I Am Sick Of Defense Heroes.

[Lane]

The Brocode of Defense.

[Pendragon1951]

I mentioned this in a different thread regarding this and I'll reiterate what I said there. You are correct in that some people are not aware of this through lack of information or detailed tutorials, to be honest until I read that other thread I myself was not aware of this and I had been playing for months, but there is another side to this also. Aside from the people who are unaware of this you basically have two types of defense players, the first are the Hunters they believe it is more efficient to kill at the spawn points thus reducing the number attacks on the Pod. Then there are the Defenders, those who believe staying near the Pod and defending choke points near the Pod.  Both have merit because the ultimate goal is to defend the Pod as long as you can. Whichever player type you are if the Pod dies everyone loses. I believe there are a small percentage who are there to rack up the kills, but on the whole I believe most fit into the two classes I mentioned above.  All I can say is if you don't enjoy the style of play quit at 5 and try another.

[ASH_PRIME]

the corridor on the far left hand side..

its called 'The Passage of NOOB'

all ya can do is :

1)Play with your clan or friends

2)Hope they die and DONT revive them!

[Alohoe]

Which region are you from? I'll add ya as a friend if ya want seems I too enjoy infested defense and hate those kind of players too hehe.

NA east. add meh!

[Faethore]

This is a problem on mobile defence missions like Kappa as well.  Most people run Kappa for the massive exp. it can dish out.  But if one person runs off by themselves (outside the 50ish meter experience distance) you get drasticly less exp than if everyone hangs out by the consoles. 

 

When I log into a game, I always politly say "If we stick together we get lots more exp..fyi."  Sometimes it works, most times it does't.  You usually get that one guy who wants to hang out in the hallway or in the center away from the rest of the group to show how "hard" he is. 

 

If you wait for the bad guys by the consoles, they will come to you...promise. =b

Edited June 13, 2013 by Faethore

[Bakim0n0]

Heh... that's why you pick Loki and teleport everything TO the pod or be Vauban and spam your bounce nades.

[Feneckus]

It's actually the most efficient strategy.

A Saryn can litterally almost single handedly end a wave within 10 seconds. Why would you not do it ? The faster the wave goes, the fewer opportunities there is for everyone to take damage. What about Toxic Ancients ? Are you supposed to let them near the pod ?

All you have to do is stand where there's a half dozen containers at the beginning of the game, wait a bit, two seperate spawns will come to you and die, just like that. Waiting for them to come to the pod will take significantly longer.

As long as it's only one person doing it, and a Saryn, then it's perfectly fine.

What's annoying is when Rhinos go in there and try to melee everything. Not helping. Or an Excalibur spamming Slash Dash. Or when they go deep into the left hall. Beyond stupid.

When I log into a game, I always politly say "If we stick together we get lots more exp..fyi."  Sometimes it works, most times it does't.  You usually get that one guy who wants to hang out in the hallway or in the center away from the rest of the group to show how "hard" he is.

As long as you don't go past the stairs in the central room then you're in range.

And again, it's significantly more effective because if you're there you have access to three seperate spawns, which means you kill a ridiculous amount, which means more mods.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Feneckus

[Aramet]

Okay... but it's still the most effective way to say "Don't stand in my line of fire numb nuts"

Sorry, I wasn't being hostile, just clearing friendly fire thing that up. xD

  

When I log into a game, I always politly say "If we stick together we get lots more exp..fyi."  Sometimes it works, most times it does't.  You usually get that one guy who wants to hang out in the hallway or in the center away from the rest of the group to show how "hard" he is. 

You sound like someone I was with on my first Kappa run. They said the same thing. I found the layout and waypoint incredibly confusing though, so I stood in the center room killing enemies with another teammate. It wasn't my intention but I pissed the other two off until I realized where I had to go, lol.

[Zoet]

I admit that sometimes I do commit that mistake that OP mentioned. I saw some players holding off the area and It seemed to be effective in reducing the number of enemies so I do try that sometimes and don't stay close to the pod. What i didn't know is that the exp cannot be shared among the others. Now that I know, I will try to be much closer to the pod, but I think there are many who do not know about the exp range too and will make the same mistake.

[Fuilteach]

Sorry, I wasn't being hostile, just clearing friendly fire thing that up. xD

 

no worries.  I was mostly just disappointed.  What's a little shield damage between gamers =D

and when I'm crouching in a hallway to provide a clear shot for people behind me... having someone walk right out infront of me like some silly action hero, mowing down the incoming horde... you could have done that without blocking my line of fire so... POP GOES THE ARROW XD

Edited June 13, 2013 by Fuilteach

[ethics]

I ask people to fight near the pod, most agree and understand why, some don't, this is no-one in particular (except every banshee, ever) but if they don't manage it by wave 2 i just abort.

Couldn't care less about the stats or mods i've picked up in the 2 waves. It's not worth the grief

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

Yeah, I too hate it when I'm in a defense mission with someone who doesn't give a F*** about the cryopod and is just going around killing things on his own, leaving the rest of us, staying at the cryopod, dealing with all the ones he missed.

 

Then, they get smug about their kills even after we failed the mission due to the rest of us being overwhelmed.

 

The rest of us could also just be me alone sometimes.

[Aigloblam]

The whole reason i do it is pure strategy. Im not in this for Xp alone, I also want Kills, Enjoyment, and a sense of accomplishment. Take Io for example, If you run out and kill before they get to the pod area, then whoever is at the pod has less to deal with. This means we can go to higher waves, get better rewards, and have fewer worries. Till wave 15 usually i stay over on the left side, standing on the boxes, so that i can Slash Dash into the biggest concentrations of enemies OR if needed i can slide jump all the way back to the pod and defend it.After wave 15, I will take a look at who has been killing how much, and where. That way if i need to drop back to the pod and help protect it i will. The reality is that in a war, you don't fall back as close to your capitol as possible to fight the enemy, You take the fight to them, so you have a lot of room in case you need to fall back.

I've done everything there is to do in this game, My only goal left is to see myself in the top 10 on the leader board. Im in the top 800 now...but im working on it. My goal requires me to kill the absolute maximum number of mobs in every map i play, Defense or not.

That being said, If someone were to ask me to move back so they get XP too, I most certainly would. If they want to choose individual progress over a long and extremely rewarding defense mission, Then i'll go wherever they want me. I've been in those shoes, i've leveled all my frames up to 30 (except 2, long story) and i know what its like to feel like you are falling behind. Im usually out for myself, Unless i see a hole in our defenses, then i patch it by whatever means necessary. If this means abandoning my kill-tacular area and coming back to stand on the pod, So be it, my team needs me.

This leads me to another thing, Communication. I have a Mic, so i could easily give/receive orders vital to the mission...But nobody uses it. This is fine when people actually use Text, but so often its just dead silence from a group of people that seem to not really care what happens to anyone else. This really needs to change. People should communicate more, we are ignoring the most basic of battlefield concepts.

tl;dr

True dat, ill go where you want, but you should talk/type more

Edit: Holy shlt...Sorry about the text wall, I just kinda didnt stop ranting...

Edited June 13, 2013 by Aigloblam

[Feam]

This drives me insane, especially in Mobile Defense like Kappa.

I really think that this goes beyond the "People, please be kinder to eachother and don't kill things so far."

In my opinion there could be a feature to prevent such beahviour, like increasing the range at which you get EXP from friendly kills When you are defending the objective

Maybe even reduce the EXP of people who kill completely alone in a group of 4.

Or just blatantly increase the EXP-share range in Defense mission, any of these can be tuned to be pretty damn fair and efficient really.

[Seanjuju]

Even if it was shown to them in a tutorial they would not care.  The game is for them and them alone, you are in their match literally as backup to pick them up off the floor  when they can't cut it.

 

The only reason to even play in a group in this game is to avoid paying platinum for a death.  If you were to load in and just sit in the corner until they were down they would not mind at all.

Your view of players is sort of depressing. Don't forget that missions go faster with more people..

 

 

I mentioned this in a different thread regarding this and I'll reiterate what I said there. You are correct in that some people are not aware of this through lack of information or detailed tutorials, to be honest until I read that other thread I myself was not aware of this and I had been playing for months, but there is another side to this also. Aside from the people who are unaware of this you basically have two types of defense players, the first are the Hunters they believe it is more efficient to kill at the spawn points thus reducing the number attacks on the Pod. Then there are the Defenders, those who believe staying near the Pod and defending choke points near the Pod.  Both have merit because the ultimate goal is to defend the Pod as long as you can. Whichever player type you are if the Pod dies everyone loses. I believe there are a small percentage who are there to rack up the kills, but on the whole I believe most fit into the two classes I mentioned above.  All I can say is if you don't enjoy the style of play quit at 5 and try another.

 

I play both the types you suggest at different times during defense. At lower waves, many people like to push the waves along by instantly ending them or by substantially reducing the time it takes. As difficulty increases, there are many times when the pressure on the pod would be too great; with that in mind, large numbers of mobs are distracted, delayed, or killed to insure only manageable numbers reach those closer to it. Balance is important. Though weapon types and frames play a huge part, its inefficient to have all 'defenders' or all 'hunters' in this particular map. A group of all 'defenders' have no ground to give, if they can't handle everything coming at them, they lose. A hunter that gets downed is a huge hassle. A group of all hunters delay many enemies from reaching the pod but those that do meet very little opposition. There are bad or inefficient hunters and defenders but most often its a hunter. Still its not necessarily a bad play style.        

[Excitonex]

If people decide to run out of xp range to kill stuff I just let the pod die. They'll learn eventually.

[JHarlequin]

 We all really need a better understanding of how xp works because honestly, I have never seen a time when someone could make a kill and I wouldn't get some xp for it.  Best example is when the objective is done and I immediately go the other way to look for lockers to open, enemies to kill and crates to destroy and yet after several minutes and probably many rooms between us, I am still constantly getting xp from the kills the other people are making.

 

 I am sure we are far outside the ranges that are possible on a defense mission, which means that any kill made on any defense mission will give some xp to everyone on the mission.

 

 I have also seen though that if I am not making kills, then my weapons take extremely low amounts of xp.  The experience isn't perfectly shared, the person that makes the kill gets more then the other people earn.  So it is still better if one person doesn't monopolize the kills.  As well as the fact if they are killing things in the spawn, then the material blocks and mods are dropping in the spawns and people have to leave the cryopod with fewer defenders, or undefended while going out to pick those up.

 

 People do need to let the mobs get closer to the pod.  But it isn't because you weren't getting xp.

[andretf]

"Defense Heroes" are actually pretty easy to deal with, take one of my past experiences.

 

- Things would go faster and smoother if you stopped camping spawn and came to the pod with us

- IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE

- Okay, enjoy your playstyle while i enjoy my sandwich brb

[Extinction_Engine]

It's a legacy from my ME3 MP days: kill them where they spawn! Or relatively close, so I do not mess up the spawns.

And it's glorious seeing the endless flow of infested coming to me and dying helplessly.

[WingsOfGryphin]

Corpus all the way. I can't stand infested. 

[Bakim0n0]

-snip-

Edit: Holy shlt...Sorry about the text wall, I just kinda didnt stop ranting...

That would be great if it actually helped in the bulk of matches, but it doesn't unless everyone is anticipating it and YOU are having fun and getting kills while the rest of your team is hanging back to defend the pod, getting less exp and having situations where they leave the pod vulnerable to go pick up mods that had no business being out of sight from the pod on top of causing teammates to lose mats to decay.

People don't use the Mic because it's unreliable... it doesn't always work for every client and sometimes people have the option turned off. The whole advantage to fighting infested is they come to you.

P.S. you don't get enough kills per hour to even break the top 200 let alone the top 10.

to be clear, you wouldn't know it by looking at my profile because I reset; but I have over 600 hours of play time and was in the top 300 (328 when I reset actually). I'm not trying to be mean with that other comment about kills per hour, but you're going to have to step up your game when people are getting your total kills twice a month if you expect to get there.

Let me tell you from a LOT of experience (combining my kills now and pre reset I had almost as many infested kills as you have kills) things go a whole lot smoother and faster if you have one person at both chokepoints near the pod in Xini rather than sitting in the spawn.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Bakim0n0

[Archistopheles]

I stopped running Xini.

 

Pluto is the way to go now. People stop being heroes at wave 5.

[Faethore]

Explanation of experience mechanics in warframe:

 

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Experience_Mechanics

 

For those to lazy to click or if you don't trust my link..../halo here's the pertenant information:

 

Team Experience:

Whenever any member of the team kills an enemy you will gain 100% of the experience you would solo, however the type of weapon experience gained depends on what weapon the ally used. E.G. If an ally killed an enemy with a pistol, you would gain pistol slot experience, even if you only used your rifle for 100% of your kills. Playing in teams also has an additional bonus experience reward (See below).

Team Bonus End Experience:

Bonus experience is gained at the end of a mission completion. It is shown as an additional gold bar on your mission end screen. Quitting a mission revokes your bonus experience. All bonus experience listed below gets a bonus based on number of team mates, solo it appears to be 25%. You gain bonus experience based on mission type, number of additional team members and other attributes:

• Kills: You get a bonus 50% experience from all kills at the end of mission.
• Unspent energy: 1 exp for every 1 unspent energy at the end of the mission.

• Lockdown: 50 exp - normal (25% bonus at end of mission -13 experience).

• Hostage (Mission Type and Secondary objective): 100 exp - normal (25% bonus).

• Raid (Mission Type): 200 exp - normal (25% bonus).
• Number of Team Members: Requires investigation.
• Perfect Run: No deaths? No Detection? Requires investigation.
• Affinity Orbs: Affinity orbs grant you 100 experience to your warframe. Need to test if subject to bonus.
• Affinity Booster: This is a store bought booster than doubles ALL affinity gains.
• Mastery Rank Test: 50 exp or 100 exp

Extermination, Assassination, Spy &​ Sabotage mission types give no bonus experience for completion.

Still need to check the rest of mission types.There is no penalty (yet) for deaths & revivals in missions. Must check bonus xp for team mate revivals.

(I'm sure everyone of you had the situation where you got only normal exp or only bonus exp (or just really wierd proportions) I think game just made a mistake in interpretating normal/bonus experience. I had that and as I remember the sum was correct. For example i had 0 normal + 12500 bonus when it was supposed to be 10000 normal + 2500 bonus. It's the same ammount just shown differently.)

[Kyrkitao]

If people decide to run out of xp range to kill stuff I just let the pod die. They'll learn eventually.

If you do not tell people that, all they'll learn is that you're an AFKer/griefer.

"Defense Heroes" are actually pretty easy to deal with, take one of my past experiences.

- Things would go faster and smoother if you stopped camping spawn and came to the pod with us

- IT'S MY PLAYSTYLE

- Okay, enjoy your playstyle while i enjoy my sandwich brb

The first point isn't true. It is faster to kill them at/near the spawn (especially in the first couple waves).

I fight at the spot somebody else mentioned (5 smashables on spawn). I do it because my Miasma is fatal to just about everything until wave 13 or so, after that I fall back. I've only seen one person ask me to stop, and they asked because it would be 'faster' to fight on the pod. As a previous poster said, 'all hunters' doesn't work, but all defenders is way slower.

Edited June 13, 2013 by Kyrkitao

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

I stopped running Xini.

 

Pluto is the way to go now. People stop being heroes at wave 5.

Yup pretty much.