Saryn's DPS

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

35 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

That would be cool if ya know, spores actually spread toxin procs properly and armor didn't reduce that toxin dot to 10-30~ damage. I'd like to see a nikana prime hit for 90k on a level 135 heavy gunner without corrosive.

 

With body count and 4x multiplier on a corresponding build, not rly a issue...

 

The nikana isn't a pure crit weapon but has definitly a good base to execute it... i mean the difference to the best crit weapons is a 2x instead of 3x multiplier on allmost double the basedamage. Build for ideal poison scaling, focused on crit and basedamage and you have your numbers. The poison scales there according to your damage, especially the gas part... 

I'm not quite sure how the lash part scales tho. Could scale eather from the theoretical or from the actuall damage you do, with falloff in one or two instances. The second option would probably explain the low ticks, what's also a reason i refered to a nikana as mixed status+crit weapon... what you loose in pinpoint damage comes back as radial damage, definitly superior to the damage a gas focused hikou could do....not to mention that it's hardly wise to go at this level without at least one CP... CP+the aura drift wins you quite something solo.

Will test it further in the comming days....DE took theyr sweet time with releasing body count on ps4

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ThatOddDeer]

5 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

With body count and 4x multiplier on a corresponding build, not rly a issue...

 

The nikana isn't a pure crit weapon but has definitly a good base to execute it. Build for ideal poison scaling, focused on crit and basedamage and you have your numbers. The poison scales there according to your damage, especially the gas part... 

I'm not quite sure how the lash part scales tho. Could scale eather from the theoretical or from the actuall damage you do, with falloff in one or two instances. The second option would probably explain the low ticks, what's also a reason i refered to a nikana as mixed status+crit weapon... what you loose in pinpoint damage comes back as radial damage, definitly superior to the damage a gas focused hikou could do....not to mention that it's hardly wise to go at this level without at least one CP... CP+the aura drift wins you quite something solo.

Will test it further in the comming days....DE took theyr sweet time with releasing body count on ps4

As someone that plays a lot with the shadow debt mods, You're lucky to get 10k at 2.5x and not much higher as your combo gets to 3x and 3.5x at level 135 and that's with corrosive against heavy gunners. I can go test with gas and tell you how poorly that will perform. Spore's current output of dps comes from concealed explosives and not hikou Prime. It's just that hikou P takes advantage of super low refresh rate and you kill the targets with base damage rather than toxin scaling.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

13 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

As someone that plays a lot with the shadow debt mods, You're lucky to get 10k at 2.5x and not much higher as your combo gets to 3x and 3.5x at level 135 and that's with corrosive against heavy gunners. I can go test with gas and tell you how poorly that will perform. Spore's current output of dps comes from concealed explosives and not hikou Prime. It's just that hikou P takes advantage of super low refresh rate and you kill the targets with base damage rather than toxin scaling.

The basedamage of what? Hikou? You're telling me that a hikou prime has a higher damage output then a nikana? It can't be the spores damage eather as the scaling procc needs toxic to reset. And 10k? Fine, Lets recap the calculation: 5-7k toxic after 2 hits, depending on how well lash scales.

~6k x 9 x 36 

54k x 36 first hikou move

Lets say you procc 9 times on a single enemy: 

486k x 9 x 36

Who could even think that the toxic part does something...

Higher damage base, higher poison. Easy as that.

And how comes evryone else is telling that you have massive overkill untill lvl 250 and you say that you do nearly nothing?

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The basedamage of what? Hikou? You're telling me that a hikou prime has a higher damage output then a nikana? It can't be the spores damage eather as the scaling procc needs toxic to reset. And 10k? Fine, Lets recap the calculation: 5-7k toxic after 2 hits, depending on how well lash scales.

~6k x 9 x 36 

54k x 36 first hikou move

Lets say you procc 9 times on a single enemy: 

486k x 9 x 36

Who could even think that the toxic part does something...

Higher damage base, higher poison. Easy as that.

And how comes evryone else is telling that you have massive overkill untill lvl 250 and you say that you do nearly nothing?

No, I meant nikana prime. 

The first part of my response was discussing how spore works in its most popular states, with hikou prime. 

The second part was discussing your gross over-estimation of how toxic lash, nikana prime with shadow debt and spores work together. I can get a video for you in a second after I finish this small assignment

[taiiat]

12 hours ago, Eureka.seveN said:

But it should because ATM, misama does nothing, its useless.

just always mentioning it because people always refer to Miasma as if Corrosive Status is something it's ever had in the past.

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, taiiat said:

just always mentioning it because people always refer to Miasma as if Corrosive Status is something it's ever had in the past.

At one point it inflicted a singular corrosive proc on initial cast. But that was ages ago and I can't remember when it was removed. Currently it applies a corrosive proc on death to trigger a special death animation.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

59 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

No, I meant nikana prime. 

The first part of my response was discussing how spore works in its most popular states, with hikou prime. 

The second part was discussing your gross over-estimation of how toxic lash, nikana prime with shadow debt and spores work together. I can get a video for you in a second after I finish this small assignment

"Exageration"...

Lets do some math. The king in the critweapon category should be the dual razas with a basedamage of ~50, 20% crit chance and 3x crit multiplier.

Compare them on similar builds:

Pressure point, full crit

110 dmg on 5,7 multiplier and lets say 4x red crit -> 116k.

Nikana would do

220 dmg on 3,8 multiplier -> 45k

The king of this kategory does a little over double the damage while you gain poison from the nikana which definitly doesn't go trough double falloff. Bonus elemental damage is balanced with the additional gain trough the higher basedamage. Lets continue...

116k-> 34,8k poison in 2 hits, possibly affected by double falloff.

45k with appropiate status -> 33,75k poison with 2 hits without overkilling that long and a big part that definitly doesn't fall off twice.

 

The poison you do is about equal. The raw damage just varrys. Sooo, you loose the overkill with a nikana and can use the mechanics to its fullest. Of course you kill with the basedamage of a hikou if you -> play for it. You'd get better results with melee infused poison tho ~

As 33,75 x 9 x 36 when destroying 9 spores.

But go ahead and continue calling bug on the spread or the hikou supperior to the nikana in therms of damage. If that's the source of your happyness, who am i to blame.

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ThatOddDeer]

14 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

"Exageration"...

Lets do some math. The king in the critweapon category should be the dual razas with a basedamage of ~50, 20% crit chance and 3x crit multiplier.

Compare them on similar builds:

Pressure point, full crit

110 dmg on 5,7 multiplier and lets say 4x red crit -> 116k.

Nikana would do

220 dmg on 3,8 multiplier -> 45k

The king of this kategory does a little over double the damage while you gain poison from the nikana which definitly doesn't go trough double falloff. 

116k-> 34,8k poison in 2 hits

45k with appropiate status -> 33,75k poison with 2 hits without overkilling that long.

 

The poison you do is about equal. The raw damage just varrys. Sooo, you loose the overkill with a nikana and can use the mechanics to its fullest. Of course you kill with the basedamage of a hikou if you -> play for it. You'd get better results with melee infused poison tho ~

you're completely ignoring armor. Which is saryn's biggest obstacle. You can continue to willfully ignore my firsthand experience for your conjecture. I'll link a video showing you Both the nikana prime, dual ichors and prisma dual cleavers soon. Also shame on you for thinking dual raza's are best in class, they're far from it when weapons like the prisma dual cleavers, dual kamas prime and dual ichor exist

Edited April 5, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

54 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

you're completely ignoring armor. Which is saryn's biggest obstacle. You can continue to willfully ignore my firsthand experience for your conjecture. I'll link a video showing you Both the nikana prime, dual ichors and prisma dual cleavers soon. Also shame on you for thinking dual raza's are best in class, they're far from it when weapons like the prisma dual cleavers, dual kamas prime and dual ichor exist

Evrything falls off armor to the same extend. Hikous damage, spores, poison, melee. That's no argumentation against a nikana prime. Why would it be? The percentage stays solid. 

And i've allready made a calc in consideration of the armor falloff. Still results in idealy

6k x 9 x 36

> 486k x 9 x 36

>>~39kk x 9 x 36

As her frickin spread scales exponential to the present poison...

 

So what's your point exactly? That you rather not use melee? That you don't wanna use a nikana? Go ahead. Don't. Noone is forcing you to. Just note that these are actuall mechanics of her and that the nikana fits the ideal of this mechanic pretty good.

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ThatOddDeer]

 

Here's a showcase of 3 amazing endgame weapons modded to shred and/or ignore armor via usage of corrosive and slash procs. I also make use of the critical bleeding technique caused by slamming/knocking down targets while they're suffering from slash proc(s). 

The highest critical I saw was a red crit with my dual ichors hovering around 22k on a downed target afflicted by multiple corrosive procs. What usually kill enemies was slash procs + slams with the nikana prime and prisma dual cleavers and corrosive procs and occasional bleed procs from my dual ichors, as swirling tiget inflicts 2 slash procs on ground finisher. This is not 90k at 3x multiplier with shadow debt. Anything more than 30k is ridiculous even with ground finishers on a weapon that destroys armor. Toxic lash was nice bonus damage and a way to regen energy and spore was useful for cutting hp. The spreading of toxin via spores and toxic lash was not a major contributor in the slightest

Edited April 5, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Gladly on any frame that is not saryn. I use a similar concept on my banshee ~ with armor shred trough her sonic boom and viral+slash for bonus on halved health and bypassing of shields. But why wouldn't i use exponential, radial scaling? Seriously.

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[ThatOddDeer]

Just now, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Gladly on any frame that is not saryn. I use a similar concept on my banshee ~ with armor shred trough her sonic boom and viral+slash for bonus on halved health and bypassing of shields. But why wouldn't i use exponential scaling? Seriously.

This is meant to show that saryn's kit is not the impetus for endgame viability. I am more than aware of banshee completely eclipsing melee saryn. The point of this video was to prove you wrong and show that saryn could use some positive adjustments, which it seems it did. Also viral damage doesn't bypass shields, viral proc does. 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

26 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

This is meant to show that saryn's kit is not the impetus for endgame viability. I am more than aware of banshee completely eclipsing melee saryn. The point of this video was to prove you wrong and show that saryn could use some positive adjustments, which it seems it did. Also viral damage doesn't bypass shields, viral proc does. 

Slash does. Obviously better on halfed health 

And you litterall fought with a melee weapon in your "saryn showcase". Correct me if i'm wrong but what part of her kit did you utilice correctly? .... no spores, no poison spread, no mass spore destruction to multispread the poison. You are litteraly complaining about the game not bending to your will at this point.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Go ahead, make a new one. But this time set spores and poison and start shooting hikous once they have both, poison and spores on them.

[ThatOddDeer]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Slash does. Obviously better on halfed health 

And you litterall fought with a melee weapon in your "saryn showcase". Correct me if i'm wrong but what part of her kit did you utilice correctly? .... no spores, no poison spread, no mass spore destruction to multispread the poison. You are litteraly complaining about the game not bending to your will at this point.

Toxic lash spreads spores and inflict toxin proc. L

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

22 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Toxic lash spreads spores and inflict toxin proc. L

 

Edit: nvm. White. Unrelevant recast tho, just to use the viral.

Now, it spreads per spore, lash popps one spore per hit. Try chaining the destruction of the max spore quantity with hikous after you set the potent melee poison. This concept acts as multiplier ~

Edited April 5, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[akira_him]

that miasma removed the first spore, the rest of the enemy did not have spores until your second cast

Edited April 5, 2016 by akira_him

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, akira_him said:

that miasma removed the first spore, the rest of the enemy did have spores until your second cast

the miasma was to stun them so I could get invisible relatively safely. Saryn isn't durable enough to survive 20 heavy gunners focusing her down.

Also miasma can spread spores and having spores on enemies does barely anything anyways. I re-casted spore when it would be relevant to cut the hp of all nearby enemies.

Edited April 5, 2016 by ThatOddDeer

[akira_him]

10 minutes ago, ThatOddDeer said:

the miasma was to stun them so I could get invisible relatively safely. Saryn isn't durable enough to survive 20 heavy gunners focusing her down.

Also miasma can spread spores.

molt can spread spores, not miasma, if you detonate a molt either by recast or miasma, it spreads, miasma only spread spore by killing enemy because of the auto pop feature of spores

and actually i was wrong, in your video, the spore appear on the enemies after your first melee strike, not second cast, which I believe it is the effect of toxic lash

Edited April 5, 2016 by akira_him

[ThatOddDeer]

2 minutes ago, akira_him said:

molt can spread spores, not miasma, if you detonate a molt either by recast or miasma, it spreads, miasma only spread spore by killing enemy because of the auto pop feature of spores

and actually i was wrong, in your video, the spore appear on the enemies after your first melee strike, not second cast, which I believe it is the effect of toxic lash

Miasma can spread spores if the spore lines up on a specific part of the body, I'm not sure which but I've seen it happen before.

And yea, toxic lash is what spreads the spores for me.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

4 minutes ago, akira_him said:

molt can spread spores, not miasma, if you detonate a molt either by recast or miasma, it spreads

and actually i was wrong, in your video, the spore appear on the enemies after your first melee strike, not second cast, which I believe it is the effect of toxic lash

Well that statement is not entirely wrong. Spores act towards miasama like any other radial damage source. Spore on the chest=destroyed and spread.

 

Just a bad choice of color. Point is still, he is using the possible minimum of spread. Destroying more spores then one at a time spreads poison the same way it does while attacking with lash, x up to 9! This is where her magic happens. Nowhere below.

[PrincessPilfer]

3 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

Here's a showcase of 3 amazing endgame weapons modded to shred and/or ignore armor via usage of corrosive and slash procs. I also make use of the critical bleeding technique caused by slamming/knocking down targets while they're suffering from slash proc(s). 

The highest critical I saw was a red crit with my dual ichors hovering around 22k on a downed target afflicted by multiple corrosive procs. What usually kill enemies was slash procs + slams with the nikana prime and prisma dual cleavers and corrosive procs and occasional bleed procs from my dual ichors, as swirling tiget inflicts 2 slash procs on ground finisher. This is not 90k at 3x multiplier with shadow debt. Anything more than 30k is ridiculous even with ground finishers on a weapon that destroys armor. Toxic lash was nice bonus damage and a way to regen energy and spore was useful for cutting hp. The spreading of toxin via spores and toxic lash was not a major contributor in the slightest

level 135 is well beyond endgame content and most everything that doesn't specifically ignore or dramatically reduce armor suffers against heavy gunners. There are exceptions, but again we're comparing apples to oranges.

 

We have no comparison without the other status so we can't say how much toxic mattered.

 

Even if we did you sitting there wailing on 1 enemy and running it out of spores instead of bouncing them back and forth is hardly the ideal way to play Saryn, and what is not shown in the all heavies situation is that everything even remotely near that group of heavies (often exceeding even the range of the spores you are hitting as enemies near the edge die and spread them farther out still) would more or less melt without you having to do anything to them directly.

[Ivan_Rid]

5 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

Here's a showcase of 3 amazing endgame weapons modded to shred and/or ignore armor via usage of corrosive and slash procs. I also make use of the critical bleeding technique caused by slamming/knocking down targets while they're suffering from slash proc(s). 

The highest critical I saw was a red crit with my dual ichors hovering around 22k on a downed target afflicted by multiple corrosive procs. What usually kill enemies was slash procs + slams with the nikana prime and prisma dual cleavers and corrosive procs and occasional bleed procs from my dual ichors, as swirling tiget inflicts 2 slash procs on ground finisher. This is not 90k at 3x multiplier with shadow debt. Anything more than 30k is ridiculous even with ground finishers on a weapon that destroys armor. Toxic lash was nice bonus damage and a way to regen energy and spore was useful for cutting hp. The spreading of toxin via spores and toxic lash was not a major contributor in the slightest

Very nice demonstration. Can you do another one with Gas modded weapons and include Atterax as well (for mass spore popping), pretty please? It will be very useful for linking in any future discussions.

edit: also please try spawning 20 drakh master to get a proper target rich enviroment for spores.

 

Edited April 5, 2016 by Ivan_Rid

[alergiclaprosti]

5 hours ago, ThatOddDeer said:

 

Here's a showcase of 3 amazing endgame weapons modded to shred and/or ignore armor via usage of corrosive and slash procs. I also make use of the critical bleeding technique caused by slamming/knocking down targets while they're suffering from slash proc(s). 

The highest critical I saw was a red crit with my dual ichors hovering around 22k on a downed target afflicted by multiple corrosive procs. What usually kill enemies was slash procs + slams with the nikana prime and prisma dual cleavers and corrosive procs and occasional bleed procs from my dual ichors, as swirling tiget inflicts 2 slash procs on ground finisher. This is not 90k at 3x multiplier with shadow debt. Anything more than 30k is ridiculous even with ground finishers on a weapon that destroys armor. Toxic lash was nice bonus damage and a way to regen energy and spore was useful for cutting hp. The spreading of toxin via spores and toxic lash was not a major contributor in the slightest

cute..... now do that  without Naramon.

[(PSN)Crimson_Judgment]

2 minutes ago, alergiclaprosti said:

cute..... now do that  without Naramon.

While they Aren't Level 135 it's as close as i could get It is without Naramon And Shadow Debt Mods though