Valkyr Revisions Feedback [Post Update 18.13]

[feralknights]

I was gone for a month or two due to RL and wanting to give the change some time to ruminate longer, come back at it with fresh eyes.

It's still bad.

More Suggestions O'Clock, and I know I'm using some things that you guys have mentioned in the past:

Flat-rate the energy drain.  Before Primed Flow my EN cap was 350-- and if you assume most players in the game are stuck at that cap too, it requires way too many mods to make Hysteria work for more than 40 seconds... which is nearly 20 seconds less than what Hysteria was as a duration ability.  If the upscale caps at 15/t base, make it cost 10/t base.  This is still the most egregious part of how badly she was nerfed.

I've read that Hysteria, like other abilities of it's type, has a fixed separate combo duration meter-- boost it.  A lot.  Valkyr's is the only "exalted weapon" type that has no ranged function and thus with enemy spawn patterns being what they are, other than in a tight, small room with lots of things spawning (i.e., Corrupted) your combo counter will never go anywhere.  Excalibur, Ivara, etc., all have ranged components to their ults, and have better odds of maintaining the damage.  It is not unheard of that you have to run through at least a few rooms with only a couple of enemies, but then the rest of your team kills them before Valkyr can get there.  And don't say "that's what her augment is for," because that's a bandaid of a fix that takes up that insanely valuable, almost inflexible, real estate space in her mod loadout; Ripline is arguably useful but Narrow Minded is almost essential and completely hamstrings the power as an option for mobility or pulling those precious mobs to you-- except for VIPs, of course, because nobody can CC them anymore.

You also can't make the argument "you're not supposed to be in it for awhile," either, because Excalibur, Ivara, and Titania can maintain their 4 longer and for less.  I'd argue Titania's is the best of the lot, given she has flight, size advantage, and greater agility in-air... AND a ranged and melee option that is quickmelee_OK.

"Drop invuln., retain life strike, install high DR."  This I agree with, it makes you work for your life strike and keep your HP up.  A friend (and I think some prior posters, sorry if I don't name you guys!) suggested taking it a step further and adding a small-scale HP drain to make it extra incentive to slaughter everything.  Nothing else really needs to change.  Hysteria's a single-target melee attack with a really good melee AOE slide in a game where the broad majority of the characters have massive AOE damage or group CC.  It needs to be an option just as good-- as enticing to use-- as other "ults," period.

[(PSN)Vampire223456789]

On October 29, 2016 at 0:51 PM, feralknights said:

I was gone for a month or two due to RL and wanting to give the change some time to ruminate longer, come back at it with fresh eyes.

It's still bad.

More Suggestions O'Clock, and I know I'm using some things that you guys have mentioned in the past:

Flat-rate the energy drain.  Before Primed Flow my EN cap was 350-- and if you assume most players in the game are stuck at that cap too, it requires way too many mods to make Hysteria work for more than 40 seconds... which is nearly 20 seconds less than what Hysteria was as a duration ability.  If the upscale caps at 15/t base, make it cost 10/t base.  This is still the most egregious part of how badly she was nerfed.

I've read that Hysteria, like other abilities of it's type, has a fixed separate combo duration meter-- boost it.  A lot.  Valkyr's is the only "exalted weapon" type that has no ranged function and thus with enemy spawn patterns being what they are, other than in a tight, small room with lots of things spawning (i.e., Corrupted) your combo counter will never go anywhere.  Excalibur, Ivara, etc., all have ranged components to their ults, and have better odds of maintaining the damage.  It is not unheard of that you have to run through at least a few rooms with only a couple of enemies, but then the rest of your team kills them before Valkyr can get there.  And don't say "that's what her augment is for," because that's a bandaid of a fix that takes up that insanely valuable, almost inflexible, real estate space in her mod loadout; Ripline is arguably useful but Narrow Minded is almost essential and completely hamstrings the power as an option for mobility or pulling those precious mobs to you-- except for VIPs, of course, because nobody can CC them anymore.

You also can't make the argument "you're not supposed to be in it for awhile," either, because Excalibur, Ivara, and Titania can maintain their 4 longer and for less.  I'd argue Titania's is the best of the lot, given she has flight, size advantage, and greater agility in-air... AND a ranged and melee option that is quickmelee_OK.

"Drop invuln., retain life strike, install high DR."  This I agree with, it makes you work for your life strike and keep your HP up.  A friend (and I think some prior posters, sorry if I don't name you guys!) suggested taking it a step further and adding a small-scale HP drain to make it extra incentive to slaughter everything.  Nothing else really needs to change.  Hysteria's a single-target melee attack with a really good melee AOE slide in a game where the broad majority of the characters have massive AOE damage or group CC.  It needs to be an option just as good-- as enticing to use-- as other "ults," period.

THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But people don't care 'bout consle.

[(PSN)Vampire223456789]

So Valkyr isn't getting fixed, even after her prime released? 

[(PSN)Vampire223456789]

Come on, can we get Valkyr the way she was when Equniox dropped?

[(XBOX)CM J0KER]

On 11/24/2016 at 5:07 PM, (PS4)Vampire223456789 said:

So Valkyr isn't getting fixed, even after her prime released? 

If they look at the feedback, they'll see some changes should be made. It's just not the highest thing because they addressed the game breaking issues hysteria presented. It's not like Valkyr is unplayable, but I do agree that some of the changes should be removed or modified.

I like where their head was with wanting to do something, but I think they messed up with a few mechanics. I've go a post in going to submit later with some things I think that could make the frame more useful while keeping hysteria in check.

Edited November 26, 2016 by (XB1)CM J0KER
Added info to the post.

[feralknights]

6 hours ago, (XB1)CM J0KER said:

If they look at the feedback, they'll see some changes should be made. It's just not the highest thing because they addressed the game breaking issues hysteria presented. It's not like Valkyr is unplayable, but I do agree that some of the changes should be removed or modified.

I like where their head was with wanting to do something, but I think they messed up with a few mechanics. I've go a post in going to submit later with some things I think that could make the frame more useful while keeping hysteria in check.

At the moment, Valkyr Prime addresses and mitigates a lot of the problem I have with her changes in the form of a significantly larger energy pool that puts her at par with some of the more power/casting-heavy characters.  I have Prime mods that also help offset the problem.  It's not perfect, but statistically I like where she is right now in relation to her powers.  I know that's a bit of a backtrack based on my prior posts, but it's the truth-- I feel more comfortable/at ease with her kit, janky as things may be with two out of four abilities with a bit more of a power pool and some very good starting polarities.

[Skollolol]

All I know is, hedgehogging around was extremely fun.

Now it isn't.

I don't like it.

[DoppelShifter]

2 hours ago, feralknights said:

At the moment, Valkyr Prime addresses and mitigates a lot of the problem I have with her changes in the form of a significantly larger energy pool that puts her at par with some of the more power/casting-heavy characters.  I have Prime mods that also help offset the problem.  It's not perfect, but statistically I like where she is right now in relation to her powers.  I know that's a bit of a backtrack based on my prior posts, but it's the truth-- I feel more comfortable/at ease with her kit, janky as things may be with two out of four abilities with a bit more of a power pool and some very good starting polarities.

Ironically, that falls into something that you mentioned yourself months ago:

 

On 10/29/2016 at 1:51 PM, feralknights said:

Before Primed Flow my EN cap was 350-- and if you assume most players in the game are stuck at that cap too, it requires way too many mods to make Hysteria work for more than 40 seconds... which is nearly 20 seconds less than what Hysteria was as a duration ability.

[...]

And don't say "that's what her augment is for," because that's a bandaid of a fix that takes up that insanely valuable, almost inflexible, real estate space in her mod loadout; 

That is, Valkyr Prime helps a lot with her issues; but that doesn't apply to Valkyr herself, so whoever isn't lucky enough to have Valkyr Prime and Primed Mods is still struggling to keep a half-decent use of Hysteria.

I'm still gonna get Valkyr Prime, and knowing that she already gets 4 V polarities from the get go (basically half the polarities I use on my own non-primed Valkyr), I know it'll be easier to use her. But we're talking about a special edition here, and her kit should be usable even in her base form, without access to expensive mods.

It's kinda similar to the problem Loki had back when he was a starter frame; nobody could mod it enough to make it usable in the first levels, so it ended up pushed to mid-to-endgame, where a better-modded Loki could actually be useful (and eventually some reworks made base Loki usable, even if still tricky).

At mastery 20+, with Valkyr Prime, with a potato, with Primed Mods, indeed, Valkyr's Hysteria seems more manageable.

...But that's an illusion. Getting down from that pedestal, Mastery under 10, normal Valkyr, no potato and small mod collection? Popping Hysteria might as well be a self-destruct button. Her problems are still there; we just climbed high enough so we specifically don't feel that as much. But other players feel.

[feralknights]

20 hours ago, DoppelShifter said:

Ironically, that falls into something that you mentioned yourself months ago:

 

That is, Valkyr Prime helps a lot with her issues; but that doesn't apply to Valkyr herself, so whoever isn't lucky enough to have Valkyr Prime and Primed Mods is still struggling to keep a half-decent use of Hysteria.

I'm still gonna get Valkyr Prime, and knowing that she already gets 4 V polarities from the get go (basically half the polarities I use on my own non-primed Valkyr), I know it'll be easier to use her. But we're talking about a special edition here, and her kit should be usable even in her base form, without access to expensive mods.

It's kinda similar to the problem Loki had back when he was a starter frame; nobody could mod it enough to make it usable in the first levels, so it ended up pushed to mid-to-endgame, where a better-modded Loki could actually be useful (and eventually some reworks made base Loki usable, even if still tricky).

At mastery 20+, with Valkyr Prime, with a potato, with Primed Mods, indeed, Valkyr's Hysteria seems more manageable.

...But that's an illusion. Getting down from that pedestal, Mastery under 10, normal Valkyr, no potato and small mod collection? Popping Hysteria might as well be a self-destruct button. Her problems are still there; we just climbed high enough so we specifically don't feel that as much. But other players feel.

 

Very good points, @DoppelShifter.  I'm MR18 with enough points to probably take the MR19 test by now, but I feel you.  I still don't use Hysteria as much as I used to and try to toggle it more often than not.  (I'd still prefer there to be a flat EN cost rather than this upscaling nonsense, too.)

[(XBOX)CM J0KER]

So...I'll just post some ideas I had for Valkyr in general:

1. Rip Line - Just adding a bit of damage to make more useful an additional mechanic. 
   1. Add Puncture damage on the initial impact.
      1. 1. Up to 200 Total (50/100/150/200)
   2. Add a Stealth finisher to rip lined enemies who are unalerted. 
      1. Pull them at Valkyr and finish with Melee Weapon.
2. War Cry - With Warcry not being recastable, the Enemy Speed decrease does nothing. Make this an all-out melee increase.
   1. Remove Enemy Speed Reduction
   2. Add Melee Damage Increase
      1. Up to 10% Total
      2. Up to 15% with Power Strength
   3. Add Melee Crit Chance and Crit Damage Increase%
      1. Up to 15% Total (6/9/12/15)
      2. Up to 25% with Power Strength
3. Paralysis
   1. No Changes
4. Hysteria - Feels like the changes made were done to please people who complained about Valkyr, but didn't really help Valkyr players, which explains the quick rework.  From what I've seen, most "vets" didn't like Valkyr's invulnerability, which is understandable. However, the changes weren't really fair to Valkyr players. 
   1. Remove increasing energy drain
   2. Remove kill bubble
   3. Remove Complete Invulnerability
      1. Make it a 99% Damage Reduction (90/93/96/99)
      2. Leave Status Immunities
   4. Keep innate Lifestrike
   5. Keep Damage Counter
   6. Make Power Efficiency be the only way to affect the energy drain per second.
   7. Make all Melee Weapon Mods work in Hysteria.
   8. Add new Mechanic on Stored Damage output
      1. Hysteria Marks enemies within 10m of Valkyr, so she must defeat all before Hysteria is released?
      2. If Valkyr takes the stored Damage, she does the following:
         1. All-out Paralysis Attack - Hits enemies with a stronger paralysis, leaving her shields drained but enemies pushed back and stunned longer.
         2. Hysteria Damages Valkyr to 1 Health and leaves shields drained.
            1. Health and Shields cannot be recovered for 5 seconds?

 

That was all, just was thinking one day and decided to write it all down here.