Tuning: A way to make time invested in a weapon pay off

[Tigercloud]

Alright, this is somewhere between Mastery and the Focus system, but neither of those.

• Imagine an XP bar counterpart to Mastery, called Tuning.
• You gain levels for this by ranking up or using a formaed weapon.
• There's an overall bar for Tuning, as well as specific bars for each weapon.
• Each level gained on a Tuned weapon unlocks a new attribute.
• One of these attributes is a mod slot, specific to only certain types of mods, such as utility mods.
• Tuning is essentially a skill tree for weapons, with additional mod slots serving as branches on the skill tree.

This would reward time invested in a weapon you enjoy. Powergamers will always go for the most efficient path, and that's not a bad thing, just a way of playing. This way, so long as content is tuned (no pun intended) to not be overpowered by the top OP flavor weapons of the month and not impossible for weaker weapons, players will be rewarded with the ability to further customize, and increase the power of, their favorite weapons. Ideally, any Tuned weapon that has sufficient time invested in it should perform as good as top tier weapons, even if they started lower on the power totem pole.

Edited to include suggestions in the thread:

To gain Tuning, you must complete repeatable mini-objectives using the weapon.

• There are multiple, repeatable, mini-objectives which when completed, give a certain amount of tuning.
  Example: 9 Headshot Kills = 300 Tuning. 15 Kills = 100 Tuning. 3 Kills in 5 seconds = 50 Tuning. Etc.
• There are certain things which, if skillfully accomplished, add modifiers to the tuning gained by doing the mini-objectives.
  Example: 70%+ Accuracy = +20% Tuning, 90%+ Accuracy = +30% Tuning, 70% Melee Kills = +30% Tuning. Etc. This is applied at the end of the game.

Tuning would have 10 ranks. On the third and sixth rank, you get a utility mod slot. On the first, second, fourth, fifth, seventh, eighth, and ninth ranks, you get stat tree buffs as follows:

• +1% Damage or +3% Firing Rate
• +1% Critical Rate or +5% Critical Damage
• +5% Status Chance or +3% Multishot
• +5% Range or +5% Ammo
• +3% Reload Speed or +5% Magazine Size
• +5% Hoster Speed or -5% Recoil
• +.2 m Punchthrough or +5% Status Duration

On the tenth rank, you get a universal slot.
 

OLD FAQ

Spoiler

 

1. Won't this cause even more powercreep overrun? What happens when you use a Tuned Soma Prime or Tonkor?
   Answer: This will cause these weapons to become more powerful than they are currently, yes. However, by keeping Tuned mod slots to utility type mods, except maybe for 10th level slots, this will reduce the ceiling for powercreep on current OP weapons, while giving the opportunity for lower DPS weapons to gain more improvement. One example is ammo or reload mods. Let's take a look at how the Tuned system might work:
   
   Tuning has 10 levels, each of which takes 50% more XP per level. One level of Tuning is equal to 30 ranks of Mastery.
   
   On the first, third, sixth, ninth, and tenth levels, you gain a mod slot on the weapon. The first four are utility mods only. The tenth can by any type of mod, including flat DPS mods.
   On the second, fourth, fifth, seventh, and eighth levels, you get the choice of giving one of two stats a buff:
   
   +5% Damage or +10% Firing Rate
   +5% Critical Rate or +10% Critical Damage
   +20% Status Chance or +10% Multishot
   +20% Range or +20% Ammo
   +15% Reload Speed or +20% Magazine Size
   
   Imagine these as switches. Swish left, swish right. 5 ways to tune the stats on your weapon, 5 mod slots to further customize it. Because most weapons that aren't good benefit more from things like ammo or magazine size than already OP weapons, you have a situation where good weapons don't get a big improvement while mediocre weapons see a huge increase in usability.
   
   Either way, this should let me go into a Sortie 3 with a Panthera, single Furis, and Furax Wraith and be able to kill things.
   And what happens when you use a Tuned Soma Prime or Tonkor? You cut through level 100 enemies maybe 20-30% faster than you would've with an untuned Soma Prime or Tonkor. Big deal. That guy with the Twin Vipers is actually killing several enemies per ammo clip, and doesn't he have a big smile on his face, aren't you happy for him? SAY YOU'RE HAPPY FOR HIM, DAMN IT!
    
2. What type of mods would be utility mods?
   Answer: Ammo, Magazine Size, Reload Speed, Status Chance, Range, Status Duration... anything that's not Damage, Critical Rate, Critical Damage, Multishot, or Firing Rate.
    
3. Doesn't this make things needlessly complicated?
   Answer: Doesn't this give us vets something to actually do, that rewards us for using weapons we've invested time into, that gives us something positive out of forma resetting ranking to 0? Isn't it flat out awesome that I can improve the ammo clip and reload speed of my favorite weapon, which makes it actually useable?
   
   Answer to that: You're damn right it is.
    
4. No, but seriously.
   Answer: As this only happens when a player Forma's a weapon, that player will have to have some level of experience with the game, to have gone into the Void and gotten a Forma. Add it to the tutorial. For veterans, this gives us a new playground of options, that we're rewarded with for using the weapons we like using.

 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Jiufengbao
Edited to update OP with thread suggestions

[derp215]

So skill tree but for weapons right? Good idea.

[Evan-0-matic]

I like the idea in general and you have my +1...

But I think the stat buffs and the amount of rewarded mod slots is a bit much, especially the mod slots. I would say one, MAYBE two would be realistic. I love more mod slots like anyone else, but that many extra slots (even if they are just utility) would be excessive. 

As for the stat buffs... Maybe cut them by a 3rd or 4th. Again I like the idea very much! And I can only hope DE implements something like this for ALL weapons for us vets. 

[-N7-Leonhart]

Considering I have max builds for like 80+ weapons, I would like something like this. But then again, when I think that most players will max their weapons in 2 hours on Draco, I have second thoughts about rewarding the 'hard efforts'....

[Sajochi]

I can get behind something like this. Especially with the new star chart, this type of system can show promise. I will admit that I've always liked the seer pistol ( as bad as it is, I just like how it looks). I want to be that player with a tuned seer pistol in a sortie destroying expectations. 

The switch boosts could use a small nerf in some numbers, and I think having 2 QoL slots and an extra ( the damages one) slot would be more than enough.

[marshmellory]

i love everything but the levels being based on XP. i think it should be something that forces you to use the weapon... such as 50 headshot kills, get over 70% accuracy with the weapon, etc.

[ChiroTek]

The other side of it being, that I do like this idea immensely as well.  With what Marshmellory proposes however, while still doable on Draco, perhaps make certain areas weaker for Tuning than others.  Ones popular with all the Tenno wouldn't give much variety to the worlds you've built.  Heck, you could even make Tuning Drops with special missions-  You want +5% damage or Fire Rate?  Do a Tower 3 Survival with the equipped weapon and kills with said weapon you intend to Tune.

It would give a chance to make stronger weapons further stronger, it would also allow those who want to keep their older weapons that aren't as strong, have fun with them again.

[Sajochi]

Isn't DE changing the starmap in U19 making Draco irrelevant? I don't think using Draco as a point for anything is even valid. This idea seems to be an U19 suggestion and should probably be discussed as such.

I agree with @ChiroTek about having to use the weapon in order to tune it (instead of just having it holstered to gain tuning levels) further increasing a players understanding of what the weapon can potentially do. Not in agreement with locking it to certain missions. It should feel like a gradual progression so players can feel satisfaction from tuning.

[Popstupid]

12 hours ago, CrazyCortex said:

Isn't DE changing the starmap in U19 making Draco irrelevant? I don't think using Draco as a point for anything is even valid. This idea seems to be an U19 suggestion and should probably be discussed as such.

I agree with @ChiroTek about having to use the weapon in order to tune it (instead of just having it holstered to gain tuning levels) further increasing a players understanding of what the weapon can potentially do. Not in agreement with locking it to certain missions. It should feel like a gradual progression so players can feel satisfaction from tuning.

 

Draco isn't irrelevant. DE stated that they would make other missions be able to compete with Draco for their purpose, affinity in this case.

On 5/17/2016 at 7:07 PM, -BM-Leonhart said:

Considering I have max builds for like 80+ weapons, I would like something like this. But then again, when I think that most players will max their weapons in 2 hours on Draco, I have second thoughts about rewarding the 'hard efforts'....

 

I think you mean 20 minutes lol

[Divinehero]

that's an interesting idea tho maybe a bit much.. perhaps w/ some refining

[-N7-Leonhart]

6 hours ago, Popstupid said:

I think you mean 20 minutes lol

By max I mean 5-6 forma.

Edited May 19, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[Popstupid]

14 hours ago, -BM-Leonhart said:

By max I mean 5-6 forma.

Oh lol

[(PSN)Fang_Alchemist]

You sold me on the idea 

[Tigercloud]

On 5/17/2016 at 0:31 PM, marshmellory said:

i love everything but the levels being based on XP. i think it should be something that forces you to use the weapon... such as 50 headshot kills, get over 70% accuracy with the weapon, etc.

How about having it like this:

• There are multiple, repeatable, mini-objectives which when completed, give a certain amount of tuning.
  Example: 9 Headshot Kills = 300 Tuning. 15 Kills = 100 Tuning. 3 Kills in 5 seconds = 50 Tuning. Etc.
• There are certain things which, if skillfully accomplished, add modifiers to the tuning gained by doing the mini-objectives.
  Example: 70%+ Accuracy = +20% Tuning, 90%+ Accuracy = +30% Tuning, 70% Melee Kills = +30% Tuning. Etc. This is applied at the end of the game.
  
   

On 5/16/2016 at 1:44 AM, Evan-0-matic said:

I like the idea in general and you have my +1...

But I think the stat buffs and the amount of rewarded mod slots is a bit much, especially the mod slots. I would say one, MAYBE two would be realistic. I love more mod slots like anyone else, but that many extra slots (even if they are just utility) would be excessive. 

As for the stat buffs... Maybe cut them by a 3rd or 4th. Again I like the idea very much! And I can only hope DE implements something like this for ALL weapons for us vets. 

Well, I do have the rabbit hole in mind as far as mod slots are concerned, but that's something for another thread. I agree that everything could be cut some; I was being a bit enthusiastic. Also, the point of Tuning should be that you can invest time into making a weapon usable for high end, level 80 content. For some of the weapons out there, particularly fast firing, low ammo capacity dual pistols, you'd need at least 3-4 mods to make them reliable.

BUT. Having seen your point, how about this:

• 10 Ranks of Tuning. On the third and sixth rank, you get a utility mod slot. On the first, second, fourth, fifth, seventh, eighth, and ninth ranks, you get stat tree buffs as follows:
  
  +1% Damage or +3% Firing Rate
  +1% Critical Rate or +5% Critical Damage
  +5% Status Chance or +3% Multishot
  +5% Range or +5% Ammo
  +3% Reload Speed or +5% Magazine Size
  +5% Hoster Speed or -5% Recoil
  +.2 m Punchthrough or +5% Status Duration
  
  On the tenth rank, you get a universal slot.
   

Reduces it to 2 utility, 1 free slot, and gives a minor boost to nearly every stat type out there.

[marshmellory]

On 5/21/2016 at 6:33 PM, Jiufengbao said:

How about having it like this:

• There are multiple, repeatable, mini-objectives which when completed, give a certain amount of tuning.
  Example: 9 Headshot Kills = 300 Tuning. 15 Kills = 100 Tuning. 3 Kills in 5 seconds = 50 Tuning. Etc.
• There are certain things which, if skillfully accomplished, add modifiers to the tuning gained by doing the mini-objectives.
  Example: 70%+ Accuracy = +20% Tuning, 90%+ Accuracy = +30% Tuning, 70% Melee Kills = +30% Tuning. Etc. This is applied at the end of the game.

yeah, that sounds really good actually.

[Sajochi]

Now I'm hoping one of the devs seen this. I'm rebuilding the Seer because I still love the gun and am just building it for the novelty. I still have dreams that one day, I'll walk into a sortie and be relavant with it because I spent the time and energy to tune it to my liking. 

On a seriousness note, I need a reason to justify my 8 forma Drakgoon. I got really bored and decided why not and ended up getting asked why. Your tuning idea will allow me to actually test it to the fullest.

[Ryddem]

I'm all for this!

This would give so much more meaning and add so much more content to the game even though it's a kind of a small feature.

I love the proposal man! signed.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Ryddem

[DeadlyPeanutt]

add yet another grind to the WF grindfest?

no thanks

[Ryddem]

14 hours ago, DeadlyPeanutt said:

add yet another grind to the WF grindfest?

no thanks

 

If you don't like the grind that makes me wonder, why do you play this game?

Because this game is all about the grind, if you want power if you want good items then you have to put in some hours in the game right? and that means grinding. 

And this could be something you grind in the mean time just like focus. (Atleast i grind focus passivly and i've come pretty far)

Edited May 26, 2016 by Ryddem

[Sajochi]

Dismissing an idea because it adds more grind is actually detrimental to feedback. Gives reasons why you don't want more grind in a game. 

I for one support this idea because I want the time I put into a weapon to feel rewarding. I want to show mastery over my favorite gun/sword/laser whatever and think "yeah, that was all worth it." If I have to grind some more to get to that state, then I'll do it because I find it worth the time to do. If I didn't, I'll just rank a weapon on Draco and sell it because I don't feel it's worth it. This system is functionally optional. You can choose whether or not you want to deal with it. That's the magical thing about it, it's choice driven.

[Magneu]

My Latron/Burston Prime(s), weapons that fall just a bit short in supplemental stats, are crying for this.

Sounds like an amazing idea, letting us customize our weapons to our playstyle.

 

Just cause it would be awesome, what about an algorithm that would generate a set name based on what perks you chose? One guy could have a "Devastator Sancti Tigris", while the other one has a "Flechete Rounds Sancti Tigris" (I'm sure someone else can come up with much better names).

 

[N64Gamefreak]

De plans to get rid of Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point, and Point Blank, right?  That frees up a mod slot for you.

[Sajochi]

5 hours ago, N64Gamefreak said:

De plans to get rid of Serration, Hornet Strike, Pressure Point, and Point Blank, right?  That frees up a mod slot for you.

That's not the point of this thread. And there isn't really much confirmation on this, only a suggested fix DE stated for weapons that may get changes ( see the new MR= starting change).

The point of this thread is to design a system that rewards the time and effort you spend on a weapon. Even if the mandatory mods removal frees up a slot, most players will just add more damage and we'll be back art square one: what are the point of having choices for weapons if a grand majority fall off down the line to the point where only the top five in each category are ever used because of stats. 

Lots of weapons are good with nice mechanics, but suffer due to irrelevant stats past a certain point, poor ammo economy, slow reload, or a host of other drawbacks. This system was proposed to address this without making everything Tonkor levels of broken. Small boosts here and there with 2 utility slots and an additional free slot that in reality would provide the big boost (OP wasn't edited for this, but was mentioned down the line.)

On 5/20/2016 at 9:33 PM, Jiufengbao said:

How about having it like this:

• There are multiple, repeatable, mini-objectives which when completed, give a certain amount of tuning.
  Example: 9 Headshot Kills = 300 Tuning. 15 Kills = 100 Tuning. 3 Kills in 5 seconds = 50 Tuning. Etc.
• There are certain things which, if skillfully accomplished, add modifiers to the tuning gained by doing the mini-objectives.
  Example: 70%+ Accuracy = +20% Tuning, 90%+ Accuracy = +30% Tuning, 70% Melee Kills = +30% Tuning. Etc. This is applied at the end of the game.
  
   

Well, I do have the rabbit hole in mind as far as mod slots are concerned, but that's something for another thread. I agree that everything could be cut some; I was being a bit enthusiastic. Also, the point of Tuning should be that you can invest time into making a weapon usable for high end, level 80 content. For some of the weapons out there, particularly fast firing, low ammo capacity dual pistols, you'd need at least 3-4 mods to make them reliable.

BUT. Having seen your point, how about this:

• 10 Ranks of Tuning. On the third and sixth rank, you get a utility mod slot. On the first, second, fourth, fifth, seventh, eighth, and ninth ranks, you get stat tree buffs as follows:
  
  +1% Damage or +3% Firing Rate
  +1% Critical Rate or +5% Critical Damage
  +5% Status Chance or +3% Multishot
  +5% Range or +5% Ammo
  +3% Reload Speed or +5% Magazine Size
  +5% Hoster Speed or -5% Recoil
  +.2 m Punchthrough or +5% Status Duration
  
  On the tenth rank, you get a universal slot.
   

Reduces it to 2 utility, 1 free slot, and gives a minor boost to nearly every stat type out there.

What I see is a system that really makes a weapon feel personal. I'm sure a gun fanatic can confirm that the best part of owning a weapon is learning how it works and tuning it to fit you, whether with small adjustments to the weapon itself to improve an area, or by using attachments to add something to it. 

The next thing addressed are the Draco naysayers. You only get tuning by using and mastering the weapon through mini- challenges. Any system that makes using the weapon to get a feeling for it is welcome, and further emphasises the "make it your own" mentality. Sure, the min/maxers will still find efficient builds with this system but that's honestly a small part of the playerbase. I see things that can appeal to a majority here.

[(PSN)Nyxn607]

You have my +1 sir/madam.

I for one enjoy the burston prime and it does lack in the end-game content so this system would help it shine a bit more.  I would like to think that the system you suggest would help to get rid of "Mastery Fodder" to a degree.  I would think that some players would use this system for every primary/secondary/melee weapons out there, while others will only select a few from each category, so there will still be a form of Mastery Fodder out there.  I would also like to feel like the hard work put into leveling weapons would feel more like an accomplishment rather than a chore.

[Tigercloud]

On 6/4/2016 at 4:58 AM, CrazyCortex said:

Lots of weapons are good with nice mechanics, but suffer due to irrelevant stats past a certain point, poor ammo economy, slow reload, or a host of other drawbacks. This system was proposed to address this without making everything Tonkor levels of broken. Small boosts here and there with 2 utility slots and an additional free slot that in reality would provide the big boost (OP wasn't edited for this, but was mentioned down the line.)

Your wish is my command. :)