About Sayrn and Excal

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

16 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Well, I guess I'll just leave you to your own stupidity then. I tried and failed. How can I expect you to understand the concept of late-game Excal, if you fail to comprehend elementary things?

Which is high raw damage affected by a stealth multiplier once? Yea, sure. Whatever you say pal.

 

Compared to higher raw damage, also affected by the same multiplier, plus spreading, detonating, upscaling raw and dot damage...

 

What did you say darling? No insults, facts.

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

11 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Which is high raw damage affected by a stealth multiplier once? Yea, sure. Whatever you say pal.

Yeah, right. You have my screenshot, which has damage numbers on it. you have my Power Strength. Use some "math" and think about it. Or don't. Thinking might be too hard after all.

 

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Compared to higher raw damage

>Implying current melee can achieve higher DPS than EBlade.

It can achieve higher damage per hit, though.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

affected by the same multiplier

>implying Shadow Step provides the same multiplier as RB
>implying I didn't point him that even using RB won't result in a same multiplier on Blood Rush weapon. Twice.

You do like to look stupid, don't you?

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

No insults, facts.

"facts"

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

What did you say darling?

You forgot the comma, darling.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Epsik-kun
He tries to play editing games with me

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

17 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Yeah, right. You have my screenshot, which has damage numbers on it. you have my Power Strength. Use some "math" and think about it. Or don't. Thinking might be too hard after all.

^^ you relate to your screenshot with the numbers that were actually affected by the 2,5 multiplier where your waves were not don't ya

What would your radial damage be in this screen? 7,8K÷2,5=3.120. Roughly 3k damage when your multiplier runs out and on your waves while it's active, way to go. This eximus must've been quite the opportunity for you to manipulate his damage. I've seen people posting screens for 90k red crits with f**king zoren.

Wow.

Equal/stronger(most likely stronger) singletarget damage+ dots per hit for 50% of this damage + 46,25% additional damage per dot on the enemy+ additonal chance for dots with the scaling burst damage as base + spread, equal to excals base which actually scale off the damage you do...

 

But 3k damage sure sounds tempting...

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Wow.

I assume, 60k, 70k and 280k hits against lvl 350 Eximus Corrupted Heavy Gunner don't bother you at all.

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

I've seen people posting screens for 90k red crits with f**king zoren.

Yeah, that was me.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Epsik-kun

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Excuse me, 70k, 70k on a eximus heavy gunner that is clearly affected by corrusion, 30k crit damage against a heavy gunner with reduced armor. Impressive.

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Excuse me, 70k, 70k on a eximus heavy gunner that is clearly affected by corrusion, 30k crit damage against a heavy gunner with reduced armor. Impressive.

So 70k crit followed by 4k hit, right? And 280k damage hit prior to that. I think it works exactly as you think.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

So 70k crit followed by 4k hit, right? And 280k damage hit prior to that. I think it works exactly as you think.

 

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

So 70k crit followed by 4k hit, right? And 280k damage hit prior to that. I think it works exactly as you think.

^^should i have taken the singletarget stealth finisher into consideration?

 

So impressive

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

^^should i have taken the singletarget stealth finisher into consideration?

Should I have told you that I have Arcane Ultimatum on my Excal?

[Dark5eiD]

On 3/21/2016 at 0:39 PM, CrudShuzKong said:

she does her damage way more spread out than excal, also she debuffs with viral procs, the 2 frames arent that easily compareable.

^ this is it. cant really compare the two. not sure why anyone would. what is it your suggesting to do if you were correct?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

33 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Should I have told you that I have Arcane Ultimatum on my Excal?

You could've mentioned if you play radiant finisher or not, calculating back the 280k brings us to eather 18k or 4,7k damage you do against enemys without armor, the more realistic option is 18k tho as it fits well with a crit mod enchanted 3,2? Multiplier with additional corrusion bonus damage. So your waves wouldn't do 30 but 18k against enemys with reduced armor. Just a few 100-1000 against enemys who don't have reduced armor.

You did post the 90k crit? Sooo... 90k against enemys without reduced armor is not stronger then 18k-70k in your oppinion? ....

 

Saryn would do 90k+45k dot on the first, 90k+41k+90k dot on the second, 90k+82k+135k dot on the third hit on the same frickin enemy. Just saying.

 

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

I have a question. When exactly did this become an Excal thread exclusively? There hasn't been a post regarding Saryn in some time. Enough with arguing about how EB works and let's get back to topic pls.

And to the guy hurling the "R" word around, try not to let those edges cut you so often, you'll bleed less ;).

Anywho, Saryn's greatest assets is the fact her best ability (her 1 ofc) can be used in several manners. The first is the combo method DE basically told us to use  ,which is  her 2-1-4 spam (the least effective IMO). The second is the status method where you take a high status weapon and combo it with spore range spreading mechanics. Lastly we have her 1-2 combos, and her 1-3 combos which promote two different play styles. The 1-2 combo promotes caster-support role play in which you stay at a distance while providing an excellent debuff at high levels. The 1-3 is the exact opposite, as it allows you to entire the fray of melee combat while providing an excellent multi target damage spread.

Basically, her one is one of the best abilities in game that will ALWAYS scale better than damage abilities with the only exceptions being Landslide and Maim simply because it halves all hp. It matters not whether your enemies are level 80 or 8000, their hp will still have 3 times within six seconds.

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)KikoEschobar

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

You could've mentioned if you play radiant finisher or not, calculating back the 280k brings us to eather 18k or 4,7k damage you do against enemys without armor, the more realistic option is 18k tho as it fits well with a crit mod enchanted 3,2? Multiplier with additional corrusion bonus damage. So your waves wouldn't do 30 but 18k against enemys with reduced armor. Just a few 100-1000 against enemys who don't have reduced armor.

You did post the 90k crit? Sooo... 90k against enemys without reduced armor is not stronger then 18k in your oppinion? ....

 

Wah, questions, I like that. Alright, I don't use Radiant Finish. Also, the only critical bonus I have is Naramon's passive. Also, don't forget to keep in mind that's lvl 350 eximus and armor scales with level. And those 4k hits too.

 

Well, what should I tell you. 90k damage isn't the limit. On Dual Raza you can do over 400k. However, here's the catch - that's damage on unarmored enemies. Even 400k pure damage hit falls down to around ~10k on lvl 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Second catch, you do realise there should be a reason I just told you that Excal's DPS is higher than current melee, despite knowing all that, don't you?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

43 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Wah, questions, I like that. Alright, I don't use Radiant Finish. Also, the only critical bonus I have is Naramon's passive. Also, don't forget to keep in mind that's lvl 350 eximus and armor scales with level. And those 4k hits too.

 

Well, what should I tell you. 90k damage isn't the limit. On Dual Raza you can do over 400k. However, here's the catch - that's damage on unarmored enemies. Even 400k pure damage hit falls down to around ~10k on lvl 100 Corrupted Heavy Gunner. Second catch, you do realise there should be a reason I just told you that Excal's DPS is higher than current melee, despite knowing all that, don't you?

This damage you refer to is against a strongly reduced enemy tho and 18k the definite base of your attacks. Bonus elemental damage+2x crit and naramon then+combo on reduced armor is what results in the 70k. Don't take the combo into consideration and your damage is significantly lower. (Not very realistic to have combos on excal that often and they don't go into the waves eather)

I could just as well grab a nikana  p for longer runs, get the same damage base with red crits + a decent/higher chance for corrusion proccs and still get higher additional damage outa her spore mechanic so what's your point exactly? That EB is stronger for no particular reason?... that excal is supperior bc he has access to stealth finishers, what results in situational higher damage peaks on singletargets?... just a few strikes on a spored target dragg her per hit damage to where excals stealth finisher is!

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

This damage you refer to is against a strongly reduced enemy tho and 18k the definite base of your attacks. Bonus elemental damage+2x crit and naramon then+combo on reduced armor is what results in the 70k. Don't take the combo into consideration and your damage is significantly lower. (Not very realistic to have combos on excal that often and they don't go into the waves eather)

I could just as well grab a nikana  p for longer runs, get the same damage base with red crits + a decent/higher chance for corrusion proccs and still get higher additional damage outa her spore mechanic so what's your point exactly? That EB is stronger for no particular reason?... that excal is supperior bc he has access to stealth finishers, what results in situational higher damage peaks on singletargets?... just a few strikes on a spored target dragg her per hit damage to where excals stealth finisher is!

After all, thinking is too hard for you. And here I was hoping.

Btw, Nikana Prime is bad for that.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

13 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

After all, thinking is too hard for you. And here I was hoping.

Btw, Nikana Prime is bad for that.

Double the basedamage, 20% base crit, 2x instead of 3x crit compared to raza, 20% base status to set corrusion, what in fact defined your damage in the screenshot. There again for no particular reason i assume?

Higher red crit base then what EB is able to do, higher status chance which you took into consideration. Again, additional damage trough the spore mechanic.

 

Wanna add something aside from baseless insults darling?

Edited March 24, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Again for no particular reason darling?

Use commas, darling. Anyway, I spoon fed you enough. I told you, Nikana Prime is bad for that. I don't want to waste more of my time explaining how does this work, given you won't understand it anyway, as you didn't even understood what I've explained to you before that.

Get your update, use Nikana Prime, be happy with what you have and don't think about being able to do better. Cheers, dear.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

Use commas, darling. Anyway, I spoon fed you enough. I told you, Nikana Prime is bad for that. I don't want to waste more of my time explaining how does this work, given you won't understand it anyway, as you didn't even understood what I've explained to you before that.

Get your update, use Nikana Prime, be happy with what you have and don't think about being able to do better. Cheers, dear.

^^ bye darling

[(PSN)KikoEschobar]

I've never seen the word "darling" used so often (dear either for that matter) lol.

[Ayalis]

Maybe he's British, anyway from my experience with Saryn this morning.

 

I just pub'd a T2 survival for about 48 minutes.

 

So I changed my build a little, dropping cunning drift in favor of maxed redirection. I kind of missed that bit of extra range but I did enjoy the added survivability.

 

I ran a different build on my orthos, using arcane avenger and naramon for added crit, the avenger at times would boost my base crit to 20% on orthos which scaled well for body count and blood rush. By 2x combo I was putting out red crits. This is a T2 though so that is really not needed since things will die anyway.

 

The result is that redirection helped a lot on survival, granted I'd have been fine without it, rage would be a much better option especially with avenger and life stealing. I ran berserker and the crits never ended.

 

I got in 47 minutes on T2 around 1400 kills the next closest player was around 800 kills with the last two being in the 200 areas.

 

As I expected, the moment enemies hit around 80, certain mobs were effectively impossible to kill. Viral procs do not matter, they wear out and the enemy heals.

 

Viral sounds nice on paper, but in effect it's not, it reminds me of demi from final fantasy how it did percentage damage, the problem with Viral is that the enemy effectively heals. And enemies you can kill would have died just as quickly without viral, the enemies worth putting viral on will still be there by the time the buff wears out red crits be damned, and by that point you're soaking so much damage from other mobs you probably have to ditch the effort.

 

Miasma is pointless in situations like the above because you need that energy to regen your health and Miasma is a very unreliable alternative for dealing with the situation anyway.

 

I feel players who are citing level 270 enemies aren't being entirely honest, in a conversation about the frame proper we can talk about the weapon because of her 3 being based on the melee weapon. Maybe also the primary and sub if only to mention procs of toxic. But doing 500k crits with the bow of your choice has nothing to do with Saryn or her proper abilities.

 

She can do an okay job vs trash mobs at 270 but from level 80 I can't find her answer for mobs with effective hps into the hundreds of thousands. If a mob has 800k hp you still have to get through 400k hp within a small space of time while being shot at, and if you fail to get the target to 0 it's back to 800k hp, so you are consuming loads of energy to keep it up and enemies cc'd or momentarily distracted.

[RealPandemonium]

On 3/24/2016 at 4:43 PM, Ayalis said:

ed, the moment enemies hit around 80, certain mobs were effectively impossible to kill. Viral procs do not matter, they wear out and the enemy heals.

 

Viral sounds nice on paper, but in effect it's not, it reminds me of demi from final fantasy how it did percentage damage, the problem with Viral is that the enemy effectively heals. And enemies you can kill would have died just as quickly without viral, the enemies worth putting viral on will still be there by the time the buff wears out red crits be damned, and by that point you're soaking so much damage from other mobs you probably have to ditch the effort.

 

Miasma is pointless in situations like the above because you need that energy to regen your health and Miasma is a very unreliable alternative for dealing with the situation anyway.

 

I feel players who are citing level 270 enemies aren't being entirely honest, in a conversation about the frame proper we can talk about the weapon because of her 3 being based on the melee weapon. Maybe also the primary and sub if only to mention procs of toxic. But doing 500k crits with the bow of your choice has nothing to do with Saryn or her proper abilities.

 

She can do an okay job vs trash mobs at 270 but from level 80 I can't find her answer for mobs with effective hps into the hundreds of thousands. If a mob has 800k hp you still have to get through 400k hp within a small space of time while being shot at, and if you fail to get the target to 0 it's back to 800k hp, so you are consuming loads of energy to keep it up and enemies cc'd or momentarily distracted.

That we're seriously citing performance vs level 280 Grineer shows how ridiculous the "balance" discussion for this game has become.  

Also, Spores should be constantly refreshing the Viral proc more or less for free across the entire field, so its time limit is effectively circumvented when Saryn is in play.

[PrincessPilfer]

Do the detractors know that Saryns damage scales more or less infinitely? Or how she works at all?

 

Step 1: cast spores.

Step 2: Cast toxic lash

Step 3: hit enemy to spread spores to everything in range, a 100% chance to trigger viral and apply toxin for 50% of the total damage you did with that strike.

Step 4: Hit the enemy again to add another toxic strike, re trigger viral, and apply 25% of the toxic damage on the target to everything else

Step 5: Hit a different enemy. It will: Proc Viral again, proc toxin again (and remember, this target is already impacted by 2 seperate toxic procs totaling 50% of the total damage you did with your first 2 melee attacks on the first target,) spread/refresh spores and apply 75% of the total damage you did with the first 2 melee strikes to everything in range.

Note:Every time an ally pops a spore, all this happens again, just without the extra toxic proc from toxic lash, and it also happens every time an affected enemy dies (though at a reduced range)

Repeat.

 

Her burst and single target are crap, no doubt. Probably because she isn't a burst or sinlge target frame. What she will do massive amounts of AoE damage against enemies whos health is permanently halved.  As time goes on you can and will be procing tens or or even hundreds of thousands of toxic damage to every enemy in a (in my case) 26 meter range with every strike. The only limit to her damage is the amount of strikes the enemy can survive.

 

 

On 3/24/2016 at 1:43 PM, Ayalis said:

I feel players who are citing level 270 enemies aren't being entirely honest, in a conversation about the frame proper we can talk about the weapon because of her 3 being based on the melee weapon. Maybe also the primary and sub if only to mention procs of toxic. But doing 500k crits with the bow of your choice has nothing to do with Saryn or her proper abilities.

 

She can do an okay job vs trash mobs at 270 but from level 80 I can't find her answer for mobs with effective hps into the hundreds of thousands. If a mob has 800k hp you still have to get through 400k hp within a small space of time while being shot at, and if you fail to get the target to 0 it's back to 800k hp, so you are consuming loads of energy to keep it up and enemies cc'd or momentarily distracted.

Because Saryns damage is based on toxic procs spread by spores, we *must* include any and all weapons that are being used to inflict toxin because it directly impacts her ability to deal damage with her ability. Her answer for enemies (like heavy gunners) with hundreds of thousands of HP is to use them as a battery.. That hundreds of thousands of EHP is hundreds of thousands of toxin procs that she can spread to everything else with every strike. The more of them there are and the more she can hit in 1 strike, the faster she brings everything (including them) down. That's when she's alone, natrually. Her answer if she has party member is to let one of the burstier frames do it.

 

Being down on Saryn for a lack of burst to tackle heavies is like being down on Excal for a lack of healing or Nyx for a lack of DPS. That's not her job.

 

Also, viral spreads with every strike, or near enough to it that it makes no difference. Everythings EHP is permanently halved so long as Spores continue to pop.

Edited March 28, 2016 by ForumPirate

[Brosephelon]

On 3/24/2016 at 4:43 PM, Ayalis said:

She can do an okay job vs trash mobs at 270 but from level 80 I can't find her answer for mobs with effective hps into the hundreds of thousands. If a mob has 800k hp you still have to get through 400k hp within a small space of time while being shot at, and if you fail to get the target to 0 it's back to 800k hp, so you are consuming loads of energy to keep it up and enemies cc'd or momentarily distracted.

The HP isn't the issue, its the armor.  Almost every frame starts running into hard to kill armored enemies in the void around lv80.  To go beyond that easily you need a frame/weapon specifically designed around bypassing armor (using finisher damage, or having armor stripping) or be in a team using corrosive projection.  Once the armor is dealt with Saryn goes back to demolishing them just fine and dandy.  Most weapons and frames run into this issue with armored enemies, it can be played around but its the wall most people hit, there are ways around it as mentioned above but its sort of the dividing line between long time casuals and people who take warframe much more seriously.  

As to viral, you bounce and reapply the procs by spore popping, if you are having enemies heal up and having viral drop you are probably not using spore properly and/or you are only fighting one enemy.  If there is one enemy left don't be afraid to run and find more enemies so you can do your AoE business, its what Saryn is all about.