Parry & Counter attacks

[-Varrgas-]

Hi everyone.

(sorry for my english language, this isn't my mother tongue but i will do my best, sorry for your eyes.)

 

 

I have an issue, i have spend many time to test things in the Test Room, reading the english wiki and reddit post and still don't found good explication for this.

I know how it work, when i have my melee weapon in hand and pushing the parry button i will block a % of the damaged who are coming in front of me, the damage Block % is different for each melee weapon category.

Then, if i am Parrying + channeling, then i will took no damage and return a part of them for the cost of some energy, but ... what amount of energy ? how this is calculated ? It is by attack reflected ? the more the damage are the more it cost ? the amount of reflected damage take what in consideration ? the more i can parry the more i will reflect ?

 

And there is more...

 

When i am doing the same thing when i take melee damage there a "chance" for opening the enemies to a melee counter attack, in action i just have to let the channeling button push + block and when i am hit, sometime the enemies stagger and if i don't wait too mush, i can push my strike button to execute a finisher move in front of him or in his back if i am fast enough.

The only above is that the % chance for the opening to counter attack isn't know and there is no info at all.

And this point plus the other about the parry mechanics are unknown too. Of course DE don't have to give us all the number and % and i am not for the Data mining even if this can help to better understand the game mechanics that not a good thing to do but some info will be great about all of this.

I mean, melee game play is an important part of the game, even more now with Body count and recent mod who help melee to be more easy for everyone and not only the best player ^^. The mechanics sound good and interesting but if we can know the damage % increase for a channeling strike and the Cost, why not for Parry and reflected damage ?

 

I know there is other subject on internet and even there on this forum but with the remove of Endurance last year and with other update etc the game-play have change a lot and maybe those mechanics have been touch too, i don't know but i am sure a thread posted a year ago will not really help me to solve those questions in my opinion, they still don't, i have read many.

 

So, thanks DE for this great game and if someone from the staff reading thing there, this can be a great idea for some more info or clear info.

And if some player know well how this works, the cost, or % damage reflected (not the parry amount, this is on the wiki), thanks a lot for your time and help.

 

 

Thanks for reading, good game, have fun and good luck for the drop :)

[-Varrgas-]

40 minutes ago, taiiat said:

being able to get free Finishers by Blocking (Channel or not) is super lame and means close Range Combat just devolves into standing there, waiting for all Enemies to stagger themselves and you QTE them and win.

I know what you was saying before like i write in my post and sorry but your wrong, there no need to time the channeling now, make the test, take a weapon, block and keep the channeling key  hold and go in front of a melee enemies, you will trigger stagger that open to counter attack finisher move without having to time anything.

If i am not wrong that is like this since the Equinox update, 17.0

I know that channeling is not interesting except for Life strike, but what i look for is about counter attack etc, i have some idea of exotic build but i need more info to know if there is real possibility or not. I don't have enough forma to wast to test it and doesn't want to wast them for nothing :)

[taiiat]

Channel Blocking as an Enemy Melee Strikes you will stagger them for a Finisher. (either hitting Channel and Block at the same time or just activating Channel while already Blocking right before you get hit by Melee.)

you have to time it to right as they hit you (or use the Parry Mod).

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by taiiat

[YasaiTsume]

Just now, taiiat said:

Channel Blocking as an Enemy Melee Strikes you will stagger them for a Finisher.
you have to time it to right as they hit you (or use the Parry Mod).

 

Iirc normal blocking also parries if the enemy swings into it too.

@ OP Channel Blocking drains energy to stave off the % of damage not blocked by the weapon, which seems to be similar to the way Quick Thinking works, I need to check and try again. 

[Ailith]

1 hour ago, taiiat said:

Channel Blocking as an Enemy Melee Strikes you will stagger them for a Finisher. (either hitting Channel and Block at the same time or just activating Channel while already Blocking right before you get hit by Melee.)

you have to time it to right as they hit you (or use the Parry Mod).

 

The fact that I was aware of this and have only parried attacks a handful of times speaks to how useless the feature currently is. We should be able to parry any attack (including bullets) and direct it back at the attacker, limiting it to only melee attacks is horrible and requiring band-aid mods to make the mechanic remotely usable is even worse.

Channeling also needs to be reworked completely, there's no reason to use it outside of Life Strike. To make channeling damage effective, you need to remove damage mods. And, removing damage mods (you guessed it) reduces your channeling damage. Not to mention, certain multi-hit stances like Swirling Tiger can completely drain your energy pool in one animation. On top of that, the amount of energy drained while blocking/parrying is based on how much damage the enemy deals, you can easily lose all of your energy to the first attack against even mid-level enemies. Enemies with high-fire-rate weapons (Corpus Tech, Heavy Gunner, etc.) make this painfully obvious.

I know this isn't exactly the place for a 'rant', but it's feedback related to the topic. Melee as a whole is in a weird place, in my opinion, I just want it to be more useful and fun.

[taiiat]

4 minutes ago, Ailith said:

-snip-

being able to get free Finishers by Blocking (Channel or not) is super lame and means close Range Combat just devolves into standing there, waiting for all Enemies to stagger themselves and you QTE them and win.
yawn.

Channeling is useless aside from Life Strike as it is, yes. i've done all the complaining about it i'm going to do for now, because it's not the Development focus right now and is going to be ignored for much longer.

i can't fix the obvious problems, because i lack the ability to go and do it. i would if i could.

[taiiat]

2 hours ago, Garvarr said:

there no need to time the channeling now

welp, there's a Bug.
how long it takes to fix it though, idk.

[-Varrgas-]

no no, that not a bug, i told you, that a change who came with the remove of the Endurance, the new parkour mechanics etc.

Edited May 8, 2016 by Garvarr

[MechaTails]

11 hours ago, Garvarr said:

I know what you was saying before like i write in my post and sorry but your wrong, there no need to time the channeling now, make the test, take a weapon, block and keep the channeling key  hold and go in front of a melee enemies, you will trigger stagger that open to counter attack finisher move without having to time anything.

I'm testing this right now in some missions, and no, you don't open enemies for counters every time simply by channeling. I'm using the Trident weapon against Grineer Butchers.

If anything, there's a slight chance you'll parry even if you don't time it right, or are pressing block/channeling the entire time, as you pointed out.

And yes, I'd like to know the exact numbers regarding these mechanics because I'd like to make some counter-builds.

Edited May 8, 2016 by MechaTails

[-Varrgas-]

hmm ... you know that even if you time it well that not 100% chance to open finisher (in melee only), to have the 100% chance you need the weapon mod : "parry".

for me that not a little chance to prok, it is between 25% and 33% of the time.

I spawn Scorpion lvl 80, i don't have reflex guard, and when i am parrying + channeling with my Ack & Brunt, that what i see, around 25% to 33% of the melee strike, on me, in front of me opening to finisher.

Is there is a chance that the counter attack is a % parts of the damage block reduction % of the weapon categories or something different ? (pure speculation there)

Because sword & shield, scythe, polearm and some other have all the same Block damage reduction %.

 

i did the test with other enemies and that close to always the same.