Older PBR'd Gold Needs Updating

[Issxi]

Recently PBR'd frames and weapons have the PERFECT texture for the gold trim. It has the dark chocolate metallic finish with the bright sharp gold on it, but some older frames and weapons are using an older and much more flat looking gold texture. Here are some examples:

Rhino Prime (Sexy AF)

Who new fat old rhinos could look so stellar? When he, Ember, Excalibur, Nyx, and Mag Prime all got their PBR treatment, you guys gave them such a sexy texture for their gold. It is so metallic and looks great in all colors and has such depth. I mean look at this big b*tch!~

His gold almost looks as if it is primarily a brown color with some gold outlining and environment mapping. This looks beautiful.

Which brings me to the topic at hand, a few older PBR Primes frames and weapons are using an older and flatter looking gold texture. For example, look at the gold on the Boltor Prime in the background of the picture above. It doesn't have that metallic depth that Rhino and others (listed above) have. Same issue on the AkBronco Prime there at the bottom of the image. They just don't have that sexy flair!

you can also see how bland the older texture is when you look at the Soma Prime. The gold on the gun just looks like it was spray painted gold. Here is the Soma Prime's default scheme compared to Rhino's gold trimming. See how flat the gold looks? It doesn't have the darker metallic sheen on ANY of the gold parts or even that greenish reflective look.

 

Other frames have this issue as well, like Nova Prime for example. In the picture below I have the Braton Prime equipped for comparison. The Braton Prime, being one of the more recent Prime weapons to receive the PBR treatments is using the most recent, sexy gold color with the metallic texturing. You can see below that compared to it, Nova Prime's gold is very bright, no metallic texture to be seen, and just all around very flat looking.

My point is there are some Prime items that have been PBR'd that need to receive the updated metallic PBR textures. These items are as follows:

Akbronco Prime

Ash Prime

Boltor Prime

Bronco Prime

Carrier Prime

Latron Prime

Nova Prime

Soma Prime

Trinity Prime

Vasto Prime

Vectis Prime

Volt Prime

Please update the PBR on these textures DE. Their first generation PBR textures break continuity with the newer, more polished and metallic ones.

[Dragazer]

Are you sure about Ash Prime though? He looks like he has the new pbr gold, but then again its hard to tell because there isn't much gold. But you can definitely tell the pbr gold on the Vectis Prime isn't like the recent pbrs.

I remember awhile back, DE mentioned that the PBR method used for Loki Prime was different from any of the previous primes with pbr treatment, so I guess any primes that received PBR before Loki Prime have the 1st generation old gold textures 

Edited August 19, 2016 by Dragazer

[Eternal]

Volt seriously needs to be redone, his helmet barely looks like it was ever pbr'd in the first place and the Volt Prime armor doesn't look that clean either

[Valiant]

Frost Prime kinda needs to be updated too as his texture/shader is different to the latest updated version, I think. Looks sort of different.

You completely missed Burston Prime too. The gold on that is terribad.

[NightmareT12]

2 hours ago, Naith said:

Frost Prime kinda needs to be updated too as his texture/shader is different to the latest updated version, I think. Looks sort of different.

You completely missed Burston Prime too. The gold on that is terribad.

It comes down to lighting on Frosts's case.

But there's a thing that I caught upon, across all that gear: The texture maps, reflection maps (IDK if it's Specular, AO, or what) is compressed. It seems lower resolution than anything else.

Nova Prime is compressed, Frost Prime's helm is compressed (I guess that's due the Sands of Inaros recompression thing they did), Latron Prime's compressed, Scindo Prime is compressed, Targis Prime is compressed...

Trinity Prime is not fully PBR'd btw. Her shared shaders with regular Trinity are still Blinn-Phonq. And I keep seeing Ash main gray areas are still not using that "leather" thing Excalibur has going on, neither...

Only Soma Prime is actually different, but I don't know if they should change it...

Also, why is this on the Bugs subforum? It should be moved to feedback!

[Valiant]

4 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

It comes down to lighting on Frosts's case.

But there's a thing that I caught upon, across all that gear: The texture maps, reflection maps (IDK if it's Specular, AO, or what) is compressed. It seems lower resolution than anything else.

Nova Prime is compressed, Frost Prime's helm is compressed (I guess that's due the Sands of Inaros recompression thing they did), Latron Prime's compressed, Scindo Prime is compressed, Targis Prime is compressed...

Trinity Prime is not fully PBR'd btw. Her shared shaders with regular Trinity are still Blinn-Phonq. And I keep seeing Ash main gray areas are still not using that "leather" thing Excalibur has going on, neither...

Only Soma Prime is actually different, but I don't know if they should change it...

Also, why is this on the Bugs subforum? It should be moved to feedback!

Lighting does depend (Phobos or Earth usually made it look like the old style gold) but in the liset it shows how different it is to the rest especially in comparison to the more recent gold.

Yeah for Trinity and Ash to have full PBR we have to wait for their vanilla versions to receive it. As for Volt P, while I like his detail, I found the vanilla Volt's shaders and textures much more appealing that the glossy shine the Prime has. It almost makes it look as if he's using textures and shaders from the old style Warframes before PBR ever existed.

Soma should be updated really as it does look rather out of place.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Naith

[NightmareT12]

10 minutes ago, Naith said:

Lighting does depend (Phobos or Earth usually made it look like the old style gold) but in the liset it shows how different it is to the rest especially in comparison to the more recent gold.

Yeah for Trinity and Ash to have full PBR we have to wait for their vanilla versions to receive it. As for Volt P, while I like his detail, I found the vanilla Volt's shaders and textures much more appealing that the glossy shine the Prime has. It almost makes it look as if he's using textures and shaders from the old style Warframes before PBR ever existed.

Soma should be updated really as it does look rather out of place.

By parts:

1) Remember the Liset does have new lighting system. Also, as far as I know all gold has the same values, sans actual yellow color. (I'll go into more detail about this later). As I noted, I've noticed some compression going on in Frosts's helmet, so it could be linked to that.

2) On Trinity yes, but on Ash... I don't really see the difference between his Prime and normal one lighting reflection. But it would make more sense if it used Excalibur Prime's one. And when Nekros Prime's gif came out, I glimpsed at his main body material, which uses one that should match Ash's body:

3) It does look out of place, but... That's a bit touchy. I guess it should match, given the actual metal material, Vauban Prime's plates, which feel similar.

Looking into the gold universal value, gimme a sec.

Edited August 21, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Valiant]

19 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

By parts:

1) Remember the Liset does have new lighting system. Also, as far as I know all gold has the same values, sans actual yellow color. (I'll go into more detail about this later). As I noted, I've noticed some compression going on in Frosts's helmet, so it could be linked to that.

2) On Trinity yes, but on Ash... I don't really see the difference between his Prime and normal one lighting reflection. But it would make more sense if it used Excalibur Prime's one. And when Nekros Prime's gif came out, I glimpsed at his main body material, which uses one that should match Ash's body:

3) It does look out of place, but... That's a bit touchy. I guess it should match, given the actual metal material, Vauban Prime's plates, which feel similar.

Looking into the gold universal value, gimme a sec.

Don't think the liset has the new lighting system yet or completely. Steve said so when we first had the new system implemented and its also confirmed by the blocky shadows we still have. Either way, yeah something is different when it comes to Frost's gold.

As for overall PBR regarding Ash (not on about gold here), there's definitely a difference, at least on his vanilla body. The Prime pieces are fine but it's evident he's using the vanilla Ash textures and shaders. Not as obvious as it is with Trinity though.

Soma - they've changed stuff without consulting the community anyways, so it shouldn't matter if some people prefer it or not, it should be brought in line like with all the rest.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Naith

[NightmareT12]

Just now, Naith said:

Don't think the liset has the new lighting system yet. Steve said so when we first had the new system implemented and its also confirmed by the blocky shadows we still have. Either way, yeah something is different when it comes to Frost's gold.

As for overall PBR regarding Ash (not on about gold here), there's definitely a difference, at least on his vanilla body. The Prime pieces are fine but it's evident he's using the vanilla Ash textures and shaders. Not as obvious as it is with Trinity though.

Soma - they've changed stuff without consulting the community anyways, so it shouldn't matter if some people prefer it or not, it should be brought in line like with all the rest.

It does. Before (above) after (below):

Spoiler

I took the screenies in preparation to compare. Kek.

 

RE: Soma -- they do, however, it's important to remind that there's the whole concept art, it's an almost 2 year old item, etc... Any change without any input is a bad thing. Also, it's mostly gold -- if we had the "real" thing, it would probably look worse than what anyone may expect.
 

I'm open to a change, though. But we'd need an accurate preview of how it would look.

 

Also (now in a general mood, not directly to Naith :P), I can't seem to find the whole gold thing, but someone (I'd swear it was Kary, but I'm not sure because I can't find the source now) replied, either to me or in a thread, that the metallic attributes for the Prime gold were all the same (like roughness). So the issue has to thereby lie in compression. In fact I opened a thread a month-ish ago about this myself...

I'll post the Nova Prime screenies here, so you can see what I mean:

Spoiler

Specially in the last pic, you can see there's the whole "absorb and reflect light" going on. But when you zoom out, you can't see it -- and there are some big blicks on that gold. That's why I'm hellbent on thinking this is due compressions.

[Valiant]

57 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

It does. Before (above) after (below):

  Hide contents

I took the screenies in preparation to compare. Kek.

 

RE: Soma -- they do, however, it's important to remind that there's the whole concept art, it's an almost 2 year old item, etc... Any change without any input is a bad thing. Also, it's mostly gold -- if we had the "real" thing, it would probably look worse than what anyone may expect.
 

I'm open to a change, though. But we'd need an accurate preview of how it would look.

 

Also (now in a general mood, not directly to Naith :P), I can't seem to find the whole gold thing, but someone (I'd swear it was Kary, but I'm not sure because I can't find the source now) replied, either to me or in a thread, that the metallic attributes for the Prime gold were all the same (like roughness). So the issue has to thereby lie in compression. In fact I opened a thread a month-ish ago about this myself...

I'll post the Nova Prime screenies here, so you can see what I mean:

  Reveal hidden contents

Specially in the last pic, you can see there's the whole "absorb and reflect light" going on. But when you zoom out, you can't see it -- and there are some big blicks on that gold. That's why I'm hellbent on thinking this is due compressions.

Ehhh, I'm still not entirely convinced it's either changed or completely changed, just due to the blocky shadows we still have all over the place. Plus it would've helped if you still had the same energy colour for both pic's just for further confirmation as the energy colour does (used to?) affect general colourization/brightness in the liset D':

Soma - time doesn't count unfortunately. They still updated Lato and Skana Prime without any consulation and alongside loads of other stuff. I think the PBR material has been updated/fixed since then too as it looked in the same realms as the Latron/Burston. Provided it's updated to the suitable level (of compression or whatever is goin' on) of newer PBR prime's I wouldn't see it as being a big deal because technically, the damn thing's meant to look like everything else. Even when I see it I don't think it's very primelike.

Thing is that also with Frost is that his gold still looks different to others (Latron/Burston) so if it is just down to compression it makes a significant impact to visuals then.

Edited August 21, 2016 by Naith

[NightmareT12]

Okay, week later, have had Nekros for a while, etc etc.

Yes, Soma Prime is flat and lacks something. Besides the fact that the gold color is too clear (thankfully the Orokin pallette is a thing), the weapon shaders is missing kind of a... Reflection? Absorption of light? You know that kind of "deep" feel the gold in the last batches of Prime PBR releases? (from Rathuum to Nekros). At first I thought it would be for worse, but I think it'd be worth to take another look at it again 100%.

[Toquette]

yeah Soma Prime lacks of reflections and too bland i think, i can't even colored it with my custom gold from shamrock palette and if i do, it will looked like brown-ish glossy instead of brown-ish shiny.

[Ichigo]

As long as it's not the buttery colour that Mag Prime used to have (and Paris Prime, unless that was also changed), then I don't really care. I don't want it to look shiny like someone poured melted butter over it. lmao