Saryn needs to be unnerfed

[ClinkzEastwood]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)COGSPARTAN117 said:

This post made my day. I lol'd uncontrollably as soon as I saw this. This is so true, and I'm definitely taking that pic. :D

Also, I feel like this video needs to be shown every time someone says Saryn does crazy high DPS, and that her kit is just fine the way it is.

 

Everytime someone post this video a math professor dies.

[ClinkzEastwood]

3 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

I feel like this needs to be said again but with a lanka added. If you've done any testing against an armored enemy in the simulacrum you'd know you're better off running a corrosive lanka because for the time spent you'll kill more heavies with headshots than you'd kill trashmobs with gas lanka +spore

My eyes must be deceiving me but I don't see any Staticor, Dual toxocyst, Strun Wraith, Braton Prime, Boar Prime, Daikyu in that picture.

[akira_him]

10 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

Sorry, but that video is kind of garbage and we already got our laughs out of it in this thread:

 

you don't need to understand its math, you need to understand in a controlled environment, exca excels in damage more than Saryn does
Saryn Miasma sucks in a controlled environment, how could it preform well in real situation

Besides this rework is a epic fail, DE want people to use not just 1 ability, but now people keep pressing 1 on their molt with a torid instead of keep pressing 4, almost nothing was changed

[ClinkzEastwood]

5 minutes ago, akira_him said:

you don't need to understand its math, you need to understand in a controlled environment, exca excels in damage more than Saryn does
Saryn Miasma sucks in a controlled environment, how could it preform well in real situation

Besides this rework is a epic fail, DE want people to use not just 1 ability, but now people keep pressing 1 on their molt with a torid instead of keep pressing 4, almost nothing was changed

Torid molt build deals terrible damage outside of normal starchart and is very immobile because it needs setup.

For majority of missions hikou build works much better.

[ThatOddDeer]

24 minutes ago, ClinkzEastwood said:

My eyes must be deceiving me but I don't see any Staticor, Dual toxocyst, Strun Wraith, Braton Prime, Boar Prime, Daikyu in that picture.

I wouldn't consider braton prime, dual toxocysts or daikyu to be spore monsters but staticor and strun wraith are certainly usable.

It's just that those 4 weapons are so often recomended it's what people tend to think of when they hear "spore build" because of their high fire rate and/or ability to pop all spores at once without any chance of failure.

 

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

1 hour ago, (PS4)COGSPARTAN117 said:

This post made my day. I lol'd uncontrollably as soon as I saw this. This is so true, and I'm definitely taking that pic. :D

Also, I feel like this video needs to be shown every time someone says Saryn does crazy high DPS, and that her kit is just fine the way it is.

 

Ok I'm no Math Wiz and its 2:25 AM ATM so Bare with me cause I'm going to put absolutely no effort into this and will likely be wrong

Exalted Blades Base Damage is 250 362.5 with +45% Strength

That +220% Base Damage With Spoiled Strike and Pressure Point Which is 1.160 IPS(?) Damage now

+180% Corrosive 3.248 Corrosive Damage

+90% 2.204 Fire Damage

And a 10% increase in DPS With Fury

AND if I'm Correct All that + The Stealth Multiplier From the enemy being Blinded

AND!!! That Means That The Enemy Was ALSO Weak against Excaliburs Damage 2 Fold

 

Saryn Only Got +137% To Damage Duration and And +184% To Power Strength

If i somehow got all that right This Is Hardly Fair

+ He Completely Ignored 1 Of Sayrns Best Damage Abilities (Base 1.3 Toxic Modifier to Melee)

Edited March 21, 2016 by (PS4)Crimson_Judgment
Fixed error

[PikeOrShield]

5 minutes ago, akira_him said:

you don't need to understand its math, you need to understand in a controlled environment, exca excels in damage more than Saryn does
Saryn Miasma sucks in a controlled environment, how could it preform well in real situation

Besides this rework is a epic fail, DE want people to use not just 1 ability, but now people keep pressing 1 on their molt with a torid instead of keep pressing 4, almost nothing was changed

I never said anything about math.  Are you sure you were not trying to respond to ClinkzEastwood?

But since you replied I might as well say something.  You deserve a cookie for realizing max damage Miasma does not hold up against single targets.  However, I don't agree with the whole, "controlled environment" thing you brought up.  While Miasma damage alone is not the best for endgame content, it does very well in crouds (controlled or uncontrolled) so long as everyone has good toxin procs and spores on them.  Miasma pops all the spores, making a bunch of enemies in range stack their toxin procs onto one another in adition to 8000+ corrosive damage.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

31 minutes ago, PikeOrShield said:

I never said anything about math.  Are you sure you were not trying to respond to ClinkzEastwood?

But since you replied I might as well say something.  You deserve a cookie for realizing max damage Miasma does not hold up against single targets.  However, I don't agree with the whole, "controlled environment" thing you brought up.  While Miasma damage alone is not the best for endgame content, it does very well in crouds (controlled or uncontrolled) so long as everyone has good toxin procs and spores on them.  Miasma pops all the spores, making a bunch of enemies in range stack their toxin procs onto one another in adition to 8000+ corrosive damage.

How so even? Singletarget saryn gets in reality a direct multiplicator onto melee damage. 

As i said before, building your melee weapon (preferably ichors) around red crits should result in ~80k red crit damage peak with a 4x combo multiplicator.. This damage scales directly into poison proccs using lash and reaonates in destroying spores for 100% of the damage that set them, per dot. Just attacking a spored enemy for this damage adds 100, 200, 300% poison damage with each hit, additional damage next to the dot which also equals 50%+ over 10 seconds, and spreads 40% of this damage with the spores. 

 

40% radial damage of 80, 160, 240, 320k singletarget damage...whats the most excal is able to pull off? 20-30k waves? 80k stealth finisher?

Neather of you deserves a cookie. You both need to do your homework.

Edited March 21, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[PikeOrShield]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

How so even? Singletarget saryn gets in reality a direct multiplicator onto melee damage. 

As i said before, building your melee weapon (preferably ichors) around red crits should result in ~80k red crit damage peak with a 4x combo multiplicator.. This damage scales directly into poison proccs using lash and reaonates in destroying spores for 100% of the damage that set them, per dot. Just attacking a spored enemy for this damage adds 100, 200, 300% poison damage with each hit, additional damage next to the dot which also equals 50%+ over 10 seconds, and spreads 40% of this damage with the spores. 

 

40% radial damage of 80, 160, 240, 320k singletarget damage...whats the most excal is able to pull off? 20-30k waves? 80k stealth finisher?

Neather of you deserves a cookie.

You need to read the full post again.  I said MIASMA DAMAGE does not hold up against SINGLE TARGETS in endgame.  What I said had NOTHING to do with Toxic Lash, spore popping, groups of enemies, or your Dual Ichors.  I'll take those cookies right back, thank you very much.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

3 hours ago, PikeOrShield said:

You need to read the full post again.  I said MIASMA DAMAGE does not hold up against SINGLE TARGETS in endgame.  What I said had NOTHING to do with Toxic Lash, spore popping, groups of enemies, or your Dual Ichors.  I'll take those cookies right back, thank you very much.

It has not? The singletarget damage reflects in the spores as final result, which miasama also scales off popping them.

The poison scaling evryone chooses to ignore is her absolute base. Nothing in her kit does big numbers without it. Evrything becomes stronger taking it into consideration. Think a step ahead, 3 hits would idealy leave enemys all around saryn with 40% of the 80+160+240k damage, which equals 192k first, 76k second instance damage that adds to miasamas damage, as addition to the 8k+ it deals by itself. PER TARGET. You took the raw bonus for viral and toxic scaling into consideration so what reason is there to ignore the triggered damage?

Definitly no cookies for people who can't stop viewing abilitys in a kit with perfect synergy as individual.

Edited March 21, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[PikeOrShield]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It has not? The singletarget damage reflects in the spores as final result, which miasama also scales off popping them.

The poison scaling evryone chooses to ignore is her absolute base. Nothing in her kit does big numbers without it. Evrything becomes stronger taking it into consideration. Think a step ahead, 3 hits would idealy leave enemys all around saryn with 40% of the 80+160+240k damage, which equals 192k damage that adds to miasamas damage, as addition to the 8k+ it deals by itself. PER TARGET. You took the raw bonus for viral and toxic scaling into consideration so what reason is there to ignore the triggered damage?

Definitly no cookies for people who can't stop viewing abilitys in a kit with perfect synergy as individual.

Popping spores off of an enemy does not deal extra damage to that single enemy, in fact it removes a viral tic from that one enemy.  However, popping spores boosts overall damage since the spores can spread their damage to enemies around the one the spore was popped off of.

Again, you are missing the point.  We are talking about a single target, one on one, with no other enemies to bounce spores off of.  We are talking about a situation where you are facing one target and one target only.  You cannot spore stack if you cannot bounce spores between targets.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

2 hours ago, PikeOrShield said:

Popping spores off of an enemy does not deal extra damage to that single enemy, in fact it removes a viral tic from that one enemy.  However, popping spores boosts overall damage since the spores can spread their damage to enemies around the one the spore was popped off of.

Again, you are missing the point.  We are talking about a single target, one on one, with no other enemies to bounce spores off of.  We are talking about a situation where you are facing one target and one target only.  You cannot spore stack if you cannot bounce spores between targets.

Basic mechanic of spores (source: wikipedia)

 
"If an infected enemy is being damaged by a toxic proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread toxic damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the proc added to its burst damage as viral damage with a 100% status chance for viral and toxic effects.
Damage percentage is affected by Power Strength

 

The 192k additional damage i've mentioned before affect single as well as multitargets as the poison spreads but also applies to the burst damage of each individual spore. Your argument is invalid.

Edited afterwards (forgot to): 76k radial, for evry target in the second instance, given that the burst percentage applies to the spread poison as well. Could be just as well 100% of the base that set the innitial damage, which would translate into 100% poison and the same number on the burst. This single and multitarget burst is obviously far from the limit. The limit would be whatever you're able to smash onto the enemy before the poison ticks run out. 3 hits are just a realistic scenario as you gain the multiplier trough a match and need but a few hits to absolutely obliberate single and multitargets all around you.

Edited March 21, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Gurpgork]

10 hours ago, ograzzt said:

I didn't know spores can lock you on each Ancient Disruptor for a good 10 seconds (making him unkillable for other players) like Bladestorm. Thanks god you educated me. 

So could it be that Saryn is better at fighting Infested than Ash?

There we go. Saryn does something better than Ash does. She's not objectively worse than Ash. 

Not that you were the person who was trying to say she was, but still. 

[CrudShuzKong]

As an ember player I can  only mildly smile at you guys *@##$ing about how bad saryn is damage wise....

I agree that Saryn's 4 isnt that great, but the frame as a whole is still pretty good if you use the right weapons and builds.

[crashapple12]

one should not forget that spores cause viral procs and as a sub effect also spread toxin procs

the only things i would personally change about saryn the way she is not is cap spores spread range to 20-25m range unaffected by mods (this is just a personal thing)

molt most definantly requires the globe absorb effect

and honestly just +1 second on miasma

[ThatOddDeer]

8 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Basic mechanic of spores (source: wikipedia)

 
"If an infected enemy is being damaged by a toxic proc, popping a spore on that enemy will also spread toxic damage to surrounding enemies. The spore will have 25% of the initial base damage that triggered the proc added to its burst damage as viral damage with a 100% status chance for viral and toxic effects.
Damage percentage is affected by Power Strength

 

The 192k additional damage i've mentioned before affect single as well as multitargets as the poison spreads but also applies to the burst damage of each individual spore. Your argument is invalid.

Edited afterwards (forgot to): 76k radial, for evry target in the second instance, given that the burst percentage applies to the spread poison as well. Could be just as well 100% of the base that set the innitial damage, which would translate into 100% poison and the same number on the burst. This single and multitarget burst is obviously far from the limit. The limit would be whatever you're able to smash onto the enemy before the poison ticks run out. 3 hits are just a realistic scenario as you gain the multiplier trough a match and need but a few hits to absolutely obliberate single and multitargets all around you.

That, in theory, should work but in fact it does not. If you take a crit melee with toxic lash into the simulacrum you'll notice that spores are bugged beyond belief when it comes to popping mechanics. If you kill a target with the instance of damage that inflicts the toxin proc, not only do you not get the energy for popping all 3 spores with toxic lash you also don't spread any toxin damage whatsoever. It spreads the viral and that's it. In order for the toxic lash+spore combo to spread toxin enemies need to be able to take tens of thousands of damage through ridiculous armor scaling and then the whole toxin damage spreading becomes a moot point anyways as the ticks do less than 100 damage when my slash procs are the only thing killing things that are over level 250 and are covered in armor.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

On an other thread:

Just 15 min ago:

She is letal, i was still able to kill them easely, but i could not approach the support capsule without losing my invisibility AND my combo counter=> one shot and / or no more dps so i was a little bit forced to leave.

 

Saryn is awesome, deadly and she have more utility in team than excalibur just for her -50% hp everywhere.

[ThatOddDeer]

 

The only reason I started to out damage my buddy here who was playing ash prime was because I had a 100% status and red crit nikana prime.

Without the slash procs to ignore armor my toxic lash and spore were only used to regen energy and cut hp in half. I could have done the same with my banshee and my spots would have been far more useful as banshee and silence would have been invaluable damage boost 

 

Please stop exaggerating the DoT aspect of saryn as that is her weakest part of her kit, sure cutting hp in half is nice but other frames do that job better while also bringing more to the team. 

 

On another note, it took over level 150 heavies to make toxic lash viable for energy restoring as they lasted long enough for more than 1 hit per target.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

8 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

The only reason I started to out damage my buddy here who was playing ash prime was because I had a 100% status and red crit nikana prime.

Without the slash procs to ignore armor my toxic lash and spore were only used to regen energy and cut hp in half. I could have done the same with my banshee and my spots would have been far more useful as banshee and silence would have been invaluable damage boost 

 

Please stop exaggerating the DoT aspect of saryn as that is her weakest part of her kit, sure cutting hp in half is nice but other frames do that job better while also bringing more to the team. 

 

On another note, it took over level 150 heavies to make toxic lash viable for energy restoring as they lasted long enough for more than 1 hit per target.

QQ more on her little boy, i was one shotting everything around when i was focused on the bombards and heavy gunners only with the dots you are talking about, kiss ;)

Edited March 21, 2016 by Nesisphira

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, Nesisphira said:

QQ more on her little boy, i was one shotting everything around when i was focusing on the bombards and heavy gunners only with the dots you are talking about, kiss ;)

That's a blatant lie. I'm sorry but even testing against level 130s in the simulacrum with gas lanka doesn't do that. Please grow up before spreading information and using ad hominem in an argument as if it mattered.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

Lol Gaz lanka against lvl 100 +corrupted? Who is doing this?

I dont spread bad informations, a well used toxic lash and spores with the proper build kill all the trash in one shot, and you kill the big ones with a well placed knockdown + finisher with the right weapon to proc a big big slash damage when they recover.

But you can continue to QQ, i dont really care if you cant use your brain and skill to find how to use her correctly

You have to run with an excal to do the same time than me solo, lol.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Nesisphira

[ThatOddDeer]

7 minutes ago, Nesisphira said:

Lol Gaz lanka against lvl 100 +corrupted? Who is doing this?

I dont spread bad informations, a well used toxic lash and spores with the proper build kill all the trash in one shot, and you kill the big ones with a well placed knockdown + finisher with the right weapon to proc a big big slash damage when they recover.

But you can continue to QQ, i dont really care if you cant use your brain and skill to find how to use her correctly

You have to run with an excal to do the same time than me solo, lol.

1 he was running an ash, 2 he wasn't even remotely relevant past 100 minutes. I can do another run solo to prove my point but that's a waste of 2 hours.

I'll go and test toxic maiming strike spore build with the simulacrum and if it doesn't kill faster than corrosive then you're still delusional.

[Kharn-The-Betrayer]

4 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

1 he was running an ash, 2 he wasn't even remotely relevant past 100 minutes. I can do another run solo to prove my point but that's a waste of 2 hours.

I'll go and test toxic maiming strike spore build with the simulacrum and if it doesn't kill faster than corrosive then you're still delusional.

I dont care about your opinion, she is able to destroy lvl 400 corrupted easely, so she is strong

Go play valkyr, or your beloved excalibur, or maybe a trinity blessing if you dont like her

Edited March 21, 2016 by Nesisphira

[ThatOddDeer]

4 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

I'll go and test toxic maiming strike spore build with the simulacrum and if it doesn't kill faster than corrosive then you're still delusional.

yep still entirely useless. Corrosive and slash procs kill way faster. Your claims are not reproduce able and therefore invalid

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, Nesisphira said:

 

Go play valkyr, or your beloved excalibur, or maybe a trinity blessing if you have some skills.

I'll go take an unmodded mag into a endless and do just fine. Do I want to subject myself to that boredom? No, but it seems to be the only way to quell your idiocy. 

As a matter of fact I only play saryn anyways, I enjoy her kit despite it being weaker than her alternatives and I play her for that reason. But I will not defend her for being better than she is not.