Major Changes to playstyle in u19

[DJkillz]

after the changes to prime drop system, the new relics system is pretty sweet and it makes sense. somewhat. but what happened to endless missions??? u can still do defence/survival/intercept for as long as u like but u get nothing out of it. no reward. no reason/ no drive to do endless missions. ever since these changes i have not seen a single post bout LF or Hosting a endless mission for just "fun" and just staying in the mission for a long time. using skills and all that. in short.. i believe endless is dead. that reflects on few things:

no more endless.. best thing outside of sortie is like lvl 50. u really wont be going above that. there cant be ppl complaining about mod space and not being able to fit any preference mods over dmg. cause now u can. remove dmg.. put as many personal preference mods as u like over dmg.

this also becomes a issues with loadouts tho somewhat. having builds for personal preference and builds for more dmg for sorties maybe. honestly loadouts have always been an issue.. every time u change ur frame.. u would usually, atleast i do, change the school i am gonna use. constantly changing schools with frames is a hascle cause they r both in different places. and selecting a build. supposing i changed to equinox frame. and i am gonna use my slash proc build which is on my Slot B. i need to first change my frame.. then go to upgrade tab. then select my build. that's not it.. now i need to change my school. im set to vazirian.. thats not good. passive deactivates while using maim.. now i need to go all the way back. and change to madurai lens so i can get additional dmg on slash. ( not important crap idk y i wrote it)  all these options to change lens and configs should be just offered as soon u change ur frame i think. it would be much easier if i was given a popup to select from Slot A,B,C config as soon as i change frame..or some changes in that sense so its easier to choose a build accordingly.

its really hard for players to rank up stuff. ofc there was cheap common way farm is intercept leech. but now, getting experience anywhere else is a lot harder. i personally didnt do draco farm thing to rank up my stuff. i just did it in random mission, thats how it actually should be. DE was talking about how they not gonna change draco mission they were gonna do something with the spawns or xp or something to fix the issue with xp farming strategy in general.. but.. they didnt. leechers will find a way to leech someone regardless. what DE needs to do is change the xp distribution system... clearly u can tell its messed up. dmg dealer gets nothing while the rest of the squad gets a fair share of xp for all their gear. (dont give me statistical crap. look at what actually happens and how ppl abuse it instead). in short. xp distribution is purely based on leeching.. and ppl know it. and they abuse it. simple as that. if i would actually benefit better from my own kills, xp farming after endless is pretty much dead wont really be as big of an issue... or give endless missions importance again.

as a end game player.. i found myself doing endless missions most of the time. and now.. thats really dead... what do rest of u players who r pretty much done everything game has to offer play? i really find this to be a massive change to the focus on warframe playstyle and how have u ppl actually adopted to this change in missions?

Edited July 21, 2016 by DJkillz
reducing excessive junk i wrote

[thecolin-]

I think that was kind of the point. DE doesn't like endless. 

[SilvaDreams]

7 minutes ago, thecolin- said:

I think that was kind of the point. DE doesn't like endless. 

Yup, it made things too simple and fast.

Plus people always were whining about scaling enemies so now it's virtually a non-issue now.

[SurrealEdge]

I mostly do fissure hunting and rank stuff up in high level survival. Mostly just by myself though, it get's boring and tedious quick.

They did do changes to Draco, but people still manage to abuse it, that's why the node is a low level survival instead of the near endgame, high affinity, and 1 button mashing is gone.

[Czygen]

It still exists, just not that common to see people asking for endless now.

I'm one of those guys who hosts void survival and defense for the sake of it lol.

You can always run them with friends and clannies though.

 

[DeadScream]

It has to be a long way until we reach what DE have in mind for their finished game, and difficulty scaling is the biggest issue. I'm sad for players who love doing endless stuff, that they don't get rewarded for that anymore, but I think it's a necessary sacrifice if we want to make all missions enjoyable, and then all the game content challenging or at least, funny.

[Jangkrik]

Endless is simply too boring for farming. The idea is good, but the fact that you have to wait to get the prime parts is not.

I like the current Void better where you can get Prime pars anywhere since you're not forced to wait around 5 mins for each part (it still takes time, but you can zip through it far faster than before if you're efficient). Plus rotation is gone, so you don't have to wait for rotation B/C (which are usually far longer than doing the current void in non-endless missions) to roll for a specific drop table.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jangkrik

[SilvaDreams]

4 minutes ago, DeadScream said:

It has to be a long way until we reach what DE have in mind for their finished game, and difficulty scaling is the biggest issue. I'm sad for players who love doing endless stuff, that they don't get rewarded for that anymore, but I think it's a necessary sacrifice if we want to make all missions enjoyable, and then all the game content challenging or at least, funny.

Most survival runners did it for gloating status anyways... Or just extreme cheapskates who would go solo mode and prowl and covert lethality everything.

[felixsylvaris]

Fissures not being endless has a benefit for marchmaking.

Now there could be a matchmaking for "Void".

Also Void has limited lenght to 10min. Not everyone can stay in mission for 20 or 1h.

If someone likes endless missions Orokin Derelict Survival is good since it  can give many relics.

The system is generally better for casual player. Just need polishing.

Also regular Void could drop traces from mobs (that would be a good chanege). Since right now we need to farm relics many relics to many relics just to get traces.

Edited July 21, 2016 by felixsylvaris

[blackheartstar_pc]

27 minutes ago, DJkillz said:

as a end game player.. i found myself doing endless missions most of the time. and now.. thats really dead... what do rest of u players who r pretty much done everything game has to offer play? i really find this to be a massive change to the focus on warframe playstyle and how have u ppl actually adopted to this change in missions?

Stopped playing altogether as all other mission types are too short to be enjoyable and now just keep up with the forum hoping to see this issue addressed. If endless isn't put back in before Nekros Primes prime access runs out not only will I obviously not buy it but I will uninstall the game. Others games exist that do reward players for their time. I have faith DE will fix this before then.

[DJkillz]

oh ya game is far from what can be considered finished game.. and i gotta disagree with u on the scaling.. this section of the video explains exactly how i feel bout it..

 to make all missions enjoyable. yes.. but now with relic system.. exterminate and capture or whatever mission is fastest gets more importance. other than that.. but yea u r still right tho. 

 

@Jangkrik that was not the point -.- the point is it gives endless missions 0 value. i used to like playing fast quick missions as well. but then i shifted towards endless a lot. now endless is dead lol. end game player man. i got all primes. pretty much everything in game in general.. there is no point for such farming for endgame players. but the new system is not bad i am not saying anything bout that.it just shifted the focus to 1 sided only.

[SilvaDreams]

8 minutes ago, blackheartstar_pc said:

Stopped playing altogether as all other mission types are too short to be enjoyable and now just keep up with the forum hoping to see this issue addressed. If endless isn't put back in before Nekros Primes prime access runs out not only will I obviously not buy it but I will uninstall the game. Others games exist that do reward players for their time. I have faith DE will fix this before then.

You can still play endless missions, in fact ODS is one of the best ways (to me) for getting relics.

Sure you don't get primes anymore but to say you get no rewards is utterly stupid.

[TheScytale]

The main thing it shows imo is that most players that stayed 1h+ did not do it for "fun", but for the rewards. I agree with you on the affinity sharing system. They said they're gonna make using weapons better than keeping them holstered, but they didn't. But I also disagree with the preference builds because as you said, there are still sorties that don't let you do that, but also some weapons are outrageously weak to the point where there's no other choice but to build for max damage if you want to kill anything beyond lvl 25 without suffering. The scaling is (almost) unnoticeable now, but we still need balance between weapons.

[Jangkrik]

28 minutes ago, DJkillz said:

oh ya game is far from what can be considered finished game.. and i gotta disagree with u on the scaling.. this section of the video explains exactly how i feel bout it..

 to make all missions enjoyable. yes.. but now with relic system.. exterminate and capture or whatever mission is fastest gets more importance. other than that.. but yea u r still right tho. 

 

@Jangkrik that was not the point -.- the point is it gives endless missions 0 value. i used to like playing fast quick missions as well. but then i shifted towards endless a lot. now endless is dead lol. end game player man. i got all primes. pretty much everything in game in general.. there is no point for such farming for endgame players. but the new system is not bad i am not saying anything bout that.it just shifted the focus to 1 sided only.

I agree that they should make endless missions more useful since they're basically useless now, but I don't want them to put more the best rewards there with useless dilutions since they're the main reason we had Void fatigue. I think upping the rewards would be the best solution for now. I personally would like to have something like this to prevent invalidating non endless missions for farming:

- Rotation A rewards: 3x Rare cores, 1 rare resource (NO CONTROL MODULES), random rare mods (no low credit or junk cores), relics.

- Rotation B rewards: 15k credits, 3x rare cores, 5x rare cores, 1x grade 2 Syndicate Medallion, Forma BP, pack of uncommon resources (600 Plastids, 100 Oxium, 1k Polymer, etc), parts for landing crafts/old sortie weapons (rare drops), relics.

- Rotation C rewards: Forma BP (remove it from fissures entirely), built Forma (ultra rare), 20k credits, XP bundle (something like 20k affinity), 3x rare cores, 5x rare cores, weapon specific mods like Covert Lethality, Adhesive Blast, Thunderbolt, etc.

In the system that I hope for, we still have undesirable dilutions in the table, but they're not useless (hey, something as useless as a Forma BP/Thunderbolt is still far better than 3k credits). Then make normal missions (except spy) drop relics too to prevent ultra crazy relics grinding since the endless drop tables are going to be diluted.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Jangkrik

[JohnKable]

Probably they removed the best rewards in endless missions because so far it was too easy to abuse of those.
Really to easy to exploit powers and just put time but no effort. Now effort its still zero but doesnt require too much time.

When the effort/profit will be balanced for endless mission probably we will see rewards in there again, but alot of stuff needs to be fixed in order to achieve that.

I really liked the void tileset, and doing endless in it, But really so far was just a matter of wasting alot of time on those to get rewarded (and actually even before that i thought the time/reward ratio was still bad but it was fine because it had just time and no effort)

Hopefully there's plenty of loot coming that could fit into there, just not now.
Yeh im thinking on vaulted stuff, umbras and so on. Its clear we wont ever have credits and core cave in endless because thats what sorties are supposed to be now

[DEATHLOK]

DE Steve whined about people playing Draco too much, which he replaced by a new Draco called Void Fissures. Now everyone is playing Void Fissure missions all day long, which require less skill and less teamwork than Draco ever did. You couldn't power level on Draco unless you had four players willing to stick to a plan. Try doing that in a public match. You don't need teamwork when everyone bum rushes the Fissure to Wack-A-Mole those stunned enemies popping out—one guy can do it by himself.

The last time I saw a game turn against the community this quickly was Tribes 2, when the pro gamer crowd was given design control.

Edited July 21, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[Tizodd]

Endless missions were the multiplayer draw for me.  In endless missions you actually spoke with group members and discussed builds, what frame to bring, useless-but-fun non-game banter, etc.  Now every mission is a race to the end with everyone trying to get top numbers on the mission summary screen (I hate the mission summary screen btw...I feel it does nothing positive for group cohesion or co-op play.  It's much more of a pvp bragging rights tool).

Since the update, I log in for sorties and log off.  It's a shame because I really want to play Warframe, but it just feels much more like a single-player game for me now.  And frankly...if I want to play a single-player game, I have other games that do single-player better.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Tizodd
fixed typo: undless -> endless

[Bacms]

They mentioned on the last prime time they are currently addressing the problems with the endless mission. They presumably have a few people at DE that loved to do endless missions so they now it is a problem. 

I also honestly don't understand why so many people are against endless missions and just prefer to rush through content as for me personally it gets boring. The question is why can't we have both? We used to have both why can't we do it anymore? Why is it problem if someone enjoys something you don't? 

I honestly think they were challenging and I always liked to see my progression through it. I still remember how I use to struggle to stay 20min in Apollodorus and how before the update I could already stay 40+ min on T4. There was a sense of an achievement and knowing I could get some prime parts to build something I didn't have or sell them for plat to get catalyst and reactors to improve my frames to stay longer was a cycle I enjoyed. I understand however some people just want a casual game and don't want to stay 60min in a defence mission just to get a chance of 3 difficult to get prime parts. So in my opinion they needed to tweak the system, abolish rotation A and scale faster or make a better drop system for rotation C. 

With the current system they could simply let void endless missions drop void traces so you could farm there for them and the longer you would stay the more you would get. The problem is off course how to make it equally as efficient as the current system  

[SilvaDreams]

2 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

DE Steve whined about people playing Draco too much, which he replaced by a new Draco called Void Fissures. Now everyone is playing Void Fissure missions all day long, which require less skill and less teamwork than Draco ever did. You couldn't power level on Draco unless you had four players willing to stick to a plan. Try doing that in a public match. You don't need teamwork when everyone bum rushes the Fissure to Wack-A-Mole those stunned enemies popping out—one guy can do it by himself.

The last time I saw a game turn against the community this quickly was Tribes 2, when the pro gamer crowd was given design control.

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Oh gods my sides hurt! I could carry a team of 3 MR1 nooblets with my Oberon through  four waves and that is if people stayed all four because gear maxed out.

[DEATHLOK]

Because Void Fissure missions are all about skillz? I'm sure your little Oberon never ran out of energy, because you are just that mighty.

Edited July 21, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[SilvaDreams]

Just now, DEATHLOK said:

Because Void Fissure missions are all about skillz? I'm sure your little Oberon never ran out of energy, because you are just that mighty.

Not often no. Occasionally when there are like 2-3 energy leeches coming to get a hug but a nice dose of radiation fixes that.

[Kuestenjung]

I really don´t get all these complaining about endless Void missions now.

I am playing endless missions on the starchart since almost 3 years because I like them. Void is just the same now. You like it, play it, don´t like it don´t play it.

 

[DJkillz]

1 hour ago, SilvaDreams said:

idk how i have messed up this quote thing. plz ignore that.. anyway

draco was nvr teamwork.. that team setup is pure reliancy. dude.. spaming 1 button on each frame is definately NOT teamwork.. teamwork is interception each others moves and working according is teamwork. oh look i am pressing 1 button and imma call it teamwork. to start talking bout teamwork... look at hijack missions. look at raids. specific the doors and stepping on pads. that shows teamwork. not spamming 1 ability combo ppl in game have been running as dependents under the name of teamwork which is actually fully leech.  name 1 person who actually goes thru void orb things to provide energy to non prime frames?? that would be teamwork.

i used to do exterminate void mission with equinox and a friend as rhino prime. slash proc instant kill combo. (zoom thru map like ember on low rank mission) . and he used to provide me with energy by passing thru those orbs when im there as well because my ability would drain too much energy. that is true team work. not the phony oh look 1 button spam teamwork WOOOTTT. 

and someone above said endless missions and rewards... i dont really care much bout rewards. but its not only bout me ofc. endless mission is the only place for what ppl refer to "end game" content. and like another person mentioned above. its  the only place where ppl actually talk to each other about warframe and random stuff and not rush to the end of the mission as fast as possible. and endless is a place for actually using some skills. where stuff is legitly starts to get difficult. its prolly the only place for "fun" in warframe in my openion. and if there is no reward system behind it really to motivate ppl to do it. how is that gonna work? ofc it was good for rewards.. it was amazing for rewards. and y shouldnt it be? ppl r genuinly putting it S#&$ loads more effort than other missions.

Edited July 21, 2016 by DJkillz

[SilvaDreams]

1 minute ago, Kuestenjung said:

I really don´t get all these complaining about endless Void missions now.

I am playing endless missions on the starchart since almost 3 years because I like them. Void is just the same now. You like it, play it, don´t like it don´t play it.

 

Because all the cheese is gone.

They can't take one key and an ivara and play forever.

[SilvaDreams]

3 minutes ago, DJkillz said:

draco was nvr teamwork.. that team setup is pure reliancy. dude.. spaming 1 button on each frame is definately NOT teamwork.. teamwork is interception each others moves and working according is teamwork. oh look i am pressing 1 button and imma call it teamwork. to start talking bout teamwork... look at hijack missions. look at raids.. specific the doors and stepping on pads. that shows teamwork. not spamming 1 ability combo ppl in game have been running as dependents under the name of teamwork which is actually fully leech. 

and someone above said endless missions and rewards... i dont really care much bout rewards. but its not only bout me ofc. endless mission is the only place for what ppl refer to "end game" content. and like another person mentioned above. its  the only place where ppl actually talk to each other about warframe and random stuff and not rush to the end of the mission as fast as possible. and endless is a place for actually using some skills. where stuff is legitly starts to get difficult. its prolly the only place for "fun" in warframe in my openion. and if there is no reward system behind it really to motivate ppl to do it. how is that gonna work? ofc it was good for rewards.. it was amazing for rewards. and y shouldnt it be? ppl r genuinly putting it S#&$ loads more effort than other missions.

Seriously, the most teamwork you might get was one RJ Excal, an EV trinity and 2 leeches... Proceed with RJ spam.