The Boss I Didn't Want To Kill.

[SgtCapricorn]

Without deterioration the Grineer would be without number, and quickly overwhelm the galaxy.

Tyl does not want to do it because he wants a better life for the Grineer, he wants to conquer the galaxy like the other Grineer.

It's a few people that endlessly clone themselves that that they can rule all.

Edited June 4, 2013 by SgtCapricorn

[Hekatonkheire]

 You mean everything Lotus didn't consider 'Part of her charge'.

 

 I'm one of the guys who is convinced that the Lotus we are talking to is a small part of a large AI network that was built by the people who came before (I still hesitate to call their whole culture 'The Tenno' since it seems to be the name of their Warrior caste, not their people.) in order to watch over the sleeping Tenno protectors.

 

 Something big and bad happened at some point in the past that left the people who came before desperate enough to hide their Warriors. The Lotus is likely the AI meant to wake them when it was safe/time.

 

 I think they were woken up earlier then intended. Much earlier. The Lotus catching wind of the fact that both the Grineer and the Corpus have started to unravel the Orokin tech is a likely cause. We find soldiers from BOTH sides in the void, taken over by the Neural Parasite Defense system. Both of the enemy factions have figured out how to get right to the gates of the Orokin secrets. 

 

If we're removing Orokin artifacts from "The Void" where is Lotus putting them that's more Secure ? why isn't that being attacked ? because when you go into the void, those attacked by the neural parasite guard it and attack us. Aren't we supposedly friendly ?

 

That also makes me wonder about the Primes vs normal.

I think Excalibur is a knockoff version of the Orokin tech Excalibur Prime. 

 

We don't get to know enough about the Old war to know who we are, which for stories purpose works wonders on the imagination, hell look at us !

 

 

As for Lotus being and AI, I honestly think she's the bad guy, the Sentience from the Old War.

 

Edit: Why do I think that ?

1. Because Lotus wants us to kill infested

2. Technocyte/Infested were made to fight The Sentience

3. Golum (Infested Boss) says:

• "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh."

Edited June 4, 2013 by Karetchi

[Afroman12]

Either his race dies or your race and allies dies. Choose.

[SgtCapricorn]

If we're removing Orokin artifacts from "The Void" where is Lotus putting them that's more Secure ? why isn't that being attacked ? because when you go into the void, those attacked by the neural parasite guard it and attack us. Aren't we supposedly friendly ?

 

 I imagine the AI that controls the neural parasite is programmed to attack anyone that enters.

 It's pretty common in sci-fi for computers to try to kill their makers because of the exclusion of "except for us!" in the programming "Kill everything"

[TheErebus.]

Either his race dies or your race and allies dies. Choose.

That is the thinking that makes us more of the enemy.

If we are the to be the on the side of good, then we must think twice and much more carefully than that.

[IcarusNine]

I was always under the impression the Grineer were violent and domineering because of their failing empire.

Not sure where I got that from, but it made killing Tyl Regor seem like playing the short game.

[Eisen]

It's not about good or evil.

It's about strength, it's about purpose, it's about retribution, and with them comes justice.

How many of us have you rescued from their ships? how many of our brethren live today thanks to your efforts?
Do you think you rescued them all? what do you think they do to those of us not lucky enough to be taken away from their rotting claws?

They hate us.
They envy us.
They fear us.

We are the living proof of their mistake, we are everything they want to be, we are everything they will never be.
How do you think Tyl Regor found the way to fix their decaying DNA? experimenting on animals? no. Their hands are red with the blood of our brothers and sisters.

Imagine being in cryo stasis, a peaceful sleep, imagine opening your eyes only to see the sickening stare of a grineer while you're strapped to an 
operating table.
Imagine their visage as they rip your warframe from your skin, imagine them dismembering you, limb by limb like an insect while you're kept alive for even more tests and their amusement.
Imagine our brothers fading away in some damp and rusted lab, without glory, without a last battle, only impotent rage.
Imagine their last words : avenge us.

I was bred as a weapon of war, i was raised to uphold a code, i was taught to be cold, martial and unstoppable.
And when i see a grineer all i can hear are the voices of our fallen, and when they're motionless, broken and in pieces at my feet all i see is retribution.

No, i don't have any tears for the grineer, i will kill every last one of them.

/roleplay mode off

Its a war, make your own reasons, but make no mistake, they are your enemy.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Eisen

[Hekatonkheire]

Either his race dies or your race and allies dies. Choose.

 

I haven't been called to Lotus HQ to defend. 

 

We seem to attack, even our "defense" missions are attacking bases to secure for a team to take something back.

[Blatantfool]

 

If we're removing Orokin artifacts from "The Void" where is Lotus putting them that's more Secure ? why isn't that being attacked ? because when you go into the void, those attacked by the neural parasite guard it and attack us. Aren't we supposedly friendly ?

 

That also makes me wonder about the Primes vs normal.

I think Excalibur is a knockoff version of the Orokin tech Excalibur Prime. 

 

We don't get to know enough about the Old war to know who we are, which for stories purpose works wonders on the imagination, hell look at us !

 

 

As for Lotus being and AI, I honestly think she's the bad guy, the Sentience from the Old War.

 

Edit: Why do I think that ?

1. Because Lotus wants us to kill infested

2. Technocyte/Infested were made to fight The Sentience

3. Golum (Infested Boss) says:

• "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh."

 

 

 The people who became the Tenno probably found all that tech, they didn't create it. The Void is Orokin made. The Neural Parasite Defense system is Orokin Made. The Prime Warframes also Orokin made.

 

 The Tenno learned to use it. They adapted their technology to what they found. 

 

 The neural parasites don't see us as allies because we are not its allies. It is a remnant of a dead people. The Orokin were wiped out, even in the void - their last hiding place.

 

 

 As for AI Lotus - we can't say. Not enough story yet. "We are your flesh" could just as easily be a shot at the fact that the Infested have absorbed parts of Humanity into its collective - as well as the fact that Warframes themselves are ALSO made from some of the same material that create the infested.

 

 I actually like to think the Warframe suits are a bit alive. Like a symbiote. It'd explain why they make use of Technocyte in their makeup. 

[Worira]

I think people in this thread are missing a very important point: He insulted your fashion.

[SgtCapricorn]

Edit: Why do I think that ?

1. Because Lotus wants us to kill infested

2. Technocyte/Infested were made to fight The Sentience

3. Golum (Infested Boss) says:

• "Why do you destroy us? We are your flesh."

 

 It's not like the Infected are friendly to the Corpus or Grineer either.

 They try to kill, and are killed by, the Infected just as often as we are.

 Golum is just being creepy, because he was a human that was infected, and he's taunting you using that.

[CosyPigeon]

That is the thinking that makes us more of the enemy.

If we are the to be the on the side of good, then we must think twice and much more carefully than that.

 

Being on the side of good is a luxury, being on the side that survives seems to be more important right now. 

[TheGreyGuardian]

When will people stop trying to plaster the words "good" and "evil" all over different groups and realize that it's all relative. To them, they're the good guys trying to rule the galaxy or further their people or whatever they're trying to do. To us, we're the good guys, trying to stop the mean ol' clones from ruining everyone's day. But really, what do you get from labeling yourself as a good guy? Stat boosts? Extra credits? Rare gear?

 

I don't see the point in labeling myself like that. To me, it's all just a matter of conflicting interests. They want something that goes against what I want, and they're willing to kill for it, so I'm willing to kill them back.

[Hekatonkheire]

 The people who became the Tenno probably found all that tech, they didn't create it. The Void is Orokin made. The Neural Parasite Defense system is Orokin Made. The Prime Warframes also Orokin made.

 

 The Tenno learned to use it. They adapted their technology to what they found. 

 

 The neural parasites don't see us as allies because we are not its allies. It is a remnant of a dead people. The Orokin were wiped out, even in the void - their last hiding place.

 

 

 As for AI Lotus - we can't say. Not enough story yet. "We are your flesh" could just as easily be a shot at the fact that the Infested have absorbed parts of Humanity into its collective - as well as the fact that Warframes themselves are ALSO made from some of the same material that create the infested.

 

 I actually like to think the Warframe suits are a bit alive. Like a symbiote. It'd explain why they make use of Technocyte in their makeup. 

 

That's pretty plausible actually. 

 

There's no Mechanical parts to the Warframe. 

 

I've only ever ran the Excalibur and Excalibur Prime frames, but I was always under assumption that the complex stuff on his spine was some sort of integration to the pilots nervous system.

 

I didn't know that much about the Tenno, but it kind of paints them in a sort of "Elitist" light. They utilize Orokin technology but condemn others who try as being Evil.

 

I was always under the assumption that:

Grineer were Humans. 

Corpus were a sect or a faction who splintered off before the militarization. 

Tenno were a separate entity from before Human Civilisation. 

Edited June 4, 2013 by Karetchi

[Blatantfool]

Nah, Tenno are a branch of Humanity too. They just 'Ascended' with the Orokin technology they have a monopoly over. Inside those suits are Men and Women - sorta. I'd imagine the symbiote suit changes them.

[Sixty5]

This reminds me of the Krogan and the points that were made in ME3 about the consequences of curing the Genophage. They'll reproduce and grow to a large number.

The same can be said for the Grineer. If they cure the condition that they are in, it can lead to disaster. More efficient soldiers and whatnot.

I guess in the end... no one in Warframe is truly good or bad.

...

Except the Rollers.

 

During my first ME3 playthrough I committed genocide 3 times. And I liked those races alot more than I like the Grineer.

 

(note I'll admit that two were not by choice, chose geth over quarians and then picked destroy, Wreav's Krogaan vs Mordin though? Hell no)

 

Might go kill him some more.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Sixty5

[lonelydrone]

This reminds me of the Krogan and the points that were made in ME3 about the consequences of curing the Genophage. They'll reproduce and grow to a large number.

The same can be said for the Grineer. If they cure the condition that they are in, it can lead to disaster. More efficient soldiers and whatnot.

I guess in the end... no one in Warframe is truly good or bad.

...

Except the Rollers.

 

Toally agree..... rollers are good. XD

[BadlandsHyena]

The Lotus is definitely hiding something. I've noticed her saying "The Lotus will be pleased" so Blatantfool's idea about a massive AI Network seems to strike true, somewhat.

 

As for murdering the scientist?

 

.... I have no contradicting emotions about it.

 

On the lore side of things, I'm probably one of the Tenno that lives on the line of "The Lotus is supreme."

 

Yet, doubts are forming in my mind. On one hand, we -are- purging the world of dominating forces, indoctrinating forces and infecting forces, yet on the other hand, I cannot shake the feeling that ever so slowly, we are becoming like them

 

On the gameplay side of things:

Give me more materials. Spawn Stalker.

[Luxangel7]

Hold on. So....

 

Scientist who is part of massive space empire of evil and oppression is close to curing/restoring/fixing all weaknesses caused by cloning of said evil space empire....

 

....and you want cuddlez?

 

.....Op I only have one question....

 

When I eliminate you, will you please drop the Hate bp this time for my friend? He really wants it.

Edited June 4, 2013 by LuxAngel7

[Lysander26]

Well, I #$@#$ you not, but the next mission after I read this thread, the Stalker comes to kill me for the murder of Tyl Regor. End of Mission, "The Lotus will be pleased."

Yep, I have a feeling we just maybe the Terminators for Skynet. Awesome Job and awesome thing to be a Terminator, but I don't think we're on the side of the angels...

[Vahlak]

The fan base questions everything that we do in the game. If there was a story or restricted lore to killing Tyl, we wouldn't care.

It's the Dark Souls effect. The story is for us to decide, with hints of what is actually happening.

Praise the Sun!   \o/

[TheErebus.]

Praise the Sun!   \o/

Abyss*

HAHAHA!

[Blatantfool]

Praise the Sun!   \o/

\o/

[lonelydrone]

 The people who became the Tenno probably found all that tech, they didn't create it. The Void is Orokin made. The Neural Parasite Defense system is Orokin Made. The Prime Warframes also Orokin made.

 

 The Tenno learned to use it. They adapted their technology to what they found. 

 

 The neural parasites don't see us as allies because we are not its allies. It is a remnant of a dead people. The Orokin were wiped out, even in the void - their last hiding place.

 

 

 As for AI Lotus - we can't say. Not enough story yet. "We are your flesh" could just as easily be a shot at the fact that the Infested have absorbed parts of Humanity into its collective - as well as the fact that Warframes themselves are ALSO made from some of the same material that create the infested.

 

 I actually like to think the Warframe suits are a bit alive. Like a symbiote. It'd explain why they make use of Technocyte in their makeup. 

 

one little falw you have there....... if the primes are orokin made, and the neural parasyte is also orokin, why primes are also fired on sight by the controlled enemies?

 

Here's what i think:

 

According to the galvie's description "back in the times of the first tenno", that's refering to hayden, right?

 

If I'm not wrong, by that time, the technocyte plague was taking over, and hayden was also infected with it, but he assimilated it, granting him "abilities"...... now, following that order, we are infected with the technocyte.... The difference between the normal frames and the primes would be (IMO), that the  primes take some of the orokin technology to improve it's already existing "technocyte" abilities before the frame "grows" completely (that would be a good explanation for why we can't make primes from normal frames, they have to "born" prime). and also a fair enough reason for the orokin controlled enemies to attack and fear us (for grineer and corpus  too).... because to them, we are infected.

 

And the infested want to kill us, because they couldn't consume us, so currently we are he highest threat, the biggest obstacle to consume everything.

 

As for the lotus, i don't trust her....

Edited June 4, 2013 by lonelydrone

[BramBlackmon]

The ponderings of people on the forum based on extremely limited information that more than likely isn't being used as anything other than a means of stirring discussion about the actual behind the scenes story is always more interesting than what a writing team can actually come up with. you tell the story through game mechanics, and let people draw their own conclusions.

 

 

Though, the way cloning works in the real world, You can't just make a lot of copies of a DNA sequence artificially and gain the same results. The reason they're deteriorating it because eventually they're running out of healthy DNA stock, and they're having to gradually downgrade and use less desirable material. 

 

if purebred humans were DNA sequence A then all of the clones from batch A would inherit the problems of the original host, only slight intensified because of the lack of variety in the DNA sequence. Those negative traits that didn't activate in the original donor, have a chance of becoming active in the clones. A certain segment of batch A is going to have defects. Eventually you run out of batch A, and you pull batch B from the healthiest clone stock you have. the chances of those negative traits becoming active has now increased slightly. and the process repeats until you end up with the grineer. 

One of the most defining features of the grineer army is the wrinkles on their faces. This is due to the clones having accelerated aging because they've been cloned from adult and near adult samples so much.  By the time they realized what was happening, it would have been too late to seriously do anything about it because there are no good batches of DNA left at that point. Only clone DNA.  

 

this and many other details in their exact process ((I'm assuming artificially created eggs in artificial laboratory wombs., though they could just be growing vats of people with cells directly. Which would definitely accelerate their degradation.)) Mean they're losing their effectiveness as an army, the longer they draw out military operations.

 

This, to the tenno is good. Because the Tenno aren't generic heroes in some sci fi save the universe bulls##t story. They're soldiers, and the war they are fighting is one where the losing parties, cease to exist. There is no morality behind a Tenno's actions.They care about their own, but that's it. Behind those masks are the eyes of a hardened and indifferent killer, who will do anything he is ordered to do by his superiors. 

 

And if you want to argue against this ideal of them being indifferent killers, go and look at your own kill count, by race. If you've been playing for a month you've likely killed enemy troops in the tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands. and you never even gave it a pause to think about their feelings. You simply saw them as an obstacle in the way of completing your objective, and acted accordingly. This is exactly how the Tenno see their enemies on the battlefield.

Edited June 4, 2013 by BramBlackmon