Excalibur radial javelin rework

[swizzybeatzjamz]

Excal is in a pretty good place and I know buffing him in any way can make him op. But him already being strong is no reason why all of his abilities shouldn't be useful. 

Currently radial javelin is meh.... It has a stun, but radial blindstuns better and it has damage that falls off on anything past Ceres. And plus exalted blade and slash dash do it better

Idea1: floating rotating swords that attack enemies when they get close. To provide decent defense. Amount of swords floating around Excalibur can be determined by power strength and how long they stay there duration and range can determine how far the swords will seek an enemy.

Idea2: excal forms a high damaging energy spear and throws it, ricochets to other enemies. Ricochets max 15 times.

Idea3: bring back superjump in a way. Basically you press 3 and basic actions such as jumping and sliding and bullet jump are more intense. Slide kicks will do puncture damage, jumping makes you go extremely high/knocks down enemies. Sliding in general is farther, back flips kick turn into a kick back flip that knocks enemies in the air. Rolling knocks over enemies.

These are some ideas that I think could replace the current lack luster 3rd ability. Thanks for reading.

[-Temp0-]

55 minutes ago, (PS4)Ozone1249953 said:

If it doesn't have scaling from melee mods currently then that is all that needs to be added

It does not. Only exalted blade does. 

And yes, other than that it needs nothing and we all know why.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

I agree.

Radial Javelin is quite useless.

 

Slash Dash: Decent damage; Range; Mobility

Radial Blind: Stun; AOE; Range; Incredible Damage (with finisher)

Exalted Blade: Stun; Knockdown; Range; Excellent Damage

Radial Javelin: AOE; Range; Decent Damage

 

There's just nothing noteworthy about the skill when you look at the rest of his kit.

Not to mention, Slash Dash and Radial Blind (when using finisher) all benefit from Exalted Blade.

[Epsik-kun]

15 hours ago, swizzybeatzjamz said:

lack luster 3rd ability

"lackluster 3rd ability" outperforms EBlade by a landslide for:

1) Speed-run of any non-Spy/Assasination ~T2 level mission;
2) Any dedicated defence up to wave 40 or so;
3) Resource farming;
4) Affinity farming;
5) Focus farming.

It can go up to "on pair" with EBlade for 

1) Any dedicated defence from wave 40 up to wave 60 or so;
2) Speed-run of any non-Spy/Assasination/Sortie mission in the game that can be speed-runned.

RJ Excal performs on pair and better than WoF Ember at low level exterminations;
RJ Excal is a better frame to farm resources than Hydroid on quite a few maps;
RJ is the best global AoE nuke in the game to form a squad around on the majority of maps.
RJ-centered squad is by far the fastest way to do 20 waves of Void Defence and is still probably either the fastest way or is among the fastest ways of doing 40 waves of it.

There's a reason, why RJ Excal is a meta frame, while EBlade Excal is not.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

3 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

"lackluster 3rd ability" outperforms EBlade by a landslide for:

1) Speed-run of any non-Spy/Assasination ~T2 level mission;
2) Any dedicated defence up to wave 40 or so;
3) Resource farming;
4) Affinity farming;
5) Focus farming.

It can go up to "on pair" with EBlade for 

1) Any dedicated defence from wave 40 up to wave 60 or so;
2) Speed-run of any non-Spy/Assasination/Sortie mission in the game that can be speed-runned.

RJ Excal performs on pair and better than WoF Ember at low level exterminations;
RJ Excal is a better frame to farm resources than Hydroid on quite a few maps;
RJ is the best global AoE nuke in the game to form a squad around on the majority of maps.
RJ-centered squad is by far the fastest way to do 20 waves of Void Defence and is still probably either the fastest way or is among the fastest ways of doing 40 waves of it.

There's a reason, why RJ Excal is a meta frame, while EBlade Excal is not.

Unfortunately, it's not the same on sorties.

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Unfortunately, it's not the same on sorties.

4 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

any non-Spy/Assasination/Sortie mission

Such information, much wow.

So, your point is, RJ doesn't win you the game by a button press?

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

5 minutes ago, Epsik-kun said:

Such information, much wow.

So, your point is, RJ doesn't win you the game by a button press?

 

Read the 4th post on this thread. Yours was the 5th by the way.

The point is damage falls off.

CC doesn't.

Radial Blind is clear cut CC.

Exalted Blade can knockdown and also blind. Both are CC.

Slash Dash is good for mobility.

Radial Javelin is just damage and it even comes with a locked animation.

Edited April 4, 2016 by OoKeNnEtHoO

[Epsik-kun]

Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Radial Javelin is just damage and it even comes with a locked animation.

I think, I just explained how RJ is used. You suggest to change RJ for an ability that'll either:

 - be a buff to EBlade build, and that build doesn't need a buff;
 - will do EBlade job much worse than EBlade does its job, while being an absolutely worthless replacement for RJ during RJ comfort zone;
 - another mobility tool for a frame that already can fly over any map in the game.

I can't see the point. I am all up for more synergy, but what you are suggesting aren't synergy - it is either nerfs or redundandcy.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Just now, Epsik-kun said:

I think, I just explained how RJ is used. You suggest to change RJ for an ability that'll either:

 - be a buff to EBlade build, and that build doesn't need a buff;
 - will do EBlade job much worse than EBlade does its job, while being an absolutely worthless replacement for RJ during RJ comfort zone;
 - another mobility tool for a frame that already can fly over any map in the game.

I can't see the point. I am all up for more synergy, but what you are suggesting aren't synergy - it is either nerfs or redundandcy.

Think you should check who is the OP.

I merely stated why Radial Javelin is the least noteworthy in the kit.

[Epsik-kun]

1 minute ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Think you should check who is the OP.

I merely stated why Radial Javelin is the least noteworthy in the kit.

Happens.

 

I merely stated it is the best Excal's tool for like 70% of this game content while being the best tool in the game for at least ~15%.

[swizzybeatzjamz]

Why would you want a tool that is only good 70% of the time that's dumb. Wouldn't you want one that you could use all the time.... That other 30% is late game material which I play. ( actually it's the only reason. I still play) saying the ability is useful at times is the reason I made this thread

[Hellmaker2004]

It deals 1000 damage on up to 12 foes if they survive they get stunned for a short amount of time and with the augment it will proved 60% - 180% more melee damage bonus to Exalted blade.

 

It looks fine for me, i have never seen excalibur lacking in damage.

[shut]

3 hours ago, swizzybeatzjamz said:

Why would you want a tool that is only good 70% of the time that's dumb. Wouldn't you want one that you could use all the time.... That other 30% is late game material which I play. ( actually it's the only reason. I still play) saying the ability is useful at times is the reason I made this thread

Agreed. Might as well be going on about now Mag's and Hydroid's ults are fantastic for lategame because of their damage. (They're not.)

Nearly all of the "things that Javelin is good at" listed above are only worth noting when the Javelin is built for super-high STR and the Excal has an infinite source of energy. And at that point, it's just a generic nuke whose role can be accomplished better by plenty of other frames save for specific map layouts.

 

When you don't waltz into a mission with a minmaxed STR/Range build and an EV Trin in your pocket, Javelin is by far the least helpful ability in Excal's arsenal unless you're playing on the star chart. In terms of general use, it was one of the worst abilities in the game before U16.9; and the only thing that has changed since then is a slight reduction in cast time and energy cost.

I main Excal and I never use this ability. Outside cheesing through low-leveled trash mobs (or leveling up weapons at Draco), there is nothing this ability can accomplish that Blind can't do faster and better. At this point, I would be happy to see it replaced with literally anything else.

[-Temp0-]

20 minutes ago, SortaRandom said:

Agreed. Might as well be going on about now Mag's and Hydroid's ults are fantastic for lategame because of their damage. (They're not.)

Nearly all of the "things that Javelin is good at" listed above are only worth noting when the Javelin is built for super-high STR and the Excal has an infinite source of energy. And at that point, it's just a generic nuke whose role can be accomplished better by plenty of other frames save for specific map layouts.

 

When you don't waltz into a mission with a minmaxed STR/Range build and an EV Trin in your pocket, Javelin is by far the least helpful ability in Excal's arsenal unless you're playing on the star chart. In terms of general use, it was one of the worst abilities in the game before U16.9; and the only thing that has changed since then is a slight reduction in cast time and energy cost.

I main Excal and I never use this ability. Outside cheesing through low-leveled trash mobs (or leveling up weapons at Draco), there is nothing this ability can accomplish that Blind can't do faster and better. At this point, I would be happy to see it replaced with literally anything else.

Yeah only one problem with all that - don't know about you, but pretty much any person who prefer not to waste an eternity leveling their stuff would prefer rj the way it is now. RB and exalted blade alone are more than just "fine", in the eyes of the many already too OP. So keeping one of 4 abilities to mid levels only not that bad, it also prevents excal from being asked to be nerfed to the ground.

[shut]

3 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

Yeah only one problem with all that - don't know about you, but pretty much any person who prefer not to waste an eternity leveling their stuff would prefer rj the way it is now.

That's a ridiculous argument. "Levels up weapons in specific team setups and does nothing else worthwhile" should never be an ability's only "meta" role in a game.

If weapons need easy leveling up, then ask DE to make weapons easier to level up. A warframe of all things should not have to suffer because of this.

 

7 minutes ago, Nomen_Nescio said:

So keeping one of 4 abilities to mid levels only not that bad, it also prevents excal from being asked to be nerfed to the ground.

Having a junk-tier ability does not "balance out" having an overpowered ability. If Exalted Blade is deemed to be too strong, then that should be dealt with separately. The rest of Excal's moveset should not be suffering because of an unrelated ability.

[-Temp0-]

Nothing ridiculous about that. It only means that ability is useful, only not in high levels or solo play somewhere in the void. The fact that you don't like how it scales of how much damage it deals means a little really, especially since we have both EB and RB. 

Yes. Because no one asked them already. Great argument. Excal doesn't really 'suffer' from it - (maybe you do), as he is powerful af even so.

It does not balance it, but I'm pretty sure there was a reason behind making it less powerful. Asking for a different one will just result in receiving equally bad ability and nothing more, as he already has one top-tier damage ability and one pretty good CC/defensive ability already. I personally don't find EB "too strong" and don't want it to become another peacemaker so there's that.

[(PSN)Asdeft]

Are people really rallying for Excalibur buffs? He can have one "ok" ability, right? He is already one of, if not THE, best damage frames in the game with decent utility to boot. RJ is an ability that does everything for you, so it fits its current power budget. 

Edited April 7, 2016 by (PS4)Asdeft

[swizzybeatzjamz]

What you just said is ridiculous farming XP using radial javelin on Draco is one of the problems with warframe currently. And I don't understand why people would want 3 good abilities and one sub par one.  Why can't all frames abilities be useful all the time. Ivara is a perfect example of this

[swizzybeatzjamz]

That's the problem I want to use all 4 d my frames abilities in late game and solo not 3. Why settle all 4 abilities for all frames should be good. Outside of farming.

[Hellmaker2004]

23 minutes ago, swizzybeatzjamz said:

That's the problem I want to use all 4 d my frames abilities in late game and solo not 3. Why settle all 4 abilities for all frames should be good. Outside of farming.

 

This is not something uncommon for almost all frames and at the very least you can still use Radial Javelin for AoE Stun and / or to improve Exalted Blade, there are a lot of other frames who can not even use there other ability's to that exten or in certain cases are so pointless as they do the exactly same thing as another tool in there kit but worse.

Excalibur are in the top of using all ability's one way or another and is in no dire need of a rework if we compare it with other frames.

Edited April 7, 2016 by Hellmaker2004

[-Temp0-]

2 hours ago, Ellthan said:

Slash does DOES scale with melee mods.

The topic is about RJ.

[-Temp0-]

Just now, Ellthan said:

You said that only exalted blade does.

Which is false. Since 2 of excals abilities benefit.

Out of those 2. So that argument is invalid, not to mention completely out of topic as no one was discussing slash dash here.

[akira_him]

The stun of RJ should be at least longer and root enemies, or I will just use RB instead