SCOPE-CHIPS: an Expansion to Sniper Combos

[Rehtael7]

The sniper combo system in place currently was a great first step to really rewarding skill within players, but very few of the sniper rifles have decent combo timers and a flat damage bonus is often a moot point. I propose a more uniform combo system that helps define the role of each rifle. I've based each combo type on the focus schools, so each can be represented in a weapon's listed stats. Additionally, each sniper rifle's mod menu will now have a new icon above the normal mod list. Using a forma on the weapon can change its combo type, WITHOUT resetting the level of the weapon. New combo types can be unlocked by purchasing a scope-chip blueprint (or completed chip) of the respective school from the market. Each rifle will have its own default combo type, and once an additional combo type has been unlocked, the owner may switch between each unlocked type at will PER LOADOUT. Alternatively, an Exilus Adapter could be the item of choice to unlock more combo types, but only if DE wants to make this a bit more of a grind.

Scope Chip recipes:

Spoiler

Madurai

• 25,000 Credits
• 350 Oxium
• 25 Control Modules
• 1 Neural Sensor

Vazarin

• 25,000 Credits
• 1,500 Cryotic
• 25 Control Modules
• 1 Neural Sensor

Zenurik

• 25,000 Credits
• 5 Argon Crystals
• 25 Control Modules
• 1 Neural Sensor

Naramon

• 25,000 Credits
• 5 Neurodes
• 25 Control Modules
• 1 Neural Sensor

Unairu

• 25,000 Credits
• 10 Gallium
• 25 Control Modules
• 1 Neural Sensor

One thing to also fix is a bug which causes sniper rifles with punchthrough to count as multiple hits on the same target, (This has since been fixed) and with the new system, remove the combo benefits of multishot on a single target. so no more of one shot fired on a single enemy counting as 8 hits.

Madurai _{The focus of fire, destructive, rapid, emotionless, thoughtless. The Madurai combo type rewards rapid killing of enemies and punishes wasted time.}

• Spoiler

   

  • Gains 1 combo point for kills.
  • If no kill has been earned in 3 seconds, combo points will tick down at a rate of 1 point every 0.5 seconds.
  • Each tier of the combo counter increases base damage by 0.5x per tier.
  • Each scoped kill has a 5% chance to grant a +25% damage bonus for 10 seconds.
  • No penalty for missed shots.
  • No penalty for unscoped shots.
  • Assists will NOT contribute to the combo counter, but they will reset the grace period.
  • While scoped, the edges of the screen will turn a blood red color as the combo counter goes up.

   

Vazarin _{The focus of water. To cleanse, heal, move with the enemy and counter. The Vazarin combo type is easy to build up, and fast to fade.}

• Spoiler

   

  • Gains 1 combo point for assists.
  • Gains 1 combo point for hitting a target.
  • Gains 1 combo point for kills.
  • Missed shots remove 50% of the combo points.
  • If no points have been earned in 3 seconds, combo points will tick down at a rate of 1 point every 0.5 seconds.
  • Each scoped kill has a 5% chance to grant a 0.1% lifesteal bonus for 5 seconds.
  • Each scoped kill has a 25% chance to drop a health orb.
  • Each tier of the combo counter grants +5% maximum health and 0.05% lifesteal.
  • Unscoped shots have no effect.
  • While scoped, the edges of the screen will start to ripple slightly with a watery effect as the combo counter goes up.

   

Zenurik _{The focus of metal, cunning, dominating, ruthless, methodical. The Zenurik combo type rewards stealth kills and punishes frontal combat.}

• Spoiler

   

  • Gains 3 combo points for killing unalerted enemies.
  • Missed shots remove 100% 75% of the combo points.
  • Shooting an alerted enemy removes 2 combo points.
  • Gains 1 combo point for hitting an enemy which is not focused on you. (Has aggro on any other target)
  • Gains 1 combo point for killing an alerted enemy.
  • Unscoped shots have no effect.
  • If no points have been earned in 10 5 seconds, the combo points will tick down at a rate of 1 point every second.
  • Each tier of the combo counter grants +0.3 Punchthrough, +20% Critical chance, +20% Status Chance and +0.2x Damage.
  • Each scoped kill has a 10% chance to turn the user invisible for 4 seconds.
  • While scoped, enemies will glow with a faint silver outline which becomes brighter as the combo counter goes up.

   

Naramon _{The focus of wood. To know the enemy's weaknesses and strengths, to exploit vulnerabilities. The Naramon combo type rewards headshots and punishes missed shots.}

• Spoiler

   

  • Gains 5 combo points for headshots.
  • If no headshot has been earned in 5 seconds, combo points will tick down at a rate of 1 point every second.
  • Bodyshots have no effect.
  • Unscoped shots remove 1 combo point but have no effect on the grace period.
  • Each tier of the combo counter reveals enemies' positons through walls starting at 25 meters, increasing by 5 more meters per tier.
  • Each scoped headshot has a 2 10% chance to grant a free scan of the target, even if the target is still alive and even if the target has already been scanned.
  • While scoped, the edges of the screen will emit soft, green pulses which increase in frequency as the combo counter goes up.

   

Unairu _{The focus of earth. To prolong, to endure, to outlast. The Unairu combo type rewards landing hits and punishes missed shots.}

• Spoiler

   

  • Gains 1 combo point for a hitting a target.
  • Gains 1 combo point for assists.
  • No penalty for unscoped shots.
  • A missed shot will remove 50% of the combo points.
  • Loses 1 combo point every 3 seconds.
  • For each tier of the combo counter, reload speed is increased by 20%.
  • Each landed hit has a 2% chance of giving the user 1 ammo pickup.
  • While scoped, a golden shimmer will emit from the edges of the screen, becoming brighter as the combo counter goes up.

   

Default scope types for current rifles:

Vulkar family - Madurai _{As this is used by Grineer Ballistas, it's used in ruthless, frontal combat, designed for follow-up shots as opposed to being geared toward skillful marksmen.}

Rubico - Zenurik _{Given that the Rubico has only long-range scope settings and is crit-focused, it is ideal as a long-range assassination tool.}

Vectis family - Vazarin _{Due to the Vectis and Vectis Primes' short reload, they have ability to keep the Vazarin counter going.}

Lanka - Naramon _{The enemy revealing attribute of the Naramon combo mixes well with the 5m innate punch of the Lanka.}

Snipetron family - Unairu _{Because it's what's left.} 

 

Edited July 22, 2016 by Rehtael7
Made some changes to Zenurik to allow a more flexible playstyle, changed the unlock system for combos, changed Vazarin to be more healer-oriented.

[Rehtael7]

And if anyone has questions or problems with the balancing, feel free to bring them up.

[Rehtael7]

Update: added in which combo types go with which rifles.

[voltocitygel]

Cool idea, and I love it. The one issue I see is the visual effects. They're inconsistent. Zenurik adds a useful additional effect until the glow is so bright you can no longer see the target. The rest add a cool visual effect that could potentially distract the sniper, making the next shot increasingly difficult to make. I'm not complaining, as Mesa's peacemaker and Valkyr's hysteria do the same thing, and with such powerful effects it makes sense to give an effect that increases the difficulty as you go on. The issue is Zenurik's being a buff of sorts while the rest are just cool and/or distracting.

[Rehtael7]

7 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

Cool idea, and I love it. The one issue I see is the visual effects. They're inconsistent. Zenurik adds a useful additional effect until the glow is so bright you can no longer see the target. The rest add a cool visual effect that could potentially distract the sniper, making the next shot increasingly difficult to make. I'm not complaining, as Mesa's peacemaker and Valkyr's hysteria do the same thing, and with such powerful effects it makes sense to give an effect that increases the difficulty as you go on. The issue is Zenurik's being a buff of sorts while the rest are just cool and/or distracting.

Zenurik actually helps you see enemies. I was planning on giving it the exact same visual effect as Warcry's Debuff (Only a different color) So this not only helps you see targets in the dark, but it should bring out the head and make it easier to hit.

[voltocitygel]

On April 7, 2016 at 0:15 PM, Rehtael7 said:

Zenurik actually helps you see enemies. I was planning on giving it the exact same visual effect as Warcry's Debuff (Only a different color) So this not only helps you see targets in the dark, but it should bring out the head and make it easier to hit.

Exactly what I was saying. The other visually seem to be just there, whilst Zenurik is helpful. Not that I mind. I would totally use Zenurik on all my snipers if they decided to add this :P

[Rehtael7]

15 hours ago, voltocitygel said:

Exactly what I was saying. The other visually seem to be just there, whilst Zenurik is helpful. Not that I mind. I would totally use Zenurik on all my snipers if they decided to add this :P

Right. Part of it was a question of how to give a metallic look in the scope, but as this is the stealth-style combo type, I figured that one which gives an actual advantage may be both useful and visually pleasing/ distinct.

[Rhekemi]

First, I do not like snipers in WF unless they cause things to explode (I'm defining those by sniper ammo only). I've yet to dedicate any time to learning how to use the more traditional sniper rifles. I'll get around to it sometime. (Should give me something to do, anyways.)

That said, the proposed system itself is good. 

I didn't follow your logic on this:

Using a forma on the weapon can change its combo type, WITHOUT resetting the level of the weapon.

And when I want to simply forma the weapon for more mod points, how will the game deal with this?

Maybe try something like:

-fully ranked weapon unlocks combo type
-forma (to add more mod slots) also adds a secondary combo type
-exilus adapter adds an additional combo type

This way, the combo types are in addition to the original purpose of forma and exilus. With the change to forma to account for MR, resetting the weapon's level isn't as much of a pain now, and I don't think you'd need to worry about it.

The individual schools, if I were into snipers, seemed to give me a good balance of risk/challenge and reward, except for these two: Unairu and Vazarin.

Bodyshots and assists are aren't always intended. If I were a sniper, there'd be no appeal for me to pull off bodyshots when I could be contributing solid, clean kills to the group. Even if bodyshots killed the enemy. Deliberately trying for them to keep my combos rolling isn't appealing (imo).

Assists I'm much more prone to do intentionally if an ally is struggling, mobbed, or about to go down. The problem is I don't know many maps or missions that afford a sniper's nest for me to lay down supportive assist kills. 

Which is why I've so far stayed away from snipers in WF. WF isn't a traditional combat game so their role seems...kind of moot, to me. Yeah, I know they're here to stay and many love them. Giving them combos and great stopping power, making them a challenge with high rewards and a mark of skill is good. But it will never change the fact that our roles as Tenno snipers aren't comparable to that of a Grineer or Corpus sniper (who attack from range and/or cover).

I could work hard at finding cover and range and sniping, but unless it makes things go boom, I tend not to use them for more than level fodder. (But that's slowly changing due to sniper only sorties.)

[Rehtael7]

8 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

First, I do not like snipers in WF unless they cause things to explode (I'm defining those by sniper ammo only). I've yet to dedicate any time to learning how to use the more traditional sniper rifles. I'll get around to it sometime. (Should give me something to do, anyways.)

That said, the proposed system itself is good. 

I didn't follow your logic on this:

Using a forma on the weapon can change its combo type, WITHOUT resetting the level of the weapon.

And when I want to simply forma the weapon for more mod points, how will the game deal with this?

Maybe try something like:

-fully ranked weapon unlocks combo type
-forma (to add more mod slots) also adds a secondary combo type
-exilus adapter adds an additional combo type

This way, the combo types are in addition to the original purpose of forma and exilus. With the change to forma to account for MR, resetting the weapon's level isn't as much of a pain now, and I don't think you'd need to worry about it.

The individual schools, if I were into snipers, seemed to give me a good balance of risk/challenge and reward, except for these two: Unairu and Vazarin.

Bodyshots and assists are aren't always intended. If I were a sniper, there'd be no appeal for me to pull off bodyshots when I could be contributing solid, clean kills to the group. Even if bodyshots killed the enemy. Deliberately trying for them to keep my combos rolling isn't appealing (imo).

Assists I'm much more prone to do intentionally if an ally is struggling, mobbed, or about to go down. The problem is I don't know many maps or missions that afford a sniper's nest for me to lay down supportive assist kills. 

Which is why I've so far stayed away from snipers in WF. WF isn't a traditional combat game so their role seems...kind of moot, to me. Yeah, I know they're here to stay and many love them. Giving them combos and great stopping power, making them a challenge with high rewards and a mark of skill is good. But it will never change the fact that our roles as Tenno snipers aren't comparable to that of a Grineer or Corpus sniper (who attack from range and/or cover).

I could work hard at finding cover and range and sniping, but unless it makes things go boom, I tend not to use them for more than level fodder. (But that's slowly changing due to sniper only sorties.)

The act of unlocking other combo types consumes a forma, it has no connection to forma-ing the weapon normally. Imagine affixing a focus lens, it's about the same.

A bodyshot combo type is one for people who struggle with headshots, but enjoy sniping. Assist kills are for all the times when you land the first shot on a target, but before you can even follow up, your teammates finish them off (Happens to me often).

The sniper combo system redifines the role of a sniper as a true high-damage weapon. It's a boss killer weapon when you build up the combo, and great for when enemies scale to the point when you need a power weapon to deal with the larger threats.

[Rhekemi]

Yes, I understood your presentation with regards to forma. I'm saying I don't see a reason for it and it should retain its original purpose while unlocking the combo.

Why wouldn't we kill two birds with one stone?

And I don't think players will be happy it consumes a forma without giving them more mod points. I know I'd be unhappy.

The justifications for those two schools make perfect sense now. Okay. (But the limitations of effective sniping you're compensating for with them are still glaring: WF does not believe in cover, or staying immobile for long [though it can be decent/great with some range weapons] yet it has sniper rifles.)

I like your system, and the one DE is using...despite my feelings on DE working around, and not addressing, the underlying issue.

Maybe my mind will change when I use them more.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Rhekemi

[Virotoxic]

i get that you want to reward stealth with zenurik but punishing the player for hitting an alerted enemy is a bit harsh

[Rehtael7]

1 hour ago, Virotoxic said:

i get that you want to reward stealth with zenurik but punishing the player for hitting an alerted enemy is a bit harsh

I'll consider an adjustment to the Zenurik to make it more flexible.

[Rehtael7]

2 hours ago, Rhekemi said:

Yes, I understood your presentation with regards to forma. I'm saying I don't see a reason for it and it should retain its original purpose while unlocking the combo.

Why wouldn't we kill two birds with one stone?

And I don't think players will be happy it consumes a forma without giving them more mod points. I know I'd be unhappy.

The justifications for those two schools make perfect sense now. Okay. (But the limitations of effective sniping you're compensating for with them are still glaring: WF does not believe in cover, or staying immobile for long [though it can be decent/great with some range weapons] yet it has sniper rifles.)

I like your system, and the one DE is using...despite my feelings on DE working around, and not addressing, the underlying issue.

Maybe my mind will change when I use them more.

I understand the concern with forma-ing, I'm just not one to introduce new resources if it's not needed. I'll consider giving that one another pass.

And sniping is still very effective without the use of cover or immobility. I've often found myself gliding through the air and landing headshots on bombards while my team deals with everything closer by.

[Rehtael7]

Updated. Additions are underlined, subtractions are struckthrough.

[Rehtael7]

New title

[Kinetos]

I am way too tired to read this, but it looked interesting so I'll read it sometime.

[Rehtael7]

12 hours ago, KinetosImpetus said:

I am way too tired to read this, but it looked interesting so I'll read it sometime.

That's fair. Any feedback is good feedback.

[CounterOne]

Welp! I just want to make sure you remember that these guns have long reloads and Impossible to land hits in rapid succession within just .5 seconds.

I just feel everyone here forgets that reloading would cause them to loose all stacks if not most of them. In fact it seems you made these stats with the Vectis in mind like the Devs when they first thought of the scope thing. Not trying to sound mean you know. But I really think the Grace peroid per shot should be higher for those of us who can't aim that quick let alone reload.

[Rehtael7]

14 minutes ago, CounterOne said:

Welp! I just want to make sure you remember that these guns have long reloads and Impossible to land hits in rapid succession within just .5 seconds.

I just feel everyone here forgets that reloading would cause them to loose all stacks if not most of them. In fact it seems you made these stats with the Vectis in mind like the Devs when they first thought of the scope thing. Not trying to sound mean you know. But I really think the Grace peroid per shot should be higher for those of us who can't aim that quick let alone reload.

Uhhh... That's kind of the point of this thread. If you'll look closely, each combo type has a rate of decay for the combo counter. And this thread was created BEFORE harkonar scope which extends the combo timer by 12 seconds. Ideally, with the scope-chips, Harkonar scope won't even need to exist.

[Kinetos]

On 3/7/2016 at 9:33 PM, Rehtael7 said:

Snipetron family - Unairu _{Because it's what's left.} 

Lol

 

Feedback: Having recently tried out Harkonaar Scope, the current miss penalty is too punishing, especially when NPC's have infinite acceleration and change direction randomly, or when allies kill your target or block your shot right when you shoot. 

I was never a fan of the combo system being added to snipers, instead I think they should have had their crit chances doubled, but if it's here to stay I would support this concept. 

[Rehtael7]

1 minute ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Lol

 

Feedback: Having recently tried out Harkonaar Scope, the current miss penalty is too punishing, especially when NPC's have infinite acceleration and change direction randomly, or when allies kill your target or block your shot right when you shoot. 

I was never a fan of the combo system being added to snipers, instead I think they should have had their crit chances doubled, but if it's here to stay I would support this concept. 

I think that combos are a great way to make snipers a distinct class of weapons. Unlike all other ranged weapon classes they become more powerful the better you do. When enemies start scaling a ton, that scaling damage really shines and makes sniper rifles THE priority-target-eliminators that they are in other games. At least, in theory. When you miss currently that theory goes out the window, hence me wanting to see sniper combos be a bit more flexible. And since everyone has something different they want out of sniper combos, I think that giving a choice of five makes sense.

[Kinetos]

19 minutes ago, Rehtael7 said:

I think that combos are a great way to make snipers a distinct class of weapons. Unlike all other ranged weapon classes they become more powerful the better you do. When enemies start scaling a ton, that scaling damage really shines and makes sniper rifles THE priority-target-eliminators that they are in other games. At least, in theory. When you miss currently that theory goes out the window, hence me wanting to see sniper combos be a bit more flexible. And since everyone has something different they want out of sniper combos, I think that giving a choice of five makes sense.

Distinct weapon class that rewards skill, that's true. And I don't see it going away so I support improvement. 

My personal preference though would be that a sniper rifle would be an effective assassin's tool, where you sneak into say a rescue mission brig, and there are about 4 enemy heavies. Not enough to combo off, and combos may expire while you reposition, and you really want that stealth headshot to kill in 1 hit, but you've got 5 different kinds of rng preventing a reliable kill. Low crit chance (except Lanka), Multishot, scope sway, status, low accuracy (except Lanka), unscoped and moving accuracy penalty . During my test, I shot rubico at a red Veil infested at 1m range, scoped, aimed center mass, and he was immobilized by Rhino Stomp. The shot missed and reset the counter. 

In my perspective snipers currently don't reward for skill they punish very harshly for rng, which it looks like this concept is trying to fix. 

Edited July 29, 2016 by KinetosImpetus

[Rehtael7]

1 hour ago, KinetosImpetus said:

Distinct weapon class that rewards skill, that's true. And I don't see it going away so I support improvement. 

My personal preference though would be that a sniper rifle would be an effective assassin's tool, where you sneak into say a rescue mission brig, and there are about 4 enemy heavies. Not enough to combo off, and combos may expire while you reposition, and you really want that stealth headshot to kill in 1 hit, but you've got 5 different kinds of rng preventing a reliable kill. Low crit chance (except Lanka), Multishot, scope sway, status, low accuracy (except Lanka), unscoped and moving accuracy penalty . During my test, I shot rubico at a red Veil infested at 1m range, scoped, aimed center mass, and he was immobilized by Rhino Stomp. The shot missed and reset the counter. 

In my perspective snipers currently don't reward for skill they punish very harshly for rng, which it looks like this concept is trying to fix. 

I agree that I prefer the role of sniper rifles as the unseen assassin. Pretty much every fallout playthrough has always been stealth pistol and sniper rfile. But in Warframe, bows take that position, being inherently silent. Here, you may find this thread similarly interesting:

 

[Kinetos]

5 minutes ago, Rehtael7 said:

you may find this thread similarly interesting:

I did. 

[Rehtael7]

5 minutes ago, KinetosImpetus said:

I did. 

The problem with precision weapons in a modern Warframe is that they have a hard time standing up against all the high-damage automatic weapons that also have near perfect accuracy.When I need to get S#&$ done, I never pick the Rubico or the Vectis, or Paris Prime, or Dread because my Soma Prime is more flexible, my Quanta Vandal has more utility, my Secura Penta has... well it has a lot going for it, and my Sancti Tigris brings the brute force. And if I need damage that scales with the enemy, that's where my Prisma Cleavers come into play.

Systems like what I've proposed are REQUIRED to make low efficiency weapons like snipers and bows stand out.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Rehtael7