Am I The Only One That Likes The Grind And Rng?

[Volt_Cruelerz]

TL;DR: well, you're probably just going to rage at me because of the title, but I have found use to the grind and believe that while the RNG isn't perfect and can be tweaked to be better, the idea of having drops determined by an RNG is something I like.

 

I keep seeing more and more threads pop up regarding the RNG and how there's too much farming in the game.  People have been complaining about how much time it takes to get all the components for the new weapons.  All the while, I've just been kinda looking on, wondering why?

 

You see, I don't think the grind is that bad actually.  See, I'm Mastery 6 right now (obviously this would be very different for someone with maxed out everything) and have access to all frames except Vauban (I haven't bothered to build Ash or Rhino yet, but I have all their components sitting around waiting for when I am ready for them).  I've got a lot of frames and weapons I really want to rank up and I know that it takes a lot of farming for the new weapons, so I've just kinda blocked out my time on farming for things so that I'll always be ranking up a new piece of equipment which I've come to find more and more entertaining.  Right now, here's my rank-up queue:

 

Frame: Excalibur Prime -> Saryn -> Trinity -> Vauban (if I get him by then) -> Ash -> Rhino

Primary: Paris -> Ignis -> Flux Rifle or Dera -> Ogris or Acrid

Secondary: Kunai -> Dual Broncos -> Sicarus -> Viper -> Dual Vipers

Melee: Furax -> Scindo -> Gram -> Dual Skana

 

So, just to rank all those things up, I'll be spending a lot of time grinding (I happen to like the grind) and have decided that I can farm for rare components while I'm at it.  There's no rush for things.

 

 

Likewise with the RNG, maybe I've just been blessed by it, but I imagine my experience is pretty normal.  I don't have an over-abundance of rare mods, but I do have at least a few core ones such as Split Chamber and 2x Cryo Rounds (one for me and one for my Sentinel).  At the same time though, I'm unlucky in the sense that I've killed the Stalker thrice now and he's never dropped a thing.  It took me around 60 runs to finally get all the Saryn parts for instance.  I know it's an RNG and I know there could be improvements done to it like how right now the RNG is saturated and doesn't really function as one would expect.  Obviously I'm for such a change, but radical overhauls just aren't something I feel are necessary.  

 

I mean, obviously I'd like to see drop rates adjusted on things and think that if we would just get fewer ability mods, we'd have the opportunity for far more equipment mods which might help people, but we're getting trading soon which provided you have a cooperative team, quadruples your chance of getting a desired mod if they don't already have it.  I just don't see why with some very reasonable changes to drop rates (like splitting up drop tables for bosses so that things don't prevent each other from dropping or the above changes) any big changes would actually be needed.

 

I really do want changes to the RNG, but not big changes.  Such subtle changes really would IMO impact players very positively and should help with the woes of farming for Control Modules or warframe blueprints.  I don't feel like it needs a token system and while I'd be fine with a "building guaranteed reward system" that periodically ensures you get a rare, I don't think these changes are necessary.  What we have now with some tweaks and the addition of trading will be just fine I believe.  I like the base implementation and do agree some changes need to be made, but they are minor.  An overhaul just isn't needed.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[austinrelis]

Nope.

 

I'm with ya.

[ELREYULTIMO]

I'm not sure the issue is with the grinding itself nearly as much as it is about there being no purpose for it. Grinding is a fact of life in any game with RPG elements, but right now, I only grind to get better/newer/shinier equipment to help me grind faster/more enjoyably (ideally) for more new stuff.

Edited June 5, 2013 by ELREYULTIMO

[Gogandantes]

I enjoy it.

[corpseshock]

Nope, like to grind too.

 

I just wish there would be more to grind for.

[Lumireaver]

I agree with your sentiment entirely. You have my +1.

 

A huge overhaul isn't necessary, but tweaking it so that, for example, only mods XYZ drop from location ABC (instead of everything dropping from everywhere) or so that alerts for two control modules, or a neurode start rolling out, that wold be appreciated.

[Tyroki]

I think you (the OP) need to find yourself a good Korean MMO then sir =P

 

Edit: I wouldn't mind the grind so much, but right now it's pretty harsh.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Tyroki

[Lumireaver]

I think you (the OP) need to find yourself a good Korean MMO then sir =P

 

D&D, the original dice rolling game, is not Korean. :-)

[Westmin]

I don't have a problem with the "grind" and I know there are some things to tweak/fix that will make the RNG issues much less significant. Starting with the whole hellfire fiasco...

I personally have built every single warframe and weapon in the game except for two of the Stalker weapons which he refuses to drop when I kill him.

My "grind" right now is leveling melee weapons while collecting resources for our clan dojo. It's frustrating at times (like when the Stalker refuses to come or drop blueprints, or the fact that after 260 hours I have yet to see a Hell's Chamber or Split Barrel), but I have been very lucky in other respects. I got everything I needed from void runs with only three duplicates on high-level components. So, it all evens out.

[Zhoyzu]

the grind isnt bad when using new stuff but as soon as you have done everything and are just farming for dojo it can get dull

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I think you (the OP) need to find yourself a good Korean MMO then sir =P

 

Edit: I wouldn't mind the grind so much, but right now it's pretty harsh.

lol :P

 

And I can agree that it can be, it's just that with the course we're on: small tweaks, trading, fixing defense drops so it's not just Hellfire, and splitting up drop tables so that they function independently for bosses so drops don't block each other, I think we'll be in a good place.  I just don't see a need to change course and head to a different port.  This ship we're on I believe has a good heading.  Sure, we'll encounter storms along the way and we'll have to patch her up now and then, but I believe she can make the trip.

[matrixEXO]

lol :P

 

And I can agree that it can be, it's just that with the course we're on: small tweaks, trading, fixing defense drops so it's not just Hellfire, and splitting up drop tables so that they function independently for bosses so drops don't block each other, I think we'll be in a good place.  I just don't see a need to change course and head to a different port.  This ship we're on I believe has a good heading.  Sure, we'll encounter storms along the way and we'll have to patch her up now and then, but I believe she can make the trip.

We need some musicians and/or booze and/or hookers on the ship though or it will get real boring sailing on the ship. Can't wait for the start of the "season" on Warframe. Hopefully, story and plot comes in at that time.

Edited June 5, 2013 by matrixEXO

[MisterG]

I know this may be radical, but playing the game isn't imho "a grind", though I'm with you on the RNG.

Grind is really where you "shoot ducks in a barrel" on some boring task because it helps you level up quicker than "playing the game".

When people here (and in most games these days) talk about playing the game as "the grind" it seems a bit silly and maybe a bit to destination oriented view of the world.

If playing the game is "the grind" then the grind will never stop until you stop playing the game - like people hooked on fruit machines, who win the jackpot only to put all the winnings back in.

Myself, like the OP and others I imagine, love playing the game. Sure I want stuff to play with, but it's the game that draws me in, not the prizes for me they just sweeten the deal

or is it just me ;)

[GrayFox]

While I do believe that most of us have established their own way of approaching Warframe as it is, I couldn't say I agree with your post as I can't oppose to it :) I'd say I applaud to how you see things as of now and it's a good change to read stuff like this. About the grind, it's never an issue.. well for me that is.

 

About the RNG, to a certain degree, it's not that of a hassle, but there times when you just want to get that specific mod, not of the outmost importance, but you just want to test it out with your build and it just doesn't show up. What I'm trying to share here is if it's RNG, frustrations will never be out of the picture but the RNG as it is, I wouldn't dare react on as I don't know any better. I'm leaving that for those with the knowledge on how to "improve" it, not for the good of some, but the community as a whole.

 

Keep it up, the way you look at this game and I don't need to ask if you're enjoying it, cause you already are I suppose ;3

[Ameretat]

Agreed tbf, I actually enjoy the grind. Still got most of my GM plat stashed up for no apparent reason, because grinding for stuff fills the time, y'know? Something to aim for. However, as mentioned they do need more things TO work towards...looking at the schedule for the next AM frame and based on the uhh..closing time of certain...things...(Can't say more, sorry) It's going to take a while. 

 

Just hope we get our reinforcements this friday!

[neKroMancer]

I think RNG and grinding is the backbone of RPG element progression. However, Warframe literally has nothing to accompany the grind. No narrative element, lack of mental challenge, and lack of true sense of progression. RNG and grind is good in moderacy. However, make everything tied to it and you got a recipe for disaster. Even older titles which relied heavily on RPG element use 'certainty' at some point.

Game must rewards the player periodically with both RNG and well-placed advancement in narrative that tied to specific reward. That's a way to properly utilize RPG element. A good example is older titile like FFVII which presented both RNG element through regular combat and narrative advancement/exploration that rewards player with certain rewards. Warframe is not 'there' yet. While the art design in Warframe is gorgeous, the lack of narrative and heavy dependent on RNG shows after 10-20 hours into the game when a player realize that there is nothing to do but a cycle of grind for new stuff > get new stuff > level up new stuff and look for new stuff to get and grind in the same time. RPG element isn't a good justification to relies on RNG this much. It should be a tool to bring good narrative experience and at the same time, justify a properly usage of RNG and Skinner box.

I hope they will utilize more RPG element in the future.

[Doremonhg]

Somewhat. Grinding is bad if you don't even have a goal, like grinding for multishot. It might take a day, or it might never drop at all. That's where RNG has negative effect on one's experience with the game. After all, we play the game to entertain ourselves, not play the game to rage over it.

 

Come to think about RNG, I managed to habor a deep hatred against it in my old day in Vindictus. I started at the same time as a lot of my friend, and by the time they made enough money from random drop to buy or craft end-game gear and actually enjoying the game, I was still trying desperately to pay my near-end-game gear's repair bill. Not to mention that I grind days and nights and they rarely get into the game.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Doremonhg

[Volt_Cruelerz]

I think RNG and grinding is the backbone of RPG element progression. However, Warframe literally has nothing to accompany the grind. No narrative element, lack of mental challenge, and lack of true sense of progression. RNG and grind is good in moderacy. However, make everything tied to it and you got a recipe for disaster. Even older titles which relied heavily on RPG element use 'certainty' at some point.

Game must rewards the player periodically with both RNG and well-placed advancement in narrative that tied to specific reward. That's a way to properly utilize RPG element. A good example is older titile like FFVII which presented both RNG element through regular combat and narrative advancement/exploration that rewards player with certain rewards. Warframe is not 'there' yet. While the art design in Warframe is gorgeous, the lack of narrative and heavy dependent on RNG shows after 10-20 hours into the game when a player realize that there is nothing to do but a cycle of grind for new stuff > get new stuff > level up new stuff and look for new stuff to get and grind in the same time. RPG element isn't a good justification to relies on RNG this much. It should be a tool to bring good narrative experience and at the same time, justify a properly usage of RNG and Skinner box.

I hope they will utilize more RPG element in the future.

Absolutely!  I'm not against the addition of lore, narrative, and certainly not more deeper content.  I support all those things.  It's just that the course I see this game taking is one I'm fine with and I believe we'll encounter all those things along the way.  I don't see need to deviate from our current trajectory.

 

 

Agreed tbf, I actually enjoy the grind. Still got most of my GM plat stashed up for no apparent reason, because grinding for stuff fills the time, y'know? Something to aim for. However, as mentioned they do need more things TO work towards...looking at the schedule for the next AM frame and based on the uhh..closing time of certain...things...(Can't say more, sorry) It's going to take a while. 

 

Just hope we get our reinforcements this friday!

Lol so I guess the "secret" wasn't the PS4 thing then?  And apparently AM won out?

Edited June 5, 2013 by Volt_Cruelerz

[3XT3RM1NATUS]

Maximum bootlick.

[MisterG]

I do think with games where randomness isn't "that" important (unlike say gambling) it would be nice to a few options like:

1) decreasing odds for randomness (ie. every time you get a base mod, your chance of a rare increases - but reset every time you get one)

or

2) The ability to pick which "rare" you want next - to increase it's likeliness on the next rare drop (like a joker card - so you can only have one at any time, but if a rare comes up you are 50% more likely to get the joker - or 25% etc)

or

3) The ability to respin all won mods for one rare (if you get more than 3) - or respin all for say 2 platinum so you have twice the chance

or

4) An option for need,greed or pass for each card in co-op

or

5) A card auction - maybe people could bid platinum from other users - this way free players can "earn platinum" and the devs don't loose out (and actually sell more platinum!

(thinking about it I like option 5 best ;) )

Edited June 5, 2013 by MisterG

[unmog]

In response to the title, let me see what Mr. Horse thinks shall we?

 

[Liquidushime]

I have Saryn...do you know what I did to get her? 

 

400+ runs of Sedna (For her systems ONLY) I spent five days passing out to sleep, so I could get her, and I am the kind of person that can only "Fun grind" I can't feel like I'm grinding or I quit games (which I was about to do on the day I got her) I'm getting want I want at a steady rate (Finally got Banshee yesterday, built her systems and helmet when I got them, and all I'm waiting for it her chassis before I have my 3 day wait.)

 

Since I don't have the platinum or room for other things that I might possibly want, I choose what I think is the most badass. I'll have Saryn, Ember, Nyx, and Banshee and hopefully the Glaive and Vauban (IF extremely lucky) That's all I can get, and it's really all I can actually make. I'm not the big clan type of person, so the clan weapons are out of my reach T_T

 

So I've decided on just the six things I want, then I'll just collect and build until I decide if I want to spend $5 on more sots and space xb 

[Excitonex]

I do think with games where randomness isn't "that" important (unlike say gambling) it would be nice to a few options like:

1) decreasing odds for randomness (ie. every time you get a base mod, your chance of a rare increases - but reset every time you get one)

or

2) The ability to pick which "rare" you want next - to increase it's likeliness on the next rare drop (like a joker card - so you can only have one at any time, but if a rare comes up you are 50% more likely to get the joker - or 25% etc)

or

3) The ability to respin all won mods for one rare (if you get more than 3) - or respin all for say 2 platinum so you have twice the chance

or

4) An option for need,greed or pass for each card in co-op

or

5) A card auction - maybe people could bid platinum from other users - this way free players can "earn platinum" and the devs don't loose out (and actually sell more platinum!

(thinking about it I like option 5 best ;) )

Number 5 would be interesting as long as they made a secondary version of plat that can't be traded or sold. This way people can't just flood the place with alt accounts and feed themselves plat.

[MisterG]

Number 5 would be interesting as long as they made a secondary version of plat that can't be traded or sold. This way people can't just flood the place with alt accounts and feed themselves plat.

You're right, they would have to think of it carefully.

Hopefully, no-one could flood the place with plat, as someone has to buy it, so if they buy it to give to an alt, it still got bought.

[ra9una]

RGN is cool, though I think that's DE could make it a little more generous.