I do not like the direction this game is taking.

[RagingGrizzly]

1 minute ago, Flirk2 said:

How nice of you to point that out. Shame you did not get to fight bursa when you were going through Jupiter for the first time.

I've seen MR3 players kill those bursas without a problem.

I went there with a karak (Without mods, besides the elemental mods to make magnetic and toxin) and I didn't have a problem

[Eredoc]

8 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

So you did not read any of my posts, or you did not get the "they kept spawning" that I reiterate again and again. I know when the enemy count is increased. I faced a juggernaut while exterminating with a loki. I have done a lot of corpus missions. But, pay attention please, never was there a time when the enemy to kill section was ticking like a freaking Geiger counter.

And the second part of your post was just epic. You were carried by a friend before the bursa happened, and did not feel challenged. So you are fine with increasing the difficulty across the board for those who want to experience the game on their own pace with no one to carry them.  Because logic.

My Post was not a response to your topic, it was a response to someone else in  the topic who had their own questions over the increasing enemy count, Please remain within your own discussions with people who have responded to your questions and not intervene with those that don't, As right now it seems as though you are viewing every reply that doesn't agree with you as some form of attack [At least, as far as I am concerned] as I answered the majority of this quote in a later post. I reapeat, as I am led to believe, Bursas spawn if the area is in the alert state as the Tac alert that introduced them implied this mechanic when I ran it.

And yes I do think that increased difficulty is good because it means people will have to react to situations and find out the solutions to the problems these changes bring and overall make the fights far more satisfying because you are relying on your own knowledge in that area. ALL form of games that has a fighting aspect in it has this element where the further you go into the game, the more difficult the enemies get, Warframe was too much of just "Walk in and shoot everything that moves" and I feel that bursas break that and make people realize that some enemies need to be hit from certain angles, I can't tell you how many people I have watch get frustrated as Sargas Ruk and Lt Lech Krill and rage quit from the mission because they believe the bosses are in some form of glitched state.

We learn through our mistakes, if you make a mistake and have yet to find a solution then you will keep on making mistakes [Attacking a Bursa from the front for example] if you get annoyed and quit the game before you realize the solution then you may not be ready for the grind, and majority of the content, that warframe has.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

You don't get 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut. You get infinite amount if bugged or at least 2 if everything's allright. And while we are looking at the stats

Juggernaut

infested 3500

ferrite armor 200

Do you still want 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut of the same level? :-)

 

YES, I'd much rather 10 enemies that I can destroy in seconds to 1 lvl 80+ Jugger that I can only damage during a small window and have to dodge 1 shot kill attacks from during the rest of the time. Go to the simulacrum and try it, maybe then you'll lose some of your smugness. Actually don't, cos then you'll make a thread whining about unkillable Juggernauts.

You also seem to still be complaining about endless spawning Bursa's and ignoring the tip I gave you. You realise I and many others played the same Sortie as you did right? DE didn't give you a different mission to ours and we all managed just fine? I encountered 5 Bursa's and wrecked them all, endless amounts did not spawn because I was smart enough to drop Air Support. You seem to be blatantly ignoring that and I think you're probably just trying to shoot these things normally and coming up against a wall.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Zilchy

[-CdG-Zilchy]

5 hours ago, Himodor said:

Well, considering I've been playing this a week I guess I'm qualified to chime in!

I first encountered a bursa on Jupiter I think, in a Sabotage mission that I was trying to find the exit from (yeah I get lost a lot). Then I found that I couldn't even scratch it so I chose the noble and super effective strategy of running away from it.

The second time was a defense mission where we were on wave 15 and doing fine when not 1 but 2 of them spawned in. To say they cleaned our clock was an understatement. They were ragdolling us with ease and all 3 of us were completely and pathetically ineffective for 5 odd minutes. I then twigged that they had less armour on the sides and back so I typed into chat "Hit them from the sides and rear". So all 3 of us split up and took them from different directions and, after literally using up every bit of ammo I had including my secondary pistol, we actually managed to kill them. I was in a Volt for the record.

This game is about learning as you go. Now you know what awaits you at wave 15, now it's up to you whether or not you gamble and choose to stick around that long, knowing the consequences. This doesn't limit your Starchart progression in any way as you only need to do 5 waves to complete the mission.

[Eredoc]

6 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

You also seem to still be complaining about endless spawning Bursa's and ignoring the tip I gave you. You realise I and many others played the same Sortie as you did right? DE didn't give you a different mission to ours and we all managed just fine? I encountered 5 Bursa's and wrecked them all, endless amounts did not spawn because I was smart enough to drop Air Support. You seem to be blatantly ignoring that.

Quick question: What ship are you using, Mantis or Liset?

[fakeBOSHI]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

I finally got home had dinner and now while I'm not hungry anymore and in no danger of spilling HCl all over the thread, I want to try and play the game again. So I'll try to be brief. Let's see if I'll manage.

So you did not read any of my posts, or you did not get the "they kept spawning" that I reiterate again and again. I know when the enemy count is increased. I faced a juggernaut while exterminating with a loki. I have done a lot of corpus missions. But, pay attention please, never was there a time when the enemy to kill section was ticking like a freaking Geiger counter.

And the second part of your post was just epic. You were carried by a friend before the bursa happened, and did not feel challenged. So you are fine with increasing the difficulty across the board for those who want to experience the game on their own pace with no one to carry them.  Because logic.

You agree? Thank the stars. And no I had problems with them spawning infinitely, and them appearing on low level missions. But not with bursa as a concept. Just their place and spawn mechanic.

I really don't know what are you talking about. I know how to deal with bursa. But let's see the stats.

Ambulas. The Pluto boss, you know,

Robotic = 2000

proto shield = 300

alloy armor = 200

Denial bursa, that you can encounter on any corpus planet at the moment and not necessary there will be only one in the room

Robotic = 2500

proto shield = 2400

ferrite armor = 350

Sapienti sat.

You don't get 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut. You get infinite amount if bugged or at least 2 if everything's allright. And while we are looking at the stats

Juggernaut

infested 3500

ferrite armor 200

Do you still want 10 bursa instead of 1 juggernaut of the same level? :-)

A human being is amazingly adaptive. But why would I need to adapt to something like that in a game?

It's been a while now. So it was reported a lot, I'm sure.

You are. And your input is most appreciated. I really don't get why there are so many people that seem to have lost memories of their early Warframe days. Some of them got carried and their early days could be quite short. But most did it by themselves.

The fact that the star chart becomes more and more difficult with new enemies introduction baffles me. They need a challenge? Alright. But why are they not advocating new high level nodes or new high level planets then? Why are they defending the obviously overpowered units on the nodes they did not even play for a year in most cases? The missions that are supposed to be challenging to a no mod load out?

Finally. Yes. Now we agree.

Of course they are not hard to kill. If you have the weapon and mods. The question is, if you have those, then what are you even doing on Jupiter in the first place and why are you looking for a challenge there?!

Right. Because you are awesome like that. We got it. Now meditate on the actual reason that you want the missions that you did for the first time when there were no bursa to have them. Because for now it seems like it was all handed to you. You never faced a bursa on Jupiter while you did not have a maxed vitality in your inventory.

This one made me laugh so hard....

I do hope I misunderstood. Please tell me that you are not talking about what I see on that screenshot you posted as a deliberately gimped loadout.

Maxed vitality and redirection on a level 30 ember prime, max vitality carrier prime, level 30 vulkar wraith with a syndicate mod on, and whatever else you have as secondary and melee there do not a gimped loadout make.

Even if you don't have anything for melee and secondary there, it's still far from a gimped load out for a 10 wave Jupiter mission. Bursa or no bursa.

 

It is not standing still that's a fact. You are going somewhere with a game if you up the difficulty on old missions.

Do you know the funny thing? Wiki you can fix. All those things are up to developers. And they seem to like it this way.

How nice of you to point that out. Shame you did not get to fight bursa when you were going through Jupiter for the first time.

 

I think I did not miss anyone? Sorry if I have.

Now let's see if I can play this game today.

I'm sorry if u took that as bragging, that wasn't the intention. The intention was to point out that you could outplay the bursas and that many people who complain that any given enemy is broken simply do not try other ways. The fault in many players minds it seems, is always with something external rather than internal. 

I will admit that I do use max survival mods but I also played against higher level bursas to try to compensate. If you could stop with the patronizing it would be appreciated.

As a few newer players have pointed out, they have been successful in dealing with these enemies. While a small sample, it shows that they are not as broken as to the point where they are impossible. 

[Flirk2]

1 hour ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I've seen MR3 players kill those bursas without a problem.

I went there with a karak (Without mods, besides the elemental mods to make magnetic and toxin) and I didn't have a problem

I see. So your experience is nothing? Magnetic and toxin is not without mods. you can't fit 3 11 drain mods without a catalyst or a forma.

But that's still beside the point. And the point is you are advocating making life in Warframe for everyone else difficult just because you don't find it challenging.

1 hour ago, Eredoc said:

My Post was not a response to your topic,

As you seem to think it's OK to ignore what I say on the topic... Just continue.

42 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

YES, I'd much rather 10 enemies that I can destroy in seconds to 1 that I can only damage during a small window and have to dodge 1 shot kill attacks from during the rest of the time. Go to the simulacrum and try it, maybe then you'll lose some of your smugness. Actually don't, cos then you'll make a thread whining about unkillable Juggernauts.

You also seem to still be complaining about endless spawning Bursa's and ignoring the tip I gave you. You realise I and many others played the same Sortie as you did right? DE didn't give you a different mission to ours and we all managed just fine? I encountered 5 Bursa's and wrecked them all, endless amounts did not spawn because I was smart enough to drop Air Support. You seem to be blatantly ignoring that and I think you're probably just trying to shoot these things normally and coming up against a wall.

You as well. There seem to be a lot of ignoring going around. I'm not going to caps, bold and italic anything. It's no use whatsoever. People seem to just ignore the text no matter what you do.

You think you could be able to destroy 10 level 70 bursa in seconds when they had problem with 1 juggernaut. OK. Simulacrum further.

For the last time just on the off chance you will bother to read this time.

I used Ordis life support. There was nothing to hack

When there was a lockdown. I hacked the alarms. Lockdown lifted. Hacked once more.

And the whole time bursa kept spawning.

It is a rather common bug. You did not encounter it? Consider yourself lucky.

But please don't assume I'm a total moron who can't add 2 and 2, can't use Ordis to hack the alarms, can't hack the alarms myself, or can't see the number in the upper left corner going up.

14 minutes ago, fakeBOSHI said:

I'm sorry if u took that as bragging, that wasn't the intention. The intention was to point out that you could outplay the bursas and that many people who complain that any given enemy is broken simply do not try other ways. The fault in many players minds it seems, is always with something external rather than internal. 

I will admit that I do use max survival mods but I also played against higher level bursas to try to compensate. If you could stop with the patronizing it would be appreciated.

As a few newer players have pointed out, they have been successful in dealing with these enemies. While a small sample, it shows that they are not as broken as to the point where they are impossible. 

You did not look through the stats I posted from the wiki? How is a normal enemy that spawns in pares and more on Jupiter and has more shields, health and armor than a Pluto's boss is not broken?

Don't answer that. Just meditate on the stats.

Not sure what you mean by patronizing. I get sarcastic with people who think that if they already gone through the university it's OK to introduce differential equations in junior school. Because they don't find the program of that school challenging enough.

Forgive me if I won't give such arguments much credit.

 

I rest my case. People that have no need to go through the starchart are arguing that the added difficulty in the form of stronger then a boss mob there is a good thing.

Edited February 26, 2016 by Flirk2

[fakeBOSHI]

It is not broken in the sense that the boss's stats are arbitrary and that bursas are not industructible. If it was broken, it would imply some sort of game mechanics or guidelines are not being followed. If u compare on stats alone a lvl 100 anything has better stats than ambulas.

I didn't say they weren't challenging. I even admitted that I've died to them enough that all 4 revives would be burned in some cases. I explicitly said this was ok. 

It is patronizing based on the definition of the word. I was respectful to u throughout the discussion but u responded with sarcasm as if my response was below u. U are free to give feedback as u like and ignore the ideas of others. If u don't like my opinion, I can stop giving them. Enjoy the game.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Eredoc said:

Quick question: What ship are you using, Mantis or Liset?

Liset.

 

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

You as well. There seem to be a lot of ignoring going around. I'm not going to caps, bold and italic anything. It's no use whatsoever. People seem to just ignore the text no matter what you do.

You think you could be able to destroy 10 level 70 bursa in seconds when they had problem with 1 juggernaut. OK. Simulacrum further.

For the last time just on the off chance you will bother to read this time.

I used Ordis life support. There was nothing to hack

When there was a lockdown. I hacked the alarms. Lockdown lifted. Hacked once more.

And the whole time bursa kept spawning.

It is a rather common bug. You did not encounter it? Consider yourself lucky.

But please don't assume I'm a total moron who can't add 2 and 2, can't use Ordis to hack the alarms, can't hack the alarms myself, or can't see the number in the upper left corner going up.

No I don't think, I KNOW I can destroy lvl 70 Bursa's in seconds, 10 would not be a problem, CC generally affects all units not one. The Juggernaut however can be a real handful. As I said, try it and see instead of quoting your precious stats.

I know there's nothing to hack, I didn't hack any alarms, that's what I'm trying to tell you. Air Support hacks for you and prevents lockdowns so I call BS that you used it, I'm assuming you are using a Mantis? Use the Liset instead, Mantis does not do what I'm saying, it gives you a health station instead. Only Liset will disable lockdowns for you so likewise, don't assume I'm a moron, I'm trying to help you not encounter this "bug" again. But since you won't take my word for it:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Air_Support_Charges

Edited February 26, 2016 by Zilchy

[-CdG-Zilchy]

45 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

I see. So your experience is nothing? Magnetic and toxin is not without mods. you can't fit 3 11 drain mods without a catalyst or a forma.

But that's still beside the point. And the point is you are advocating making life in Warframe for everyone else difficult just because you don't find it challenging.

Pot meet kettle. So you're saying it's fine to whine that the game is too hard but god forbid anyone who actually enjoys a unit that doesn't die if we sneeze too hard and wants an occasional challenge because they find the game too easy? Hypocrisy much?

[TheLexiConArtist]

2 hours ago, Flirk2 said:

This one made me laugh so hard....

I do hope I misunderstood. Please tell me that you are not talking about what I see on that screenshot you posted as a deliberately gimped loadout.

Maxed vitality and redirection on a level 30 ember prime, max vitality carrier prime, level 30 vulkar wraith with a syndicate mod on, and whatever else you have as secondary and melee there do not a gimped loadout make.

Even if you don't have anything for melee and secondary there, it's still far from a gimped load out for a 10 wave Jupiter mission. Bursa or no bursa.

Don't worry, you misunderstood. That screenshot was strictly done as an afterthought to check on what level the Bursas actually spawned on the tenth wave. Maybe at 15 it would have been the 22-23 you suggested, though. Weapons would be completely irrelevant anyway, I mean, it's Ember in low level content. Even the Bursas die to a little dancing-around with WOF running.

The tests I mentioned were all done in the Simulacrum, so with maximum enemy grouping of the trio (which definitely works in the Bursas' favour) and no capacity to split them up or retreat tiles away. Weapon used, a Strun Wraith with 25 mod capacity, didn't even have Point Blank in it because I wasn't paying attention while levelling it up at the time I decided to run the tests.

I used no corrupted mods, no Prime warframes, no mod drain over 30 to account for new players' lack of potatoes to go around. It was a waframe ability function check more than anything, but it would be a pointless excuse of a test of what advantages abilities can give, if I were using something that could oneshot the Bursas with a single clean chance at the hack-panel.

[RagingGrizzly]

1 hour ago, Flirk2 said:

I see. So your experience is nothing? Magnetic and toxin is not without mods. you can't fit 3 11 drain mods without a catalyst or a forma.

But that's still beside the point. And the point is you are advocating making life in Warframe for everyone else difficult just because you don't find it challenging.

I used 2 11 drain and one 7. It did fit.

Don't try to make it out that all new players can't kill the bursas, it's more like you can't or you find it too difficult. Like I've said, I've seen MR1-5 kill them without a problem. But I guess it's per person, because I see MR10+ complain about not being able to kill them once in a while.

[Flirk2]

24 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

No I don't think, I KNOW I can destroy lvl 70 Bursa's in seconds, 10 would not be a problem. The Juggernaut however can be a real handful. As I said, try it and see.

I know there's nothing to hack, I didn't hack any alarms, that's what I'm trying to tell you. Air Support hacks for you and prevents lockdowns so I call BS that you used it, I'm assuming you are using a Mantis? Use the Liset instead, Mantis does not do what I'm saying, it gives you a health station instead. Only Liset will disable lockdowns for you so likewise, don't assume I'm a moron, I'm trying to help you not encounter this "bug" again. But since you won't take my word for it:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Air_Support_Charges

Do you even read? Sorry but you are making me wonder.

I don't have anything but liset. Please read the fine post before calling BS and so on. Please read what I wrote not what you think I meant. Or what you think I did.

25 minutes ago, Zilchy said:

Pot meet kettle. So you're saying it's fine to whine that the game is too hard but god forbid anyone who actually enjoys a unit that doesn't die if we sneeze too hard and wants an occasional challenge because they find the game too easy? Hypocrisy much?

I am a hypocrite for trying to point out that increasing the difficulty of existing missions is unneeded and unfair? Right. That's hypocrisy now.

Calls for a challenge on Jupiter from people that enjoy bursa is not a hypocrisy. Do me a favor and look up what hypocrisy actually means please. Because I did after you called my concerns hypocritical. Just on the off chance that I suddenly traveled to the other dimension where words have different meanings.

34 minutes ago, EDYinnit said:

Don't worry, you misunderstood.

Thank Lotus for that.

I miss the point completely on why do you think testing something in simulacrum will reveal all the problems with actual missions.

You don't have infinite spawn bug in simulacrum as far as I know. You set the level on which something spawns. And so on. And you even can't exit the simulacrum any other way than abandoning mission. The very thing that irked me the most in the first place. :-)

And no one that advocates difficulty seems to understand the simple truth that experience counts. You can't simulate the frustration a new player would feel when first faced with the bursa. It has all the markings of a boss. Special attacks, directional immunity to hits, a ton armor, health and shields. More that some of the actual bosses, in fact. And it's a common enemy that can spawn in pares and more.

If you operate under the assumption that I am against any new enemies on principle, you are wrong. I leave it to developers to do what they think best. But I'm really tired of pointing out that the missions that are low level should stay as they are.

New enemies should be added on the new missions. Higher level missions that no starting player in their right mind will go. Similar to the batalysts and conculysts that appear only on tiles that you have to complete the Second Dream quest to even see.

But even then extermination that can get infinite number of enemies is a broken thing. It it not supposed to be this way. And it is not this way with juggernauts. You don't have 10 juggernauts spawn one after the other, do you? And you don't even get one juggernaut on any dark sector infested missions as far as I know. Not on Uranus, that's for sure. And not even on Ceres. What's more. I did not see a juggernaut spawn on an infested defense sortie. But that was probably before the bursa.

 

13 minutes ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

I used 2 11 drain and one 7. It did fit.

Don't try to make it out that all new players can't kill the bursas, it's more like you can't or you find it too difficult. Like I've said, I've seen MR1-5 kill them without a problem. But I guess it's per person, because I see MR10+ complain about not being able to kill them once in a while.

You did not read what I wrote did you? Or did you skip half the text? I do not even complain. I am just pointing out that it's a bad move to increase the difficulty of  star chart. Just because some players finished it. There will be new players that will be put in a disadvantage. But to do that in a way that adds a mob that is more durable then a planet boss is just plain insulting.

Did you ever played doom with idkfa? After you completed it normally? Do you think the first level should have an increase in difficulty now? Because there is nothing there that could withstand a shot from BFG?

That's what advocating difficulty from players that completed the starchart looks like to me.

Notice that they did not say. "There should be places that are higher level and spawn bursa because I like the challenge". They say "leave the Venus and Jupiter bursa alone. And let the noobs deal with it because I have no trouble and I saw mr3 that had no trouble. And those who have are lazy whiners".

[carnaga]

1 hour ago, Zilchy said:

No I don't think, I KNOW I can destroy lvl 70 Bursa's in seconds, 10 would not be a problem, CC generally affects all units not one. The Juggernaut however can be a real handful. As I said, try it and see instead of quoting your precious stats.

What build you use to destroy lvl 70 bursa in seconds? You are not prolly talking about 60 seconds but bit shorter time.

[RagingGrizzly]

2 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

You did not read what I wrote did you? Or did you skip half the text? I do not even complain. I am just pointing out that it's a bad move to increase the difficulty of  star chart. Just because some players finished it. There will be new players that will be put in a disadvantage. But to do that in a way that adds a mob that is more durable then a planet boss is just plain insulting.

Did you ever played doom with idkfa? After you completed it normally? Do you think the first level should have an increase in difficulty now? Because there is nothing there that could withstand a shot from BFG?

That's what advocating difficulty from players that completed the starchart looks like to me.

Notice that they did not say. "There should be places that are higher level and spawn bursa because I like the challenge". They say "leave the Venus and Jupiter bursa alone. And let the noobs deal with it because I have no trouble and I saw mr3 that had no trouble. And those who have are lazy whiners".

Finishing the starchart beforehand has nothing to do with newer enemy difficulty. 

Bursas that are more durable than the boss? That sounds stupid... 

What I'm saying here is that from first hand experience and being told so. Most newer players don't have much trouble with it.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

37 minutes ago, carnaga said:

What build you use to destroy lvl 70 bursa in seconds? You are not prolly talking about 60 seconds but bit shorter time.

There's plenty of ways to do it mate. The easiest by far that I tend to run in Sorties is Excalibur with decent range on my Radial Blind and then Exalted Blade to wreck them in just a few seconds. Using other frames that are common in Sorties, I tend to use Sancti Tigris with Corrosive or Radiation damage or Vaykor Hek(big puncture damage). Dragon Nikana works well also and most melee with a decent range. These weapons tend to kill in 1 or 2 shots on these Sortie level Bursa's. For other frames these tactics will work:

Frost - Freeze or Avalanche(high PWR STR will strip armour)

Nova - MP to slow them down to flank them and cause huge damage from your weapons.

Valkyr - Hysteria ignores knockdown and Paralysis opens them to finishers.

Rhino - Iron skin ignores knockdown, Stomp CCs them.

Loki - Invisible, stealth shots in back. Yet to try out Covert Lethality with a dagger on them.

Ash - Blade Storm wrecks them

Mag - Pull CCs them, Shield Polarize removes shield to finish them with weapons, Bullet Attractor works well too.

Ember - Accelerant Stun for CC.

Ivara - Sleep arrows

Trinity - EV for CC

Nekros - Terrify to turn them around for a shot in the back.

Mirage - Blind.

Always equip Coolant leak on your sentinel to slow down their turning speed and if jumping over or sliding past them to get a shot on their back, use bullet time to slow them down further and bring Air Support charges to prevent them from spawning endlessly. This is only gearing for high level Bursa's in Sorties, the lower level ones can be dealt with easily with minimal gear required.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Zilchy

[Flirk2]

1 minute ago, PUR3K1LL3R said:

Finishing the starchart beforehand has nothing to do with newer enemy difficulty. 

Bursas that are more durable than the boss? That sounds stupid... 

What I'm saying here is that from first hand experience and being told so. Most newer players don't have much trouble with it.

It has everything to do with new enemy difficulty. You can't say how you would feel if you had to do that now. But you are still adamant that missions that you went through ages ago should be more difficult now.

It is stupid that they are more durable then bosses but they are.

Did you make a poll for that?

[-CdG-Zilchy]

24 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

I am a hypocrite for trying to point out that increasing the difficulty of existing missions is unneeded and unfair? Right. That's hypocrisy now.

Calls for a challenge on Jupiter from people that enjoy bursa is not a hypocrisy. Do me a favor and look up what hypocrisy actually means please. Because I did after you called my concerns hypocritical. Just on the off chance that I suddenly traveled to the other dimension where words have different meanings.

No not for that, for telling someone else they shouldn't advocate for more challenge. You can't have your own opinion and yet disrespect someone else's. You can of course disagree with their opinion, which is another thing entirely. So in that vein, yes you are being hypocritical.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Zilchy

[RagingGrizzly]

Just now, Flirk2 said:

It has everything to do with new enemy difficulty. You can't say how you would feel if you had to do that now. But you are still adamant that missions that you went through ages ago should be more difficult now.

It is stupid that they are more durable then bosses but they are.

Did you make a poll for that?

I'm not saying that older planets should get a difficulty boost because most of the player base has finished it. I took an unmodded excalibur and unmodded tigris and took it down fairly quickly. (Did get killed by a null during a fight though...)

I'll have to test if you're correct. And which bursa? All bursas?

No poll, I just talked to people in-game.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

29 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Do you even read? Sorry but you are making me wonder.

I don't have anything but liset. Please read the fine post before calling BS and so on. Please read what I wrote not what you think I meant. Or what you think I did.

Yes I do read, do you? You said and I quote, that you "used Ordis life support". Ordis life support is dropped by the Mantis, not the Liset. So perhaps you should've been more careful in your wording and said "Air" support instead. That way I would not have come to the wrong conclusion.

Edited February 27, 2016 by Zilchy

[TheLexiConArtist]

10 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

Thank Lotus for that.

I miss the point completely on why do you think testing something in simulacrum will reveal all the problems with actual missions.

You don't have infinite spawn bug in simulacrum as far as I know. You set the level on which something spawns. And so on. And you even can't exit the simulacrum any other way than abandoning mission. The very thing that irked me the most in the first place. :-)

And no one that advocates difficulty seems to understand the simple truth that experience counts. You can't simulate the frustration a new player would feel when first faced with the bursa. It has all the markings of a boss. Special attacks, directional immunity to hits, a ton armor, health and shields. More that some of the actual bosses, in fact. And it's a common enemy that can spawn in pares and more.

I did the Sim testing for another thread - one bemoaning that it was impossible for most frames to handle a Bursa - it's just partly relevant to what you were saying as well, in sheer terms of whether a new player would have the tools to defeat the units as found on Venus or Jupiter. Gimped loadouts and added challenge of triple-threat at level 30 to combat the experience and power advantage I have as a long-time player.

I might not be able to simulate a new player perfectly - but the fact that a new player chimed in to say "Yes, it was tough, but I used a bit of initiative and came out victorious with some teamwork" speaks more volumes than any amount of testing I could do.

10 minutes ago, Flirk2 said:

If you operate under the assumption that I am against any new enemies on principle, you are wrong. I leave it to developers to do what they think best. But I'm really tired of pointing out that the missions that are low level should stay as they are.

New enemies should be added on the new missions. Higher level missions that no starting player in their right mind will go. Similar to the batalysts and conculysts that appear only on tiles that you have to complete the Second Dream quest to even see.

But even then extermination that can get infinite number of enemies is a broken thing. It it not supposed to be this way. And it is not this way with juggernauts. You don't have 10 juggernauts spawn one after the other, do you? And you don't even get one juggernaut on any dark sector infested missions as far as I know. Not on Uranus, that's for sure. And not even on Ceres. What's more. I did not see a juggernaut spawn on an infested defense sortie. But that was probably before the bursa.

You have some valid points, as do most topics that complain about the Bursa, but you're presenting them in ways that harm your argument by making it 100% criticism. "These are wrong at every level, remove them" is not really helpful.

Now, saying that they should be level locked - like their Grineer equivalent - that's valid. Their tendency to chain knockdowns, especially in groups - that's problematic. That repeated spawning bug, known and being looked at as far as I'm aware. Valid points, but lost in a sea of salt.

I'd venture that a new player would be capable of handling a level 10-16 Manic were they presented with one, even though they have just as many quirks that make them better than some bosses. (For the record, Ambulas is old news and long overdue for a rework anyway.) They just don't have to - and without tanky mods fitted, or allies to pick them back up, that tackle and beatdown move the Manic has would be just as threatening to a solo player.

 

Like the other user said - Juggernauts are enormously more difficult to deal with than Bursas. 90% damage reduction except for small windows in between large AOE bursts of damage and poisoning of a sizable zone, and a tendency to hide their weak spot with many CCs instead of exposing it. They're also appropriately more avoidable, especially in solo - you decide if you want to let them spawn or not.

[NezuHimeSama]

IMO, bursas should be a corpus juggernaut, but instead of "kill lots of corpus" it's "trip an alarm", and you get two random bursas.

They don't take as long to kill as juggernaut, but I find them far more threatening. Jugger is pretty predictable and if you keep an eye on it and shoot it's weak points, it doesn't usually have a chance to do anything but charge at you. It's more like fighting a bull. Bursas, on the other hand, move around unpredictably, have damage immunity for most of the front, and use frequent projectiles when at range. You can trick them out by jumping their close range attacks, but that heavily restricts your movement and is only effective against a single bursa. Definitely more challenging than juggernaut.

[Eredoc]

10 minutes ago, NezuHimeSama said:

IMO, bursas should be a corpus juggernaut, but instead of "kill lots of corpus" it's "trip an alarm", and you get two random bursas.

That pretty much is how Bursas are, Minus the two, instead it's one and it spawns at intervals while the level is "Alarmed" unless someone can provide evidence to show a bursa spawned whilst unalarmed.

[NezuHimeSama]

4 minutes ago, Eredoc said:

That pretty much is how Bursas are, Minus the two, instead it's one and it spawns at intervals while the level is "Alarmed" unless someone can provide evidence to show a bursa spawned whilst unalarmed.

I've had bursas spawn in on infinite missions in regular planets, and they spawn in plenty when unalarmed in sortie missions. There's also no notification of a bursa presence forewarning players of a threat when they next trip the alarms.

If they're supposed to be corpus juggers, they're currently completely broken.