I've never seen anyone play Mesa

[(XBOX)C0gnitive 0n3]

18 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Doubt it. Slight buff will change nothing. Banshee's abilities, however very nice and strong, are far from being easy to use. There are other cc abilities that arguably costs less, need less dancing around and allows you to move freely and use your weapons. 

I have a combo Sonic Fracture and Resonnance build that I use in some Grineer sortie missions and, as you mentioned, will have me moving around freely and using my weapons in tandem with her abilities. As the list implies, though, I RARELY see anyone else using her.

[-Temp0-]

Was mostly referring to sound quake. It is of course impressive how effective it is - controlling enemies especially infested but it has downsides as well.

I mean I know that even with silence and sonic boom cc is decent but... honestly for Hieracon I'd choose something else myself.

[xmegarockx]

mesa need to be full reworked.....all her abilities are bad.

[CrudShuzKong]

30 minutes ago, xmegarockx said:

mesa need to be full reworked.....all her abilities are bad.

no.

Every player who likes her can tell you that 2/4 of her abilities are actually really good. If you dont get the frame, dont call for a rework so it fits your playstyle. Mesa has her own playstyle and there is no reason to destroy that for all her fans. She needs tweaks, maybe a rework on 1 and 4, but nothing more.

You can say you dont like her, but saying she is bad is just plain wrong.

[Ivan_Rid]

I`d love to see Mesa being able to juggle 4 shooting galleries at once. A single EB Excalibro can ruin all the fun nowdays.

edit: and converting Ballistic Battery damage into a finishing one wouldnt hurt either.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Ivan_Rid

[Yonm]

On 3/27/2016 at 1:55 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Translation - only managable mostly in solo and around medium levels. No exceptional skills whatsoever, just shoot everything until it's dead. Mostly loved because of the aesthetics and by people who like "challenge" as they call it.

What's with this snobby attitude? There's nothing wrong with a non-gimmicky character. Her kit is made for "shooting everything until they're dead". I'm sorry that upsets you. Ash and Valk are over there. 

[Yonm]

On 3/27/2016 at 1:55 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Wukong requires two things - 1. rage 2. vitality (+vigor optional). There. And to recast your defy after like 2 "deaths" to keep it perfectly safe and keep that rage useful. Can also use primary, secondary, melee + his staff.

Wukong requires you to run away to recast defy after the hit-points are used up. That's what I mean by "more management". Btw, you have to toggle Defy off, then on again if you're still in the invulnerability phase. So that means Wukong gets under 15s to do something, has to use Cloudwalker to get to a safe place where a stray bullet can't kill him, re-apply Defy and then repeat the entire process for the entire match.

Since Mesa has 2 abilities that are both duration based, she can used one as a buffer, so she can recast the other when it expires. If you're in a tight spot you can lifestrike-melee endlessly if you have rage, without having to run away. 

On 3/27/2016 at 1:55 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Valkyr can't shoot (still can do a trucktone of damage and very fast tho), but Mesa with that horrible ult can't shoot anything besides her normal weapons either, such wow for a gunslinger frame.

Valkyr does a ton of close range damage and is effectively invulnerable. She can get a bunch of kills, but not as much as Excal, Atlas, Ash or anyone with a decent weapon and she gets shutdown by nullifiers. Valk has her own uses, but just as much limitations as Mesa. 

On 3/27/2016 at 1:55 PM, Nomen_Nescio said:

Chroma at least gets a bonus for damage with his abilities.

So does Mesa. Chroma is better in every regard though, wasn't even arguing that.

[RoosterTheRed]

Her Ult is disappointing, and in a way, simply no fun. Being rooted to the ground is also, in a game that requires movement to stay alive, the #1 best way to get downed in high-level missions. 

 

I could forgive her other abilities if her Ult was both useful and fun. I agree, I wish it was like an Exalted Weapon. Some people claim the Exalted stuff is overused, but I have to be honest, it's fun, and it's useful, which is what I want. For her Ult, perhaps you could use her Peacemakers like Ivara uses her bow, except that when you hold down the trigger, you can select up to -insert number- targets, and when you release the trigger, she shoots em all with immense damage and speed. (Perhaps selecting more enemies does less damage.) 

[(PSN)acethefox]

21 minutes ago, RedRooster said:

Her Ult is disappointing, and in a way, simply no fun. Being rooted to the ground is also, in a game that requires movement to stay alive, the #1 best way to get downed in high-level missions. 

 

I could forgive her other abilities if her Ult was both useful and fun. I agree, I wish it was like an Exalted Weapon. Some people claim the Exalted stuff is overused, but I have to be honest, it's fun, and it's useful, which is what I want. For her Ult, perhaps you could use her Peacemakers like Ivara uses her bow, except that when you hold down the trigger, you can select up to -insert number- targets, and when you release the trigger, she shoots em all with immense damage and speed. (Perhaps selecting more enemies does less damage.) 

That would be worse than the current peacemaker by a long shot as now it takes twice as long to do that same thing.

[alergiclaprosti]

Keep in mind that She's had a rework done. Of course that and many many stealth nerfs.

[CrudShuzKong]

23 minutes ago, alergiclaprosti said:

Keep in mind that She's had a rework done. Of course that and many many stealth nerfs.

To be honest that "rework" was mostly the nerfhammer to PM due to it being a badly designed skill that was abused as a boring roomcleaner.

8 hours ago, Yonm said:

So does Mesa. Chroma is better in every regard though, wasn't even arguing that.

Well mesa has that weapon damage amplification, but other than that chroma rules supreme.

[Kletse]

At least the 100 people that wanted her nerfed are happy.

[CrudShuzKong]

8 minutes ago, Kletse said:

At least the 100 people that wanted her nerfed are happy.

Change was nescessary, the ability was the most boring thing, even less skill required than bladestorm spamming. So DE could either nerf it or completely rework it, they chose the easy way out for now and this is what we got.

If there are players who enjoy afk-gaming then Warframe is a bad game of choice, this game is about action and skill, not about spamming the same button over and over (at least this is what it should be, there will always be players that find a way to outplay the game in order to not have to play it).

[-Temp0-]

20 hours ago, Yonm said:

Wukong requires you to run away to recast defy after the hit-points are used up. That's what I mean by "more management". Btw, you have to toggle Defy off, then on again if you're still in the invulnerability phase. So that means Wukong gets under 15s to do something, has to use Cloudwalker to get to a safe place where a stray bullet can't kill him, re-apply Defy and then repeat the entire process for the entire match.

Same can be said for Mesa, Zephyr, Limbo and many other frames like that. But defy's cast animation is very quick. I was running away first but honestly you don't have to do that. Not really. Can jump if you feel like it. I never used cloudwalker to get away from the enemies. Not in sortie surv, nor in the void surv. Was always perfectly fine. And I mean I'm far from being a pro or something. But like with every warframe, it just depends on the person. But point remains, once you get how defy works and how to maintain energy at it it's way easier. You can literally take all the damage while not dying, including status effects and melee hits and if you're not surrounded by the energy leeches in large amounts you won't run out of energy. Some might find it too risky or just stressful seeing how your health might be gone in seconds but after playing for awhile you're getting used to it.

20 hours ago, Yonm said:

Valkyr does a ton of close range damage and is effectively invulnerable. She can get a bunch of kills, but not as much as Excal, Atlas, Ash or anyone with a decent weapon and she gets shutdown by nullifiers. Valk has her own uses, but just as much limitations as Mesa. 

You can beat the ... out of the null's bubbles while you're in Hysteria just by punching it from some distance - not entering it. And idk, but more than 1000 kills for 40-60 min in surv is kinda more than enough. Enough to get enough life supports even in solo, and that's all that matters really. Unless you mean focus but that wasn't a point.

20 hours ago, Yonm said:

So does Mesa. Chroma is better in every regard though, wasn't even arguing that.

If by that you mean ballistic battery, than it's a joke of a buff.

[Ocfos]

On 3/25/2016 at 10:32 AM, TotallyLagging said:

And the fact that you're supposed to move around and shoot, not stand around like an idiot.

Oh wait, that's what almost every Peacemaker Mesas do before they changed it.

And there's the money-shot of the thread. We have a winner for completely getting on-point with it.

Thank you for proving I'm not alone in loving that 'nerf'.

[-Temp0-]

On 29.03.2016 at 3:18 AM, Yonm said:

What's with this snobby attitude? There's nothing wrong with a non-gimmicky character. Her kit is made for "shooting everything until they're dead". I'm sorry that upsets you. Ash and Valk are over there. 

Ash is out there for you since mentioned it. Never used it for anything but low-level solo farm.

If she is 'shoot everything until it's dead' she should have some useful abilities for that, not regular guns that do the same as they normally do for any other warframe and not her 1 (forget about 4, was crap and now is crap). Hell, they don't even fire faster or reload faster, that would've been at least something.

[Yonm]

7 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Same can be said for Mesa, Zephyr, Limbo and many other frames like that. But defy's cast animation is very quick. I was running away first but honestly you don't have to do that. Not really. Can jump if you feel like it. I never used cloudwalker to get away from the enemies. Not in sortie surv, nor in the void surv. Was always perfectly fine. And I mean I'm far from being a pro or something. But like with every warframe, it just depends on the person. But point remains, once you get how defy works and how to maintain energy at it it's way easier. You can literally take all the damage while not dying, including status effects and melee hits and if you're not surrounded by the energy leeches in large amounts you won't run out of energy. Some might find it too risky or just stressful seeing how your health might be gone in seconds but after playing for awhile you're getting used to it.

Again, the invulnerability phase needs to be toggled off before you can re-use Defy again. Against pea-shooters, sure, you can stand there and tank bullets. Against enemies that can take you from 1000 to 0 in a second, you will die during the cast animation, even with Natural Talent. 15s intervals of invulnerability is not as manageable as Mesa and Zephyr's (or even Limbo, not that anyone uses him...) 40-50s damage mitigation. You can use Quick-thinking as a buffer, but it's not an easy thing to fit into a build.

7 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

You can beat the ... out of the null's bubbles while you're in Hysteria just by punching it from some distance - not entering it. And idk, but more than 1000 kills for 40-60 min in surv is kinda more than enough. Enough to get enough life supports even in solo, and that's all that matters really. Unless you mean focus but that wasn't a point.

I think you're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point... you say 1000 kills for Valk is more than enough, but that's really not much esp. in 40 minutes of survival. I get that running around with Volt and his Speed Augment. Not shooting, literally just running. Mesa with even mid-tier weapons can out kill that. So if Mesa can perform leagues above what you consider a decent run of surv by herself, how exactly is she bad?

7 hours ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

If by that you mean ballistic battery, than it's a joke of a buff.

...Shooting gallery? That's like the most basic thing a Mesa player knows. You haven't played Mesa a lot, have you?

One last time, since you appear to have lost track of what you're even arguing about. Mesa's L2 and L3 amazing, her L1 could use a buff and her ult definitely needs some work. She's an overall great frame, not top-tier, but far from garbage. You haven't really said anything that disputes this...

[CandyDragon]

On 3/23/2016 at 2:13 PM, Noamuth said:

I almost never see Banshee or Nekros these days.

Nekros rare drop chance got nerfed, hydroid does this job now.  His clones aren't that good, soul punch tickles enemies, and terrify is like a slower, less functional blind. 

I will resume using Banshe once her better skin comes out.  Currently I cannot stand the boat shoes no matter how fun I find her playstyle.  

[MagPrime]

5 minutes ago, Nariala said:

Nekros rare drop chance got nerfed, hydroid does this job now.  His clones aren't that good, soul punch tickles enemies, and terrify is like a slower, less functional blind. 

I will resume using Banshe once her better skin comes out.  Currently I cannot stand the boat shoes no matter how fun I find her playstyle.  

How do the boat shoes bother you?  You can't even see them when you play.

[Yonm]

1 hour ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Hell, they don't even fire faster or reload faster, that would've been at least something.

Secondaries do. It's her passive.

• +10% fire rate with dual wielded sidearms.
• +20% reload speed for one handed sidearms.

Limited, but they're multiplicative so they come in handy for certain weapons. She had more at launch:

• +1.0m Punch Through bonus on sniper rifles.
• +2 extra pellets for shotguns.
• +5% additive damage for rifles.
• +15% projectile speed on launchers.
• +20% extra ammo for bows.
• +20% strafe speed while aiming (zoom-in).

But exactly 6 people cried "NERF!" and DE took out all except for 3 (shocker). Again, her design focus is clearly supposed to be that of a "run-and-gun" frame, it was just a lot more obvious at launch.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Yonm

[CandyDragon]

15 minutes ago, Noamuth said:

How do the boat shoes bother you?  You can't even see them when you play.

I don't know what your resolution or FOV is, but I glide and move enough to constantly be reminded of the tacky footwear. 

[MagPrime]

15 minutes ago, Nariala said:

I don't know what your resolution or FOV is, but I glide and move enough to constantly be reminded of the tacky footwear. 

Fair enough.

[alergiclaprosti]

On 3/22/2016 at 8:54 PM, (PS4)Clockwork-Crow said:

If you won't play a frame for the utility or powers it has, then do it for the style. 

Unleash your inner Warframe fashionista!

Mesa + Telos Akbolto + Salix Syandana = Endgame Mesa

This game suffers because of people like you!

[(PSN)Clockwork-Crow]

9 hours ago, alergiclaprosti said:

This game suffers because of people like you!

I know, I'm a walking trend machine. My style is apparent to the point it shows on my frames statistics. 200% power strength? Or 300% style power? I'll try not to make others look bad so the game no longer suffers, but fashion? True fashion never dies. 

[Judggernaught]

You don't see many Mesa because while not being bad, other frames fill her roll better and bring more team utility.

A lot of other frames.