Please help me understand Frost

[DEATHLOK]

While English is my native tongue, could someone translate this post a bit? I think he knows what he's doing, but I'm not following his descriptions.

I'm slowly building my own Frost up right now. Other than a really strong snow globe around key defense points, I don't know how he fits in the game—at least how others play him.

I see him as the foundation of a strong defense. I'd like to have a build with a really strong snow globe. I'm sure that requires corrupted mods. Heck, doesn't every strong build require corrupted mods? Certainly, I don't know if he can even build a snow globe that's practical when enemies are around level 100. And aside from that specific purpose, how else is he used?

Again, I'd like a little help understanding where (PS4)Cwellann (below) is coming from. People who are really good at something do this all the time—forget how to describe it for the layman!

As an aside, does anyone know the proper syntax for quoting threads here? There isn't always a button you can just click on.

Quote

I bounce between these three pretty interchangeably, though I like the high power strength one for excavations since I'm running multiple bubbles and can't sit there and babysit one all the time.

 

Chilling Globe middle of the road build, probably the weakest of the three, but for less than 40 waves of T4D it's a nice easy compromise build

http://goo.gl/yBn4mV

 

Super sweaty tryhard freezing floor and 8 second bubble spam build

http://goo.gl/23lcgM

 

High power, low duration, mainly used for Excavations (edit - that Grineer excavation yesterday, this worked quite well)

http://warframe-builder.com/Warframes/Builder/Frost_prime/t_30_3230443000_2-5-10-4-0-5-5-6-5-6-7-5-12-3-2-19-4-10-37-8-5-55-2-5-411-1-10-613-9-5_4-5-411-8-55-6-12-8-19-7-2-6-5-5-6-11-37-7-613-9_0/en/1-0-8

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Edited June 12, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[Ninja-Gyles]

On 6/12/2016 at 6:16 PM, DEATHLOK said:

While English is my native tongue, could someone translate this post a bit? I think he knows what he's doing, but I'm not following his descriptions.

I'm slowly building my own Frost up right now. Other than a really strong snow globe around key defense points, I don't know how he fits in the game—at least how others play him.

I see him as the foundation of a strong defense. I'd like to have a build with a really strong snow globe. Other than that, I'd like to know how he's used. Certainly, I don't know if he can even build a snow globe that's practical when enemies are around level 100.

Again, I'd like a little help understanding where this guy is coming from. People who are really good at something do this all the time—forget how to describe it for the layman!

 

In short, he's best at defense but he can CC as well 

 

-The first build is for easy/short defense missions prioritizing range and efficiency while sacrificing power strength. It uses the augment mod "chilling globe" to help control enemies entering the globe.

-The second build is similar to the first but it instead focuses on Ice Wave. Only, using more duration and the "Ice wave impedance" which places ice on the floor where the ability strikes, slowing enemies.

-The third build is the "meta" Frost build, maximizing power strength to make the bubble as strong as durable as possible while maintaining maximum power efficiency.

Hope I helped you understand, if not, hopefully someone else will do a better job.

Edited June 14, 2016 by Ninja-Gyles

[Bouldershoulder]

Either this is a very old quote, or the author doesn't know that snow globe is not affected by duration mods now. Snow globe needs power strength and steel fiber to get stronger. A bit of range to be more comfortable with bombards around. Duration is needed for avalanche, the more duration - the longer enemies are frozen. If you want only CC from frost, build for duration and range. If you want armor reduction from avalanche along with its CC, build for duration and strength. Efficiency is always necessary, so keep it in mind. Also, range affects the range of explosion emitted by enemies that were killed while frozen.

Edit:

I often see frosts multicast snow globes with an intent to make them stronger, but it's a false tactics. Recasting snow globe within another instance of snow globe will only add to that last instant's health, no more. Only two instances can be summed to get a stronger globe (at least I didn't see the decrease in health drop rate after multicasting).

 

Edit2:

ok, impedance. I didn't notice that. That explains the duration mods.

Edited June 12, 2016 by Bouldershoulder

[AXCrusnik]

I'm not sure where you need help with the post TBH but I can explain his abilities.

 

I'll start with globe since it's pretty much his signature move.

First of all when you cast Globe there's a 4 second period (unaffected by mods) where any damage it takes instead adds to it's HP instead of subtracting (This is very important info, you should use this to your advantage in defenses whenever possible). If you recast globe while inside one of your previous globes then the old globes' remaining HP is added onto the new one, meaning with the invulnerability period I just mentioned, high efficiency and some time to recast (wait 4 seconds before recasting to save energy) your globe should be nigh impenetrable. Frost's armor also benefits Globe HP. You can place up to four separate globes at one time, only really useful for excavations and interceptions though.

 

Avalanche strips enemy armor so it works well with a high power high efficiency globe build against armored Corrupted or Grineer, also them being frozen for a time is nice. Not much else to say about it.

 

Freeze is just that... freezes a hit enemy for a set amount of time or some %HP threshold wherein they breakout of the CC. Also has an AoE slow and will leave patches of Ice if it hits the environment instead of an enemy.

 

Ice Wave is basically a cone of damage and slow, I find it to be much more fun and worth using with the Impedance augment on. Without it I don't use it much when I have Avalanche around.

Edited June 12, 2016 by AXCrusnik

[Arkvold]

Okay, his first build is meant for "low-end" Defense play - less than 40 waves.  It's designed to have a big globe with somewhat reduced health, focusing around 'babysitting' a globe - recasting snow globe on top of an existing snow globe to restore and strengthen it.  The big globe is necessary to repel bombard rockets without the splash damage reaching through it to hit allies or defense objectives hiding inside.  The Chilling Globe mod allows the Snow Globe to function as its own crowd control, freezing some of the enemies that try to get in under it.

The second build focuses on crowd control.  Ice Wave impedance causes Ice Wave to leave a patch of frozen ground that slows enemies that enter it.  The massive power duration is designed to let you coat huge areas in icy ground to achieve stupid levels of crowd control.  Your Snow globe is kind of a formality - to use it effectively with this build, you have to abuse a quirk of Snow Globe and other damage-absorption powers.  For a few seconds after they're cast, they're totally invulnerable, and any damage they take during the invulnerable period is translated into additional damage absorption when the invulnerable period ends.  Continually recasting snow globe keeps it invulnerable for prolonged periods of time, and ensures that even when it's not, it has immense health to eat a shot or two.

The third one is designed to just produce an extremely tough globe with a single cast.  Set it, and forget it - no need to continually recast the globe to keep it invulnerable, no need for it to eat damage while invulnerable just to have the health to survive when it's not.  It may not survive high-end content all that well, but it requires significantly less maintenance to be effective.

Now, as for Frost's role in the game...

Frost has two major roles.  Protection, and Crowd Control.  His first job is to keep a snow globe over the excavators/defense objectives, that's big enough that splash damage won't reach through it and is either tough enough (or invulnerable enough) that it won't collapse under incoming fire.  His second job is to shut down anyone who gets under that snow globe using his ability to freeze enemies solid (via Avalanche, typically, but if you can get away with just using Ice Wave or Freeze, do it to save Energy).  Beyond that, Frost typically sits his trundly trenchcoated butt on top of the objective and stays put, one eye down the sights of his gun and the other on his Snow Globe's health percentage.

In game modes other than Defense or Excavation, Frost isn't typically found.  When he is, he tends to play up the Crowd Control nature of his powers - an enemy that is frozen is an easy target and is not shooting at you or your teammates, after all.  Still, there's other Warframes that arguably do it better, so your mileage may vary.

[AXCrusnik]

29 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

I often see frosts multicast snow globes with an intent to make them stronger, but it's a false tactics. Recasting snow globe within another instance of snow globe will only add to that last instant's health, no more. Only two instances can be summed to get a stronger globe (at least I didn't see the decrease in health drop rate after multicasting).

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Snow_Globe

Snow Globe's health can stack with repeated casts until reaching a maximum combined health of 1,000,000.

500hp globe + 500hp globe = 1k hp globe. Now recast and you get 1k hp+ 500 hp = 1.5k, etc.

Edited June 12, 2016 by AXCrusnik

[Bouldershoulder]

7 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Snow_Globe

Snow Globe's health can stack with repeated casts until reaching a maximum combined health of 1,000,000.

500hp globe + 500hp globe = 1k hp globe. Now recast and you get 1k hp+ 500 hp = 1.5k, etc.

Ok, perhaps. But how such things are found? Someone goes to simulacrum, casts a hunnerd of globes and counts how many shots it can withstand? Or is it mining?

Edited June 12, 2016 by Bouldershoulder

[AXCrusnik]

2 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Ok, perhaps. But how such things are found? Someone goes to simulacrum, casts a hunnerd of globes and counts how many shots it can withstand?

Maybe. I don't do these tests, but it sounds more accurate than just going  "hmm doesn't seem stronger to me" after recasting.

I imagine someone figured out an enemy's DPS or damage per shot  at x level and used that to test.

Edited June 12, 2016 by AXCrusnik

[(XBOX)Twinna25]

50 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Either this is a very old quote, or the author doesn't know that snow globe is not affected by duration mods now. Snow globe needs power strength and steel fiber to get stronger. A bit of range to be more comfortable with bombards around. Duration is needed for avalanche, the more duration - the longer enemies are frozen. If you want only CC from frost, build for duration and range. If you want armor reduction from avalanche along with its CC, build for duration and strength. Efficiency is always necessary, so keep it in mind. Also, range affects the range of explosion emitted by enemies that were killed while frozen.

Edit:

I often see frosts multicast snow globes with an intent to make them stronger, but it's a false tactics. Recasting snow globe within another instance of snow globe will only add to that last instant's health, no more. Only two instances can be summed to get a stronger globe (at least I didn't see the decrease in health drop rate after multicasting).

 

Edit2:

ok, impedance. I didn't notice that. That explains the duration mods.

Incorrect. Snow globes add their health together to a cap of 100k health overall. You can test it if you like with Kela, as her rockets usually take half the health off my snowglobe, but less when i double cast.

[Kiiyor]

20 minutes ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Edit:

I often see frosts multicast snow globes with an intent to make them stronger, but it's a false tactics. Recasting snow globe within another instance of snow globe will only add to that last instant's health, no more. Only two instances can be summed to get a stronger globe (at least I didn't see the decrease in health drop rate after multicasting).

 

Hmmm, I thought it did stack - my own testing seemed to confirm it, as I run a low strength high efficiency build for my frost (as at higher levels the globe is pretty much one shot by everything no matter how high your power strength is, and the 4 sec of invulnerability is what keeps everyone alive). In Triton runs, If I stack two globes, they pop pretty easy. If I drain the tank casting globes, it appears to be much, much stronger.

The Wiki also states that the power stacks:

Quote

Snow Globes created inside existing globes do not count toward the maximum number of instances, and Snow Globe's health can stack with repeated casts until reaching a maximum combined health of 1,000,000.

There was also some science carried out on Frost by /u/The_Discussion that described the globe stacking mechanic.

Is anyone else able to confirm?

Also, OP, you don't need tonnes of corrupted mods to get a decent Frost. If you're building for globes, the vanilla mods like Stretch, Intensify and Streamline will be fine if you aren't trying to marathon survival missions, along with Steel Fiber (and maybe even Armored Agility if you keep your eye out for nightmare alerts) for globe health. Build for Strength, a little range and efficiency and you'll be fine. Keep your eye out for alerts to get your hands on some aura mods - Corrosive Projection and Energy Siphon in particular are handy, and maybe start looking for keyshare teams on derelict runs (but make sure you can bring your own keys to the party) to start getting those corrupted mods. Start doing faction missions to get your hands on frost's ability mods, as both Frost Wave Impedance and Chilling Globe are handy. Focus wise, I prefer Zenurik for Frost, as the energy gained from Energy Overflow is freaking awesome and lets you toss around those extra abilities and add more dimensions to your gameplay.

If you're branching out of Globe territory, you probably will need corrupted mods though. The Ice Wave impedance build (my favourite!) is fantastic, but needs a decent range, duration and efficiency to pull off. Also, If you're stacking power strength for globes you should be aware that Frost also makes a decent debuff machine, as his 4 strips armour and is affected by power strength.

 

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

How is a strength build a Meta build?

The Meta build for high level Defense is nothing but Max range & Max efficiency, paired with balanced strength and duration.

 

The Snow globe scales from recieved damage in its invulnerability Phase so just recasting the globe evry couple seconds and therefore stacking its health from the scaling damage throughout the active Game most definitly gives the best possible results.

Explosives like corpus grenades and grineer Rockets tend to Punch trough the globe, what kills everything in a regular sized globe, thus Max range.

The strength and duration is just a measure to keep avalance effective.

The best Defensive build should therefore include Stretch, overextendet (corrupted), transient fortitude (corrupted), (Prime) continiuty, streamline and fleeting expertise r3-4 (corrupted). Everything else is optional.

The strength is probably optional as well as 4xCP is a Option in hosted games. If this constelation is met, go for more duration.

Edited June 13, 2016 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[DEATHLOK]

12 hours ago, Bouldershoulder said:

Either this is a very old quote, or

I realize now that it is a very old, archived post.

Power Strength affects the strength of the globe? Range affects its size? I'm guessing that Duration does nothing for a snow globe, but I assume it's useful for the Crowd Control powers? Is efficiency vital to Frost?

I've been wondering if a large snow globe is generally what you want, because of Bombards and grenades, but I could be overlooking something important. Am I?

Edited June 13, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[Bouldershoulder]

Yes, frost needs duration only for CC. Efficiency is always important.