So Mag Prime has a brain

[Stratego89]

2 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

See above for actual quotes that talk about the canonicity of Dark Sector to Warframe.

Yes, see above- where I posted said quotes. Glad to see you're coming around. <3

Edited March 29, 2016 by Stratego89

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

8 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

While providing evidence is indeed the responsibility of the claimant- it's not worth my time to go through however many devstreams I would have to in order to find something insignificant to appease one person about something that is pretty much common knowledge. It is a thing that was said, I know it for a fact, and that's all that matters to me. If you want to go about talking about lore while not checking your claims, that's all you and doesn't affect me at all.

Just like how you aren't listening to what anyone else says? He provided evidence (actual proof instead of theories and conjecture) And you just ignore it.

 

Well atleast we know who the ignorant one is

[SilentMobius]

2 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Yes, see above- where I posted said quotes. Glad to see you're coming around. <3

You haven't posted any quotes, I did, they support my assertions, I've seen nothing quoted from you. (N.B. quotes need a source)

Better than that I've seen you make this assertion before and even then you didn't back it up.

Pretty much "pics or it didn't happen"

[LightBriite]

6 minutes ago, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Just like how you aren't listening to what anyone else says? He provided evidence (actual proof instead of theories and conjecture) And you just ignore it.

 

Well atleast we know who the ignorant one is

Again, at this point, you should be well comfortable with feeling you're right and they're wrong, yet you persist because you feel as though they might actually prove you wrong, and you want to constantly try to berate them into be more wrong and just saying stupid crap like "Haha ur so dumb ur the ignorant one". 

Edited March 29, 2016 by LightBriite

[Stratego89]

2 minutes ago, SilentMobius said:

You haven't posted any quotes, I did, they support my assertions, I've seen nothing quoted from you. (N.B. quotes need a source)

Better than that I've seen you make this assertion before and even then you didn't back it up.

Pretty much "pics or it didn't happen"

So let me get this straight. I posted something in quotations- containing the exact words of what I've seen in a stream from the devs- but I didn't post any quotes.

You posted something in quotations- also without a source- yet you did post a quote.

Your logic is infallible. 

Another person on the list of people I have to make the decision to never see a post from on forums again tonight. Tonight is not a good night at all.

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

Just now, LightBriite said:

Again, at this point, you should be well comfortable with feeling you're right and they're wrong, yet you persist because you feel as though they might actually prove you wrong, and you want to constantly try to berate them into be more wrong and just saying stupid crap like "Haha ur so dumb ur the ignorant one". 

Except I've pulled direct quotes from the game. My disagreements come from different opinions people have. I even took the entire Rhino Lore and posted it for everyone and quoted the information that makes it almost blatantly clear that it was talking about an iteration of rhino. I think its on page 2. Are you aware of any infested that can turn a security team into red mist then stand looking at its hands? Most infested that I'm aware of are too disfigured to stand up straight and look at their hands. I posted a quote for everyone to see. Unlike Stratego who posts nothing to support his claims, and ignores other peoples evidence.

[SilentMobius]

1 minute ago, Stratego89 said:

So let me get this straight. I posted something in quotations- containing the exact words of what I've seen in a stream from the devs- but I didn't post any quotes.

You posted something in quotations- also without a source- yet you did post a quote.

Your logic is infallible. 

Another person on the list of people I have to make the decision to never see a post from on forums again tonight. Tonight is not a good night at all.

I Posted Devstream numbers names and timestaps, that is attribution. You have never done so even though you continue to use this "quote" (Interestingly it changes depending on your mood, which is odd for a supposed direct quote:

https://forums.warframe.com/topic/527131-i-want-to-hear-your-theories/
 "Dark sector is at least partially canon to Warframe"
https://forums.warframe.com/topic/550080-what-if-de-made-warframe-2/?page=2
 "Dark sector is at least partially canon to the warframe universe".

Sounds to me like something only half remembered. Would be really useful of you could actually source that.

 

 

[(PSN)UltraKardas]

9 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

So let me get this straight. I posted something in quotations- containing the exact words of what I've seen in a stream from the devs- but I didn't post any quotes.

You posted something in quotations- also without a source- yet you did post a quote.

Your logic is infallible. 

Another person on the list of people I have to make the decision to never see a post from on forums again tonight. Tonight is not a good night at all.

Closest thing to a quote you have in this subject is this

 

10 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

And last but not least since you are apparently simply going to refuse to believe we were controlling the warframes ourselves- go and find the devstream (either first one or second one) after the Second Dream came out, where they recapped what had happened.

And its so specific too, 

[Genitive]

53 minutes ago, Littlerift said:

Just thought I'd reiterate the fact that we don't know what the Warframes are, or how Transference works, or whether the Warframes are Sentient, and as such anybody claiming that any of their opinions on the matter are a fact is wrong. 

It is safe to assume that warframes are made out of infested flesh based on the Rhino entry and some infested transmissions. Whether they are sentient or not, it's debatable, but I'm more inclined to believe they are not. There are a few reasons to believe that. One reason is that there is hardly any evidence to support it. The Rhino entry shows an infested being that is not a warframe, it was probably just an infested susceptible to a Tenno mind (I will talk about the Second Dream scene later). Another reason is that making a sentient weapon controlled by another sentient being wouldn't make sense from the point of view of its creators. The Orokin had lots of problems with the infested, so it makes sense that they tried not to make the same mistake again and produced vessels with a nervous system but without a functioning brain, or rather a sentient brain. I'm pretty sure warframes have some kind of a brain, but it is there to accomodate the mind of Tenno, rather than warframe itself. Then there is the process of making warframes. We create them in a foundry, which is just a glorified 3D printer. Even if warframes had their own minds they would be completely empty, devoid of knowledge, experience, or instincts. Unless of course Ordis uploads basic information, which is unlikely.

Then we have the scene with the breaking of War. Why do I think it was the Tenno rather than a warframe? For one thing, we were in the transference room after activating the somatic link and we were being killed by the Stalker. The destruction of War might have been the last effort to save ourselves and the link between the operator and the warframe was probably much stronger. Also, while we don't really know how transference works, the Rhino entry shows that it can be remote. The Tenno in the entry were locked in a room and still one of them managed to possess the infested creature. We can't even say if the operator was surprised by the course of events because thay had a hood on. Then there the possibility that it was the Lotus who saved us. After all she has the ability to control warframes for a while and she appeared in the ship after the Stalker disappeared. I saw some people asking why we didn't stand up and kill the Stalker when we had a chance. The answer is that we were weak and dying, so there was probably little we could have done beyond breaking the sword.

There is, however, one thing that intrigues me and I haven't seen it anywhere. During the Second Dream, when we're approaching the Reservoir, we can hear voices from the past and one of them says this: "This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel..." What are the voices? Are warframes talking to us or maybe it is the infested who want us to return to them? Or totally something else. I'd appreciate if someone helped me, I haven't seen any discussion about this particular quote.

 

Anyway, this is my take on warframes, I hope it makes sense. Of course nothing is set in stone and I might be completely wrong about everything, but I'm going to stick to my interpretation until the game provides us with more lore.

[Littlerift]

3 minutes ago, Genitive said:

It is safe to assume that warframes are made out of infested flesh based on the Rhino entry and some infested transmissions. Whether they are sentient or not, it's debatable, but I'm more inclined to believe they are not. There are a few reasons to believe that. One reason is that there is hardly any evidence to support it. The Rhino entry shows an infested being that is not a warframe, it was probably just an infested susceptible to a Tenno mind (I will talk about the Second Dream scene later). Another reason is that making a sentient weapon controlled by another sentient being wouldn't make sense from the point of view of its creators. The Orokin had lots of problems with the infested, so it makes sense that they tried not to make the same mistake again and produced vessels with a nervous system but without a functioning brain, or rather a sentient brain. I'm pretty sure warframes have some kind of a brain, but it is there to accomodate the mind of Tenno, rather than warframe itself. Then there is the process of making warframes. We create them in a foundry, which is just a glorified 3D printer. Even if warframes had their own minds they would be completely empty, devoid of knowledge, experience, or instincts. Unless of course Ordis uploads basic information, which is unlikely.

Then we have the scene with the breaking of War. Why do I think it was the Tenno rather than a warframe? For one thing, we were in the transference room after activating the somatic link and we were being killed by the Stalker. The destruction of War might have been the last effort to save ourselves and the link between the operator and the warframe was probably much stronger. Also, while we don't really know how transference works, the Rhino entry shows that it can be remote. The Tenno in the entry were locked in a room and still one of them managed to possess the infested creature. We can't even say if the operator was surprised by the course of events because thay had a hood on. Then there the possibility that it was the Lotus who saved us. After all she has the ability to control warframes for a while and she appeared in the ship after the Stalker disappeared. I saw some people asking why we didn't stand up and kill the Stalker when we had a chance. The answer is that we were weak and dying, so there was probably little we could have done beyond breaking the sword.

There is, however, one thing that intrigues me and I haven't seen it anywhere. During the Second Dream, when we're approaching the Reservoir, we can hear voices from the past and one of them says this: "This will stop the voices from taking hold. You will have to dream, my angel..." What are the voices? Are warframes talking to us or maybe it is the infested who want us to return to them? Or totally something else. I'd appreciate if someone helped me, I haven't seen any discussion about this particular quote.

 

Anyway, this is my take on warframes, I hope it makes sense. Of course nothing is set in stone and I might be completely wrong about everything, but I'm going to stick to my interpretation until the game provides us with more lore.

All of this is fine because, as you say, nothing is set in stone.

There's nothing wrong with coming up with your own theories about what the lore of Warframe truly is. The problem with this thread is that a certain few individuals are constantly claiming that their view is 100% certain and based in fact while everyone else's is wrong, despite the fact that they don't actually have any more of an enlightened opinion than any other player.

It's funny, because before the Second Dream we had a similar select group of smug voices claiming that they knew everything about how the Warframes and the Tenno worked, and it turned out they couldn't have been more wrong.

[SilentMobius]

7 minutes ago, Genitive said:

It is safe to assume that warframes are made out of infested flesh based on the Rhino entry and some infested transmissions.

Again I strongly object to the use of "flesh" and I think we really don't know what material the Infestation is identifying (if anything) there are so many possibilities that fit the available evidence that the term "Infested flesh" doesn't cover.

At a stretch the closest I'd say we have support for is that "Warframes may contain some material that is related to the infestation, a precursor or specific subset of a wider category." I think anything more specific than that is just unsupported and ripe for false assertions.

And as you said I think that says nothing as to Sentience or Sapience.

Edited March 29, 2016 by SilentMobius

[LightBriite]

On 3/29/2016 at 11:57 AM, (PS4)UltraKardas said:

Except I've pulled direct quotes from the game. My disagreements come from different opinions people have. I even took the entire Rhino Lore and posted it for everyone and quoted the information that makes it almost blatantly clear that it was talking about an iteration of rhino. I think its on page 2. Are you aware of any infested that can turn a security team into red mist then stand looking at its hands? Most infested that I'm aware of are too disfigured to stand up straight and look at their hands. I posted a quote for everyone to see. Unlike Stratego who posts nothing to support his claims, and ignores other peoples evidence.

Accept all that evidence you pointed to are subject to change, do you really think some of the stuff DE has said in the beginning of Warframe's start up have stayed the same now? Before the second dream quest many people believed in the Warframes being people inside them, but thanks to second dream that is not the case anymore. Using codex entries from millenia ago that are so vague and aren't straight forward is just dumb. This game has had complete turn arounds to what the dev's original plans were and it's going to happen in the future as well, it's not only Warframe that's done that, many others games have gone through this before. Unless you have refined evidence that's current and up to date, using old information that conflicts with today's current provided lore is not a good way to make your point.

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by LightBriite