Jordas Verdict Trial Feedback - Successes And Suggestions

[Socialisk]

Browsing through the forums, I don't see a lot about this, though I'll admit I'm sure to have missed something. Judging by the prices of the rewards on the market, though, not a lot of people are playing the Jordas Verdict (JV). Parts of JV are very enjoyable; others, a slog, or frustrating. This post is based on the experiences I've had with it the few times I've run it and based on what impressions I've heard from clan-mates and a few others.

 

Successes

First, I can tell that a lot of effort went into designing the levels and mechanisms. While most objectives in Warframe missions are a repetitive, mindless "defend this object" or "kill this thing", the objectives in JV are engaging. Buttons need to be shot simultaneously, vaporizers are an interesting and new mechanic used to solve puzzles, as are esophages. The new mechanics all interact to allow players to solve interesting puzzles, that, through excellent level design, are difficult but fun to solve. They remind me a bit of Zelda dungeons, though obviously requiring a lot more teamwork. These are cool, novel, and you feel good after figuring them out.

 

The new mechanics--esophages and vaporizer bubbles alike--would be neat to see in other missions, perhaps on Eris. It could lead to entirely new mission types, like how Hive is a totally different type of sabotage, and interest players that like a slower-paced, exploration-focused mission type.

 

I would say that Part 1 and 2 are well done (though the elevator portion of part 2 runs into problems of not enough infested spawning), and they introduce the mechanics you'll need for the final stage (though it's possible to completely miss esophages). I especially enjoy the first archwing part of zooming around, blowing things up, hitting switches, and destroying key walls with spores. The elevator section in part 2 is neat too, offering a neat opportunity to combine parkour, guns, and the objective.

 

 

Suggestions

Problems

Part 3 has some more problematic components. The problem with making the inside of Jordas a dynamic, challenging puzzle that requires close observational skills and coordination is that it's extremely hostile to newbies, especially given that every aspect of what you're doing is on a timer--armor degradation, while a key component to making the mission challenging and more intense, also ends up a punishment for people who want to genuinely explore and figure out the puzzles in JV (part 3 especially). Given how important team coordination is too, and how critical timing is, more experienced mission runners are going to want to stay away from newbies. That, compounded with the already arduous barrier of needing to run JV without the key mission equipment the first time, means that JV is very difficult to get into. Judging from the few posts I've seen on JV, people who want to run the mission feel like there's too many barriers.

 

Another problem is batting spores into Jorda's head. This is rather annoying already because archwing melee was never designed around the possibility that you'd need to precisely knock around an object. While it makes for a challenge in Part 1, it becomes an utter slog in Part 3. Two or so people outside are forced to endlessly repeat the same task, experiencing none of the puzzle on the inside. While this allows for newbies to participate in an active role, it's boring--and frustrating, especially because they have no idea what's going on inside.

 

Problem summary: Part 3 especially is extremely hard, and that makes anyone new running it feel useless, excluded, or unnecessarily challenged. Spore batters get bored because their mission is repetitive and no-where near as engaging as the other team's mission.

 

Suggestions:

1. Have more interesting stuff to do outside Jordas. The best thing I can come up with is capturing Intercept-type objectives, which might disable key things or provide benefits to the inside team. Capture A to slow armor degradation, or B to increase enemy spawns inside, or C to make vaporizers last longer, or D to allow the Lotus to broadcast suggestions for a stuck team ("There may be a way to use the Esophages to your advantage"). Make it so you need two captured points to reverse engine charging, and make it so that active Intercept towers are constantly changing location (eg there are 8 total towers but only 4 active at a time). Spawn more outside enemies, but at a reasonable enemy level. This would provide interesting choices for the players--more players outside might provide more benefits, but then there's less inside to solve nerve puzzles. Newbies can participate in interesting ways, but experts at AW also could use cool builds to control several towers with 1-2 people. The reason I suggest intercept specifically is because frantically flying around to capture points is one of the most fun things I've done on missions like Caelus, and I think the changing defense objective that Uranus defense missions have is interesting and could also make intercepts more of a challenge.

 

2. Divide Jordas Verdict into a Regular and Nightmare version. JV as is is pretty much perfect for nightmare--make switches drain energy if you stand on them or something, but it pretty much is already as hard or harder than Law of Retribution Nightmare.

 

A normal version that had slower armor degradation, less complicated puzzles on part 3 (perhaps requiring a tad less teamwork), or more permanent vape bubbles to stand in, or more intuitive puzzle design would make the barrier into entry less odious. Slower armor degradation alone would mean that players new to JV would have a chance to explore and figure out the levels, rather that constantly panicking as their health-bar continuously and rapidly drops, negatively affecting their ability to contribute to the team. Normal might mean players can carry 3 or 4 antiserums instead of 2.

 

3. Incorporate some of the things you need to do in part 3 earlier. The idea that esophages can eat vaporizers, or that you need to shoot them to do certain things, or charge them up, or that you need to look through certain peepholes and shoot key objects, and the like are not at all obvious. Also, the electric esophages that hurt you and the objective-necessary esophages you can use having the same name is confusing. I think there's room in Part 1 and Part 2 to add more of the things you see in Part 3. Infested levels are also visually very noisy. There's so much going on, it's sometimes hard to tell what is interactive and what you need to do. Glowing objects, or more obvious buttons, or pulsing cables that lead from the console to the thing it messes with would do a lot to help make the puzzles more intuitive.

 

Suggestion Summary

1. Archwings outside of Jordas have more to do (or more interesting things to do), like Intercept objectives instead of spore-batting.

2. Split JV into a Regular and Nightmare version. Normal has less armor degradation or players carry more antiserum.

3. Clear up level design and have more obvious visual indicators of key objects. Possibly change earlier sections to have more esophage-eating and barrel exploding, or rename transportation esophages to something like "telephage" to distinguish them.

 

Reasoning

This will make it easier for new players to join in raiding, show off the interesting and excellent levels DE has crafted, and hopefully lead to the new mechanics finding their way into the base game to improve it as well.

 

Again, the exploration of the JV levels is fun. The puzzles are interesting, dynamic, and have cool mechanics I'd love to see more of. I offer the critiques as someone who has been extremely impressed with how Warframe has grown as a game, and who is excited to see how it will continue to do so.

 

I'd also love for other community members to chip in with their own experiences, frustrations, parts they liked most, and ideas.

[(PSN)Doctor-Blitz-]

Sorry to say but this Raid is dead without a major redesign. I love raids but I refuse to play this special one.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/583243-worst-raid-ever-jordas-verdict/

In the meantime I though to start again but nobody's is playing this. I'm MR 21 and in my clan we have a extremely high activity rate but no one is playing Jordas Verdict. So there is no reason to learn more about the mechanics because there is no one to play with.

[NeomanSeraph]

I'm the guy who organizes RAID CONTENT in Socialisk's Clan. I've run LoR normal and NM countless times and frequently take newbies through both.

I basically agree completely with what's written in the OP. I love parts 1 and 2, and I consider them a fantastic evolution of Warframe's gameplay. The mechanics synergize with each other very well, the constant Infested onslaught gels well with the armor degradation upkeep. Part 2's elevator is fantastic with our parkour system and its vertical configuration. Part 1's AW section is clever too, offering an interesting challenge while involving everyone and giving them a job to do. I really can't praise either of them enough.

But part 3...yeah part 3 needs some work.

One of the easiest things to fix is just the raid's sign-posting. It's be really cool if DE gave the pressure plates glow, they are very small and blend in with the background a lot. Maybe have a hologram of Corpus lettering above them to show that they can be interacted with? This is especially necessary for the plates with the panels over them. Those are super easy to miss unless you know where they are in advance.
Same with the Esophages. Could you make them have different colours to show players where they lead? It would be a great way to explaining how to progress within the raid.

For the people outside Jordas, maybe give them additional targets to shoot. Like hitting a pulsing sac somewhere near Jordas would convey positive effects for the inner-Jordas Tenno. Like bursting a sac would temporarily stop armor degradation or stun/hurt all the spawned Infested. The people inside Jordas could hunt out optional organs which control his attacks. Destroying those could temporarily disable Jordas' moves, which would make life easier for the crew outside Jordas.

It's legitimately a great raid with a lot of cool mechanics, but part 3 and the attunement process put a big damper over the experience.

[(PSN)Lord_Gremlin]

Honestly, I dislike the raid. It's boring puzzle bs again. Instead of intense fight. First section is just disgusting with simultaneous button shooting, barely any need to kill enemies in archwing. Inside part a bit better,  a bit more fun, but that's it.

Second part again idiotic puzzle and few enemies. Solved by fast nova, any looting frame and around 6 people with injectors boarding that elevator. 

Third part is worst. Outside is a boring minigame, which I handled alone multiple times. Inside is more puzzle bs. Mind it I've done it all a bunch of times and know the puzzles but still get confused because map is a convoluted mess.

Overall enjoyment close to zero. Well, shooting golem jet powered &#! is somewhat fun. It triggers arcane victory, does that mean his &#! is his head? Anyway, raids need redesign. Puzzles need to go. And we need a solo and 2 person option. 

[NeomanSeraph]

Okay. That's...an opinion, to be sure. I thoroughly disagree with it, but okay.

So what would your ideal JV redesign look like?

[(PSN)adrian80]

Good summary altogether.

Phase 3 is definitely what brings the raid down. The inside part has very counter intuitive design, and the outside part is just far too repetitive. Maybe just cutting it to 2 nerves would make it more tolerable.

Hoping that DE has taken some notes, so we'll get a more fun version of this raid some day.