Adding PvP

[DreamHound]

Yes, I know this has been talked about for a while now and the answer is no for now or so, but think about it doesn't have to be a generic death match it can be be a different kind of pvp then killing it could be like alien vs predator or alien colonies type of PvP where you survive and get hunted by alien predators and you have to get to the extraction point before getting killed. Seriously PvP like that or some sort of type of pvp can be added it will makes tons of money and add even more fun to the game.

[Demaphoon]

I dunno that brings about alot of A******s due to the fact people rage so hard and even more so hackers start showing up.

[McGuffin]

I applaud the dead horse floggery going on here, but you kind of shot yourself in the foot there. You've already mentioned that the answer for now is no. And priority-wise, ask yourself this: Would you rather have 1 ship environment over and over and over again even with PVP, or have a more diverse set of levels, events and possibly enemies instead. There will be competitive meta-gaming coming to Warframe, and sooner rather than later but PVP is really not the core focus right now.

Not to mention the balance issues if we took 'frames as they are right now and chucked in PVP.

[Tykero]

PvP in a Peer2Peer hosted game is a really bad idea these days.

Edit: Not saying I wouldn't enjoy seeing it in Warframe at some point.

Edited January 25, 2013 by Tykero

[10twenty4]

There really shouldn't be any kind of direct PvP. Consider how overpowered something like a Loki's Radial Disarm or invisibility would be, or how useless the decoy would be (I'm using loki as an example, since it's the only frame I currently have).

There could be a "meta" PvP, though. Kind of like leaderboards, but probably something else, though.

[DeadlyShadow]

Not this again please......

[DeftGrinders]

But how would you make PvP a viable free to play business model and keep it competitive?

[Hammercannon]

you have the full fledged meta game, and a couple of pvp modes, set in the game envrioments (smaller obviously, and slightly modified) be the pvp team death match, death match, "alien vs predator", or what ever else you can think of, it dosnt have to be kept competitive, just balanced, and to balance it you have different PvE and PvP stats for mods/weapons/warframe abilitys.

it dosnt have to be constantly expanded, or have leader boards, it dosnt have to happen tomorrow either, it could be 4 months out. its just another avenue for people to enjoy the game, it also gives people who have everything something else to do.

to those who keep brining up overpowered PvP abilitys like disarm, invicibility, and mags crush/volts ult... make disarm have a duration, make invicibility have a lower duration, mags crush do less dmg, and volts ult do less dmg/ smaller.

[McGuffin]

The point that I, DeadlyShadow, 10twenty4 and a few other people make isn't that PVP is an unwelcome addition. Its simply that this topic has been absolutely done to death. The Devs know. Trust me, they know. If / when it comes up in Design Council I'll be voting for it, but not at the expense of core gameplay mechanics and other higher priority improvements and fixes.

[Blatantfool]

I'm wholly against PvP at this point and time.

The abilities on most Warframes are ridiculously fun because of how much power they tend to afford you. They would have to massively nerf a lot of abilities to ever have a chance at a fair and level PvP.

Otherwise all the PvP would consist of is a bunch of people running around trying to find the best situations to one shot kill other players.

PvP would be lame because of the imbalance and PvE would become a little less awesome if they actually nerfbat everything causing a problem.

When you make the jump into competitive gameplay modes you HAVE to be willing to make the changes to make the mode work properly or the whole thing becomes a waste of time. Warframe just isn't a game that is suited to make the jump - not because it is horribly broken - but because part of the fun is being a super strong Tenno running amok and dicing baddies. That'd have to change if they went into PvP.

[johncage]

ahh the endless want for more modes of e-penis comparison.

pvp would be boring in a game like this.

[Cyler]

This has been discussed often enough, and the dev's already stated that they aren't interested in PvP.

[DeftGrinders]

Anyone should be able to tell from the ground up that PvP for Warframe, because of the mods and ninja abilities designed for PvE that it really wouldn't fit much for PvP. If abilities were cut down and mods as well, there isn't much money to invest in anything else and a viable PvP wouldn't bring them any money.

Still, I would appreciate if there could be a PvP mode for Warframe 2, meaning that eachninja ability would have to be designed in that regard as well.

[benkyou]

I would personally love to see PvP implemented. The game has elements of an endearing FPS; easy learning curve, smooth controls. Like Counter Strike and Quake. I think the biggest problem with current gen FPS is that it tries too hard to be "realistic", with rugged controls and visuals.

Even 'Hawken', another free to play game I had high hopes for, let me down in terms of gameplay(Though it DEFINIATELY didn't let me down in the aethetics department). It's too rugged, can't be played competitively. But this game play smooth.

I'm not saying it could be played competitively(But who knows), It'd just be fun to shoot at other players!

The abilities would have to be re adjusted though.

Edited January 25, 2013 by benkyou

[Katakuna]

Not this again please......

[Blatantfool]

I would personally love to see PvP implemented. The game has elements of an endearing FPS; easy learning curve, smooth controls. Like Counter Strike and Quake. I think the biggest problem with current gen FPS is that it tries too hard to be "realistic", with rugged controls and visuals.

Even 'Hawken', another free to play game I had high hopes for, let me down in terms of gameplay(Though it DEFINIATELY didn't let me down in the aethetics department). It's too rugged, can't be played competitively. But this game play smooth.

I'm not saying it could be played competitively(But who knows), It'd just be fun to shoot at other players!

The abilities would have to be re adjusted though.

This game plays nothing like Counterstrike or Quake. Have you even played CounterStrike or Quake?

And the sole reason PvP would be garbage in this game is BECAUSE of the drastic balancing changes it'd absolutely require to work. You'd have to take every single frame and tone down their overall power level. You'd have to put a maximum cap on every single type of mod.

It'd take the feeling of being this strong, silent killing machine jumping around a ship and taking out anyone stupid enough to stand around and turn it into a limp $&*^ed version of itself where things like dealing 1200 damage with Excalibur's dash has been docked down to 100 so that players in PvP aren't getting one shot.

They'd have to castrate the Rhino and Loki. The former actually becomes invincible. The latter becomes invisible and does bonus damage. So those two frames become half of what they were.

Talk about a stupid idea.

[benkyou]

This game plays nothing like Counterstrike or Quake. Have you even played CounterStrike or Quake?

And the sole reason PvP would be garbage in this game is BECAUSE of the drastic balancing changes it'd absolutely require to work. You'd have to take every single frame and tone down their overall power level. You'd have to put a maximum cap on every single type of mod.

It'd take the feeling of being this strong, silent killing machine jumping around a ship and taking out anyone stupid enough to stand around and turn it into a limp $&*^ed version of itself where things like dealing 1200 damage with Excalibur's dash has been docked down to 100 so that players in PvP aren't getting one shot.

They'd have to castrate the Rhino and Loki. The former actually becomes invincible. The latter becomes invisible and does bonus damage. So those two frames become half of what they were.

Talk about a stupid idea.

Yes, I have. And the former competitively, lol.

It's like CS and Quake in the sense that it's easy to learn and the gameplay is smooth.

And like I said, I don't expect it to play on a competitive level, it would just be fun. And I realize the amount of tweaking needed.

It. Would. Be. fun. For a lot of us.

Talk about a stupid reply.

Edited January 25, 2013 by benkyou

[McGuffin]

Yes, I have. And the former competitively, lol.

It's like CS and Quake in the sense that it's easy to learn and the gameplay is smooth.

And like I said, I don't expect it to play on a competitive level, it would just be fun. And I realized the amount of tweaking needed.

It. Would. Be. fun. For a lot of us.

Talk about a stupid reply.

Hmm...I'd caution against speaking for 'a lot of us'. That invites replies from 'a lot of us' hehe. :P

Honestly the only way a PVP system would work in this game without messing around what what makes it fun in PVE is if it uses generic 'frames designed solely for PVP. That takes resources and time away from the core offering.

Maybe you're right and it will. Be. Fun. For a lot of us. On paper its a great idea.

But slowing down the dev cycle of the game for something that isn't crucial is not a good situation. For. ALL of us.

Edited January 25, 2013 by McGuffin

[benkyou]

Hmm...I'd caution against speaking for 'a lot of us'. That invites replies from 'a lot of us' hehe. :P

Honestly the only way a PVP system would work in this game without messing around what what makes it fun in PVE is if it uses generic 'frames designed solely for PVP. That takes resources and time away from the core offering.

Maybe you're right and it will. Be. Fun. For a lot of us. On paper its a great idea.

But slowing down the dev cycle of the game for something that isn't crucial is not a good situation. For. ALL of us.

Fair. But I never said anything about making it priority. Just an idea for the future.

[UkyoSonoda]

Thing about adding PvP into a game like this. How could you add it without breaking the core PvE gameplay because with the PvE mechanics as they are currently PvP would be completely broken and imbalanced. If you want to add PvP to the game fine but do so without screwing with the PvE mechanics that form the core of the gameplay.

The reason for saying this is because of what I feel would be an inevitability that will result should they add PvP into the game which is non stop floods of complaints over PvP imbalance, nerf this frame, nerf this gun, this skill is OP, etc topics on the forum board. Doesn't even matter if it is actually broken or not those types of topic will flood the boards. The cause being the portion of the PvP community that can't handle being outplayed or losing also tend to be the most vocal. Which leads game devs to think the majority of their user base feels the same and then they begin screwing with the game balance whether it was needed or not.

[DeftGrinders]

To have PvP would mean to remove all the ninja abilities that make each character unique to have something competitively viable. Then eveyrone has to have the same stats for each weapon, so that the experience becomes fair.

And then, it becomes a properly balanced PvP, however there is nothing in there to make money out of, giving to gamers an entirely free game mode. Digital Extremes needs to make money otherwise they cannot make games anymore.

But maybe you are willing to pay for such PvP? 5,10, or $20? How much would you pay for such game mode?

[Cyler]

If you want PvP, play another game, Warframe isn't meant to be PvP, it has been built on PvE gameplay and will continue its way. At least that's what I hope after I read the dev's comments to this.

[S1eepy]

just my two cents on PvP vs PvE ballance: yeah, you do tend to nead two different sets of skills. most of the concern tends to be in the realm of one-shot kills. you could certainly one shot someone with a beefed up rifle headshot. or with the hek, and maybe the strun. or the bronco. potentially the fragor(not finished yet) just about everything is lethal aside from the starting weapons.

personally: with the intracite movement and camera style: i think it would make a great transition to a pvp game type.

but then again: quake 3 was my favorite shooter. i love fast paced agile fights where taking one hit can potentially spell death.

as for working it in; have a few nodes on the star map contain modes something like this:

capture and hold: would make for a fun mode. maybe keep ai mobs in the map.

a race mode: a sprint down the gauntlet of mobs; players can't use abilities; first to the end wins. maybe deal no damage to each other. possibly stick everyone with a bolto as their only weapon? hard to hit with; sacrifice speed for a chance to interrupt another player.

another possibility: two players spawn in one mission on opposite teams: they have to compete for the objective.

yes, some of the abilities are strong, deadly strong. however: your evasive abilities are stronger.

i had a really nice run on hades earlier: i soloed it in melee range, without breaking to regen, ran out of ammo, and had to melee the boss, without my shields going down once. if you can figure out how to move properly: you won't take a single hit. you just dance around and everywhere you are not is filled with bullets. it's pretty wonderful.

with most hitscan weapons: they should be too weak to one shot people.

they're safe hits. your chipping away at them. where as something like overload is concerned: you're taking a big risk in a game where you could be one shot. you give up control of your movement and are vulnerable for a little bit before the attack starts. someone could pop you quickly and negate the whole attack. the lights also don't shock right away. there would be time to get out of the way; unless someone caught you in a corner. which then becomes just something that a volt will try to do. corners become dangerous parts of the map as a design convention. his power can also be curbed with light fixture placment.

as for loki: you can still see him while he's invis. disarm is no big deal if you have a good melee weapon and are fast. ash, rhino, excalibur, volt, ember, mag, they can all do things to mess with you still. they don't necessarily have to use a gun. i don't think it's that powerful in a pvp context. trinity is the one who gets hurt the most by it. which is perfect: because it's the healer.

i think the classes are pretty well balanced for a pvp setting. maybe eliminate the stat gap a bit.

possible solution: make all weapons and suits level 15 and supercharged. this makes the players have a real selection unlike a filled item tree. items don't level up. however, you can use mods you've found from pve in your pvp loadout. make energy limited. you start with 25 and it only drops from players on death. this means if you want to use an overload: you'll need three kills first. it keeps it from getting spammy. no artifacts or consumables.

rhino could ne hit with a charge, or stomp combo you.

excalibur would get you with a charge

volt with overload or spamming first skill.

unsure about ember, but there's always guns.

same for trinity.

i'm sure ash could, and mag, but i'm unfamiliar with the targeting on their big damage skills.

loki would also kills with weapons.

[Zakalwe]

I wish we could have a discussion abot the potential for pvp without people stating the obvious "devs are focusing on pve" over and over.

It doesnt' harm anyone, and some people like to simply disucss the potential for it.

[Ced23Ric]

Fair enough. Have at it. If you enjoy discussing a pointless eventuality that is quickly exhausted and entirely fictional, by all means.