, serenity, self-discipline, wisdom, all that nice honorable Asian sort of stuff. You get the impression that those that designed such settings ought to put some stock into those ideals. But is that the case? Nope. You couldn't be more off if you let yourself think that. The overwhelming majority of the things they say in every transmission, in every mission, is insults directed at whatever faction is involved. Real mature. By the way they act, you'd figure the dojos and relays ought to look more like the insides of Hot Topic or Spencer's. 

 

So yeah... not a fan of their personalities.

 

And speaking of personalities - same as how we get to choose their voice and face - could we choose its personality too? If they have to be warfaring teenagers, I'd at least appreciate an option for something more mature than your typical, bratty, pampered, high schooler with a foul attitude. I'm sure the interns tried their little hearts out writing the scripts for these, but come on. They could really tone down the **** talk. 

 

I've put mine in the muted timeout corner until it learns some verbal restraint. 

 

 

I like the quest a lot, I like the reveal, I'm even fond of the visual design of the Operators (well, my Operator anyway. I went for the shaven headed mutant soldier look), but I kinda have to agree with Jenemba on the personality thing.

 

 

I especially agree with them about the Dojos. The people who built those habitats were samurai in space. They built tranquil water gardens and austere clan halls, they lined their walls with the captured banners of their enemies. Their adornments were statues and ceremonial drums, shrines and incense burners.

 

So.....they should probably talk like people with decades or centuries of experience lived as a warrior culture.

I can see where you're coming from but I don't feel like the Operator's are completely out of tune with things. A great deal of the ideology and themes of what a Tenno is/should be were crafted by the Orokin - meant to uplift those who admired them and frighten the enemy. I'm not saying all of that is a lie but there's still a warrior's spirit present despite having some attitude. Noting that your opponent has no honor or is cowardly (compared to our own training and methods) does sound a bit cocky but it shows that not all Tenno adhere to the same standard of behavior. There are wildcards who act on their own and prefer to be alone, the crafty, sneaky types and the "go in loud and tear everything up" types. That is the way we choose to conduct ourselves - just as we choose our weapons and Warframes. We are focused but we have our own line of thinking set aside from how we act.

 

We prove ourselves in combat and meditate to keep our minds sharp but underneath it, we're people just like the Grineer and the Corpus. The Tenno were never described as the perfect beings - the perfect warriors, maybe - all we knew before was that Tenno were stoic, silent and deadly warriors trained in the ways of old. Despite being trained in a method that requires you to carry yourself in a certain manner, your thoughts may still reflect another way of thinking at times (e.g. someone may be a calm, disciplined martial artist during matches but a fun-loving goof when not in practice or competition).

Edited December 20, 2015 by (PS4)VanTX89

[KaraFang]

Yeah, it continues to baffle me how some people still don't seem to "get it".  Have they not seen Avatar? 

 

You, the Tenno, thought you were the Warframe and felt like you were the Warframe - so all that heroic or villainous stuff you did, you really did it, and you literally experienced it AS THE WARFRAME, just like Jake Sully experiences the world AS THE NAVI AVATAR.

 

It's science fiction people, it's supposed to be mind-blowing and like nothing you could experience now in the everyday world, but it's a possibility that technology is going to open up in the future.

 

Although even today, you can get an inkling of it with the Oculus Rift. So you can extrapolate it from there.  Connect an Oculus Rift to a drone and you are seeing with the drone's eyes.  Now imagine all the other senses - touch, taste, smell, etc. - imagine the drone has receptors for all those, and it's transmitting the info back to you.  Now imagine that instead of twiddling with a joystick, there's a direct link to the activity centres in your brain so when you think of steering left you steer left.

 

You feel like you are where the drone is - hence "transference".  Consciousness transference via technology.

Except you change frames and sex... Could be a little hint to someone controlling frames (plural) that you are NOT the frame itself.

But it would certainly make it clear that you are remote controlling them.

[(PSN)ytpom]

　

Edited January 1, 2016 by (PS4)ytpom

[theshadow869]

Excellent quest, warframe has just taken on a whole new dimension, there I was just smacking up grineer, and then this came along... great storyline, great ideas, great music. Keep on making quests like this DE, it is better than some games I have paid for.

 

*I guess there are going to be more options for the Operator customization? Everything is pretty limited, but I suppose that is to be expected as it is a fresh release. Perhaps, to get a greater volume and diversity of voices, recordings could be collected from the community? Players could record their voices as they read out a given line and send it in, and DE could choose those players who had the voices they need the most to record all the necessary dialogue, so a range of accents could be collected to appeal to all nationalities and backgrounds. (I have no idea if this has already been suggested or anything).

Edited December 23, 2015 by theshadow869

[UrielColtan]

I want the next operator customization be that I can remove them from my ship. My tenno wears their Warframes and uses focus as they wear them.

Edited December 21, 2015 by UrielColtan

[ACorpse]

I have just completed the quest and now I regret it. Time to start a new account, I guess.

 

 

Will be hard to ignore this ...thing ... in my ship.

 

I see you've already created this second account from the solitary upvote each of your comments has received. But hey, you go right ahead and slice your nose off, that'll teach your face.

 

and I feel safe knowing that my PS4 account will NOT be duped into playing through the quest (as beautiful as the quest is, the consequences of finishing it are not worth it). 

 

I wonder how long I can get away with existing in the old lore on PS4--- hmmm? 

 

*pours a little drink out* This is for all the people that have to live with the pod-kid in the back of their ship... 

 

 We tried to warn you... 

 

You know there's an option to turn the operator interactions off, right? You get a fancy new sword, and that's it. No need to install lenses or use focus or anything.

 

Our little friend in the back of the ship is such a creepo; makes me very uncomfortable in my ship now. Wish it would walk around the ship.

 

Did you customise the operator at all? If they're creepy, they're that way 'cos you made them that way. Not saying it couldn't use a few more options but if you hate what you have back there, redo it.

[(XBOX)DeltaPhoenix501]

This update is so amazing.... I have never been mind****** in my entire life..... It was all in our dang faces the whole time....... Ordis was tell us things and we wouldn't listen :o

[FloraGreen]

DE thank you for making vauban valid for solo play due to Zenuriks energy regen.

I love Vauban but i hated that i needed to have a Trinity on the team to be valid.

Though I fear that if you nerf the regen, vau will once again be useless, unless you have a Trinity running after you all the time.

 

For now i just love playing my favorite frame without having to find a Trinity or use 20+ energy plates in a long run.

[UrielColtan]

I see you've already created this second account from the solitary upvote each of your comments has received. But hey, you go right ahead and slice your nose off, that'll teach your face.

 

 

You know there's an option to turn the operator interactions off, right? You get a fancy new sword, and that's it. No need to install lenses or use focus or anything.

 

 

Did you customise the operator at all? If they're creepy, they're that way 'cos you made them that way. Not saying it couldn't use a few more options but if you hate what you have back there, redo it.

 

 

No, I gave it an upvote too. Sorry you can't handle some people not loving this. The operators look bad no matter what  alterations you make. The default face of the male character faces also had rouge and eyeshadow for some reason, and yes, it was the dudes as they it had a broader torso and flatter chest.

Edited December 22, 2015 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

As far as explaining some of the unintended issues in the lore, this is the best outcome IMO. The writers were put in a corner by some aspects of the game such as one person fitting into male and female suits, but somehow we have the cake and can eat it too.

 

I like this plotline and hope DE sticks with this idea of the protagonist. Character creation has never felt so meaningful in a game.

 

That never needed explaining though. Changing the operator from a boy to a girl or from White to Black needs no Lore explanation. a gameplay feature like switching warframes should not require one either.

This does not feel like having cake and eating it too. It feels like being forced to be a kid, be given some cake and having action figures and dollies eat the cake for you.

Edited December 22, 2015 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

delete

Edited December 23, 2015 by UrielColtan

[UrielColtan]

Yeah, it continues to baffle me how some people still don't seem to "get it".  Have they not seen Avatar? 

 

You, the Tenno, thought you were the Warframe and felt like you were the Warframe - so all that heroic or villainous stuff you did, you really did it, and you literally experienced it AS THE WARFRAME, just like Jake Sully experiences the world AS THE NAVI AVATAR.

 

It's science fiction people, it's supposed to be mind-blowing and like nothing you could experience now in the everyday world, but it's a possibility that technology is going to open up in the future.

 

Although even today, you can get an inkling of it with the Oculus Rift. So you can extrapolate it from there.  Connect an Oculus Rift to a drone and you are seeing with the drone's eyes.  Now imagine all the other senses - touch, taste, smell, etc. - imagine the drone has receptors for all those, and it's transmitting the info back to you.  Now imagine that instead of twiddling with a joystick, there's a direct link to the activity centres in your brain so when you think of steering left you steer left.

 

You feel like you are where the drone is - hence "transference".  Consciousness transference via technology.

 

There are people who don't have any emotional concern for a drone compared to a person. Novel concept I know.

Drones also don't necessarily have a very endearing connotation in real life either what with the reputation ispy drones and drone strikes have. A drone that can permanently harm the user, in real life, would also be remarkably stupid and defeat the purpose of their use. Only by way of some sort of comic book level freak accident would this ever fly, and even then its still questionable depending on other details about that universe, though at the end of the day it is only that way becuase it was meticulously written to be that way, it can be written to embrace another way. In any case Tenno don't die from their Warframes, and the Warframes kill each other in conclave.

 

As for Avatar, some of us did not like  everything about "Dances with Smurf-face" to be honest. They could have had it where Jake Sully's actual body Hulked into a Na'avi for all the story they told mattered.

Still, the distinctions are glaring.

Alien body of a natural planetary race VS an immortal artificial humanoid armored weapon.

Jake Sully went into only one Alien body mapped specifically to his genetics, no one could just go around inhabiting just any created Na'vi.

The protagonist permanently goes into the alien body as well. The movie is also not depending on personal viewer customization. Jake Sully is his own established name and character, unencumbered by audience interactivity. Same for solopsist's-first-mental-masturbation philosophy screeds as well. Just because a writing exist, does not automatically make it of interests to someone in everything they engage in(Especially in interactive media with player custom identity, no further meta reference is required and many people like to shape their own look and identity in such games like this with no established main character. Since DE fail in face customization options, an obscured visage was/is serviceable.) or that any of it is beyond reproach.

 

Edited December 25, 2015 by UrielColtan

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

Actually, this has always been my issue : The misleading of the players.

 

 For example, take a  look at this quote from the "quick-start guide":

 

CHOOSING YOUR WARFRAME

After the introductory cinematic, you’ll be given a choice of three Warframes. Your Warframe functions as a kind of exo-armor suit that protects you from enemies and provides you with unique powers. The Warframe you choose will greatly impact your first missions, so choose wisely! Not to worry, this selection is not final. In time you will be able to construct or purchase additional Warframes to master!

 

 

You can see clearly that the Warframe was 100% originally a suit that was worn by Tenno, and this new concept of "drone" is something they have developed recently.  The above quote comes from Warframe.com itself-- it is the official starting guide, and is thus beyond contestation. 

In short, the DEVS changed the entire foundation of the story from underneath the feet of the veteran players. THAT is the issue. 

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

If there was not intent to deceive, then  all of the material needs to be rewritten and reflect the "current" lore.   However, if you go and look, none of the promotional material or previous lore has been rewritten. It all still evidences a story where the warframe was armor, not a drone. 

 

There is no other way to interpret this other than 1.) intentional deception or 2.) recent change of lore.

 

 This "drone" concept was clearly not the intended lore from the beginning (unless deliberate deception is the intention of the Devs, naturally.) 

[BornWithTeeth]

That's a slightly unhelpful take, though. Part of the whole point of U18 is that it would be, through the whole quest, a slow reveal of a shocking truth. In fact, people only starting warframe now, who might get up to the Second Dream in a couple months of casually playing, mightn't ever have that same stunning reveal, they'll have it spoiled for them before they get that far.

In that light, it makes perfect sense to me that for as long ahead of the reveal as possible, the devs would continue to simultaneously refer to warframes as armour AND drop subtle hints that the Tenno are controlling the frame, not in it. That goes back as far as the Rhino Prime codex entry, which just completely falls into place once you know the truth.

There's a big difference between you personally disliking the reveal, and the reveal itself being objectively badly done.

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

It has nothing to do with being helpful or unhelpful---- it is clearly to point out that the assumption that the warframes were armor wasn't a random idea we had-- it was literally what we were told by the Devs. The warframes being a type of armor is literally written on this very website and is clearly the lore upon which many of the earlier story arcs was built on. 

 

Your comment of "you personally disliking" is also off base too-- as my reason for "not liking it" is based solely on the fact that U18 contradicts all the previous lore (Ember and Rhino's entries don't  count as evidence to u18 because they are definitive evidence.. as the entries do not require us to arrive at u18's conclusions.. they merely retroactively support it.) 

 

Point it-- as someone who invested money into the story line presented to me my the developers (warframes are exo armor) .. to be delivered a lore which contradicts this statement (warframes are drones) is a legit reason to be disgusted by the lore.  It isn't a simply matter of "I didn't like it".. it is a matter of "I was told one thing and invested money into that, and then I was delivered a different product." 

 

Then, when I previously said this, people posted that I was at fault because I assumed warframes were armor--- however, this wasn't an assumption.  This very website.. the "guide" written for new players... directly says that warframes are a type of armor.  Hell, they still have not changed this-- which still presents new players with a false sense of the game they are playing.

 

Now, I know many people haven't spent a dime on this game.. fine.

 

But, for those of us who actually spent money (read : invested money) into the game because we liked the game and its story and wanted to support the company to develop it ( read : if the developers make money, they make more game. If they don't make money, then game goes away.) --- we feel slighted because we were delivered lore which contradicted the story we thought we were financially supporting.

 

Now, some people spent money on the game and liked the new lore-- that is fine.   I'm not speaking for them.  I am only speaking for those of us who laid out a fair amount of money under the pretenses of warframes=armor  and ended up with warframes=drones.

 

 We have every right to be pissed because we paid for a product we didn't get. 

 

I keep being told I have no right to be pissed--- but considering I have put my money where my mouth is, I do have the right to express my disapproval of this change of lore.

 

And it clearly is a change of lore, as AGAIN-- this very website still refers to warframes as armor, not drones.

 

 Again, this has nothing to do with the quality of the mission itself (the mission was beautifully done.. the cinematics, the music, etc.. it was amazing and beautiful.) ...

 

... this has to do with  the devs either changing the story up, after we had invested in what was already advertised -- OR -- the devs intentionally misleading players. They either changed the lore later on OR they had this planned the whole time.  Either way, it is messed up on many levels. 

 

Also, quick note. To those who say that my complaints are doomed to have no impact :

 

1.) Mass Effect's ending pissed off players-- a new ending was developed.

2.) Sherlock Holme's death pissed of readers so much they complained enough and he was brought back to life

 

 These are just two quick and simple examples of the players (read: Customers) who were not happy with the product they were delivered and complained.

 

 Warframe-- for some of you-- is a free ride.  But, for some of us, we are actually paying customers. And some of us paying customers feel like we got the shaft with this change of lore. 

 

 Thus, because we are paying customers, we get to complain. That is how business works.

 

 So again-- I fail to see the part where.. as a paying customer who feels he was shafted ... I don't get to complain.  I was told this game was about armor wearing warriors.. not only did the game directly say such (this website STILL says it) but in-game indications pointed to such.. and suddenly. out of seemingly nowhere... it turns into a game about kids piloting drones.  I have every reason and right to complain. 

edit :  in above post,  it is meant to say "ember and rhino's entries are NOT definitive evidence" 

[BornWithTeeth]

Well, you can certainly complain, but....I don't think that DE will change it back. There were a couple of polls, and the people who didn't like the reveal were definitely in the minority, by a substantial margin.

 

 

 

 

For instance.....I thought it was pretty cool. And hey, I've bought platinum and a bundle, so I too have put money into the game. Matter of fact, I thought the whole quest was so well done that it tipped me over the edge into getting the Frost Prime Vault, which I might not otherwise have done. Goes both ways. So.....yeah, actually. When you say that paying customers feel slighted, that's not me that you're speaking for. It's not the majority.

Edited December 27, 2015 by BornWithTeeth

[(PSN)Nujintuai]

First, allow me to concur with your statement. As I posted previously, there are those who 1.) have put money into the game and 2.) like the new lore.  You are one of them and my statements do not cover/speak for you. Absolutely.  (I am happy you are happy with the changed lore, as I really like Warframe, but the new lore just gets under my skin.) 

 

The primary point I was intending to make, which I admit was lost some in my second post, was that the lore was changed. Simply put, despite what many people (most of them new to the game, in all honesty) wish to say, the original lore and the still un-updated promotional material and beginner's guide (found on this very website) clearly state that Warframes are armor that Tenno wear.  There is no way around this fact.  

 

 Furthermore, my point was to also fall "b.s." on using Ember Prime and Rhino Prime's CODEX entries as "proof". They are not proof. They are merely circumstantial evidence. They can be retroactively applied to the new lore, but PREVIOUS to the new lore, they did not demand the new lore as their only possible resolution. As such, they do not meet the standard of proof required in this situation.  

However, my quotes from this website (the beginner's guide, the other bits of lore from the game, etc) do meet the Standard of Proof that Warframes were originally armor, and only recently changed to be drones.  This standard of proof is met directly when the site directly states that warframes are armor worn by tenno. It is a direct statement with no interpretation or need to assume... it is a direct quote.  

 

Thus, the point I was intending to harp on (before I was sidetracked) was that "all of the people who previously claimed I was salty because I had misinterpreted the story" are incorrect. I was relying on the material released by the developers of the game which explicitly stated that warframes are armor worn by tenno. 

 

Furthermore, with that explicit statement from the developers, we are left with only two possible options : 1.) the developers changed the story (This is the option I believe to be true)  or 2.) the developers simply bait-and-switched us all.    It is not possible for the "warframes are armor" and "warframes are drones" realities to co-exists, especially since the body of evidence favors the "warframes=armor, prior to U18".

 

 

p.s.  On the issue of a Poll :  While I am aware that most of the players seem to like the new lore, I hazard trusting such a random poll. The reason for this is three-fold:

 

1.) The poll wasn't known or easily accessed. For example,I never saw the poll. 

2.) The poll does not take into account if people have financially supported the game or not

3.) The poll does not take into account if the people are long time veterans or brand new to the game

 

 For example.. .if 10 brand-new never paid out anything for the game players say they like the new lore... and 1 long-time veteran who has paid out over $200  said he hates the new lore...  Then you can see that such a poll is highly skewed.

 

 Now-- we have two options here.  The first option would favor the Veteran.  This would mean that the developers would ignore the non-paying players and favor the long term veteran.

 

 However, there is another model which suggest that the developers have already gotten hundreds of dollars out of the veteran, and so they would toss him to the side and try to market to the "as-of-yet" unpaying players --- in an attempt to get them to drop money. 

 

And that is what I believe has happened here. I believe the developers have chosen to shaft the older players (as they already have our money) and have changed the game so they can market it to a different demographic, in an attempt to get their previously untapped money. 

 

While this is a valid business tactic, I find it most distasteful. (Of course I do, as I am the long time veteran who has been shafted so that they can attempt to get money from a different demographic.) 

 

 But, again, I digress.   I still love Warframe and I still will play it-- I just won't financial support it anymore. Let the new demographic support the game now, as the developer's have so clearly shown their favor towards.   (Warning : The developers will eventually shift the lore again to attempt to access another demographic's wallets, so even the current lore is probably subject to change in a year or so.) 

 

With all that said, I feel compelled to end on a summation of my primary and original point :   Warframe's own promotional material and website clearly state that Warframes are armor worn by Tenno. The company hasn't bothered to update this, and because of this material still being present, anybody can clearly see that Warframe=Drone was a recent change.