High Lvl Serration Mod: Srsly De?

[Viivrabe]

im making steady progress from 10 to 11 on my seration, i throw in any excess moda and credits into it as i go. you cant grow a crop in a day, you have to farm it first

 

if that makes any sence

[mmSNAKE]

Last two levels for Serration and Hornet strike are harsh. Just do it in segments. Dump 500 at a time or so. All those hellfires, Mind Controls, Well of Life, Venom, Blunderbuss, Organ Shatter. I just dump them when I see my total mod amount is over 2500.

[SnokyoDrift]

It takes less than 500 average fusion cores to get Serration/Hornet from level 9>10. The cost is about 450k. This is faster than using duplicates.

 

It isn't anywhere near impossible to do, and if you think it is, you have no reason to think about doing it.

 

If you dump trash mods and mods with clashing polarities on it, it will cost you thousands of mods and you still won't be done. Fuse smart instead of with pure quantity.

[Xylia]

It takes less than 500 average fusion cores to get Serration/Hornet from level 9>10. The cost is about 450k. This is faster than using duplicates.

 

It isn't anywhere near impossible to do, and if you think it is, you have no reason to think about doing it.

 

If you dump trash mods and mods with clashing polarities on it, it will cost you thousands of mods and you still won't be done. Fuse smart instead of with pure quantity.

 

Playing smart or no, it is still a bit of a ridiculous amount.

 

There's several mods this way and you go from 500 Cores and 450k to.... well, let's see.

 

Serration

Hornet Strike

Redirection

Vitality

 

That alone is 2,000 Cores and 1,800,000 credits using your estimation.

 

Oh, and.... Sentinels also have Redirection and Vitality. lol. So 3,000 Cores and 2,700,000 credits.

 

It is just silly.

 

How about instead of having Rank10 mods.... make them max out at Rank5 and double the effectiveness of each rank so we don't get such absurd numbers of mods needed?

Edited June 4, 2013 by Xylia

[SnokyoDrift]

Playing smart or no, it is still a bit of a ridiculous amount.

 

There's several mods this way and you go from 500 Cores and 450k to.... well, let's see.

 

Serration

Hornet Strike

Redirection

Vitality

 

That alone is 2,000 Cores and 1,800,000 credits using your estimation.

 

Oh, and.... Sentinels also have Redirection and Vitality. lol. So 3,000 Cores and 2,700,000 credits.

 

It is just silly.

 

How about instead of having Rank10 mods.... make them max out at Rank5 and double the effectiveness of each rank so we don't get such absurd numbers of mods needed?

 

Because you absolutely MUST obtain every single rank 10 mod in the game right? It's in the rules. Here, the idea of 'play smarter' comes in.

2.7 mil is not hard to get. 3000 cores IS, but you only need ~1000 to max out the 2 final levels of hornet and serration.

[DarkMark]

You act like fusion cores are found by the dozen.

[Xylia]

You act like fusion cores are found by the dozen.

 

I unlocked half of Uranus + several Mars and Saturn Missions.

 

I had about 10 cores before doing that.

 

I have about 35 now.

 

This took me about 4 hours to do.

 

So, if I got 25 cores in 4 hours of running missions and killing lots of junk (was trying to level a Boltor in the process), it would take, what, 160 hours to get the 1,000 needed cores.

 

For.......ONE.......stinking mod's ONE level, from 9->10.

 

That's a bit ridiculous. I'm sorry, it just is.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Xylia

[LazerusKI]

Yea, it costs the same amount for all mods.

If you would look at it with the same mod fusing all the time.

1-2-4-8-16-32-64-128-256-512-1024 ... And so forth.

even more.

i dont know where, but i think its somewhere at rank 4, you will need 3 mods to gain one level.

so se "2 for 1" rule fits only at the lower levels.

i have 2 rank 5 serrations, if the rule would be right, they would fuse to 50%...but no, its only a very small part.

so 1024 is the absolute minimum you could need, the real value is much higher

Edited June 4, 2013 by LazerusKI

[Keetsune]

Amount of mods with same name u need to fuse for each of lvl:

 

1 lvl   : 1

2 lvl   : 2

3 lvl   : 4

4 lvl   : 8

5 lvl   : 16

6 lvl   : 32

7 lvl   : 64

8 lvl   : 128

9 lvl   : 256

10 lvl : 512

 

Seration is Uncomon so here the comparsion of other mods vs same name mod:

 

Common mod same polarity           = 1/4

Uncomon mod same polarity          = 1/2

Rare mod same polarity                 = 3/4

Common mod different polarity      = 1/8

Uncommon mod different polarity   = 1/4

Rare mod different polarity             = 3/8

 

All fusion cores counts as mods with same polarity:

 

Fusion core common 3         = 3/4

Fusion core uncommon 5     = 5/2

Fusion core rare 5                = 15/4

 

So u need 512/3,75 = 137 Rare Fusion cores to lvl it up from 9 to 10.

 

 

Fore me this looks pretty fine.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Keetsune

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

Risk vs. reward. Melee weapons offer the most risk yet don't offer equal or better reward.

 

Going melee against infested means you stand a damn good chance of being stun locked and poisoned to death, or having your energy sapped.

 

Going ranged means you can stand on a crate and pick them off at your leisure.

 

What this has to do with mods? Specifically melee damage not (not charge speed/damage, which is fine for the most part) is completely outdated even at max level by the time you reach mid to late tier missions. And I'm not talking about endless defense.

Yes, that's the caveat with it, melee requires that you sport a tanky frame and know how to move to funnel your enemies into a position that you can exploit. I'm at end level missions now and I've had very little problems with melee or it's usability against either faction because I've trained very hard to be good at it. Sure, I will get stunlocked just like the rest of you, but I still can clear a room of infested without too much trouble. I do acceptable damage which feels on par with the guns I have, so I don't really consider that an issue.

 

But of course as always, equipping the right weapon for the right faction is a must. Going up against the Grineer with a non-AP weapon is a downright nightmare.

 

Having OP mods won't make you a better player by allowing you to faceroll everything. Also, Grineer and non-AP weapons are a definite no-no.

[DaJetLife]

took me a bunch of rare fusion cores to only get from half to to full on mine :P

[PaperAlien]

My main problem with this is actually that Hornet Strike somehow gets the same bonuses at a much lower rank, and Point Blank can't even go above 5. Seriously, what's with the inequality?

[IcarusNine]

If Pressure Point were boosted to 150%, a Scindo with Pressure Point + North Wind + Molten Impact + Shocking Touch, all maxed, assuming no Armor/Armor Pierce would do a whopping:

 

125 Base Damage + 90% from Molten Impact = 237.5 Damage.

125 Base Damage + 60% from North Wind = 200 Damage.

125 Base Damage + 30% from Shocking Touch = 162.5 Damage

 

Add them up: 600 Damage Per Swing to Multiple Mobs.

 

........ya. Overpowered.

You're adding the base damage multiple times, once for each element, when you shouldn't be.

125 + (125*90%) + (125*60%) + (125*30%) = 350, not 600

The scindo's charge attack:

500+ (500*90%) + (500*60%) + (500*30%) = 1400

 

f3llyn's point is that Killing Blow is fine, but Pressure Point is trash.  Even if Pressure Point is buffed to be at the same level as Killing Blow, most weapons* already gain more DPS from charge attacks than quick attacks, and the disparity between Pressure Point and Killing Blow only extends that further.

[MoonicusMaximus]

What exactly are people expecting to happen with non-charge melee attacks?

 

Single non-charge attacks normally take 3-4 attacks to match those of a single charge attack, but both have advantages and disadvantages to compensate. There is no charge time for single attacks, they come out faster and you cannot be staggered by normal attacks during swings while, when charging a swing, many things can and will knock you out of it if you are struck.

 

People seem keen on comparing non-charged attacks and charged attacks as though they are separate weapons entirely, when they are actually two parts and two methods of using a single weapon. One for quick, weaker strikes, one for slower, stronger strikes. I get the impression that quick strikes are meant as a more reactionary means of melee, used to quickly stun on short notice or kill weakened enemies without the charging time of a charged attack.

 

So I don't see much of a reason for buffing Pressure Point beyond what it is right now, as even if you do, it still won't change its role, purpose and primary use, as charge attacks will continue being a stronger but more unreliable means of DPS.

[Xylia]

You're adding the base damage multiple times, once for each element, when you shouldn't be.

125 + (125*90%) + (125*60%) + (125*30%) = 350, not 600

The scindo's charge attack:

500+ (500*90%) + (500*60%) + (500*30%) = 1400

 

Even 350 per fast swing is overpowered when it hits multiple mobs and happens every second without being buffed by Fury.

 

Wham, 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

 

Even if it is only 350 and not 600 (yeah okay I messed up the math a little), 350 is still way too much for an attack that hits every second. With Fury, you could buff that to 60% faster swing speed. So in less than half a second, you can do 350 damage to everything in front of you within melee range?

 

I'm sorry that sounds a little overpowered to me.

[DeadlyNerd]

Even 350 per fast swing is overpowered when it hits multiple mobs and happens every second without being buffed by Fury.

 

Wham, 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

 

Even if it is only 350 and not 600 (yeah okay I messed up the math a little), 350 is still way too much for an attack that hits every second. With Fury, you could buff that to 60% faster swing speed. So in less than half a second, you can do 350 damage to everything in front of you within melee range?

 

I'm sorry that sounds a little overpowered to me.

Actually, it's 1.3sec if it's not buffed by Fury, it's not 350 to all mobs all the time as the character can do an overhead swing, some mobs have passive damage reduction(no, not armor), swings can be interrupted unlike charges.

 

So yeah, you go do that against a group of 50+ infested and I'll stand back watching you get knocked down after the first swipe and trampled to death by chargers. God forbid there's an ancient in there, or nearby. No, using Rhino is against the rules here as we're testing weapons and not warframes.

 

But this is derailing the initial topic.

 

Yes, I feel high ranks of mods need to be toned down in fusion core requirements.

Yes, I'm also fine with the current situation as 105% Serration and maxed elemental damages+armor piercing is possible with only 1 polarization and is enough for everything excluding late waves on defense missions where weapons don't do much damage anyway.

Edited June 4, 2013 by DeadlyNerd

[Hauteclere]

What exactly are people expecting to happen with non-charge melee attacks?

 

Single non-charge attacks normally take 3-4 attacks to match those of a single charge attack, but both have advantages and disadvantages to compensate. There is no charge time for single attacks, they come out faster and you cannot be staggered by normal attacks during swings while, when charging a swing, many things can and will knock you out of it if you are struck.

 

People seem keen on comparing non-charged attacks and charged attacks as though they are separate weapons entirely, when they are actually two parts and two methods of using a single weapon. One for quick, weaker strikes, one for slower, stronger strikes. I get the impression that quick strikes are meant as a more reactionary means of melee, used to quickly stun on short notice or kill weakened enemies without the charging time of a charged attack.

 

So I don't see much of a reason for buffing Pressure Point beyond what it is right now, as even if you do, it still won't change its role, purpose and primary use, as charge attacks will continue being a stronger but more unreliable means of DPS.

 

My point with less text and

subtle' hinting. Thank you.

 

Edit: Still though, this isn't the right thread to be having that rather odd argument anyway.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Hauteclere

[Keetsune]

Even 350 per fast swing is overpowered when it hits multiple mobs and happens every second without being buffed by Fury.

 

Wham, 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

One second later, wham 350 to multiple mobs.

 

Even if it is only 350 and not 600 (yeah okay I messed up the math a little), 350 is still way too much for an attack that hits every second. With Fury, you could buff that to 60% faster swing speed. So in less than half a second, you can do 350 damage to everything in front of you within melee range?

 

I'm sorry that sounds a little overpowered to me.

Seems u dont know that 80% of mobs have armor & resists?

 

I want to see how u rush trhough horde of 60+ lvl medium greeners with ur overpovered fast atacks :D

Edited June 4, 2013 by Keetsune

[Xylia]

Seems u dont know that 80% of mobs have armor & resists?

 

I want to see how u rush trhough horde of 60+ lvl medium greeners with ur overpovered fast atacks :D

 

You obviously didn't read the part about where if you have a maxed AP mod on, the theoretical Scindo with the 150% Pressure Point would do a whopping ~250-300 guaranteed damage to Heavy Grineer, BEFORE adding in the other elemental damages.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Xylia

[IcarusNine]

even more.

i dont know where, but i think its somewhere at rank 4, you will need 3 mods to gain one level.

so se "2 for 1" rule fits only at the lower levels.

i have 2 rank 5 serrations, if the rule would be right, they would fuse to 50%...but no, its only a very small part.

so 1024 is the absolute minimum you could need, the real value is much higher

That's because ranking up a mod doesn't increase it's value proportionally.  Each rank is worth about half a card's initial value.

A rank 5 mod would be equivalent to three rank 0 mods (even though it would take you 1+2+4+8+16, 31 rank 0 mods to get to rank 5).

 

At least, the last time I tested it.

Edited June 4, 2013 by IcarusNine

[Keetsune]

You obviously didn't read the part about where if you have a maxed AP mod on, the theoretical Scindo with the 150% Pressure Point would do a whopping ~250-300 guaranteed damage to Heavy Grineer, BEFORE adding in the other elemental damages.

In ur dreams

[IcarusNine]

90% of 125 is ~113 damage.  125+113 would be 238 damage.  And that's assuming a level 1 Heavy Grineer in Mercury.

In Eris, that would drop to probably 175 against enemies that can also take several times more damage.

 

A charge attack would be doing 950 damage for every 350 damage you do in Eris with quick attacks.

 

Which sounds more overpowered?

[SirNerdsAlot5]

They just need to add a Fusion Core Rare 7

[Xylia]

90% of 125 is ~113 damage.  125+113 would be 238 damage.  And that's assuming a level 1 Heavy Grineer in Mercury.

In Eris, that would drop to probably 175 against enemies that can also take several times more damage.

 

A charge attack would be doing 950 damage for every 350 damage you do in Eris with quick attacks.

 

Which sounds more overpowered?

 

Charge attacks require you to stand still and can be interrupted.

 

Scindo/Fragor/Gram have Momentum, which means you can keep swinging through some hits.

 

And don't forget that a Heavy Grineer takes 150% of AP damage to his body, so don't forget to multiply that 113 damage by 1.5 (which comes out to 170 damage) + weapon damage + elemental damages. If you got lucky and were to nail him in the head, that would be 300% instead, according to Wiki. So that would be 339 damage + base + elemental damages instead.

 

Considering you could probably land about 2.5 - 3 normal swings (with Fury), move while doing so, have a lot less chance of being interrupted, yeah, the normal swinging is more overpowered if Pressure Point really did give 150% instead of the 42% it now gives.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Xylia

[Thelonious]

falacious arguments

*gets his Hek and one-shot ancients from 10 meters away*

If you talk about damage number comparaisons, you should take a look at some weapons with maxed out mods before advancing your arguments.

A 150% pressure point would barely put normal melee attacks dps on par with some of the strongest guns. But it would be a good start to improve melee gameplay.

And Scindo is a bad example, because there are other weapons in the game actually designed to use normal melee attacks, like the Dual Zorens. Oh sure, you can charge with those too, but the crit/crit damage bonus they have only applies to normal attacks.

Good luck killing an ancient in the 5th wave of Xini with that, even fully modded for melee damage, with every element, crit, fury...And you're not even immune to stagger while using it.

Meanwhile a scindo would kill 3 of those in a single charge.

At least the scindo is still useful in the current state of the game. Well, you can still do the flying squirrel with the Zorens but...yeah.

But obviously whoever's in charge of balancing at DE's office decided at U7 that normal melee attacks didn't deserve to be used. Wonder why.