[Operation: Cornucopia] Fixing The Farming - Masterthread.

[notionphil]

• Make count what we kill. ~ adjusting drop tables for enemies, split into trash mobs, heavies and bosses.

 

The RNG is an excellent system for extending content, adding 'risk/challenge' and amplifying excitment...but it's a little out of hand in Warframe. There shoud be limits. Every time you face a challenge and are victorious, you should be rewarded. You might not get exactly what you want, but you should get something good.

 

You should never kill a boss and get Ferrite.

 

hmmm.....I would say that all bosses should always drop a rare component, but the issue here is that 90% of the active playerbase probably finds all boss encounters trivial. And you can infinitely and instantly re-run boss missions.

 

The closest thing in Warframe to a repeatable but not infinitely accessible challenge is the Void. As far as I know the Void doesnt have bosses. (I think I am missing one void 3 mission type still).

 

-Give the Void mini bosses.

-They can be buffed existing boss models for the time being, with Void coloring.

-On death, each should have a 100% chance of dropping a rare material and a 10% chance of dropping a rare/alert only item bp(vauban helm etc).

-Each mission type Miniboss drops a specifc rare :T1 exterminate = Morphics, T2 exterminate = orokin cell, etc...

Edited June 14, 2013 by notionphil

[notionphil]

• Add resource alerts. ~ reworking the alerts to become meaningful, rather than mere teases/annoyances

 

I don't even know what the discussion would be here, this just needs to happen :) You guys will figure out the correct amount and frequency.

[Excitonex]

Did you reset or join since the introduction of U8? Because if not, materials carried over from previous iterations of the game are not exactly applicable for the sake of an argument. The acquisition of 15 Control Modules alone can take over 60 runs of the Hyena.

I started in 7.6 so while I did have a small stockpile most of that is gained post-U8, farming mats for my dojo. The idea is to get these things while you're farming other stuff. I barely ever run bosses and I have tons of rare mats because I have to farm so many common and uncommon resources to build what I need.

[Ced23Ric]

Stil does not defuse the current fact that getting 15 Control Modules can easily take 60 Hyena runs. And they just don't drop willy-nilly while you do other stuff as you make it seem, either. I ran Eris lst night, 10 missions, in full scrounge mode, with Masterthief & Thief's Wit, both maxed, and included one run at the Phorrid. Total Neurodes from those entire 10 missions (incl. one boss run): 1 Neurodes. And it did not drop from the boss.

 

I see what you are saying, and if it would work like that, I wouldn't not have made these threads. It doesn't.

[Excitonex]

Stil does not defuse the current fact that getting 15 Control Modules can easily take 60 Hyena runs. And they just don't drop willy-nilly while you do other stuff as you make it seem, either. I ran Eris lst night, 10 missions, in full scrounge mode, with Masterthief & Thief's Wit, both maxed, and included one run at the Phorrid. Total Neurodes from those entire 10 missions (incl. one boss run): 1 Neurodes. And it did not drop from the boss.

 

I see what you are saying, and if it would work like that, I wouldn't not have made these threads. It doesn't.

Well we can both agree that bosses should drop rare resources more frequently. The thing I'm worried about is if you change things to make rare resources easier to get you're going to make the common and uncommons much harder to get. This is a big deal for people in small clans.

[Ced23Ric]

If you take a look at all four of my proposals, you will find that I did not change the common and uncommon resources in any significant manner. A boss cannot be a valid source for common/uncommon resources.

[unmog]

*agrees with Ced and bumps to make sure everyone has a chance to get involved and share their opinions*

 

We get a ton of new threads in this forum...

[Excitonex]

If you take a look at all four of my proposals, you will find that I did not change the common and uncommon resources in any significant manner. A boss cannot be a valid source for common/uncommon resources.

The way I see it the only change you want to make is to make rare resources not rare anymore. I think they should retain their rarity compared to commons and uncommons because all resources are difficult to farm for someone. Bosses shouldn't drop commons, I have agreed multiple times. My stance stems from the fact that introducing some of these changes does essentially nothing, like changing which type of regular enemies drop which resources.

 

I also don't want to see alerts that hand out only rare resources because that DOESN'T fix the alert system to be more valuable than the 2k alerts. It would fix it for some people who only need the rare resources but there's people who need commons and uncommons much more. For this reason I would like to see alerts give all types of resources.

 

Missions that hand out large amounts of a specific resource, if implemented with the alert changes, would detract from the alerts so I believe only one of these should be implemented. I don't fore see this being added but if it is I think it should be an alert specific mission type rather than something people can choose to do all the time as it may trivialize resource gathering. I would rather DE find a different solution resource gathering, like a mod that increases the resources gained from each stack for example.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Excitonex

[Ced23Ric]

The way I see it the only change you want to make is to make rare resources not rare anymore.

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way, because that is not what I am suggesting at all. In all honesty, it feels to me as if you have decided for yourself how to interpret the proposals and stopped thinking about them, now that you have an opinion. "It's fine." is a possible standpoint, but it is far from a sensible one.

 

To give an example, in 11h of gameplay today, I made the sum of 3 Orokin Cells, 3 Neurodes, 1 Neural Sensor, 2 Morphics, 1 Gallium, 1 Control Module.

 

Broken down, that means that it took 1 hour to receive 1 rare material, give or take, and extrapolated on the entire bunch, we are looking at over 125 hours of pure boss-farming, just for materials. That is no alert to the side, no void runs, no defense runs, no unlocking the map, not farming for the uncommon or uncommon ressources, and non-specific farming for blueprints. That is not a number for a casual gamer. Let's say the casual gamer plays Warframe for an hour every day, three on the weekend. With a rounded-up 10 hours a week, it would take him 13 weeks just to get the parts to make stuff, and that doesn't include frames yet - just weapons. In that time, he wouldn't have anything else ahead of him, just murdering the same bosses over and over.

 

"It's fne." does not apply. There is hardly a way to apply skill/player decisions to reduce the grind, the feeling of reliable reward isn't there, and if anything, bosses dropping a faction material and another common mod is nothing but insulting. A S#&$ty boss drop invalidates and entire boss run. Streaks of bad luck can hold on for a long time. There is no measure of effort to reward currently.

 

And that is what I want to change.

 

Make rewards appear for effort.

Give player's the option to decide what they farm for.

Make their action have tangible effect on their gains.

 

Sadly, you stopped processing these things way before you should have and now seem to disagree on principle. I mean, I don't have to convince you. Nevertheless, claiming that the current distribution or rare materials is "fine" and that one collects them "on the way" is a wild overexaggeration of a cruel, disheartening system that does not pay credit to your input. Respectfully, I dismiss your position, as it simply is not reflected in the game as of these days. You may feel that it is different, and you are entitled to that. Additionally, feel free to display how collecting 15 Control Modules for Clan Research weaponry is even remotely enjoyable, controllable or reliable.

 

Cheers.

[Excitonex]

 

I'm sorry that you feel this way, because that is not what I am suggesting at all. In all honesty, it feels to me as if you have decided for yourself how to interpret the proposals and stopped thinking about them, now that you have an opinion. "It's fine." is a possible standpoint, but it is far from a sensible one.

 

To give an example, in 11h of gameplay today, I made the sum of 3 Orokin Cells, 3 Neurodes, 1 Neural Sensor, 2 Morphics, 1 Gallium, 1 Control Module.

 

Broken down, that means that it took 1 hour to receive 1 rare material, give or take, and extrapolated on the entire bunch, we are looking at over 125 hours of pure boss-farming, just for materials. That is no alert to the side, no void runs, no defense runs, no unlocking the map, not farming for the uncommon or uncommon ressources, and non-specific farming for blueprints. That is not a number for a casual gamer. Let's say the casual gamer plays Warframe for an hour every day, three on the weekend. With a rounded-up 10 hours a week, it would take him 13 weeks just to get the parts to make stuff, and that doesn't include frames yet - just weapons. In that time, he wouldn't have anything else ahead of him, just murdering the same bosses over and over.

 

"It's fne." does not apply. There is hardly a way to apply skill/player decisions to reduce the grind, the feeling of reliable reward isn't there, and if anything, bosses dropping a faction material and another common mod is nothing but insulting. A S#&$ty boss drop invalidates and entire boss run. Streaks of bad luck can hold on for a long time. There is no measure of effort to reward currently.

 

And that is what I want to change.

 

Make rewards appear for effort.

Give player's the option to decide what they farm for.

Make their action have tangible effect on their gains.

 

Sadly, you stopped processing these things way before you should have and now seem to disagree on principle. I mean, I don't have to convince you. Nevertheless, claiming that the current distribution or rare materials is "fine" and that one collects them "on the way" is a wild overexaggeration of a cruel, disheartening system that does not pay credit to your input. Respectfully, I dismiss your position, as it simply is not reflected in the game as of these days. You may feel that it is different, and you are entitled to that. Additionally, feel free to display how collecting 15 Control Modules for Clan Research weaponry is even remotely enjoyable, controllable or reliable.

 

Cheers.

It would seem that you misunderstand my stance. I'm not saying resources are fine at the moment. I'm saying they are all equally hard to farm and so focusing on changing just the rare resources is not the way to go about changing things. A group of casual players trying to farm for their dojo will take much longer than the time it takes to get the rare resources you need to build every weapon or frame. So, I want to see some of your changes implemented for all resources.

[Ced23Ric]

So, I want to see some of your changes implemented for all resources.

 

See, that is where I simply have to shrug, because you evidently did not read my proposals. I am addressing all levels of rarity, from common to rare. I don't think that we can have a meaningful discussion if you do not read the short threads I made there. To summarize:

• Mob drop tables: Remove commons/uncommon/faction mats from bosses - they are inconsequential sources for those materials and should reward players for downing them, not taunt them with +74 Ferrite. Common/Uncommon materials stay on trash mobs and elites, as is. This has next to no impact on making the situation worse for all resources, other than making boss kills more meaningful.
• Resource Alerts: These should be rare, and sought-after. Hitting one of these is an alternative to cash-only alerts, giving a quick, unexpected boost to one rare resource. No negative impact on other materials, simply a way of shooting for a specific material that is in high demand and low supply. A bandaid, if you will.
• Missiontype: Acquisition is all about common/uncommon resources, to answer high-yield requirements of clan construction and research. Very specifically so, with rare resources being an additional thought by another poster. The core deals with making large quantities of common resources farmable without repeatedly scrounging M Prime solo, and adding some replayability and fun to the concept of acquiring resources.
• Lootrooms: Have elevated drop chances for materials, focus on rare and uncommon, to make them stand out over the common/uncommon drops of the wild. Nevertheless, elevaed chance does not mean 75% - but more like the 20% of the Void on rares.

Hope this helps you. Feel free to read up on those threads and comment there, too. You seem fairly competent in general, I'd love to get your input on the four approaches. Not in a vacuum, they are connected for a reason, mind you. And ... read them, don't just assume you know the contents by taking a glance here. :)

[Excitonex]

 

See, that is where I simply have to shrug, because you evidently did not read my proposals. I am addressing all levels of rarity, from common to rare. I don't think that we can have a meaningful discussion if you do not read the short threads I made there. To summarize:

• Mob drop tables: Remove commons/uncommon/faction mats from bosses - they are inconsequential sources for those materials and should reward players for downing them, not taunt them with +74 Ferrite. Common/Uncommon materials stay on trash mobs and elites, as is. This has next to no impact on making the situation worse for all resources, other than making boss kills more meaningful.
• Resource Alerts: These should be rare, and sought-after. Hitting one of these is an alternative to cash-only alerts, giving a quick, unexpected boost to one rare resource. No negative impact on other materials, simply a way of shooting for a specific material that is in high demand and low supply. A bandaid, if you will.
• Missiontype: Acquisition is all about common/uncommon resources, to answer high-yield requirements of clan construction and research. Very specifically so, with rare resources being an additional thought by another poster. The core deals with making large quantities of common resources farmable without repeatedly scrounging M Prime solo, and adding some replayability and fun to the concept of acquiring resources.
• Lootrooms: Have elevated drop chances for materials, focus on rare and uncommon, to make them stand out over the common/uncommon drops of the wild. Nevertheless, elevaed chance does not mean 75% - but more like the 20% of the Void on rares.

Hope this helps you. Feel free to read up on those threads and comment there, too. You seem fairly competent in general, I'd love to get your input on the four approaches. Not in a vacuum, they are connected for a reason, mind you. And ... read them, don't just assume you know the contents by taking a glance here. :)

 

I'm unsure why you feel the need to constantly tell me to read your posts. If I had not read them I would not post, please stop. If you read my posts you'll see which of your suggestions I disagree with, which I agree with, and why. Rather than simply disagree I prefer to offer my view and suggestions on how to improve, is this not what you want?

[Ced23Ric]

The way I see it the only change you want to make is to make rare resources not rare anymore. I think they should retain their rarity compared to commons and uncommons because all resources are difficult to farm for someone. Bosses shouldn't drop commons, I have agreed multiple times. My stance stems from the fact that introducing some of these changes does essentially nothing, like changing which type of regular enemies drop which resources.

 

I also don't want to see alerts that hand out only rare resources because that DOESN'T fix the alert system to be more valuable than the 2k alerts. It would fix it for some people who only need the rare resources but there's people who need commons and uncommons much more. For this reason I would like to see alerts give all types of resources.

 

Missions that hand out large amounts of a specific resource, if implemented with the alert changes, would detract from the alerts so I believe only one of these should be implemented. I don't fore see this being added but if it is I think it should be an alert specific mission type rather than something people can choose to do all the time as it may trivialize resource gathering. I would rather DE find a different solution resource gathering, like a mod that increases the resources gained from each stack for example.

 

Alright, alright.

 

 

Allow me to explain why I feel that you haven't read my posts fully. Moving through the quoted post top to bottom henceforth.

 

No. That is not what my intention is. My intention has been described in multiple posts - I intend to amend the existing system so it becomes more choice-dependant what you receive. I want to see players not being at the mercy of a unpredictable RNG, but give them the options to decide what they want, do the according task and receive what they aimed for. Effort/Reward correlation.

 

Changing the drop distributions may change nothing overall, true, but it pairs player input with predictable output. The goal is to make actions more rewarding, entirely psychological. Killing an elite or boss is more rewarding than killing trash. If you want common resources, kill common enemies. If you want rare resources, kill rare enmies. This is about sense, not about improving drop rates overall.

 

And both the Alerts and the Missiontype:Acquisition work in conjunction. Rare materials are rare - just like alerts. The alert popups are spruced up by resource alerts, which have been asked for for a while now and have been mentioned on livestreams, aswell. The missiontype is an addition, the counterpart to the alert. A common resource is a acquired in a common, repeatable mission, which does not give your the stuff for free, but merely amplifies/assists your acquisition of those resources. Not large amounts, but tangible ones. Examples in the post.

 

A mod that augments resource acquisition would be rare, RNG based, not be accessible to casual other than by sheer luck and do the exact opposite of my proposals. It would further and favour RNG rather than reduce and tame it.

[Excitonex]

Alright, alright.

 

 

Allow me to explain why I feel that you haven't read my posts fully. Moving through the quoted post top to bottom henceforth.

 

No. That is not what my intention is. My intention has been described in multiple posts - I intend to amend the existing system so it becomes more choice-dependant what you receive. I want to see players not being at the mercy of a unpredictable RNG, but give them the options to decide what they want, do the according task and receive what they aimed for. Effort/Reward correlation.

 

Changing the drop distributions may change nothing overall, true, but it pairs player input with predictable output. The goal is to make actions more rewarding, entirely psychological. Killing an elite or boss is more rewarding than killing trash. If you want common resources, kill common enemies. If you want rare resources, kill rare enmies. This is about sense, not about improving drop rates overall.

 

And both the Alerts and the Missiontype:Acquisition work in conjunction. Rare materials are rare - just like alerts. The alert popups are spruced up by resource alerts, which have been asked for for a while now and have been mentioned on livestreams, aswell. The missiontype is an addition, the counterpart to the alert. A common resource is a acquired in a common, repeatable mission, which does not give your the stuff for free, but merely amplifies/assists your acquisition of those resources. Not large amounts, but tangible ones. Examples in the post.

 

A mod that augments resource acquisition would be rare, RNG based, not be accessible to casual other than by sheer luck and do the exact opposite of my proposals. It would further and favour RNG rather than reduce and tame it.

I still disagree with changing how enemies drop things because I think it will exacerbate the current rusher/explorer problem as rushers kill only the mobs that drop what they want, leaving everything else behind. I definitely agree with bosses not dropping common and uncommon resources as that's just cruel.

 

I guess what I would like to see from your third and fourth paragraphs would be a combination of the two. I think an alert only mission type would be interesting and could reward all types of resources. I would like it this way because while it helps with material rewards it does not trivialize any materials like adding a static resource mission would.

Edited June 16, 2013 by Excitonex

[CloudPies]

I still disagree with changing how enemies drop things because I think it will exacerbate the current rusher/explorer problem as rushers kill only the mobs that drop what they want, leaving everything else behind. I definitely agree with bosses not dropping common and uncommon resources as that's just cruel.

 

I guess what I would like to see from your third and fourth paragraphs would be a combination of the two. I think an alert only mission type would be interesting and could reward all types of resources. I would like it this way because while it helps with material rewards it does not trivialize any materials like adding a static resource mission would.

The most "sought after" resource right now is ferrite, which is a common resource. Weapons and components still need common and uncommon resources along side rare resources, so most players would kill everything in the room anyway. (If someone has the ability to pick out only pod crewmen, kill only them, and loot the drops while ignoring everything else that is firing at them. They probably deserve to get whatever resources they're after...)

The rusher/explorer "problem" is a problem with play styles and different goals. Alongside giving players an INCENTIVE to explore, this requires a more complex matchmaking system, an option to create your own session and the ability to leave a current session and start your own.

The suggestion about an incentive to explore is discussed in more detail in this post :)

This suggestion so far have been to make killing more difficult enemies more rewarding, instead of frustrating.

Edited June 16, 2013 by CloudPies

[liavalenth]

The most "sought after" resource right now is ferrite, which is a common resource.

This, here, is why I agree with Excitonex. Yes, rare mats are hard to get and making them easier/giving more ways to get them will be nice. However, many people including myself do not have a problem getting rare resources, it is the Common/Uncommon ones that are normally a problem. Ferrite, Alloy Plate, and Rubedo are the ones I would like to see appear in Alerts. If rare mats appeared I would go for them, but they would be equally useful and wanted as common/uncommon ones.

[MyXmaN]

Where can i throw my money to see all these in game?

[unmog]

This, here, is why I agree with Excitonex. Yes, rare mats are hard to get and making them easier/giving more ways to get them will be nice. However, many people including myself do not have a problem getting rare resources, it is the Common/Uncommon ones that are normally a problem. Ferrite, Alloy Plate, and Rubedo are the ones I would like to see appear in Alerts. If rare mats appeared I would go for them, but they would be equally useful and wanted as common/uncommon ones.

He's saying they would appear in alerts >.> My suggestion specifically though was it be a number of resources specifically in that system/planet the alert was located in. But yea, Im assuming if implemented there'd be more ferrite alerts than neural sensors. Or at the very least if it was evenly based, you would get 1 or 2 neural sensors compared to 500-3k ferrite. Based off RNG. Made a specific post about it here. Its near the top :)

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/64305-operation-cornucopia-add-resource-alerts-parallel-to-alerts/

Edited June 16, 2013 by unmog

[CloudPies]

This, here, is why I agree with Excitonex. Yes, rare mats are hard to get and making them easier/giving more ways to get them will be nice. However, many people including myself do not have a problem getting rare resources, it is the Common/Uncommon ones that are normally a problem. Ferrite, Alloy Plate, and Rubedo are the ones I would like to see appear in Alerts. If rare mats appeared I would go for them, but they would be equally useful and wanted as common/uncommon ones.

Here is a link for the sub-suggestion Missiontype: Acquisition for a specific mission type for common and uncommon materials

Putting common resources (that you need in the thousands) in alerts seem less than ideal, the one alert could doubtfully give you nearly enough, and for the quantity we're looking at, a more steady source would be less frustrating than waiting on alerts...

[DirkDeadeye]

took me 4 hours to get TWO control modules

 

I reset after U8..for the hell of it.

 

And now those rare resources are -too- hard to find. I don't mind farming ferrite for awhile..because then I do feel a sense of progress. but being forced to kill a boss, over, and over again without getting one is not fun. I mean, if I got any useful mods doing so..I'd be okay with that too. But no, just warframe, sentinel mods..

[unmog]

Here is a link for the sub-suggestion Missiontype: Acquisition for a specific mission type for common and uncommon materials

Putting common resources (that you need in the thousands) in alerts seem less than ideal, the one alert could doubtfully give you nearly enough, and for the quantity we're looking at, a more steady source would be less frustrating than waiting on alerts...

I know, but its not a pick which idea is best for everything. Its a bunch of ideas meant to be taken together. I already stated early on I was in support of all of them :)

[Fire_Ashes]

I think as well as a garunteed rare resource for a boss kill you should have 1/5 chance to get a rare mod for a boss.

I am stuck on trying to get hawk eye from Golem and I now have 16 neural sensors and no mods that I need farmed 25 or mor times

[Excitonex]

I think as well as a garunteed rare resource for a boss kill you should have 1/5 chance to get a rare mod for a boss.

I am stuck on trying to get hawk eye from Golem and I now have 16 neural sensors and no mods that I need farmed 25 or mor times

The best place to get the new mods, in my experience, has been the void. If you need some keys add me in-game and I'll run some with you. I have so many T1+2 keys I can't spend them all with my clanmates.

[Ced23Ric]

I think as well as a garunteed rare resource for a boss kill you should have 1/5 chance to get a rare mod for a boss. I am stuck on trying to get hawk eye from Golem and I now have 16 neural sensors and no mods that I need farmed 25 or mor times

The best place to get the new mods, in my experience, has been the void. If you need some keys add me in-game and I'll run some with you. I have so many T1+2 keys I can't spend them all with my clanmates.

 

Hawkeye has an elevated drop chance in the void, Excitonex has that right. Coordinate via PM, please, as this is entirely offtopic. Mods are not regarded for these suggestions. Running the Golem will not help you there, really.

 

This, here, is why I agree with Excitonex. [...] it is the Common/Uncommon ones that are normally a problem. Ferrite, Alloy Plate, and Rubedo are the ones I would like to see appear in Alerts. If rare mats appeared I would go for them, but they would be equally useful and wanted as common/uncommon ones.

 

Like CloudPies already posted, this entire package addresses your needs just aswell, with a reliable souce for uncommon/common materials of your choice. What is it that you agree with Excitonex on?

[liavalenth]

Like CloudPies already posted, this entire package addresses your needs just aswell, with a reliable souce for uncommon/common materials of your choice. What is it that you agree with Excitonex on?

I think uncommon/common resource alerts is a good idea. I would love to see it implemented. However, it seems that only rare resources will be given from Alerts. I just want to voice my opinion that uncommon/common resource alerts would be good, and give my reasoning.