Can Conclave Get Some More Balancing ASAP Please

[Master-Nachash]

Warframe abilities are SO broken. Conclave is hardly about skill, it's just "spam ability to get the edge on your opponent and shoot at point blank range."

From excals who just spam their slash dash or their exalted blade, to hydroids who just knock you down constantly or hide in puddle mode, to ashes who spam their AIMBOT shurikens or their 3 so they're invisible, to rhino, well, being rhino. It's ridiculous.

Can we at least get abilities disabled or something until there's proper balance and it's about skill rather than ability spamming.

Also, can we get some kind of punishments for people who leave mid-game because they're not pwning as much as they'd like. Almost every single match my squad leaves and I'm last man-standing against like 2-3 guys because they're getting rekt and then of course, I have to deal with 2-3 guys constantly sticking together spamming abilities to which there is nothing I can do about.

ALSO, can we get some kind of ranking system because I'm pretty tired of being put in squads where I'm the only experienced one there and I'm pitted against people who obviously play conclave on the daily and have for weeks. Where my squad wanders around aimlessly (pun intended), and the other squad clusters together tightly so once again there's nothing I can do.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[Harloq]

Hard to have balance; with different stats for each warframe.

I'm one that think conclave should not have energy and warframe should have a limited number of "upgrades". Maybe every warframe with the same stats as well.

How do you balance a Valkyr against a Banshee?

[Heckzu]

There are a few crutch abilities, but many are hardly useful in PvP so I won't consider them broken unless you mean to say they're unusable. 

A ranking system would be nice, but not enough active players play for proper ranked matchmaking. Add that to the fact we don't have servers for PvP yet.

But I can tell you're probably inexperienced with conclave, your post sounds like just another rant about how hard PvP is for PvE players or how you're unwilling to cope with playing with people better than you.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Heckzu

[PinkTentacles]

I imagine the main draw for Warframe PvP is to use your powers on people in PvP.  

[Heckzu]

38 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

ALSO, can we get some kind of ranking system because I'm pretty tired of being put in squads where I'm the only experienced one there and I'm pitted against people who obviously play conclave on the daily and have for weeks. Where my squad wanders around aimlessly (pun intended), and the other squad clusters together tightly so once again there's nothing I can do.

They'll never see the surprise invisible Loki using radial disarm on them coming! And amongst their confusion of why their gun is missing, and why half their health is gone, they'll also be dying one after another as you shiv them from behind. :^)

Edited July 28, 2016 by Heckzu

[Vyrn]

This belongs in CC feedback, bruh.

Also, yeah, power spam has been a bit much since the passive energy regen was tripled with Lunaro's update for no reason. There has been no word from DE about it, though.

Abilities wouldn't be so bad if they couldn't be used in pretty much every fight.

[Master-Nachash]

18 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

There are a few crutch abilities, but many are hardly useful in PvP so I won't consider them broken unless you mean to say they're unusable. 

A ranking system would be nice, but not enough active players play for proper ranked matchmaking. Add that to the fact we don't have servers for PvP yet.

But I can tell you're probably inexperienced with conclave, your post sounds like just another rant about how hard PvP is for PvE players or how you're unwilling to cope with playing with people better than you.

Many are hardly useful I agree, but then many are overpowered and too "spammable." There should at least be cooldowns or something or higher energy cost. We're supposed to be highly skilled space ninjas able to scale any obstacle and fight with martial prowess. You'd think that's what conclave would be about. Our skill with weapons, not our ability to spam Warframe specific abilities to the point where it's annoying.

Yeah I know, personally I think Conclave is just another thing that DE has rushed for release.

Nah, not inexperienced at all. I don't expect you to believe me but in most matches I'm one of the top players, barely any deaths, I have considerably more kills than most other players, usually if I'm not top of scoreboard I'm second unless I've joined a match close to the end. It's not inexperience that's caused me to say what I'm saying. It's frustration with a game mode that is all over the place.

PVP isn't hard. Not for me anyway. Yeah it's a challenge, but it's not hard. This thread isn't about difficulty. It's about being set up to lose from the very beginning in conclave due to certain warframes being used, due to having newbies on my squad, while being up against experienced players, or being the sole member of my squad due to people leaving abruptly (which happens almost every single match when people realise the match will be a challenge), pitted up against 2-3-4 guys who are ability spammers, who I can't do anything to because on top of spamming abilities they cluster together so it's not a fair fight.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[Master-Nachash]

16 minutes ago, PinkTentacles said:

I imagine the main draw for Warframe PvP is to use your powers on people in PvP.  

"We're supposed to be highly skilled space ninjas able to scale any obstacle and fight with martial prowess. You'd think that's what conclave would be about. Our skill with weapons, not our ability to spam Warframe specific abilities to the point where it's annoying."

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[Master-Nachash]

9 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

They'll never see the surprise Loki using radial disarm on them coming! And amongst their confusion of why their gun is missing, and why half their health is gone, they'll also be dying one after another as you shiv them from behind. :^)

Hahaha I laughed my head off and actually said "really DE" out loud when I came across my first invis Loki on conclave!

[Master-Nachash]

One example is that earlier today I joined a match and was stuck with a newbie excalibur, who was MR2 I believe. And I was pitted up against three rhino primes who were clustering together using iron skin / rhino charge / stomp so you couldn't get close to them at all. The Excalibur was feeding them despite me telling him to stay with me and support me like they were with each other. I only managed to get a few kills in when one of the Rhinos left the group and started wandering around on his own. He was actually terrible at 1v1, he just used iron skin and stood there shooting at me while I stayed mobile shooting at him and tried to charge me a few times. Was a high ranker as well. Can't remember what MR he was exactly but he was pretty high.

Anyway my point is that being able to spam abilities and gain such an advantage over other players by using specific Warframes and clustering together how those guys were ruins the experience for other players who actually want to play conclave how it's supposed to be played. Y'know, high speed skill-based combat rather than "I'm gonna camp near energy / ammo drops with the rest of my squad so enemy players can't touch me" and / or "I'm gonna spam abilities whenever I see an enemy cos easy win." It also removes incentive for them to play properly, obviously, in a way that's engaging, that causes them to actually "git gud" by way of honing their reflexes and aim.

I mean, doesn't Teshin even say that's what conclave is about? So we can hone our skills to prepare for a great threat in the future? Something along those lines anyway.

Essentially, in a nutshell. The current state of conclave is making players pick cheap tricks over skill. Which is ruining the state of play for others.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[Heckzu]

9 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

One example is that earlier today I joined a match and was stuck with a newbie excalibur, who was MR2 I believe. And I was pitted up against three rhino primes who were clustering together using iron skin / rhino charge / stomp so you couldn't get close to them at all. The Excalibur was feeding them despite me telling him to stay with me and support me like they were with each other. I only managed to get a few kills in when one of the Rhinos left the group and started wandering around on his own. He was actually terrible at 1v1, he just used iron skin and stood there shooting at me while I stayed mobile shooting at him and tried to charge me a few times. Was a high ranker as well. Can't remember what MR he was exactly but he was pretty high.

Anyway my point is that being able to spam abilities and gain such an advantage over other players by using specific Warframes and clustering together how those guys were ruins the experience for other players who actually want to play conclave how it's supposed to be played. Y'know, high speed skill-based combat rather than "I'm gonna camp near energy / ammo drops with the rest of my squad so enemy players can't touch me" and / or "I'm gonna spam abilities whenever I see an enemy cos easy win." It also removes incentive for them to play properly, obviously, in a way that's engaging, that causes them to actually "git gud" by way of honing their reflexes and aim.

I mean, doesn't Teshin even say that's what conclave is about? So we can hone our skills to prepare for a great threat in the future? Something along those lines anyway.

The matchmaking is broken, that I agree with, but in conclave, everything is for a niche and every action has some sort of counter. In your situation, you were just unfortunate to have a newbie teammate. But also, you're trying to make it sound as though low mobility play styles, i.e. camping or grouping as tank frames, has no viable counter when I can think of multiple ways to score an easy kill streak against such tactics.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Heckzu

[armedpoop]

Yeah lets punish people for leaving matches in an already unpopulated game mode! 

 

Thats a very bad idea, the fact that its unpopulated is also the main reason why we shouldnt have a "ranking" either. The conclave rank should be good enough for now.

[Master-Nachash]

5 minutes ago, Heckzu said:

The matchmaking is broken, that I agree with, but in conclave, everything is for a niche and every action has some sort of counter. In your situation, you were just unfortunate to have a newbie teammate. But also, you're trying to make it sound as though low mobility play styles, i.e. camping or grouping as tank frames, has no viable counter when I can think of multiple ways to score an easy kill streak against such tactics.

So can I. But the majority of time, due to the numerous issues I've highlighted and many more unmentioned issues. You cannot use those counters. So that's pretty much a moot point.

[Master-Nachash]

3 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

Yeah lets punish people for leaving matches in an already unpopulated game mode! 

 

Thats a very bad idea, the fact that its unpopulated is also the main reason why we shouldnt have a "ranking" either. The conclave rank should be good enough for now.

Well something needs to be done because people are consistently leaving matches when they feel they're gonna have a challenge on their hands. Most players only stay if they're winning or if they know they're up against noobs. And that ruins the experience for other players. Because they end up not being able to play at all sometimes.

My suggestion was just that, a suggestion. I'm just saying that something needs to be done and it's another issue in the long line of issues with conclave that needs to be addressed.

[Master-Nachash]

I believe if conclave was "fairer", as in, if it was a lot more difficult to get an edge on your enemies via cheap tricks and specific loadouts, it'd become a lot more populated because it'd be a lot more skill-based, therefore enjoyable.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[armedpoop]

2 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

Well something needs to be done because people are consistently leaving matches when they feel they're gonna have a challenge on their hands. Most players only stay if they're winning or if they know they're up against noobs. And that ruins the experience for other players. Because they end up not being able to play at all sometimes.

My suggestion was just that, a suggestion. I'm just saying that something needs to be done and it's another issue in the long line of issues with conclave that needs to be addressed.

And im saying that I disagree with your suggestion. Save punishing leavers for if we ever get competitive warframe pvp. Like serious competitive warframe pvp. Theres no reason whatsoever to punish leavers in matches where it doesnt matter. They already miss out on all their conclave standing from that match for leaving anyway. 

[Jakorak]

welcome to PVP shoved down the throat of a PVE game: a regular video game industry S#&$storm

[KirukaChan]

I wish there were more game modes that were about more than just kill count. TF2 does it pretty well. And with the insane amount of maneuverability Warframes have, there's a lot of possibilities.

[Master-Nachash]

Just did a few more conclave matches.

First match - 1v1, me (Excalibur) against a constantly invisible Loki. He didn't get any kills but neither did I because I couldn't see him at all lol. So I left because the match was going nowhere.

Second match - 1v2, me (Excalibur) against an ash and a volt that were always together, the ash was invisible and spamming shuriken and whenever I got the jump on him he went invisible. volt was lagging and the lag was actually assisting him. All I could do was run so I left.

Third match - Decided to switch from team conclave to free-for-all. Ended up playing against a mag and a zephyr, had a decent match, all of us were going for kills with skill and tactics, not just ability spam or cheap tricks. No lag or anything. both guys got 3-4 kills, I won with 10-10-3.

First two examples are what I'm talking about. I join, and it's clear to me for one reason or another that I'm not gonna stand a chance, that I won't be playing, I'll just be feeding. Or that I can't touch the enemy because they have an ability that makes them basically untouchable. So there's no point in me playing. I only ever leave though if I'm on my own.

Edited July 28, 2016 by Master-Nachash

[Master-Nachash]

24 minutes ago, armedpoop said:

And im saying that I disagree with your suggestion. Save punishing leavers for if we ever get competitive warframe pvp. Like serious competitive warframe pvp. Theres no reason whatsoever to punish leavers in matches where it doesnt matter. They already miss out on all their conclave standing from that match for leaving anyway. 

I agree with that, but I still think something should be done because it's not fair on other players if people rage quit or leave because their squad isn't doing as well as they'd like, or because they're not up against noobs.

[Nazrethim]

24 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

Just did a few more conclave matches.

First match - 1v1, me (Excalibur) against a constantly invisible Loki. He didn't get any kills but neither did I because I couldn't see him at all lol. So I left because the match was going nowhere.

Second match - 1v2, me (Excalibur) against an ash and a volt that were always together, the ash was invisible and spamming shuriken and whenever I got the jump on him he went invisible. volt was lagging and the lag was actually assisting him. All I could do was run so I left.

Third match - Decided to switch from team conclave to free-for-all. Ended up playing against a mag and a zephyr, had a decent match, all of us were going for kills with skill and tactics, not just ability spam or cheap tricks. No lag or anything. both guys got 3-4 kills, I won with 10-10-3.

1- Complain about people who leave the match. Leaves the match because "was going nowhere".

2- Ash abilities? pfff JAJAJAJJAA other than Shuriken which is "good" his other 3 abilities are marginally useful AT BEST and totally pointless 90% of the time. Plus, you LEFT yet ANOTHTER match you couldn't win! Preach by example not by words.

3- I wonder what you consider "cheap tricks".

2 hours ago, Master-Nachash said:

Warframe abilities are SO broken. Conclave is hardly about skill, it's just "spam ability to get the edge on your opponent and shoot at point blank range."

From excals who just spam their slash dash or their exalted blade, to hydroids who just knock you down constantly or hide in puddle mode, to ashes who spam their AIMBOT shurikens or their 3 so they're invisible, to rhino, well, being rhino. It's ridiculous.

Can we at least get abilities disabled or something until there's proper balance and it's about skill rather than ability spamming.

Also, can we get some kind of punishments for people who leave mid-game because they're not pwning as much as they'd like. Almost every single match my squad leaves and I'm last man-standing against like 2-3 guys because they're getting rekt and then of course, I have to deal with 2-3 guys constantly sticking together spamming abilities to which there is nothing I can do about.

ALSO, can we get some kind of ranking system because I'm pretty tired of being put in squads where I'm the only experienced one there and I'm pitted against people who obviously play conclave on the daily and have for weeks. Where my squad wanders around aimlessly (pun intended), and the other squad clusters together tightly so once again there's nothing I can do.

-Yeah, there are borken abilities, but they are few and aren't spammable due to energy limitation.

-Slash Dash has a fairly short range, Exalted Blade has short range AND requires 100 energy to cast. Hydroid only knocks you down with the puddle if you attempt to jump out of it and he can't move, so it's only a matter of rolling or walking out of it and wait for him to run out of energy. Ash's shuriken will hit the ceiling/floor/walls/obstacles 50% of the time, hit a random player at full health 40% and hit the target you are actually aiming around 10% of the time, Smoke Screen is as sh*tty as invisibility gets: it breaks if you collect pickups, take damage, attack (doesn't matter if the attack lands or not), lasts 8s and costs 35 energy, has a cast animation but not stagger, the augment is pointblank and sometimes it doesn't work (or doesn't matter since whoever you blind will just kill you or break your invi by blindly spraying shots or swinging the melee weapon). Teleport is 100% useless since EVER and Bladestorm deals sh*tty damage, it's pointblank and drains energy even if you don't conect AND can be interrupted by killing or staggering Ash mid bladestorm because he isn't inmune to anything while at it. Can't defend Rhino though.

-Can you adapt to Warframe instead of trying to make it CoD?

-Considering YOU leave matches that don't go your way do you really want punishment for leavers? BTW Team Deatmatch is about TEAMWORK, so it makes sense two players would stick together and support each other.

-Ranking systems work when you have a huge playerbase, Conclave playerbase is enough to find matches, but not big enough to merit a ranking system yet. Also, I've been able to rout 3vMe with a bit of effort so there IS always something you can do, it's all about skill.

55 minutes ago, Jakorak said:

welcome to PVP shoved down the throat of a PVE game: a regular video game industry S#&$storm

PvP is good for any game. Warframe PvP is actually very good, we may not be a huge number of players, but the ones dedicated to it provide a lot of useful feedback and we help players with useful tips and treat each other with respect (it gets more hilarious because we are 100% respectful in the battlefield even with people we bash our heads with on the forums). Remember that initially the high mobility playstyle came from the PvP crowd who realised it was better than walking everywhere while the PvE crowd was spamming Radial Javelin on Draco. Guess which playstyle DE decided to develop?

57 minutes ago, KirukaChan said:

I wish there were more game modes that were about more than just kill count. TF2 does it pretty well. And with the insane amount of maneuverability Warframes have, there's a lot of possibilities.

In TF2 you also find the following situation:

The other team:

Charles Bronson

Bronson Charles

Charlie Bronsie

Charles, Son of Bron

Bron, Son of Charles

Your team:

You

Yugioh5613

John12345

TheBONGinator

game4fun

And you KNOW you are doomed,   that doesn't happen in WF PvP :3

Jokes aside, yeah, more modes would be nice: Interception, AW racing, AW FFA/TD, etc.

[(PSN)bddacres]

2 hours ago, Master-Nachash said:

Warframe abilities are SO broken. Conclave is hardly about skill, it's just "spam ability to get the edge on your opponent and shoot at point blank range."

From excals who just spam their slash dash or their exalted blade, to hydroids who just knock you down constantly or hide in puddle mode, to ashes who spam their AIMBOT shurikens or their 3 so they're invisible, to rhino, well, being rhino. It's ridiculous.

Can we at least get abilities disabled or something until there's proper balance and it's about skill rather than ability spamming.

Also, can we get some kind of punishments for people who leave mid-game because they're not pwning as much as they'd like. Almost every single match my squad leaves and I'm last man-standing against like 2-3 guys because they're getting rekt and then of course, I have to deal with 2-3 guys constantly sticking together spamming abilities to which there is nothing I can do about.

ALSO, can we get some kind of ranking system because I'm pretty tired of being put in squads where I'm the only experienced one there and I'm pitted against people who obviously play conclave on the daily and have for weeks. Where my squad wanders around aimlessly (pun intended), and the other squad clusters together tightly so once again there's nothing I can do.

The problem isnt ability spamming to be honest because the low amounts of energy you have and the high energy drain means an ultimate ability is a gurented kill (only 1 kill unless your banshee). Also its quite easy to avoid this attacks with even mediocre skill. The only main Problem is the need for stamina in conclave so players cant spam parkour and make the game more a clusterfk

[Master-Nachash]

27 minutes ago, (PS4)bddacres said:

The problem isnt ability spamming to be honest because the low amounts of energy you have and the high energy drain means an ultimate ability is a gurented kill (only 1 kill unless your banshee). Also its quite easy to avoid this attacks with even mediocre skill. The only main Problem is the need for stamina in conclave so players cant spam parkour and make the game more a clusterfk

It is because it's EASY to get energy if you're mobile enough. Also you have squads that actively camp energy drop points so they never run out of energy and can spam certain abilities that give them a major advantage.

[(PSN)bddacres]

2 minutes ago, Master-Nachash said:

It is because it's EASY to get energy if you're mobile enough. Also you have squads that actively camp energy drop points so they never run out of energy and can spam certain abilities that give them a major advantage.

Camping a energy spot is actually a disadvantage

[DRAGONIQUE]

Hi i Can't use My Power 4 exalted blade With Exclaibur in conclave... What is Wrong Here !! Why  i Can't use My Power 4 exalted blade