Defense Rewards Need Another Change

[MonsterPig]

As the title says, defense rewards still need fixing. People complained about two things before the latest change: the reward pool was unbalanced (hellfires and streamlines) and that it didn't scale. Tier 1-3 is hardly fixing the scaling problem because the higher defense missions start on tier 3, making wave 5 the same as wave 150 in terms of completion reward... DE even mentioned players reaching wave 50 and that it wasn't right for them to get a hellfire... and that it had to be fixed... So how is wave 5, on Pluto defense for example, giving the same completion reward at wave 50 a solution?

 

I've noticed most players are opting out at wave 5 or 10 if they weren't satisfied with 5's reward, and don't go much higher because... well why would you? The rewards and %'s do not change. To go past wave 10 is actually punishable to the player because the difficulty increases and the reward is the same. Players need incentive.  I shouldn't be rewarded a master thief or thunderbolt mod at wave 5 of Xini. It feels like a steal, not earned.

 

The only defense that feels somewhat right are the lower lvled defense missions that eventually scale from tier 1 to 3 so you see a change in rewards, but it's just easier to skip 1-2 by going to higher lvled defense (which is logical).

 

Some suggestions: Add some high ranked fusion cores or something (what's up with these unranked cores?) and increase their rank the farther the wave completion. Increase rare mods reward rate % in the pool the farther you go and make it more rare at wave 5 than what it is right now. Add other things to defense at higher waves to make it more interesting like material caches or introduce new blueprints to higher wave defense. This would give players incentive to reach high waves. Incentive makes the game more fun. Having a goal is important. Being exclusively rewarded for reaching a high wave feels GOOD. So yeah, DE, you should get to doing that. :]

[Smitty12212]

+1 I really like this idea.  People just run palus or xini to wave 5-10 and then quit if there isnt anything good.  This definately needs to be fixed.

[Ganpot]

I came into this forum expecting a rant against Void Keys.  You pleasantly avoided my expectations, and I must say that I agree with you.  Games need risk vs reward mechanics, and the current Defense mission rewards do not adhere to that standard. 

[FryingSaucePan]

For me, defense is the most fun part of endgame because you can put your equipment and frames to the test. This makes it really important. Other than that its farming which isn't as fun, and the void lost my interest rather quickly. Especially after you complete your Frost and Latron (which didn't take very long) and the void starts to feel like farming if you are trying to get free forma.

 

 

Anyway, just like before the changes, going to high waves is more for S#&$s than for reward. This needs to change. Agreed. +1

[.Fyr.]

+1 great ideas

[fatpig84]

Make the following rewards for high end games only.

 

Serration

Split Chamber

Hornet Strike

Barrel Diffusion

Point Blank

Hell's Chamber

 

HELLL YEAAAAAAAAAAH

[EncycloWikipedia]

that's very nice idea.

[Frostosti]

make the special blue clan resources only drop in wave 20+ ^^

[ArsVampyre]

I'd like them to fix the fusion core rewards; right now they're just freaking broken.

[MonsterPig]

I'd like them to fix the fusion core rewards; right now they're just freaking broken.

Totally agree. Wouldn't it be sweet if they got higher ranked too at higher waves. It'd be more fun to run high wave defense than farm Kappa for mods for that Serration or Hornet Strike you'll be working on.

[Ropes]

I would like to see a better scaling system as well for defense missions.  I think that even increasing the number of tiers would be a huge benefit (like 10-20 tiers).  That way, the higher level planets can still start at tier 3, but they don't automatically get the best loot.

 

The type of loot could also be increased at the higher tiers and here are some ideas:

-increase the number of loot items that are rewarded (so now you could get 2 mods or a tower key+a mod)

-include more items in the reward system like forma/potato blueprints (If I spent 4 hours with my team getting to wave 100, that seems worthy of a potato reward). Of course this would be a low chance on the top tier of the reward system.

-include resource rewards that scale to the level or tier you are on (tier 1 = 1 orokin cell; tier 10 = 10 orokin cells; this can be done for any resource with appropriate numbers).  This would allow clans to work together to farm large chunks of specific resources for Dojo builds.

[Phoenix86]

before it was crap anywhere, not can be nice anywhere

 

what i understand here is that you want crap till wave 10-15 and nice above only, am i right?

[MonsterPig]

before it was crap anywhere, not can be nice anywhere

 

what i understand here is that you want crap till wave 10-15 and nice above only, am i right?

No. Read more carefully and look at feedback, such as Ropes suggestions. It's about incentive to continue. Tell me how it makes sense that the rewards for wave 5 (tier 3) are still the same at wave 100 (tier 3)? As someone already stated, risk vs reward needs more balance. If you want rewards with little to no risk then I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with that approach. It dulls the game.

[Fohawks]

before it was crap anywhere, not can be nice anywhere

 

what i understand here is that you want crap till wave 10-15 and nice above only, am i right?

 

 

No, we're asking for a very low chance to get something good at the lower tiers, and a higher % chance to be rewarded for the more difficult tiers. 

Some people play defense missions for the challenge and to see how far they can push their frames and their team, while others play for the reward. 

 

Defense missions are a big success in the sense that they are a challenge - and that alone is enough of an incentive for some players (like me) to participate in the missions - the reward to me is just an ancillary benefit.

 

That being said, at this moment, there is no prestige or reward for overcoming the later and more difficult waves. 

 

If you had the same % chance of winning $1,000,000 by buying a $1 scratch and win ticket as you did buying a $5 scratch and win ticket, why would you ever buy a $5 scratch and win ticket?

 

DE needs to tweek their incentive / reward / time investment formula to entice players to push toward higher and more challenging waves.

Edited June 12, 2013 by Fohawks

[CrazyCatLad]

Wave 5 is very economical too.  You have ample time to farm, I mean break the containers for resources (why would you mine or grow spores in controlled environments??), get some mods and restart.

[Bierkasten]

Or you can make it so that any reward you don't choose is removed from the next drop pool, increasing your chance of getting something you wanted!

[EaglesLanding]

good idea

[Keie]

Trouble is "difficulty increases" don't happen. Although I agree there should be a tier 4 the high waves need to be difficult, instead of just meat that give low experience for time spent.

[Xylia]

What I don't want to see, is for high wave defenses to be REQUIRED in order to get something, though.

 

If you stick awesome stuff on very high tiers of defense, then it gets to be that few players ever have a hope of seeing it.

 

I'm all up for giving people more reasons to do higher waves, but let's not exclude peeps who can't get to 20+, 30+, 50+. Not everybody is capable of that for whatever reason.

 

High Ranked Fusion Cores could be a start; you can get normals out of sheer grind. That was a good idea I saw in this thread. Multishot mods... meh, sure. As long as they still drop other places too. Could even stick some Vauban in there too.

[Fuilteach]

High Ranked Fusion Cores could be a start; you can get normals out of sheer grind. That was a good idea I saw in this thread. Multishot mods... meh, sure. As long as they still drop other places too. Could even stick some Vauban in there too.

 

Love the idea of adding random Vauban parts to higher waves.

[Bakim0n0]

While I agree with this in theory, I wanted to point out that even if they made higher wave rewards scale the overwhelming bulk of public matches will still go to wave 5 or 10; largely because there is no real way to assure group makeup and communication is pretty spotty.

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Gentlemen... STAHP it please... (at least just for now)

We just got it good for less than a week...

Give some of us a chance to catch up with you end-gamers. Ya'll don't care because you got all the stuff you want already.

Plz STAHP... Lol.

[MonsterPig]

While I agree with this in theory, I wanted to point out that even if they made higher wave rewards scale the overwhelming bulk of public matches will still go to wave 5 or 10; largely because there is no real way to assure group makeup and communication is pretty spotty.

This is what clans and friends are for. DE encourages clans. I only do defense missions with my clan-mates, especially ones on our voice server. We should be rewarded for this type of gaming.

 

Regardless, I don't think the suggestions on this thread are really focusing on putting the hammer on more casual players. We mainly want a buff for higher waves.

[BIossome]

Check this out, reward to scale.

 

http://warframe.saithis.de/

[-CM-Chips]

I feel for the topic at hand. It's not lower level defenses that are the problem. It's the high-level defenses like xini and outer terminus that are incredibly boring and broken. I mean, you're practically guaranteed a void key (t2+) if you go up to wave 10 on any of these maps. Why give out all the good stuff right away?

 

Anyway, I like the idea of fusion cores ranking up with the higher waves. Like every 5 waves there's a possibility of having a fusion core with an additional notch in it be the exit reward. Maybe this could even go past the traditional amount of notches presented on a normal fusion core. So by the time you reach wave 100, you have the chance of getting a fusion core that's worth the same as 10 rare 5's. (Just an example).

 

Either way, high-level defenses need a change.